qq over qq over the qq

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide · February 2014

endless threads about purify proc being op then theres the new bm and barb "paralyze" QQ

well i only have to say 1 thing to it: ASSASSIN

lifehunter + elimination

yes u got served if u didnt ig / ad >>> why u QQ bout a stun when a sin can click 2 buttons
and drop u like fly ... yeah sure a bm can now lock you forever if they got theyre timing set ...
i've tested it a few times now a full r9rr sin will drop a BM with P marrow in 2 clicks...
since u rest of ppl dont have 70k pdeff... why u QQ bout wrong things ... Dont get me wrong a sin was allways the 1 class to destroy everything ,,,, but honestly how much simpler can pwi make it ... 2 clicks and u get what like 10 hits in ... even tho u had purify spell ud be dead .... and also the possibility of all those hits to be able to zc ? yeah bms can lock u and got 2 skills to hit double time .. whats that make a sin then ....
tidal up ..... u "cant" stop em unless lucky .. and all they need is 2 buttons .....
take it to a mass pvp scenario ... yeah as a bm ur on mag marrow with like 50k pdeff buffed ....
they 2 shot u at 70k pdeff... so whats the point .. see a sin ... ad / ig .....
now comes to play cooldowns ....
sure a bm cud spam the lock with bash and rotp .... how does that work vs tidal....
and tbh try with any other class... dead in a second ...
we tested it ... and if u link em 2 skills .. they add so fast dmg ur charm wont even tick .. its just oh i was there ... DEAD...

tbh idm it even .. i just wanna make my point of u ridiculous ppl QQing over the totally wrong stuff ...
no OFEENCE ... but a sin will drop anything nowadays ... try it test it ... u wont survive it ,.... so in all that sense ... PLEASE STAHP THE ENDLESS QQ over SOME SILLY PARALYZE !

b:bye

PS: im not sure bout skill names or that .. honestly dc ... things are like they are nuttin gona change ... just sayin...

PSS. yeah as bm p marrow an ad / ig + will of bodhi yeah like ur free on that with a 66% tidal...
the cooldown on these skills is so fast u need only 1 occult to pretty much destroy what u want ... OP much?

Crixxix - Raging Tide · February 2014

Sorry, but I just see this as another QQ thread. I agree that if all this info is true, this is messed up, but this isn't the way to end QQ threads.

Not trying to be rude, hope you know what I mean.

porphy · February 2014

Crixxix - Raging Tide wrote: »

Sorry, but I just see this as another QQ thread. I agree that if all this info is true, this is messed up, but this isn't the way to end QQ threads.

Not trying to be rude, hope you know what I mean.

Wow, you beat me on this.
+1.

hadesgabriel · February 2014

It's called class favoritism it has been like that for some years and now all are sins ruining the class diversity killing the game

freygin · February 2014

btw did you test with 2 spark before doing the combo ? that'd be OP even more

_dblazen_ - Dreamweaver · February 2014

This is seriously one of the most poorly written OP's of all times and my eyes started bleeding.
Also, please tell us how many sins actually have life hunter AND elimination.
b:bye

freygin · February 2014

Sooner or later, many sins will have them especially if the skills are OP like 5 aps back in the day, how many sins do you know have 5 aps ?

Auerlius - Archosaur · February 2014

_dblazen_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »

This is seriously one of the most poorly written OP's of all times and my eyes started bleeding.
Also, please tell us how many sins actually have life hunter AND elimination.
b:bye

english may not be this person's first language so let's get off our high horse and that the ego out your ears. what he is saying is true. sins have become unbalanced again, like archers [and barbs, yes mighty swing is garbage.] doesn't meeter how many have it what maters is that it is possible to make a lop sided toon even easier now.

Aeliah - Dreamweaver · February 2014

I learned Life Hunter on my sin... and... its... very strong. I've seen videos of Elimination, and it looks even more scary. I've been farming Aba for ages to get it... but yeah, even with my own lvl 105 sin, I agree that sins have become very scary again.

Pwnallagain - Heavens Tear · February 2014

Even with the new skills, many classes have insane defense so even with multiple hits it is extremely hard to kill someone. Also, the initial post said you could kill a p marrow bm in 2 clicks, i would like to see that happen LOL, an r9s3 sin attacking a p marrow bm does almost no damage even with the new skills. Every classes new skills are very good, just deal with it.

porphy · February 2014

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I learned Life Hunter on my sin... and... its... very strong. I've seen videos of Elimination, and it looks even more scary. I've been farming Aba for ages to get it... but yeah, even with my own lvl 105 sin, I agree that sins have become very scary again.

