Farming Toon

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  • Muzaki - Morai
    Muzaki - Morai Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Ok so I'm able to raise my budget to 500mil now since some items sold more refines and more upgrades for the class i choose
  • peckked
    peckked Posts: 224 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Saying a sin can't reach a comfortable and safe farming grade is BS. Can't think of any other way to put it. Have you PVEed lately? There's nothing that isn't a cake walk in aps at this point for me, and my aps set has fallen far behind... and I'm not living on a charm either.

    Also, about 10% of the time I hit upwards of 225k unsparked with auto attacks the majority of the rest around 100k. With my old NV3+11 daggers I hit a bit harder and still was backed with a lot more crit and accuracy.

    As far as your point about Barbs having a permanent pdef debuff, BMs do pretty well between HF and Glacial... You might also look as your need to use your debuff as just a replacement of chi management of classes that don't have to amp their damage just for mobs. You'll almost never see a damage increase of 100% between your 100str genie + class debuffs. BMs can.. 1 skill.. and better if they toss in an extreme poison or tangling mire or glacial. And anyone can have an army of genies. I have 4 that serve different purposes.

    Genies were a nice touch. Shows you're really grasping at straws now.

    As for the OP, if you're starting to look at higher budgets as time goes on, consider that survivability passed a certain point doesn't help, while damage does (and can help survivability). So while at lower refined builds you might want to consider trading out speed for greater survivability, at higher refines the tankier Barbs, and BMs will cap at a much lower overall efficiency in terms of speed when it comes to farming. Still ALL great choices. Though if your budget on your server is enough to get you a decent +10 weapon, 4.0 APS (with spark or windshield), 9k hp unbuffed from refines and shards (8k would probably do for a sage), ~5k pdef unbuffed you'll be able to handle everything in TT (buffed) short of possibly Steelation, Emperor and Armageddon after you learn the bosses' tricks. Depending on how skilled you are, you can do more and get by with less. If you've enough available funds, and plan on developing your toon into a better farmer as time goes on, I'd go with a sin.
  • Shaftzsk - Heavens Tear
    Shaftzsk - Heavens Tear Posts: 217 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    One thing you should consider: ANY class at "endgame gear" can solo TT and FF pretty easy. Of course some classes will always do it faster, others will do it safer, others will rely on buffs (melee can't do w/o BP), and differents classes will have advantages on differents bosses; but that depends on your playstyle and your skills with the class you choose.

    And the "endgame gear" I said is not full R9s3+12 with JODs. NVs3 or R9s3+7-10 can almost always do the job. Nowdays it's not even endgame anymore, just a good gear. b:surrender

    If you'll build a char for farm purpose only - FF/TT -, I would go with a sin.

    But if you have another ways for earn money and you're willing to save more, just choose the class you like the most and go till the end with it. (Dunno about AA tbh, probably they need a 2-3x more expensive gear to be able to do solo the same bosses the others classes do)

    I can take 5-7 min to kill Minister with my seeker, but I have fun doing so, and it matters too because farming gets boring too fast if you don't enjoy what you're doing.
  • Deceptistar - Sanctuary
    Deceptistar - Sanctuary Posts: 10,454 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Ok so I'm able to raise my budget to 500mil now since some items sold more refines and more upgrades for the class i choose
    at this point alot of the rabid posters have probably already skipped over the fact that there was a budget involved b:surrender 500m ideally would help you build a farming sin, this including the refines/shards if you try not to rush it too much.
    Ever since the tideborn came out, technically the farming instances havnt changed a whole lot. Im reading back on some things and altho ther are a couple classes listed as choices, id stick with sin.
    The farming itself is a very routine process and the only 'tricky' part with sins are timing the 3sparks/apoth/genie. Until i had my seeker decked out i used to farm TT with my aps+5 sin :s
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  • ImNotFeelnIt - Heavens Tear
    ImNotFeelnIt - Heavens Tear Posts: 211 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I don't see why (especially on a low budget) a sin should do significantly more dmg...and why a bm?

    Dagger Devotion. Sins are using the weapons they were designed to use, and have the passive skill that increases their damage. Barbs have the same, Axe and Hammer Mastery.

