The future of PWI

coo1nigga · February 2014

Hello. I have been playing PWI for some years now, and I really enjoy the game! It is one of the fast-paced games out there, which is what I like. But why ruin a perfect game by pay2win? I don't get it. During the past few years it has been heavily cashshop focused. And if you don't have the money (lets face it, it cost alooooooooot to get engame gear) or find spending money on a game is wasted, you basically have nothing to do in pk. TT/HH99 geared players, g16 nirvana gear isnt even close to being competitive with r9. Yes, you can farm your *** off for years and buy gold off others, but there's always a limitation. The population on technically all servers are decreasing by alot. And the new patch doesn't really make it any better. Pay more to become even better. There's only the ones who doesnt care about pvp, only pve, and the majority of the cash-shoppers that are still around. Me, personally, I quit 2 years ago, cus I can't afford paying 1000's of $ to be the best, in a game! -snip-

Cus the way it's going now, in 2-3 years, PWI will be.. well.. dead! PWI has the best PVP mechanics I have experienced -snip- It's fast paced, and if you meet an equal geared person for a 1v1, it's all based on skills. But that's soo rare! There is no fun running around with g16 nirv/lunar gear, and get oneshot by a r9 sin zerk crit, barb zerk crit, seeker, bm, or 1shot by all r9 mages. I can tell you, if you don't cash-shop, you can only enjoy PvE! Cus there is no balance between the strength of g16 and r9. None what so ever! This is where I feel that PWI has failed. Why make the game "free2play" when you need to pay a sh*t load of money to even have a chance in pvp? I don't see the logic. Cus in the end, you will lose, which you already have, the majority of the servers population cus they can't keep up. The only ones who will be left, are the heavy cash-shoppers and the ones actually enjoying the pve part and think that is enough. But for the vast majority of the server, it isn't. The goal is to get 101+ and participate in pvp.

So here's what I've been thinking for the past 2-3 years. Why not join the games that are still doing ever so strong -snip- make it pay2play and make r9 and all cash-shop gear/stuffs (excluding fashion) free? Cus that sounds way more appealing than joining and finding out; "hey, this game is cool. But.. wait.. you have to pay to get the best gear? And THAT much? F*ck no!" *uninstalls*
I would rather pay 10-20$ a month to play it, have the same gear and and refines and shards as everyone else. It would maybe bring ALOOOT of people back, it would bring BALANCE to the game, and a steady income! Cus the way it's going right now, I will give it a maximum of 2-3 years.

But I guess all of this is too late, considering all the people that has spent 1000's of dollars on this game already. But that would be the best. -snip=

So, what is your opinion about this? Should PWE keep the ridiculous high prices for endgame-gear? Or would you be willing to spend 10$ a month to be equal with everyone else, and not let gears decide the outcome.

Templar - Sanctuary · February 2014

People also said game will be dead in 2-3 years - 4 years ago

bangis2010 · February 2014

I agree with the OP. -snip-

I remember HH gear 90 dominating the PVP. was fun .....

coo1nigga · February 2014

bangis2010 wrote: »

I agree with the OP. -snip-

I remember HH gear 90 dominating the PVP. was fun .....

I just made a point that me, personally, I like pwi mechanics, playstyle, skills and all more than -snip-. And actually paying for the game, than actually paying to win, is more satisfying. Balance is the key. Not relying on gears as it is now. And yes, you make a good point about the HH gear.

XDeliciousx - Morai · February 2014

I dont really see PWI will die in future because of reasons you said, only reason I see it die is if there wont be anymore money income from players so running the game wont be profitable. b:shutup

Verenor - Morai · February 2014

coo1nigga wrote: »

So here's what I've been thinking for the past 2-3 years. Why not join the games that are still doing ever so strong -snip- make it pay2play and make r9 and all cash-shop gear/stuffs (excluding fashion) free? Cus that sounds way more appealing than joining and finding out; "hey, this game is cool. But.. wait.. you have to pay to get the best gear? And THAT much? F*ck no!" *uninstalls*
I would rather pay 10-20$ a month to play it, have the same gear and and refines and shards as everyone else. It would maybe bring ALOOOT of people back, it would bring BALANCE to the game, and a steady income! Cus the way it's going right now, I will give it a maximum of 2-3 years.

