What Happens When You Can't Connect/DC/LAG/Whatever

SonofAnarchy - Dreamweaver · January 2014

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

*snip*

your posts are always spot on and knowledgeable but for some reason you always seem like ur applying for a job with pwi! forums might not be the best place to apply unfortunately as no one of importance comes here. b:chuckle

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple · January 2014

Hunkary - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Ok, I got 2 question about this.
Let's say I knew, or now know, 90% of the stuff you said in the thread.

Sometimes when I log in PWI, all servers are fine to me. When I go to the server list, all servers in West Coast, the one in Europe, and all in East Coast are fine but Dreamweaver (the server that I play on).
If you didn't get, in Server List all of above have ~100-150 Ping and are marked as green. But Dreamweaver happens to be marked in red and have 3000 Ping (the max that it can reach in the server list, if I'm not wrong).

I wanted to know where, and what the problem is here in this situation?
______

Also, sometimes when I restart my modem, or even my router, the connection gets better on Dreamweaver. Sometimes it doesn't. And sometimes, more servers start lagging, and some that weren't lagging start to.

I always asked myself what's actually going on when I do that. When I reset them I'm changing the "doors" to acess/reach PWI's door? (Sorry for the freaking bad terms, I'm not too good at that as you can see xD).

Oh, I have a router to enable Wi-Fi in my house.
So at moment, it's like this: Modem > Router > Computer.

Thanks in advance and sorry for the long wall text b:surrender

It's all about DNS, and the 'path' that is developed.
Take Dreamweaver for example. When you connect to the server, ping request, ect., your PC/Client is "speaking" to pwieast2.perfectworld.com. Unfortunately, the reality isn't that simple.

In actuality, that address can route to multiple IP addresses that they have at PWE for the servers. Here's just a few.
29000:74.201.183.27
29000:74.201.183.24
29000:74.201.183.25
29000:74.201.183.26

In actuality, there are about 20 or so more IP addresses that the DNS servers can possibly route to. Each one is a different physical port connected to a load balancer that connects to the server. As one port gets overloaded, it will re-direct the traffic to another one that isn't as heavily loaded, pretty much constantly changing the DNS entry for the web address for pwieast2.perfectworld.com.
Because of this, you could end up with three servers in the same building, but one is returning a high ping, because you've happened to grab a path to a port with a heavy load when the initial request was sent.

And that's the short answer for the top section of your question. b:victory

Now for the part your modem/router plays.
When you power it on, it connects to a certain DNS server, usually it's one provided by your ISP, or you can choose to connect to a DNS server of your choice by manually configuring your modem/router. The DNS service basically has a stored set of "paths" to all of the web addresses. When you go to connect to a web address, your PC basically asks the DNS server for the path that it currently has stored. Kind of like ordrering a TripTic from AAA, or asking your GPS for a route to a destination. The DNS servers periodically update the information to find the faster routes, but it doesn't do it frequently because it's going through millions of web addresses that it keeps track of.

When you reboot your modem, it grabs a fresh DNS list from the DNS servers. Some paths may have been updated now, and will get better results, but not always. Your PC will store DNS entries that you've used recently, and sometimes it can help to additionally clear your local DNS cache.

If I'm experiencing some really bad pings, and I can see the router causing the issue (usually it's in Colorado for me), then I will shut my modem off for two minutes so that it will reset the port at my ISP, I'll clear the local DNS path on my PC by running "ipconfig /flushdns" from an elevated command prompt, and then I will power my modem back up. About 80% of the time, this will have a nice improvement on the connection. Sometimes it goes through this set of routers in Euless TX though that aren't much better than the set in Colorado.

Hope that helps.b:pleased

Hunkary - Dreamweaver · January 2014

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

It's all about DNS, and the 'path' that is developed.
Take Dreamweaver for example. When you connect to the server, ping request, ect., your PC/Client is "speaking" to pwieast2.perfectworld.com. Unfortunately, the reality isn't that simple.

