Sage VS Demon Psychic - If They Went Head to Head

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Devilskarma - Raging Tide
Devilskarma - Raging Tide Posts: 172 Arc User
edited February 2014 in Psychic
So, many threads here show that the majority of people see Sage as a better cultivation path choice than Demon for Psychics overall. Others see it as a matter of personal playstyle. But -

Given a 1v1 battle of Sage VS Demon for Psychics, who has the advantage? b:puzzled

Sage? b:cute Demon? b:sin
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by Devilskarma - Raging Tide on

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  • Euzebe - Sanctuary
    Euzebe - Sanctuary Posts: 230 Arc User
    edited February 2014
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    Sage has the advantage with the extra purify and the longer soulburn. In an endgame stalemate, Demon probably has the better burst dmg chances with tide spirit combo or a triple crit with Landslide.

    In personal experience as a demon, Tide Spirit + Will Surge are fairly effective should I want to take down an enemy Psychic quickly.
  • Longknife - Harshlands
    Longknife - Harshlands Posts: 4,843 Arc User
    edited February 2014
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    Sage hands down.

    May sound dumb cause these constantly get underestimated, but you put the DoTs on a demon, they can't do **** all about it. The purify wins the fight.
    I <3 AGOREY
  • Devilskarma - Raging Tide
    Devilskarma - Raging Tide Posts: 172 Arc User
    edited February 2014
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    Lol... thats it? 2 people on this subject given all the past debates of which path for a psy is better or not? It is not like those debates even got into Sage VS Demon Psychics as going head to head themselves. Those were all which one was better overall.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Madebyvisa - Raging Tide
    Madebyvisa - Raging Tide Posts: 283 Arc User
    edited February 2014
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    Head to head equal gears on same classes.. culti wudnt matter at all.. sure other mite have some advantage and weakness.. but overall if you lose a 1v1 to your own class u need to look into a mirror to see the reason u lost... if you know ur class in and out you'd also be able to make every kill attempt from your own class futile..
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Longknife - Harshlands
    Longknife - Harshlands Posts: 4,843 Arc User
    edited February 2014
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    Lol... thats it? 2 people on this subject given all the past debates of which path for a psy is better or not? It is not like those debates even got into Sage VS Demon Psychics as going head to head themselves. Those were all which one was better overall.

    I don't think you understand that Psy is one of the easiest classes to make the culti decision on. :U
    I <3 AGOREY
  • Devilskarma - Raging Tide
    Devilskarma - Raging Tide Posts: 172 Arc User
    edited February 2014
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    I don't think you understand that Psy is one of the easiest classes to make the culti decision on. :U
    When you speak of the culti decision overall, that's fine...

    But many of the arguments made in favor of a sage psy being better than a demon psy from past threads are pretty much null and void given a psy sage VS psy demon fight. expel + bol purify, longer psy will, and all the the nice things which supposedly allow a sage psy to stand up to physical damage output opposition better than a demon psy supposedly can... that all goes out the window vs another psy given sage vs demon.

    If I had to take a wild guess on why people are not responding to this post (which seems like it would be a good debate that has not been specifically gone over), my guesses are 2 things :

    1. Too many people left the game to be bothered versus how many people did play just months ago.

    2. Too many people got sick of getting badgered and trolled by just outright nasty people.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • opkossy
    opkossy Posts: 11,177 Community Moderator
    edited February 2014
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    3. Too many people not paying attention to the forums to contribute because they're actually in the game (or don't realize the forums exist). b:laugh
    (Insert fancy image here)
    image
  • Longknife - Harshlands
    Longknife - Harshlands Posts: 4,843 Arc User
    edited February 2014
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    But many of the arguments made in favor of a sage psy being better than a demon psy from past threads are pretty much null and void given a psy sage VS psy demon fight. expel + bol purify, longer psy will, and all the the nice things which supposedly allow a sage psy to stand up to physical damage output opposition better than a demon psy supposedly can... that all goes out the window vs another psy given sage vs demon.


    I literally just named one.