Let's say you did join a game with membership, let's say you can't have alts there, and let's say on avg you spend 20$ a month on it (be it membership of $20 or $10 +items from boutique you will still end up buying like fashion or other "fun" stuff).
You played PWI for a couple of years, so I assume 3+ years. 36 months * $20 is $720, for that money you can practically buy r9 when it's on sale. Recasts of r9 are farmed and refinement orbs can be bought from others. Pwi you would invest in your gear once to reach competition-levels, which is what you complained about: not being able to compete. (hell you could even compete with only r9 wep in some cases)

Membership games might seem cheaper at the start, but the longer you play the costier it get's.

Imo PWI won't die in the near future. Most MMORPG's either die after 1-3 years or live a long and QQ'ing life.

Makaa - Heavens Tear · February 2014

Game is already died since they are no new players except alts.One game whithout new players isnt game anymore!!!!!

Brillance - Raging Tide · February 2014

Makaa - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Game is already died since they are no new players except alts.One game whithout new players isnt game anymore!!!!!

^ This. +1

I used to spend $40 a month, my household used to spend $80 a month.

Reality is no one can say they didnt like the game better when there were still new people coming on it in mass.

The real players cant say so; the scammers cant say so; the merchants cant say so; the people who are so wedged up their own buts that they only do anything with a select group cant say so; anyone who runs, or wants to run, a faction cant say so; the people who love to chime in with the ever-mature and thoughtful, "If you dont like it quit" cant say so; and so on.

3 years since mass players stopped even attempting to play, and its not dead? Really? o.0

How many times do you see heavy CSers QQ over no one PKing on their PvE server? o.0

"RB only" for BH59?? Do you guys really suck THAT bad? o.0

Who will you steam-roll and 1-shot spawn-kill in NW/TW? o.0

Ive watched people scam entire factions, and run more than one good faction name through the dirt, over gearing up.

People say this is a PvP game. So, why would gears be auto-bound? Why would binding stones be sold? They whole point of PK is to 'risk', gamble - some would say a 'challenge'?

LMAO! What challenge does one find in a PK where you cant lose much - unless you absentmindedly forget to put most of what you would worry about losing away? o.0

Its all good though. Once we all learn how to find the joy of AFKing in Reflection for XP, and Auto-cultiing for loot, things will be just great!

Interestingly enough - those things make sense for games that run advertisements on them to fund the game; making any other income pure gravy. They dont care if anyone plays, as they are making money based on how many players bother to simply log on each day. How those things make sense for a game that depends on people to solely want to spend money on it, Im just too silly to understand. xD

No one needs to suggest for anyone to quit. If anyone has looked outside of their plastic bubble long enough - masses have and do every day, and for years. If no one has noticed, masses dont even try to play anymore. b:surrender

Msdoomdesire - Sanctuary · February 2014

One of the major flaws I see is that pwe does not know how to advertise. Some people would say advertisement doesn't work, but the fact is it has been practices for years and correlations arrive with it. Pwe needs to advertise. -snip-

Samaranight - Sanctuary · February 2014

Makaa - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Game is already died since they are no new players except alts.One game whithout new players isnt game anymore!!!!!

You can't seriously expect new players to stick with a game like this. Neither should PWI. Just look at all the quest areas. The only signs of life there is the monsters themselves, and the cities except for Lagosaur is dead.

This game doesn't have a future. This is stagnation.

Btw, OP, it's Pay2BDisappointed. Not Pay2win.

SakuLv - Dreamweaver · February 2014

There r new players, not as many as it used to be but there r.
In my alt guild there r few new who joined. Gotta help in fb 19 and so on ;D fun
And when u ask then how long they been playing. They say few month or so

Devilskarma - Raging Tide · February 2014

Verenor - Morai wrote: »

Let's say you did join a game with membership, let's say you can't have alts there, and let's say on avg you spend 20$ a month on it (be it membership of $20 or $10 +items from boutique you will still end up buying like fashion or other "fun" stuff).
You played PWI for a couple of years, so I assume 3+ years. 36 months * $20 is $720, for that money you can practically buy r9 when it's on sale. Recasts of r9 are farmed and refinement orbs can be bought from others. Pwi you would invest in your gear once to reach competition-levels, which is what you complained about: not being able to compete. (hell you could even compete with only r9 wep in some cases)

Membership games might seem cheaper at the start, but the longer you play the costier it get's.

Imo PWI won't die in the near future. Most MMORPG's either die after 1-3 years or live a long and QQ'ing life.