In actuality, that address can route to multiple IP addresses that they have at PWE for the servers. Here's just a few.
29000:74.201.183.27
29000:74.201.183.24
29000:74.201.183.25
29000:74.201.183.26

In actuality, there are about 20 or so more IP addresses that the DNS servers can possibly route to. Each one is a different physical port connected to a load balancer that connects to the server. As one port gets overloaded, it will re-direct the traffic to another one that isn't as heavily loaded, pretty much constantly changing the DNS entry for the web address for pwieast2.perfectworld.com.
Because of this, you could end up with three servers in the same building, but one is returning a high ping, because you've happened to grab a path to a port with a heavy load when the initial request was sent.

And that's the short answer for the top section of your question. b:victory

Now for the part your modem/router plays.
When you power it on, it connects to a certain DNS server, usually it's one provided by your ISP, or you can choose to connect to a DNS server of your choice by manually configuring your modem/router. The DNS service basically has a stored set of "paths" to all of the web addresses. When you go to connect to a web address, your PC basically asks the DNS server for the path that it currently has stored. Kind of like ordrering a TripTic from AAA, or asking your GPS for a route to a destination. The DNS servers periodically update the information to find the faster routes, but it doesn't do it frequently because it's going through millions of web addresses that it keeps track of.

When you reboot your modem, it grabs a fresh DNS list from the DNS servers. Some paths may have been updated now, and will get better results, but not always. Your PC will store DNS entries that you've used recently, and sometimes it can help to additionally clear your local DNS cache.

If I'm experiencing some really bad pings, and I can see the router causing the issue (usually it's in Colorado for me), then I will shut my modem off for two minutes so that it will reset the port at my ISP, I'll clear the local DNS path on my PC by running "ipconfig /flushdns" from an elevated command prompt, and then I will power my modem back up. About 80% of the time, this will have a nice improvement on the connection. Sometimes it goes through this set of routers in Euless TX though that aren't much better than the set in Colorado.

Hope that helps.b:pleased

Yeah, I think I got it now!
Whenever I experience lag again I'll do what you said and hope for the best b:chuckle

Thank you very much man and sorry for my noob questions

Evryn - Morai · January 2014

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

When you power it on, it connects to a certain DNS server, usually it's one provided by your ISP, or you can choose to connect to a DNS server of your choice by manually configuring your modem/router. The DNS service basically has a stored set of "paths" to all of the web addresses. When you go to connect to a web address, your PC basically asks the DNS server for the path that it currently has stored. Kind of like ordrering a TripTic from AAA, or asking your GPS for a route to a destination. The DNS servers periodically update the information to find the faster routes, but it doesn't do it frequently because it's going through millions of web addresses that it keeps track of.

Euh. No.
DNS has -nothing- to do with how packets reach a destination. DNS translates a name to a network address, nothing more (IE telling your computer that when you want to go to www.google.com your browser needs to connect to IP 173.194.41.114 to get to the webpage). DNS -can- help in loadbalancing by reporting different addresses for the same name to different clients, but it is not intended for that purpose.

Finding the fastest path to from origin to destination, and correcting paths when a node falls off the grid, is handled by RIP (router information protocol), and generally end-users on a private connection have no influence on that whatsoever.

DNS servers usually cache requests made to them, typically for three days. So if you ask your ISP's DNS server to find where google.com is on the internet, it'll remember the response from the server which is in control of that domain for a few days. So any change in the address would have a delay of several days.