    When we're talking demon vs. Sage, the sage is going to have a 13 second, 9 second or 6 second charm cooldown while the demon will have a 14 second, 11 or 7 second charm cooldown, depending on how vigors are placed. The sage is given bias windows of opportunity in his favor, which is huge considering a single Soul of Silence blocks out a good 5 seconds of DDing. (AKA if the demon dares use empowered vigor when a sage empowers, he's heavily reliant on luck because a single SoSi proc will kill any possible combo and result in a charm tick)

    The demon CANNOT purify DoTs without taking a massive hit to his chi, thus making it so that the DoTs are a direct threat to chi, not to mention keeping DoTs on is dangerous as it makes a kill setup really easy for the sage. A demon literally cannot get **** done with his DoTs, by comparison. Likewise, realize that DoTs are one of the only safe ways to stack damage when a Psy has SoSt up. Say both Psys waste their genie on fortify or badge to avoid SoSt and now their genies are dead. Neither will want to set of SoSt cause both could potentially die due to it. But whereas a demon is basically helpless in this time, a sage can continue charm ticking, harassing, and probing for an opportunity this way.

    A demon's strength has always been regarded as their crit rate. However, with the current crit passives arising, that little advantage suddenly grows smaller as there's a much bigger difference between, say, 15-25% crit and 40-50% crit. One of those has you jumping from a crit every ~7th hit to a crit every 4th, the other is a much smaller jump comparatively. Likewise, one of those crit advantages requires some positioning on behalf of the demon, and since the sage requires absolutely no positioning whatsoever, the positioning becomes the demon's burden, becomes highly predictable and little things like Glacial Shards and Crystal Light suddenly work against the demon and prevent this. Tide Spirit on the other hand demands chi and, again, is highly predictable. Everyone and their mother knows Tide Spirit on a demon is killer, so this is the window of opportunity the sage is saving IG or what-have-you for. Good luck rebuilding that chi if you need Psy will to purify DoTs, otherwise have fun dealing with the DoTs as the sage continues to build chi faster than you.


    And that's the last point: the sage builds chi hella fast. Mind you, demons that utilize Mo zhen's taunt do an exceptional job of killing chi too, but my point is that Psys really only need one spark for any of their chi skills, and with Sage spirit Blast and the sage chi skill, not to mention a Psy's already exceptional cast speed. Hell, Disturb Soul in Psy vs. Psy can really matter. A sage will consistently dish out Earth Vector, a demon? Not so much. Where a sage saves spark on Earth Vector at 50% of the time, a demon saves it on Psy will only 30%. The odds work in sage's favor to build chi faster, and ultimately it's demon, not sage, who is more dependent on chi in the fight. A demon needs chi for Tide spirit, a demon needs chi for a helpful stun 100% of the time and a demon needs chi for their only purify. A sage? A sage doesn't even NEED it, but Earth Vector is helpful. Hell, with the spare chi, they can spend more on things like Soulburn or Telekinesis.



    At the end of the day, it really does come down to chi management and BoL, with the better Vigors being helpful as well.
    I <3 AGOREY
  • Devilskarma - Raging Tide
    Devilskarma - Raging Tide Posts: 172 Arc User
    edited February 2014
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    I literally just named one.

    When we're talking demon vs. Sage, the sage is going to have a 13 second, 9 second or 6 second charm cooldown while the demon will have a 14 second, 11 or 7 second charm cooldown, depending on how vigors are placed. The sage is given bias windows of opportunity in his favor, which is huge considering a single Soul of Silence blocks out a good 5 seconds of DDing. (AKA if the demon dares use empowered vigor when a sage empowers, he's heavily reliant on luck because a single SoSi proc will kill any possible combo and result in a charm tick)

    The demon CANNOT purify DoTs without taking a massive hit to his chi, thus making it so that the DoTs are a direct threat to chi, not to mention keeping DoTs on is dangerous as it makes a kill setup really easy for the sage. A demon literally cannot get **** done with his DoTs, by comparison. Likewise, realize that DoTs are one of the only safe ways to stack damage when a Psy has SoSt up. Say both Psys waste their genie on fortify or badge to avoid SoSt and now their genies are dead. Neither will want to set of SoSt cause both could potentially die due to it. But whereas a demon is basically helpless in this time, a sage can continue charm ticking, harassing, and probing for an opportunity this way.