Please tell me, how the **** is $180 a year for a per month subscription (less if you pay multiple months at one shot), or even ~$360 a year (if you buy a few "fun" things from their cash shops)... MORE money than PWI? Rank 9 initial cost on sale ~$500-750 (saying you can even catch the sales). Full +10 refined? A little over $400 just to go +8 => +10... Full +12 refined? ~$400 PER GEAR after you are all +10 already (x11 gears)... +2 Atk and Def stones socketed? ~$100 per socket (x24 sockets)... Neck, Cloak, Second Ring, Tome, Helm? Just to be competitive? HA! b:chuckle And we have not even gotten to the cards or the costs of charms, hps, mps, pdefs, mgc resists, apothecarial supplies, etc etc etc... Unless of course you have no intention of PvPing in a heavily PvP event filled game... even on PvE servers.

Samaranight - Sanctuary wrote: »

You can't seriously expect new players to stick with a game like this. Neither should PWI. Just look at all the quest areas. The only signs of life there is the monsters themselves, and the cities except for Lagosaur is dead.

This game doesn't have a future. This is stagnation.

Btw, OP, it's Pay2BDisappointed. Not Pay2win.

^THIS... is exactly the reason Hypers should have been restricted at ~75-85+ themselves. But what did PWI do? Listened to the idiots and left it as is and added another 210 levels b:surrender

Msdoomdesire - Sanctuary wrote: »

One of the major flaws I see is that pwe does not know how to advertise. Some people would say advertisement doesn't work, but the fact is it has been practices for years and correlations arrive with it. Pwe needs to advertise. The creators of Wow sure advertise up a storm.

Whereas you are absolutely right, what would they advertise? Pay 1,000's of $'s or get roflfacepwndcheapfugs? Advertising at it's finest. b:chuckle

Add +1 to all of what Brillance of Raging Tide stated.

mayral · February 2014

well, nothing lasts forever, we'll die toob:chuckle but I don't think that'll happen soon (pwi's death *cough*)

and also, pwi was never alive at all anyways. I know some really dumb mmos, I don't even want to compare them to perfect world but oh, they're still alive...

Evalria - Sanctuary · February 2014

New players are not discouraged by the game itself but by the people that play in it.
Unhelpful, arrogant, rude, show-offing and what have you.

Very few are left that follow by a common sense moral code and actually realize that behind every toon there's a real person, not just another AI meant to be insulted and kicked into oblivion. (Game is just like real life in this sense, but what can we expect still, again, played by people...)

I state this because I asked some new players I have met while playing, what they like/don't like and why. The general consensus has been this.
After all, a MMORPG is what its player base makes it to be more than anything.

This game just isn't for everyone I suppose, when it comes to gear, things to do, things to look forward to, etc. Happily there are many others to choose from.

Also... I am among those who don't support PWI becoming subscription based. Please stop trying to speak for the majority in that this would make it all "better" because, for some of us, it would not.

condo2009 · February 2014

SakuLv - Dreamweaver wrote: »

There r new players, not as many as it used to be but there r.
In my alt guild there r few new who joined. Gotta help in fb 19 and so on ;D fun
And when u ask then how long they been playing. They say few month or so

running a fb19 and been a few months since starting to play? lmbo. takes less than 4 hours to get to that point. dead game

Verenor - Morai · February 2014

Devilskarma - Raging Tide wrote: »

Please tell me, how the **** is $180 a year for a per month subscription (less if you pay multiple months at one shot), or even ~$360 a year (if you buy a few "fun" things from their cash shops)... MORE money than PWI? Rank 9 initial cost on sale ~$500-750 (saying you can even catch the sales). Full +10 refined? A little over $400 just to go +8 => +10... Full +12 refined? ~$400 PER GEAR after you are all +10 already (x11 gears)... +2 Atk and Def stones socketed? ~$100 per socket (x24 sockets)... Neck, Cloak, Second Ring, Tome, Helm? Just to be competitive? HA! b:chuckle And we have not even gotten to the cards or the costs of charms, hps, mps, pdefs, mgc resists, apothecarial supplies, etc etc etc... Unless of course you have no intention of PvPing in a heavily PvP event filled game... even on PvE servers.

I stated the costs of only r9 for a reason. Just because you can cash the refinement orbs doesn't mean you need to, something you aren't understanding about pwi it seems: other people cs them, you're able to buy them off of them in-game. If you're going to cash to +10 straight up the extra hp you gain from it isn't going to save you from any PvP'er with even the tiniest of skills.
Besides if you need r9r3+10 fully josd just to be able to compete you might start looking at your own skills lacking off instead of boutique.