Lat, teach me farm aba please b:avoid

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide · February 2014

Pwnallagain - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Even with the new skills, many classes have insane defense so even with multiple hits it is extremely hard to kill someone. Also, the initial post said you could kill a p marrow bm in 2 clicks, i would like to see that happen LOL, an r9s3 sin attacking a p marrow bm does almost no damage even with the new skills. Every classes new skills are very good, just deal with it.

like i said in my post idc about this OPness i only made it cause ppl QQ over a lot of things that arent QQ worthy compared to this ... and yes a sin will 2 hit a 70k pdeff bm.. i know i am one of those bm's sure it hits low dmg on few of the hits .. but the last hit it is allways 9k dmg or smth .. and it all ups so fast u can wear a new charm and be dead and still have a new charm... the fact is .. ur charm will be bypassed every single time. and yes naturally that sin is 2 sparkd from stealth with TM from genie .. no news in that every sin does that.

killeresras · February 2014

Sins get stronger and stronger and never get nerfed. The damage is way to high. When an r999 psychic with +11-12 refines, full high grade garnet shards, def ring/nw ring can get 1 shot by sin we have a problem.
Solutions:
Nerf the new skills.
Lower length of tidal shield and increase cd.
Set time limit on stealth(like maybe 20 seconds with 40 sec cd) so they can't stealth 24/7(the low mp drain being the downside of this skill is useless)

These are solutions that wouldn't break the class, but would tone them down a grade.

Some sins will state that as a veno I have defence skills so should understand, but none of them last anywhere near as long as tidal and our best one cost 2 sparks to use.

Also I don't even like the psychic I mentioned, but even I get sad that someone of his gear is a 1-2 shot by sin.

Cinderball - Raging Tide · February 2014

Elimination + lifehunter is scary but manageable. Double/triple sparked elimination + lifehunter is GG though. They don't do as much DPH as our old skills but the DPS output is super high. Throw in the skill damage boost and cotd and it becomes rather lethal. Two shotting seems rather unlikely on someone with 95% pdef though. Each individual hit of elimination does less than an autoattack would besides the last hit which is 120% base damage.

A combo allows us to get in elimination + 5 lifehunter attacks in a 10 second interval if we aren't interrupted. Assume a sin has ~20k base damage, 60% crit rate, 20% zerk rate, and 16% skill damage boost. The sin would do around 185k raw damage from the five lifehunters and 64k from elimination for 249k total. Multiply by the crit rate, gof rate, and skill damage boost and you end up around 550k total damage. Multiply by 25% and 5% for pvp reduction and pdef reduction and you only get around 7k damage in that time span. Assuming the sin has 150 attack levels over your def levels, you'll take around 17.5k damage on average. Keep in mind though that is divided between 15 hits and a zc from any of those hits shouldn't go over 4-5k if you are at the pdef cap. Sparking and amping would improve the damage a lot to the point of 8-10k zerk crits and taking the full combo would kill pretty much anything but a barb.

An effective nerf would be just to make occult ice a skill sins can't use. Any cc we'd use wouldn't keep you in place long enough to do this kind of damage without you being able to leap away/interrupt it or we'd have to waste time and sparks with lower dps skills to keep you in a lock while we use lifehunter/elimination as fillers making it less dangerous. It isn't as bad for casters because they'll likely get bailed out by purify proc between when elimination starts and the first lifehunter ends. It is archers that get hurt the most by the combo imo.

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide · February 2014

sure its manageable if the sin isnt r9rr 12+ if he is .. its not manageable in anyway.. mite kite it and ad ig it luckily 2 times but with those cooldowns... its just a matter of time u drop like a fly ... and in a way its not the damage of each hit that is somehow op its the possibility of zc with all of those hits ... bm gets multiple hit skills too which none can zc on the after hits.. the main issue is the fact that those skills combined wont allow ur charm to tick.. sure u cud maybe tnak it too if ur charm wud tick but sitting at 24k hp selfbuffed ur bound to die if ur charm doesnt tick.. maybe my hp is in some weird way at a exact point where it completely goes thru charm or maybe its somthing else all i know is my charm had same amount on it before after erry time so yeah thats kinda where the issue is

Aeliah - Dreamweaver · February 2014

Perhaps all they have to do is increase the cast time of elimination by 1 second, and space the 5 attacks out a bit more. The problem I'm seeing with this skill so far is that, because PWI having old servers, people having crappy internets, or any other number of factors---charms aren't ticking.

Example:

I have 20k hp. An assassin does elimination, and the hits are, for argument's sake, 5k 3k 3k 4k 8k. That shouldn't be an issue right? 5k... Down to 15k hp. 3k... down to 12k hp. #k... down to 9k hp = charm tick... right?

Brrrrp. Wrong. Instead, what happens is the same thing every dps sin has been doing to people ever since aps became a thing---the 4k and the 8k hit complete BEFORE the charm ticks. Therefore, you die just like that.

What changed for the old aps was that dph gear got better but the aps gear did not. Therefore aps users are extremely squishy and generally can't survive more than a couple of hits, which means that the build isn't viable anymore.