    Every one of these atypical builds has to overcome the loss of their passive mastery skills. Barbs have to work that much harder to be able to do as much damage with claws as a BM with Claw Mastery or a Sin with Dagger Devotion.
    geez guys :( not going to be mean...but seriously thibk before yoi write something. Do I really have to explain everything? where's the edge to common sense here?

    Seems pretty obvious to me. Seems more of a struggle to overcome the handicap of trying to power your way past the *loss* of a mastery for the weapon you have chosen, than to just pick the weapon your class was designed for.

    *Especially* on a budget.
  • Chigenkaiona - Dreamweaver
    Chigenkaiona - Dreamweaver Posts: 756 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Ok so I'm able to raise my budget to 500mil now since some items sold more refines and more upgrades for the class i choose

    Sage sins. DO NOT listen to people that say mystic. Sage sins solo the FASTEST, FC AND TT. Mystics while fast in FC, aren't the best at killing very fast in TT....no self healing+massive constant damage at the same time....they have to choose between healing or hitting, unlike sage sins.

    Oh and before someone says "I can heal myself while my storm mistress dds"....Storm's DD doesn't compare to that of sins. So don't even go there.

    P.S. I'm not dissing mystics. I'm simply stating the best possible farming class he can make for 500m. Pangu around 300m. and the last 200m for APS gear/G16 high refined daggers and some good refines on armor(assuming he makes the armor, not buys)
  • Muzaki - Morai
    Muzaki - Morai Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Sage sins. DO NOT listen to people that say mystic. Sage sins solo the FASTEST, FC AND TT. Mystics while fast in FC, aren't the best at killing very fast in TT....no self healing+massive constant damage at the same time....they have to choose between healing or hitting, unlike sage sins.

    Oh and before someone says "I can heal myself while my storm mistress dds"....Storm's DD doesn't compare to that of sins. So don't even go there.

    P.S. I'm not dissing mystics. I'm simply stating the best possible farming class he can make for 500m. Pangu around 300m. and the last 200m for APS gear/G16 high refined daggers and some good refines on armor(assuming he makes the armor, not buys)

    i can make the gear/weapons myself since i have the skills. Only problem is i have to buy R8, and that has to go into the budget so pangu would probably have to wait
  • WannaBM - Archosaur
    WannaBM - Archosaur Posts: 1,984 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    BTW, APS toons are the best at farming TT or FC, but it there is much more to do out there that also makes a good profit like FW and FSP.

    So you might as well just build the toon you like to bring to endgame and start "farming' with that. Doing some different things makes gaming more enjoyable than spending all your time in TT anyway :)
    Everything i write is from PvE perspective unless mentioned otherwise.
  • Muzaki - Morai
    Muzaki - Morai Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    BTW, APS toons are the best at farming TT or FC, but it there is much more to do out there that also makes a good profit like FW and FSP.

    So you might as well just build the toon you like to bring to endgame and start "farming' with that. Doing some different things makes gaming more enjoyable than spending all your time in TT anyway :)

    this is true. Think i got all the info i need ty everyone again b:thanks
  • seitori
    seitori Posts: 1,328 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    seitori wrote: »

    the quotes are getting longer and longer here xD

    I think you missunderstood me there. the 28-32,5k I mentioned are not dmg. this is what is displayed in the chara menu while I'm sparked. Judging from the numbers you wrote...well on a normal mob within the range of 3 lvl of me I deal 22 to 44k dmg unsparked (upper number is crit) and about 42-84k sparked. Even a +12 G16 Dag sin from my Faction (regular aps gear) does not have that attack stat. Ofc they got more crit and all...but still, I can tank anything while a sin cannot. (ya Wolf Emblem is nice too ofc, dmg-wise)

    OFC a max Build 5.0 r9rr dags sin can out DD me without any problem. Not denying that. any r9rr dag sin with even just 4.0 can out dd me..while the difference then isn't as big as one would think. Still if you count in all points while soloing bosses ( dmg, time, comfort, safety, charm, aso) then aps barbs are far superior. Sins can reach way more dmg, but they can never reach the comfort and survivability.