Run AEU for apoth pots, 2nd ring can easily be r8 ring, G16 helmet/robe/cube neck..easy things to come by. If you want to find so many reasons to trash pwi into the bin, just do it already, but don't act as if you know better since you can't even make yourself stop posting about how awful something is yet participate in it's activities.

Deadlife - Lost City · February 2014

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

"RB only" for BH59?? Do you guys really suck THAT bad? o.0

Seeing RB only in anything is a joke apparently people forgot over the last years from pwi making it so easy to solo anything that this used to be a heavily team oriented game and which is what made pwi enjoyable. and really if I could solo it, i ask in wc if anyone needs it just out of common courtesy, something alot of people in this game could learn to have.

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple · February 2014

Evalria - Sanctuary wrote: »

New players are not discouraged by the game itself but by the people that play in it.
Unhelpful, arrogant, rude, show-offing and what have you.

Very few are left that follow by a common sense moral code and actually realize that behind every toon there's a real person, not just another AI meant to be insulted and kicked into oblivion. (Game is just like real life in this sense, but what can we expect still, again, played by people...)

I state this because I asked some new players I have met while playing, what they like/don't like and why. The general consensus has been this.
After all, a MMORPG is what its player base makes it to be more than anything.

This game just isn't for everyone I suppose, when it comes to gear, things to do, things to look forward to, etc. Happily there are many others to choose from.

Also... I am among those who don't support PWI becoming subscription based. Please stop trying to speak for the majority in that this would make it all "better" because, for some of us, it would not.

This ^^

Also, though the recent content has brought some minor revival to the lower-level stuff, it's still a far cry from being a populated landscape for new users to gain interest because there isn't anyone for them to associate with. Then later it's all e-peen and rude morons unless you find that one special faction that fits you, have some friends to start with, or fit the Pay-To-Win e-peen moron group that doesn't actually play the game.

Devilskarma - Raging Tide · February 2014

Verenor - Morai wrote: »

something you aren't understanding about pwi it seems: other people cs them, you're able to buy them off of them in-game. If you're going to cash to +10 straight up the extra hp you gain from it isn't going to save you from any PvP'er with even the tiniest of skills.
Besides if you need r9r3+10 fully josd just to be able to compete you might start looking at your own skills lacking off instead of boutique.

Run AEU for apoth pots, 2nd ring can easily be r8 ring, G16 helmet/robe/cube neck..easy things to come by. If you want to find so many reasons to trash pwi into the bin, just do it already, but don't act as if you know better since you can't even make yourself stop posting about how awful something is yet participate in it's activities.

You buy them in game with what coin, the coin that PWI continuously has taken out of the game more and more? Are you that blind to not see that? It will take an aweful lot of jolly jones for just 1 +10 orb. Based on your "if you need r9r3+10 fully josd just to be able to compete you might start looking at your own skills lacking" reply... I am pretty certain you have never been in a top end game TW faction. I was beating r9rr with r8r, so I have nothing to look at.

It is not about trashing PWI, it is about the fact that PWI is still one of the best "potential" games out there currently... It needs changes. Or are you also blind to that as well? So do not twist words with me.

Poulpe - Sanctuary · February 2014

Evalria - Sanctuary wrote: »

New players are not discouraged by the game itself but by the people that play in it.
Unhelpful, arrogant, rude, show-offing and what have you.

Very few are left that follow by a common sense moral code and actually realize that behind every toon there's a real person, not just another AI meant to be insulted and kicked into oblivion. (Game is just like real life in this sense, but what can we expect still, again, played by people...)

I state this because I asked some new players I have met while playing, what they like/don't like and why. The general consensus has been this.
After all, a MMORPG is what its player base makes it to be more than anything.

This game just isn't for everyone I suppose, when it comes to gear, things to do, things to look forward to, etc. Happily there are many others to choose from.

Also... I am among those who don't support PWI becoming subscription based. Please stop trying to speak for the majority in that this would make it all "better" because, for some of us, it would not.