However, elimination gives temporary aps to assassin builds that are extremely tanky and extremely high in attack levels.

It doesn't matter if an arcane gets the purify proc or not. With the short casting time of elimination, arcanes can't get far enough away before the skill completes and they die.

I agree---elimination feels stronger than necessary. Again, the damage isn't so much the problem (though I wouldn't say no to lowering it a bit) but the short cast time is a big problem when charms aren't ticking properly.

Desdi - Sanctuary · February 2014

It's pretty epic when they use it and the Venomancer uses Bramble Hood.. they can't exactly cancel it so f:laugh it only works for non open world PvP though.

I'd agree that they could modify it a little just to make it a little more balanced I suppose. The ideas others have thrown around seem reasonable but I don't think we'd see anything like this so just gotta get used to it.

Azura - Lost City · February 2014

I agree sins are op, and their new skill are op too. However, what kind of Bm died to just those skills in physical marrow? I'm willing bet that there was a huge gear gap between the sin and bm. If sins could really kill bms like that I would be happy, and they would be dropping like flies.

Dragon rising is more op. With sins skills at least there is a good change purify will prok. With dragon raising the only option is to not get hit.

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

It's pretty epic when they use it and the Venomancer uses Bramble Hood.. they can't exactly cancel it so f:laugh it only works for non open world PvP though.

I'd agree that they could modify it a little just to make it a little more balanced I suppose. The ideas others have thrown around seem reasonable but I don't think we'd see anything like this so just gotta get used to it.

Lol yeah. I really like to use blazing barrier against this because it reflects 100% of damage , skill or not, for only 15 chi.

freygin · February 2014

Elimination needs 2.6 seconds to complete, so per hit will take 0.52 second, or ~2 attacks per second, the damage is 320% from physical attack in character info, so it's 64% the value from base physical attack per hit. Doesn't sound like much but with 2 sparks or 3 sparks that would surely hurt, also since it's a skill use, it gets amplified by passive skill.

What's the aps of a non 5 aps sins nowadays ?

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide · February 2014

Azura - Lost City wrote: »

I agree sins are op, and their new skill are op too. However, what kind of Bm died to just those skills in physical marrow? I'm willing bet that there was a huge gear gap between the sin and bm. If sins could really kill bms like that I would be happy, and they would be dropping like flies.

Dragon rising is more op. With sins skills at least there is a good change purify will prok. With dragon raising the only option is to not get hit.

70k pdeff like posted above.. u shud probably know that no low geared toon has that.. but for clarification sake all endgame nw cast everything sage +11/+12 everything deity sharded...
and no i cant tank it even with r8r def wep and malleys... it barely hits the 24k dmg added up and that is my hp .. without a charm tick its dead and the charm just wont tick.

freygin · February 2014

70k pdef is equal to 94.37% damage reduction or probably 95% rounded in character info, you should take a peek at the character stats of the sin who did that and see how much damage he has.

BM is the one class that can achieve highest pdef easily with p marrow, if even a BM can't tank that, how about arcanes b:shocked ?

DionDagger - Dreamweaver · February 2014

killeresras wrote: »

Sins get stronger and stronger and never get nerfed. The damage is way to high. When an r999 psychic with +11-12 refines, full high grade garnet shards, def ring/nw ring can get 1 shot by sin we have a problem.
Solutions:
Nerf the new skills.
Lower length of tidal shield and increase cd.
Set time limit on stealth(like maybe 20 seconds with 40 sec cd) so they can't stealth 24/7(the low mp drain being the downside of this skill is useless)

These are solutions that wouldn't break the class, but would tone them down a grade.

Some sins will state that as a veno I have defence skills so should understand, but none of them last anywhere near as long as tidal and our best one cost 2 sparks to use.

Also I don't even like the psychic I mentioned, but even I get sad that someone of his gear is a 1-2 shot by sin.

You seem to have a real vendetta against the sin class. The problem here is the psy CAN, not the psy WILL. I'm pretty sure that 9.9/10 the sin will never 1 shot the psy. You missed something, and came here to QQ instead.

I should call him stupid for sharding garnets, really. Pdef is way too easy to debuff, and any str genie can make you have the pdef of a low geared caster, at that point your hp is nothing. Tell him to shard JoSD plz, and stop being bad.

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide wrote: »

70k pdeff like posted above.. u shud probably know that no low geared toon has that.. but for clarification sake all endgame nw cast everything sage +11/+12 everything deity sharded...
and no i cant tank it even with r8r def wep and malleys... it barely hits the 24k dmg added up and that is my hp .. without a charm tick its dead and the charm just wont tick.