    Oh ok, now I see what ya meant initially, and what you've said here is true... b:victory

  • Sinclere - Sanctuary
    Sinclere - Sanctuary Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Sins can reach way more dmg, but they can never reach the comfort and survivability.
    4.0 R9r3 sin, 15k hp, 17-20k pdef, solo 3-3 with no charm or hp food. Gear was farmed not bought (solo'ing TT's on my bm).
    Although, I haven't checked my stats in awhile fully buffed so they're most likely higher.
    APS Barbs got the most Potential for Farming and that is a undeniable truth.
    I am currently at a phys attack around 29-32,5k triple Sparked with claws @663 Str. Thats without Bloodrush. No average G16 sin can Out DD me. I only fall pray to r9 dags with r8r and especially with att-lvl gems.

    If you'd like to argue that on a 350m budget a barb is a better farming toon than a sin with an equivalent budget, that's fair to say. When you talk about potential however, you're talking about end game. End game, sins are the best for farming, between stealthing, teleporting, and the damage output, and aps barb doesn't match. Especially with cards coming in to play, survivability is a non issue. Primal passives are bringing sins close to 70% crit if not higher with the added dex from reawakening. It's great that you've decided to play an aps barb to r9, but that doesn't automatically make you the greatest at all aspects of the game. While at the middle to high level gear, sure a barb can farm better than a sin more comfortably but potential? End game? Not even close. TT is a joke, survivability even in 3-3 isn't a factor end game. I would know since during 2x I run about 30 of them a day solo without a charm.

    EDIT: Missed this quote
    Still if you count in all points while soloing bosses ( dmg, time, comfort, safety, charm, aso) then aps barbs are far superior. Sins can reach way more dmg, but they can never reach the comfort and survivability.

    No.
  • Joe - Morai
    Joe - Morai Posts: 1,299 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    guys...dont just pick out a few lines from me and quote me on it...you have to read the whole thing and I really have to explain it all I guess...well Nah I won't.

    what is your problem? do you really think a sin on a 500m bidget can tank anything just like that? No. Will an equivalent APS Barb be able to tank more? Yes ofc. You all are so bound to dmg...idonteven...you know...there are some instance where triple spark + autoattack isn't enough. where yOu actually have to do something.

    You can surely roll a sin on that budget if you wanna stick to low TTs like 3-1,2-3,3-2 (partially) but there is more ingame then just these few TTs. you think a sin can tank a full delta on that budget? or tank a Boss in warsong? or effectively do PV, or full fcs? or AOE-grinding and so on? Especially when you look at flowsilver...who needs sins there? ai actually just take them along for BP if I'm going with a squad and yes, the most are still apsing even those bosses. Do we need even more braindead afk-apsers? No. Do we need skilled Barbs?! Yes ofc.

    A full +7 with maybe +10-ish weap Barb would be possible with 500m...A sin? nope because you have to get rank first and you will be very squishy before full +10 at least...and even then...no skill to effectively and surely protect yourself...so. Get your own picture. I went well as an Aps barb.

    Edit: Plus what everyone seems to forget is, that those 500m have to cover up skills and stuff as well. I got a sin twink whos full +7 aps gear with a +7 weap and some cards with around 11k HP buffed. Sage ofc. This sin can't tank anything, yeah its enough for FC, but it's not like thats anything to begin with, I spend around 200m on skills alone on my sin and it was a buff twink to begin with...so xD good luck with a sin for 500m.
    My Barb:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#146464

    My SB:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#141476
  • Sinclere - Sanctuary
    Sinclere - Sanctuary Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    guys...dont just pick out a few lines from me and quote me on it...you have to read the whole thing and I really have to explain it all I guess...well Nah I won't.

    what is your problem? do you really think a sin on a 500m bidget can tank anything just like that? No. Will an equivalent APS Barb be able to tank more? Yes ofc. You all are so bound to dmg...idonteven...you know...there are some instance where triple spark + autoattack isn't enough. where yOu actually have to do something.

    You can surely roll a sin on that budget if you wanna stick to low TTs like 3-1,2-3,3-2 (partially) but there is more ingame then just these few TTs. you think a sin can tank a full delta on that budget? or tank a Boss in warsong? or effectively do PV, or full fcs? or AOE-grinding and so on? Especially when you look at flowsilver...who needs sins there? ai actually just take them along for BP if I'm going with a squad and yes, the most are still apsing even those bosses. Do we need even more braindead afk-apsers? No. Do we need skilled Barbs?! Yes ofc.