This so much, Eva.
I've been playing this game through many hiatuses and comebacks since early '09 and everytime, it's that elitist/jerkface corner of it that just exhausts me after a while. You might disagree with me, but I generally feel as though the quality of community is worse on F2Ps. However, PWI had a stronger community than any F2P I've ever played by a longshot. It was my first game my thirteen-year-old self had ever played at the time and I have found myself oddly magnetized and repelled by its people over the years; there are so many great ones and also so many pity-party seeking drama vampires who use PWI as the source of all the social excitement in their life and beat others down. It's utterly depressing, and in the past two years my stays here have gotten shorter and shorter.

When I first started, my whole faction jumped at the chance to help me with something as simple as an FB29, and when I was strong enough to help I did the same. We all came, even though we didn't need it, just because we were having fun talking in fac chat and dueling and spamming the faint emote in compromising positions. Now, you can solo all your low FBs if you have dreamchaser gear as though you outleveled the content by 20 levels, or you can get some 101 seeker to stomp their way through it in 10 seconds flat. People don't learn how to cooperate in a team setting and the way the game tries to feed low levels as much exp and power as possible is one factor that has made this game so antisocial. In my opinion, these early game experiences are what I remember most; they were my first impressions and what got me hooked. I think PWI would have a lot better luck in keeping the community flourishing if some emphasis was placed on restoring the importance of low-level content in the game, particularly the development of teamwork. Because after all, community is what keeps an MMO thriving, and you're not going to build a successful one if people are required to skip 90% of the content in order to join most of the population.

And no, PWI wouldn't survive as a sub-based game. It's already been established as an F2P for a long time, has a substantial clientele of F2P players, and quite honestly I just don't think people, especially those strapped for cash with many more (and arguably superior) F2P options could justify paying a sub for the content and service it currently offers (being just an 18-year-old kid, I certainly wouldn't. Why pay a sub for this game when so many cute shoes go on clearance every day? Oh and gas money, I guess that's important too f:hehe). Making the game P2P or even B2P would just alienate way too many people, not just free players like myself, but heavy spenders who've sunk money into this game on R9, orbs and packs. It would also force us to adopt a new economic system where all the variables the economy's built on that we use to gauge it (gold, new packs, etc) would just vanish out of thin air. Undoubtedly it would be better for us if things like anni packs and R9 never existed at all, but they do, and removing them entirely or drastically changing the ways in which these things are acquired might just be too radical a change for us to handle.

Evalria - Sanctuary · February 2014

Poulpe - Sanctuary wrote: »

I think PWI would have a lot better luck in keeping the community flourishing if some emphasis was placed on restoring the importance of low-level content in the game, particularly the development of teamwork.

Truth!
All the compelling and fantastic content is mostly aimed for end-game folk and, while there is nothing inherently wrong with that, since they need to do things too, it would be nice if we low to mid got something to do besides BHs with random people we never talk to again.
The excitement of having a team to work with side by side in order to beat a dungeon is indeed another thing that makes our game so endearing.

For all the things you said, that's also a reminder why it is so, so difficult to find a Faction these days. "Holier than thou" people just complain all day about being too bored, usually leading to a lot of drama, while the people who actually want to play, have fun and make friends barely get like-minded people in order to do so.

Team? What's that. Help? What's that. Actually being friendly and treating others like human beings? What's that?! f:worry

I think this is the real problem. Loneliness and a lot of misunderstanding. That this and that is hard to get or is too OP or impossible to farm or blah blah blah, I feel it is just the cover up for this much deeper social issue. That it is generally miserable for everybody to do everything alone all the time.

Also, fellow Forum partner!

Now I know the reasons why it is so hard to catch you in-game!

*chases Tea's fluffy tail*

Brillance - Raging Tide · February 2014

When I first started playing, there were players coming on in mass. I never had an issue getting repeated squads to level, which is probably why I didnt bother with FC or hypers till I hit level 85.

I was busy enough, and having a great time. Everyone was new, learning, and a lot less judgemental.

Subscription games do not eliminate F2P. They just make high level content cost a monthly fee. Perhaps if someone really likes the game, their grandma will pay whatever it is.

How far does one get on $20 a month in gas? How many pair of clearance sale shoes can you buy a week on $20 a month. There is one long time subscription-based game that charges less than $10 a month. My prices were based on what me and my family used to spend on this game, back when there were plenty of new players, and we kept happily busy for a few hours.

If you are on such a small budget, one would think you would want the ability to log in and just have as much fun as everyone else does for a small fee. Isnt that better than eventually realizing that you probably never will be able to compete, until you spend years grinding and farming for stuff to sell to someone else - and who are those someone elses? Where are they coming from?