    A demon's strength has always been regarded as their crit rate. However, with the current crit passives arising, that little advantage suddenly grows smaller as there's a much bigger difference between, say, 15-25% crit and 40-50% crit. One of those has you jumping from a crit every ~7th hit to a crit every 4th, the other is a much smaller jump comparatively. Likewise, one of those crit advantages requires some positioning on behalf of the demon, and since the sage requires absolutely no positioning whatsoever, the positioning becomes the demon's burden, becomes highly predictable and little things like Glacial Shards and Crystal Light suddenly work against the demon and prevent this. Tide Spirit on the other hand demands chi and, again, is highly predictable. Everyone and their mother knows Tide Spirit on a demon is killer, so this is the window of opportunity the sage is saving IG or what-have-you for. Good luck rebuilding that chi if you need Psy will to purify DoTs, otherwise have fun dealing with the DoTs as the sage continues to build chi faster than you.

    And that's the last point: the sage builds chi hella fast. Mind you, demons that utilize Mo zhen's taunt do an exceptional job of killing chi too, but my point is that Psys really only need one spark for any of their chi skills, and with Sage spirit Blast and the sage chi skill, not to mention a Psy's already exceptional cast speed. Hell, Disturb Soul in Psy vs. Psy can really matter. A sage will consistently dish out Earth Vector, a demon? Not so much. Where a sage saves spark on Earth Vector at 50% of the time, a demon saves it on Psy will only 30%. The odds work in sage's favor to build chi faster, and ultimately it's demon, not sage, who is more dependent on chi in the fight. A demon needs chi for Tide spirit, a demon needs chi for a helpful stun 100% of the time and a demon needs chi for their only purify. A sage? A sage doesn't even NEED it, but Earth Vector is helpful. Hell, with the spare chi, they can spend more on things like Soulburn or Telekinesis.

    At the end of the day, it really does come down to chi management and BoL, with the better Vigors being helpful as well.
    Very nice and detailed. I do appreciate your work here. There have to be more people though, eventually even, to debate both sides as well as this piece Longknife has delivered and delivered well. b:cool Where are all the veteran psys at? b:scorn
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • trands
    trands Posts: 2
    edited February 2014
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    Very nice and detailed. I do appreciate your work here. There have to be more people though, eventually even, to debate both sides as well as this piece Longknife has delivered and delivered well. b:cool Where are all the veteran psys at? b:scorn

    1vs1 questions are boring and mainly are to pull out highly biaised opinions. A 1vs1 is mainly 1 person vs another person. The difference lies in foreseeing what the other will do, gear difference and a bit of luck. On a psychic, foreseeing what the other is going to do will be even more important. It's not like you can stereo-type a 1vs1 fight.

    You don't want to hear it, but sage has the advantage on surviving and driving the other to the danger zone, while at the same time demon has the higher chance of actually putting in that lucky crit/dps chain to get the kill. Unless you consider the popular "+12 weapon with **** armor" battles, neither side is just going to roll through the opponent in the time of a single stun.

    Since you want an answer, I consider at least 80% of the psychics went sage just because psychics are said to be best sage, while 80% of the demons actually looked into the skills before going against popular opinion. Therefore, demon is more likely to have the upper hand.
  • Narcillatrix - Dreamweaver
    Narcillatrix - Dreamweaver Posts: 461 Arc User
    edited February 2014
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    Just going to throw in my 2 cents, I've played psy since about a month after they came out, so I guess I know a little bit about the class though I've stepped out of the pk aspect of them for a little bit recently for a short break.

    I would have to agree with just about everything Longknife said, he hit it on the nail pretty darn good to put it into perspective. But psy vs psy could always go either way, a mistake here and a lucky hit/crit there and it could be over.

    I personally went sage because the skills were more appealing to my play style, though the crit/offensive side of demon was just as yummy looking, was on the fence about it for a long time those years ago lol.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]