    A full +7 with maybe +10-ish weap Barb would be possible with 500m...A sin? nope because you have to get rank first and you will be very squishy before full +10 at least...and even then...no skill to effectively and surely protect yourself...so. Get your own picture. I went well as an Aps barb.

    Edit: Plus what everyone seems to forget is, that those 500m have to cover up skills and stuff as well. I got a sin twink whos full +7 aps gear with a +7 weap and some cards with around 11k HP buffed. Sage ofc. This sin can't tank anything, yeah its enough for FC, but it's not like thats anything to begin with, I spend around 200m on skills alone on my sin and it was a buff twink to begin with...so xD good luck with a sin for 500m.

    You're missing the part where you claim aps barbs have the best for farming overall, which they aren't. I already agreed with you on the 350m or 500m budget part. As for flowsilver not needing sins, with the primal skill Lifehunter, I out DD all but +12 diety archers (although with good procs I can pull aggro) and I can tank the toad boss with spark resists. Not aps, in r999 gear of course. If you'd like to argue about a 350m or 500m budget, then stick to that instant of making mundane claims about potential, survivability, and endgame. Also, if you've yet to meet a high DPH sin with farmed gear that can tank any flowsilver boss, hi, nice to meet you.

    Edit: I should mention, my aps set is +10 for TT farming, and my r9r3 set, farmed of course; is for tw/nw/flowsilver (with chill of the deep). Although, occasionally I'll wear my aps set for the elemental immune miniboss since it doesn't have the anti-aps buff.
  • SeverredSin - Heavens Tear
    SeverredSin - Heavens Tear Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    http://pwcalc.com/ab4a6668a0eaa6e2

    thats about what my 2.5 aps sage sin is running, 6k hp, slightly more dex from reawaken, but only lvl 93, can solo all of FF and 1 pull BR without a single charm tick. If that helps :)

    Also, easily obtainable with 350m
  • Joe - Morai
    Joe - Morai Posts: 1,299 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    You're missing the part where you claim aps barbs have the best for farming overall, which they aren't. I already agreed with you on the 350m or 500m budget part. As for flowsilver not needing sins, with the primal skill Lifehunter, I out DD all but +12 diety archers (although with good procs I can pull aggro) and I can tank the toad boss with spark resists. Not aps, in r999 gear of course. If you'd like to argue about a 350m or 500m budget, then stick to that instant of making mundane claims about potential, survivability, and endgame. Also, if you've yet to meet a high DPH sin with farmed gear that can tank any flowsilver boss, hi, nice to meet you.

    Edit: I should mention, my aps set is +10 for TT farming, and my r9r3 set, farmed of course; is for tw/nw/flowsilver (with chill of the deep). Although, occasionally I'll wear my aps set for the elemental immune miniboss since it doesn't have the anti-aps buff.

    If you actually know what you do and go full r9rr then I agree with you that your dmg will be amazing, especially with Life Hunter and Elimination now. Skilled players are always welcome, but thats not the point. At a certain gear lvl any class can do anything (although I doubt a Caster can solo fsp...but meh) solo.

    And ofc...at a certain point a sin shines over everything dmg wise...you know...there is one sin who got full +12ed r8rr with double -int boots and chest...maximum gear with 24 josd in his gear...unkillable PvE-wise and deals DMG far beyond the scope (ofc less then full r9rr ones, but with aps ofc due to 5.0). TBH if I had such a sin with a maximum r9rr set to switch to, well I would play it ofc. The favor these days is shifting to aps again. You can get around 4k extra phys attack from double reincarnated battle and destroyer cards (+set bonus ofc)...there is no weap that has even that alone to begin with...so speed will matter more then before as ppls cards get stronger.

    you could count the cards into the budget as well for a farming twink, same goes for reincarnation and tbh. A Barb can lvl faster then A sin (at least on that budget). So if the OP wanna rush to extra stat points from reincarnation amd thus farming blood fast due to faster lvling...well ya (:
    My Barb:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#146464

    My SB:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#141476
  • peckked
    peckked Posts: 224 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I don't know what prices are like on Morai which is why I said IF his budget can...