I dont care if the game stays exactly as it is. Its not like its me that stands to profit from it regardless of if it stays like it is, or actually does something to improve the quality of its gaming experience.

I would buy a subscription. Probably others would too. Id much rather grind instances with a bunch of new players to get totally geared up than just buy it.

I would even play another version of this game, but they confuse the **** out of me with their download instructions. Wtf, I cant use Firefox?? What can I use? (ijs...dont answer!!)

Maybe someone should make a poll, see if people would be willing to buy a subscription.

If no one wants to make a poll, that's cool too.

I would return if it became subscription based, and I had fair shot at playing the full game. If not, it can stay the free-to-play game for those too poor to buy a subscription, as well as the pay-to-win game of the select few.

You can really expect the most players to say "no". All that is left playing are those that like it just like it is.

It is what it is.

P.S. I wouldnt be ashamed to tell friends about this cool subscription based game. Im not telling anyone that I ever played a cool pay-to-win.

Poulpe - Sanctuary · February 2014

Well, I mean, obviously $20 is not my entire budget. XD The point I was getting at was that I have far better uses for that spare cash than this particular game were it to go P2P. There are some games I have and would certainly pay $15ish of my spare cash to play every month. But this one simply isn't worth it in my opinion; there are F2Ps around that exceed it content and feature-wise. I'm aware though that others may feel differently. The mmorpg market is stagnating a little and full of obvious cash-cows and indie pipe dreams, so I guess a lot of people would rather pay for what they love and what they've been attached to and invested a lot of time in than take a risk with some new game that might tank after its first year.

And you'd be shocked! I practically stole 3 adorable pairs of shoes for $20 during a president's day sale. I am a bigger sale hawk than my mother. But that's beside the point XD

Also, fellow Forum partner! Now I know the reasons why it is so hard to catch you in-game! *chases Tea's fluffy tail*

Eva

* chases Eva's tail and creates a mobius strip of pure fluffiness * I hadn't seen you around for a while, either. Maybe it was just the time difference. x.x I've missed you, though. I'm a little caught up in getting ready for college which is why I decided to take a break.

I think this is the real problem. Loneliness and a lot of misunderstanding.

Exactly.

Even the power creep part would not bother me so much if this game still had a well-balanced, nicely-distributed community across all content areas. I wouldn't mind being nub if I had other people to be nub with. :< Community is the bulk of any game for me; the whole time I've played this game I've been in FCC less than 10 times, and that was a long time ago. I stayed because I like to help and be involved in faction things and because I liked the teamwork and skill that used to be involved in something like FB69 20x20x20 or harpy wraith. But I see those things mattering less to the general community and I just end up feeling like a stubborn holdout with nostalgia goggles.

Brillance - Raging Tide · February 2014

Poulpe - Sanctuary wrote: »

Well, I mean, obviously $20 is not my entire budget. XD The point I was getting at was that I have far better uses for that spare cash than this particular game were it to go P2P. There are some games I have and would certainly pay $15ish of my spare cash to play every month. But this one simply isn't worth it in my opinion; there are F2Ps around that exceed it content and feature-wise. I'm aware though that others may feel differently. The mmorpg market is stagnating a little and full of obvious cash-cows and indie pipe dreams, so I guess a lot of people would rather pay for what they love and what they've been attached to and invested a lot of time in than take a risk with some new game that might tank after its first year.

And you'd be shocked! I practically stole 3 adorable pairs of shoes for $20 during a president's day sale. I am a bigger sale hawk than my mother. But that's beside the point XD ...

...Even the power creep part would not bother me so much if this game still had a well-balanced, nicely-distributed community across all content areas. I wouldn't mind being nub if I had other people to be nub with. :< Community is the bulk of any game for me; the whole time I've played this game I've been in FCC less than 10 times, and that was a long time ago. I stayed because I like to help and be involved in faction things and because I liked the teamwork and skill that used to be involved in something like FB69 20x20x20 or harpy wraith. But I see those things mattering less to the general community and I just end up feeling like a stubborn holdout with nostalgia goggles.

LOL, you're lucky. I skipped President's Day because I dont need anything. Have no space for a lot of what I already have. And, Ive been shopping a lot over the past year. So many sales...all year long...Ive actually begun to pride myself on NEVER paying full retail. xD

I know a lot of people that cant afford games. There's nothing wrong with that. I think we basicly agree about the problem the game has - but the large dollars to be able to fully participate are what makes most people not even look at it.