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple · February 2014

Came across an interesting article that goes into some detail on some of the most common issues.

http://lifehacker.com/why-is-my-internet-suddenly-so-slow-1525144792

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · February 2014

is it something to do with the recent weather or something?? Cause there seems to be quite a few pple that are have abnormal ping issues, and not just 'oh its spike lag', but more "im so laggy i cant login" "it started a bit after the content update" "i have 20k-60k ping (true story)"

Usually id blow these off as 'yeah your net sucks balls', but it seems to be happening on a wider range than normal >.> So far, PWI/PWE doesnt seem to be the immidiate problem and more of the connection pathway. Any interesting patterns so far in terms of where in the routes pple are having the most lost packets?
f:scared

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple · February 2014

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

is it something to do with the recent weather or something?? Cause there seems to be quite a few pple that are have abnormal ping issues, and not just 'oh its spike lag', but more "im so laggy i cant login" "it started a bit after the content update" "i have 20k-60k ping (true story)"

Usually id blow these off as 'yeah your net sucks balls', but it seems to be happening on a wider range than normal >.> So far, PWI/PWE doesnt seem to be the immidiate problem and more of the connection pathway. Any interesting patterns so far in terms of where in the routes pple are having the most lost packets?
f:scared

The current winter conditions from the jet stream have caused a lot of issues across the US this year. Downed power lines and overloaded hubs are fairly common and will cause increased latency, dropped, packets and complete disconnects.

Usually though, when I see someone that has a ping that high, it's because they have Norton360 or ZoneAlarm.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · February 2014

said pple i think have windows defender.

they can log into other servers and play graphics heavy games like planet****2 fine too

i think the servers are getting sentient and weeding us out....

opkossy · February 2014

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

i think the servers are getting sentient and weeding us out....

Considering the crashes are almost always on the weekends...

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · February 2014

sylen is it any way possible that the ARC could get in the way of dns flushing? ;o in terms of stored stuff

Father_gold - Sanctuary · February 2014

ok so i guess i have to put my thinking cap on and attempt to make some sense, but i have to say i do this because i'm tweaking hard and need my pwi fix...b:sad

ok so i ran 2 tracert's to sanct tonight, I turned my router off for half an hour and ran a flushdns before turning my router back on. what i'm noticing is kind of a verification of what others who are having this problem seem to be experiencing. It was mentioned that some of the problem can be attributed to Verizon or Verizon customers seem to be having this problem more than any other BUT the point at which the hops encounter a massive stop seems to originate in Georgia. I will add that it was stated before that there is some free internet offer currently being offered in that area which could attribute to this problem. find below the tracert's left one is first:

further more if you lookup the servers for hops 10-12, the first 2 are Verizon servers but the third are owned by some ambiguous entity (new boss from next expansion maybe?).

http://www.whoisstuff.net/ip-lookup.php?domain=152.63.49.190
http://www.ip-adress.com/whois/152.63.49.190

http://www.whoisstuff.net/ip-lookup.php?domain=157.130.195.90
http://www.ip-adress.com/whois/157.130.195.90

http://www.whoisstuff.net/ip-lookup.php?domain=66.151.144.80
http://www.ip-adress.com/whois/66.151.144.80

http://www.whoisstuff.net/ip-lookup.php?domain=66.151.144.20
http://www.ip-adress.com/whois/66.151.144.20

I dont have time atm but I plan to make a call to verizon business services and try to contact somebody (not really hoping for much though)

was any of this useful to anyone more knowledgeable than I? i find that my hops are hopping off the deep end at the same exact point regardless of what I do at home.

hopefully more players see this and can verify with a tracert whether they are having the same problem at the same domain of IP addresses, that being within the following ranges:

Internap Network Services Corporation PNAP-06-2001 (NET-66-150-0-0-1) 66.150.0.0 - 66.151.255.255
Internap Network Services, PNAP-SJE PNAP-SJE-INAP-BB-01 (NET-66-151-144-0-1) 66.151.144.0 - 66.151.145.255

Lolgasmic - Raging Tide · February 2014

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

It's all about DNS, and the 'path' that is developed.
Take Dreamweaver for example. When you connect to the server, ping request, ect., your PC/Client is "speaking" to pwieast2.perfectworld.com. Unfortunately, the reality isn't that simple.