    *Looks at +7 APS set* - how is it that I solo every TT boss with this? Just because you can't doesn't mean it's not possible. TBH, at +10/11k hp especially on a sage sin, you should easily handle tanking most of TT (even 3-3) without any skill. Just as I would get frustrated at the slowness of running an APS barb, I suspect you would have trouble adjusting to the edge-walk which is sin tanking which sounds to be the case. I will never claim to know how to play an APS barb, and you, sir, shouldn't claim to know what you're doing with your sin if you can't handle a full FC on yours. If you try to just spark and auto attack, especially with a sage sin, you're doing it wrong.

    Again, I don't know the prices, though from what you've said I suspect it is possible to make a +7 sin for the 500m budget. WS bosses and full FCs absolutely a +7 can handle tanking. Full delta... yeah no... PV... yeah no... A full delta takes a minimum of 90min and isn't gonna be soloed on a 500m APS barb. No one 'farms' PV and again an APS Barb isn't gonna be capable enough at 500m to try and sell runs. The reason that the focus is on TT is because FC is a cakewalk and the OP specified no others.

    I've watched while on my alt a barb (admittedly a bad one) go down at the frog, while one of these "braindead" APS-geared sins (spamming skills with chill) tanked for the rest of the battle which lasted at least a dozen more axes (weak squad). He had just over 10k hp buffed. I've tanked that boss on my sin.. It's not easy. But it's not nearly as hard as you think if you can pilot your sin well. I do agree on one thing you've said... we need no more braindead APSers, Mr. APS Barb.

    Two parts bug me about this discussion. First, that while the APS Barb is very much a valid candidate for the OP and what he's hoping to accomplish, it's probably not gonna be received so well when your misinformed comparisons force the focus of discussion on the APS Barb's shortcomings (which to you are apparently non-existent), instead of focusing on what it can do for the OP. You've tried to debase both sins and bms in terms of damage, then when that didn't work you moved on to what a sin can't do in terms of survivability all the while spewing inaccuracies and/or false assumptions. Secondly, this thread is supposed to be about which class would be good for the OP in TT and Frost. It's not about PV, FS, GV, your gear, my gear, and certainly was never supposed to be focused on APS barbs vs sins. If you want to speak to the merits of your class then do so please as I imagine you're one of those with the most experience with it and it will certainly be more helpful to the OP. But leave the other classes, of which you seem ill-informed on, out of it. You'll be doing the promoters of your build a service.

    Returning to topic and to sum it up for the OP as I see it if expanding to higher budgets:

    Low budget (+5) (Sin more expensive)
    APS Barb - Okay damage - Good Survivability (Crazy repair bill)
    BM - Okay damage - Good Survivability (High repair bill)
    Sin - Good damage - Questionable Survivability (Likely need charm and lots of pots)

    Mid Budget (+7) (Sin a little more expensive)
    APS Barb - Good Damage - Great Survivability (High repair bill)
    BM - Good Damage, Good Survivability
    Sin - Great Damage, Okay Survivability (Refining weapon ahead of armor at this point will free you of dependency on pots)

    High Budget (Pre-R9) (+10) (Negligible difference in cost)
    APS Barb - Good Damage - Amazing survivability
    BM - Great Damage - Great Survivability
    Sin - Amazing Damage - Good Survivability

    Endgame Budget (APS builds only - R93 where applicable) (Barb and Sin comparable, BM least expensive)
    APS Barb - Amazing Damage - Godly Survivability
    BM - Great Damage - Amazing Survivability
    Sin - Godly Damage - Great Survivability

    *All builds listed above can do frost pretty easily at the low budget. Below +5 a sin will have trouble staying alive soloing most TTs higher than 2-1 and struggle in parts of frost. Also below +5 damage differences between these 3 classes is negligible.
    **Survivability is your margin for error. Questionable leaves almost no room for mistakes, whereas Godly implies you could afk and a charm would sustain you until it ran out. At the low and mid budget you might give a sage sin a bump up in survivability.
    ***Damage - as a rough estimate add one spark to kill as you go down the chain to kill the BR boss. Godly - 1, Amazing - 2, and so on. In no way is this precise.