I dont believe there is a better game out there. Ive never found the character creation this game has on another game, and I dont even ini edit. xD

Sure, there are better Battlegrounds out there.

I love fashion, its cool too, and Ive never played another game that offered fashion of the same styles, variety and quality. These things may not mean a whole lot to some gamers, but Im a girl so...*shrugs* b:chuckle

Why should I have to go large amounts of time with nothing, so I can hopefully one day be somewhere near the gear-levels CSers can achieve in day?

Sort of defeats the purpose being in an 'impulse purchase' industry, in my honest opinion - and there is no more impulsive purchase on Earth than something made of pixels for entertainment. ^.^

ovenusarmanio · February 2014

I'd immediately quit if this game went p2p. Wouldn't even think twice about it. I don't pay for MMOs, as I prefer to buy content when I feel like it than to pay to even have access to it. If I wanted to do that, I'd just plop down 60 bucks on a single player game and be happier. At least then it's mine and I can sell off the used one to a game store, or trade it in for store credit when I'm done. And don't have to worry about things like not having access to the servers or getting banned. I'm sure I'm not the only person here that specifically chose this and other f2p games specifically because they are free-to-play. Just as there are a lot of people out there that avoid f2p games because of some of the problems inherent with the way they have to monetize. Baiting and switching is not something I tolerate as a consumer, which is how I would regard such a change personally.

Zanryu - Lothranis · February 2014

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

I'd immediately quit if this game went p2p. Wouldn't even think twice about it. I don't pay for MMOs, as I prefer to buy content when I feel like it than to pay to even have access to it. If I wanted to do that, I'd just plop down 60 bucks on a single player game and be happier. I'm sure I'm not the only person here that specifically chose this and other f2p games specifically because they are free-to-play. Just as there are a lot of people out there that avoid f2p games because of some of the problems inherent with the way they have to monetize. If I buy a hamburger, nd tell me the hamburger I just bought is no longer an option after the fact, and serve me a pizza? I don't care how much better you think pizza is, I would never return to such a restaurant. Same feeling I'd have if an MMO switched types. Baiting and switching is not something I tolerate as a consumer.

It wouldn't really be a bait and switch, it's more akin to that hamburger place noticing that the pizza places are flourishing while it is not. In order to compete or turn more profit it begins selling pizza instead of hamburgers. It is no longer a pizza place, and advertises itself as such, rather than baiting you in with hamburgers then only offering you pizza.

F2P with micro transactions is the way MMORPGs are heading, and have been for a while. PWI has already been using this model for years so it's extremely unlikely for it to go P2P. Personally I feel as if PWI barely has a chance with its current model since there's no incentive to do anything other than having friends who do it. PWI is nothing without its social aspect, more so than any other game I've played. If it were to go P2P it'd have nothing to offer that would be even remotely worth it.

Hmm. I wonder what the results would be if there was a "Reason you play PWI?" thread.

ovenusarmanio · February 2014

Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »

It wouldn't really be a bait and switch, it's more akin to that hamburger place noticing that the pizza places are flourishing while it is not. In order to compete or turn more profit it begins selling pizza instead of hamburgers. It is no longer a pizza place, and advertises itself as such, rather than baiting you in with hamburgers then only offering you pizza.

F2P with micro transactions is the way MMORPGs are heading, and have been for a while. PWI has already been using this model for years so it's extremely unlikely for it to go P2P. Personally I feel as if PWI barely has a chance with its current model since there's no incentive to do anything other than having friends who do it. PWI is nothing without its social aspect, more so than any other game I've played. If it were to go P2P it'd have nothing to offer that would be even remotely worth it.

Hmm. I wonder what the results would be if there was a "Reason you play PWI?" thread.

Meh that example didn't really convey what I wanted to say, which is why I edited out but apparently not fast enough. xD It would be different than that though because all of us who ordered burgers would suddenly have them taken away and forced to eat pizza or get out. What we ordered would not be what we got. Those who spent money, did so under the assumption that this is x business, not y business. It's different than offering the same exact thing but suddenly charging more for an entirely different experience than what was agreed on. It happens all the time, but it's not something that I will continue to do my business with and I have cashed in past. The type of monetization model has an enormous impact on the type of game being offered. It's not just a simple price increase.