In actuality, that address can route to multiple IP addresses that they have at PWE for the servers. Here's just a few.
29000:74.201.183.27
29000:74.201.183.24
29000:74.201.183.25
29000:74.201.183.26

In actuality, there are about 20 or so more IP addresses that the DNS servers can possibly route to. Each one is a different physical port connected to a load balancer that connects to the server. As one port gets overloaded, it will re-direct the traffic to another one that isn't as heavily loaded, pretty much constantly changing the DNS entry for the web address for pwieast2.perfectworld.com.
Because of this, you could end up with three servers in the same building, but one is returning a high ping, because you've happened to grab a path to a port with a heavy load when the initial request was sent.

And that's the short answer for the top section of your question. b:victory

f:shock Oh my god, I understood the Sylen!!! He DOES speak English!

Or maybe it's on my end cause my brain lags? Need to get a new BSP... f:ouch

P.S. This is the first time I've bothered to read this thread and the subsequent posts and pages; I must say, there are lot of people wasting their time coming to a forum when they are illiterate.

Cawcawwww - Archosaur · February 2014

Sooo I had some horrible latency in delta at W7 today and eventually dc'd. I don't normally have issues with lag or latency.

Traceroute below - Problem appears to start with qwest a major internet backbone data service provider, then persists with alter.net which is MCI aka verizon business (a highly regarded internet service provider), and finally continues with pnap.net which is probably the hosting farm the game servers are running on.

I don't know the business side of a hosting farm / collocation site, but they may be purchasing services from qwest and or MCI, and PWI or whoever is responsible for this game we play is definitely paying the server farm.

Anyone has further insight on this routing I would love to learn more about it. Also I have no idea what the host pwigc2 is I coppied it from the OP, but it did appear to have some serious latency issues routing to my house around the same time archo server was kicking me out of delta b:cry

Tracing route to pwigc2.perfectworld.com [66.151.133.71]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms dslrouter [192.168.x.x]
2 29 ms 28 ms 30 ms 72.234.40.2
3 * 32 ms 32 ms 67.129.94.230
4 35 ms 35 ms 35 ms hnl-edge-04.inet.qwest.net [67.129.94.229]
5 * 471 ms 477 ms jfk-brdr-04.inet.qwest.net [67.14.5.98]
6 * 504 ms * 63-235-40-54.dia.static.qwest.net [63.235.40.54]
7 * * * Request timed out.
8 * 587 ms 575 ms TenGigE0-4-0-0.GW6.SJC7.ALTER.NET [152.63.49.18]
9 575 ms * 568 ms internap-sjc-gw.customer.alter.net [157.130.195.90]
10 580 ms 577 ms 575 ms border2.t7-1-bbnet1.sje004.pnap.net [66.151.144.20]
11 566 ms 569 ms 571 ms perfectworld-10.border2.sje004.pnap.net [64.95.143.190]
12 559 ms * 569 ms 66.151.133.71

Trace complete.

Cawcawwww - Archosaur · February 2014

Bump

There's gotta be some techie lurking the forums that would know what roles qwest and MCI are playing in our connections and if our servers are hosted in a decent collocation facility . . .

Father_gold - Sanctuary · February 2014

personally, while it is not PWI's responsibility to manage routing, it is in their best fiscal interest to make inquiries as to why their **CUSTOMERS** are being prevented from consuming their product...

but then again, they just dont care in the first place.

i wonder if there is a store out in the world that wouldn't care that the city tore up the streets in a 3-block radius and blocked them off for 6 months..... i mean how do they do business? it's not their responsibility but a business SHOULD be concerned that their method of selling their product is being compromised in a rather permanent fashion (seeing as the routing issue is not going to get better by itself)

one would think a company that pays to host a service would be concerned that their delivery method is compromised.

Father_gold - Sanctuary · February 2014

any clue why [66.151.133.71] is the IP to pwigc2.perfectworld.com?

What Happens When You Can't Connect/DC/LAG/Whatever

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