24k Hp is kinda low for a BM near end game. I know a g16 BM with 34k hp base (vit sharded ofc). But you must be careful with this as well, because of skills like mire. My wife's genie can drop your pdef by 60-70% which puts you at 21-24k pdef, which is significantly less. Combine that with elemental damage, zerk crits, and sparks; it may be quite possible. Not discounting your story, but there may be something that was missed.

killeresras · February 2014

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You seem to have a real vendetta against the sin class. The problem here is the psy CAN, not the psy WILL. I'm pretty sure that 9.9/10 the sin will never 1 shot the psy. You missed something, and came here to QQ instead.

I should call him stupid for sharding garnets, really. Pdef is way too easy to debuff, and any str genie can make you have the pdef of a low geared caster, at that point your hp is nothing. Tell him to shard JoSD plz, and stop being bad.

24k Hp is kinda low for a BM near end game. I know a g16 BM with 34k hp base (vit sharded ofc). But you must be careful with this as well, because of skills like mire. My wife's genie can drop your pdef by 60-70% which puts you at 21-24k pdef, which is significantly less. Combine that with elemental damage, zerk crits, and sparks; it may be quite possible. Not discounting your story, but there may be something that was missed.

Not vendetta. I follow the facts and what I've seen to be true. Only a few, which happen to be mostly sins, deny that sins are OP. News flash eliminate is apps that doesn't require a sin to use squishy apps gear. And worse 5 shots that hit so fast people die before charm ticks. The class just gets more OP by the update. Please name one nerf to sins that is actually worth mentioning. I can name plenty for the other classes. No apps is not just a sin thing.

Your statement is so flawed. Like sins aren't OP, but we need full josd sets for them. You lost your argument that sins aren't OP just by saying the r999 +11-12 psychic should go JOSD if he wants to survive sins.

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide · February 2014

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

24k Hp is kinda low for a BM near end game. I know a g16 BM with 34k hp base (vit sharded ofc).

yeah naturally when i was vit sharded i had more and some my refines still 11 not 12 .. 24k is 32k buffed yeah sure cud roll a 80k hp bm .. but what good does that bm do other than destroy his own charms.. nty ..

Aeliah - Dreamweaver · February 2014

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide wrote: »

yeah naturally when i was vit sharded i had more and some my refines still 11 not 12 .. 24k is 32k buffed yeah sure cud roll a 80k hp bm .. but what good does that bm do other than destroy his own charms.. nty ..

Would be epic and unstoppable in TW?

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide · February 2014

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Would be epic and unstoppable in TW?

naw i tried it once in nw.. restat to vit... charm massacre is what it was nothing else.. sure make a ton of tanking points but u wont hit any1 and if you do u deal insignificant dmg.. maybe works for a pure support bm... id get bored of playing that in minutes..

Clergywoman - Raging Tide · February 2014

on my first encounter with those skills i raged and blamed my assumed lag. i assumed it was lag, because the sin poped out of stealth to greet me with a plethora of rapid and hard hits, despite being clearly in chill of deep. i could not even respond with a "hi, let me hit AD real quick".
lag was not to blame. to blame is pve who thougth it was a good idea to give sins a"kill a target before they can scream for help" skill. b:shocked

Evryn - Morai · February 2014

Meh. Sins.

If they'd hardlimit max attacks per second to 3 instead of the current 5, that whole mess would be sorted in under a second. That also puts the kybosh on the insane cost of interval reduction gear, and gives players who want to focus on slower attack, higher damage builds a much better opportunity to do so. PvE sins could rely less on Bloodpaint as a "can't kill me I heal faster then you can hit" skill, and PvP sins wouldn't be able to basically oneshot someone out of stealth with a skill and autoattack. But the same can be said for fist BM's and APS barbs.

I've only got one gripe with sins truly, and that's their status evasion skill. There's no tradeoff to it.

Bhavyy - Raging Tide · February 2014

If this is true this is a bit ridiculous.

Socqar - Lost City · February 2014

Bhavyy - Raging Tide wrote: »

If this is true this is a bit ridiculous.

Considering this fast, I guess it's true. They usually tend to **** things when it comes to balancing end-games sin... so mdeh, will get 50k instead of the usual 20k from Rinc U.U

ablabahabla · February 2014

Bhavyy - Raging Tide wrote: »

If this is true this is a bit ridiculous.

the thing is sins will use more and your 70k pdef goes down to maybe 40k or even less, combineing it with subsea makes it rly hit hard, but to bypass a charm the target shouldnt have used a reduce phys dmg apo charm.
TBH without those reduce by 50 or 67% charms anything will drop in secs by sins, but also by any other char. PK wihtout those charms nowadays is just **** because the dmg output is too high. If u check youtube for some sin vids u can see rinc hitting endgame barbs for 30ks with old skills and for 13ks with the new aps skills ...
if u used a def charm u'll lol about the dmg but without u sure will QQ

qq over qq over the qq

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