Zanryu - Lothranis · February 2014

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

Meh that example didn't really convey what I wanted to say, which is why I edited out but apparently not fast enough. xD It would be different than that though because all of us who ordered burgers would suddenly have them taken away and forced to eat pizza or get out. What we ordered would not be what we got. Those who spent money, did so under the assumption that this is x business, not y business. It's different than offering the same exact thing but suddenly charging something different than what was initially agreed on. It happens all the time, but it's not something that I will continue to do my business with and I have cashed in past. The type of monetization model has an enormous impact on the type of game being offered. It's not just a simple price increase.

That example is still a bit... off. They wouldn't be changing what they serve mid-course, the game is still the same, it's the business model that's changing. You'd still be able to do FC and BH and all the other instances, only instead of having a boutique there'd be a monthly fee. In much the same way a restaurant would give a warning in advance, PWE or any gaming company would likely give a warning regarding a chance to their business model.

People would likely be upset, that's to be expected, but your burgers would still be there. The way you get them would just be a little different. Though in this case, the burgers aren't really worth having to put up with the change we're discussing.

ovenusarmanio · February 2014

Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »

That example is still a bit... off. They wouldn't be changing what they serve mid-course, the game is still the same, it's the business model that's changing. You'd still be able to do FC and BH and all the other instances, only instead of having a boutique there'd be a monthly fee. In much the same way a restaurant would give a warning in advance, PWE or any gaming company would likely give a warning regarding a chance to their business model.

People would likely be upset, that's to be expected, but your burgers would still be there. The way you get them would just be a little different. Though in this case, the burgers aren't really worth having to put up with the change we're discussing.

The monetization models effects a lot. It changes the utility of certain items, like making all fashion free or all r9 gear free, robbing them of some of their purpose and utility. A hamburger pizza also has meat, bread, and cheese. But it is not the same thing as a hamburger. Not unlike the method of cooking totally changing the way a food tastes; the monetization model changes an awful lot about a game. Changing the monetization model totally restructures the game and would have a far more wider reaching impact than merely a price change.

Desdi - Sanctuary · February 2014

I'd quit too if PWI went pay-to-play though as it's been said it's unlikely. I chose to play PWI precisely because it was/is free-to-play. I couldn't, I wasn't and I still am not willing to pay for a subscription mainly because then I feel pressured to play simply because I have paid whilst with PWI I can quit anytime I please without caring or worrying about anything. I've taken several breaks from the game.

I suppose you can cancel subscriptions but meh..too much trouble.

Zanryu - Lothranis · February 2014

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

The monetization models effects a lot. It changes the utility of certain items, like making all fashion free or all r9 gear free, robbing them of some of their purpose and utility. A hamburger pizza also has meat, bread, and cheese. But it is not the same thing as a hamburger. Not unlike the method of cooking totally changing the way a food tastes; the monetization model changes an awful lot about a game. Changing the monetization model totally restructures the game and would have a far more wider reaching impact than merely a price change.

Because something does not cost money does not make it free. The cost shifts from real life money to time in game, which is more or less the same as it is now for some of us. Instead of spending money on my R9r3 I spent time, instead of spending money on my refines I spent time. It doesn't rob people of anything, the gear hasn't lost its value or utility. The only difference is that people no longer have the option to spend their money on their gear, only their time. How PWE would put cash shop items into the game in a way that would make it around the same level of difficulty to obtain as it is now I can't really say, but should the game ever switch to a P2P model, or should any game for that matter, people wouldn't be robbed at all. They may feel robbed due to having spent money when they didn't need to, but the reality would be that they never needed to at all. They could have simply used their time instead of money, and assuming the difficulty of getting the gear remains roughly the same they would actually be getting out ahead of any newcomers since the gear or items would be harder for most people to obtain due to a lack of time.

Of course... this does pose the question, is changing in game content rather than game model robbing people of their gear's value? It happens often, and once new content comes out older gear becomes obsolete or less useful. People who invested in Nirvana lost the value of their gear over the course of a month, gear that was once hundreds of millions became worth 100m for the entire set. Nobody really complained about being robbed, it was accepted and people moved on with the new content, people basically lost hundreds of millions in gear value and the game didn't end. Should the game change models I imagine that as long as the gear takes the same amount of time to get nobody would really outrage, seeing as spending money was always optional and the gear's value in game would remain the same.

If they were stupid about it people would definitely quit, but I don't see an outrage as long as it was handled okay. Though, to be fair that assumes the game would be worth paying for on a monthly basis, which it isn't.

The future of PWI

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