    -Edit- In regards to your latest post while I was making my wall of text - A fully jaded G15 APS sin is no where near as tanky as it's r93 counterpart. Far from unkillable. But yes would out DD anything out there so long as their target stood still long enough (not very long needed in all fairness) and didn't have bramble. Though I think the loss of ~70 Attack levels (chill and set bonus), ~160 dex (set bonus and equipment stats), 25 defence level and a decent chunk of hp/def going from r93 down to r8r/nv2 against a fully jaded r93 toon who didn't just stand there would severely hinder it's long term potential. The passive skill damage upgrades won't help the r8r's case either. APS in PVP is more or less a thing of the past at endgame. Ironically, it only really works on barbs and you better have him locked down with genie spent before attempting it.. fully jaded might be relatively safe in this case though. How is favor shifting to aps?

    BTW max bonus for sins for phys damage is 2.5k through maxed/2xrebirthed full nuema portal set.

    I'm curious as to why you say a barb relevels faster? Just looking for justification on this one as you could be right. But anyone with a decent set of gear can hit 100 pretty easily in 1-3 days without buying rooms etc. Keep in mind you need to hit ~level 60 before you can wear that APS gear (goes for barb bm and sin) if you rebirth at 100. Perhaps that is part of your justification?
  • Joe - Morai
    Joe - Morai Posts: 1,299 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I need to put something clear as it nearly doesn't come up from your huge wall of text. Being able to solo stuff on a sin always means that you need to be charmed. You can play as good as you want, without a charm you are never able to tank Emperor or Steelation, or even Collou when Purge hits as a sin.

    TT3-3 and 3-2 revolve around emperor (mostly 3-2) and steelation/Collou (3-3) as the hardest but also most profitable bosses. So you are going to tell me that you are able to tank those bosses? with 11k HP..charmless? ya ofc. Charm or not when the bubble from Emperor hits you you're dead, same goes for steelations proc. Actually my mistake was, that I havn't made clear that all other bosses are jokes to begin with and not worth the time of anyone to even mention. any standard aps geared sin can take them on.

    The major problem I got with your response is that while I never would doubt that what you'rr saying is true...well can you reproduce the victory over said bosses a 100% of all times you try them...or will in case of said TT bosses luck matter (lucky with procs and tidal etc)?

    Your mistake is that you believe the OP can just come up with a amazing playstyle and walk through everything like nothing. Thats why I prefer APS Barbs. you dont have to rage every once in a while cuz a boss killed you out of bad luck, because as an aps barb you dont die at a certain gear point. That means you can safe yourself alot of time and alot of trouble! Even with a low budget like this the failure rate is way lower with a Barb.

    To FC: Ofc anyone with +5 G15+ Daggers can kill all the most in FC with the right APO and stuff. But if you do a mistake then you're dead and maybe wasted lots of stuff. While nearly anything is trial and error...I would not prefer the high rate of deaths on a sin over a Barb or BM.

    Playing this game for over 5 years now and be sure, I can play any class to the fullest. But you forget the thing that the OP maybe can't. I kinda read through his lines that want as much comfort as he can get while farming stuff and thats what my whole statement was built on. Not walking on the edge of survival while doing anything and being in stress all the time. Surely that creates maybe great gamers that know their class...but seriously. If the OP would be one of them he never had asked in the first place cuz ppl like that find their own way no matter what.

    Even if it sounds a bit like I'm kinda angry, I'm not. I like discussions like that. Although I often leave things out while explaining stuff please don't mistake me for someone you can't do some things...I just forget to mention it or am too lazy, or both.
    My Barb:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#146464

    My SB:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#141476
  • ImNotFeelnIt - Heavens Tear
    ImNotFeelnIt - Heavens Tear Posts: 211 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I need to put something clear as it nearly doesn't come up from your huge wall of text. Being able to solo stuff on a sin always means that you need to be charmed. You can play as good as you want, without a charm you are never able to tank Emperor or Steelation, or even Collou when Purge hits as a sin.

    TT3-3 and 3-2 revolve around emperor (mostly 3-2) and steelation/Collou (3-3) as the hardest but also most profitable bosses. So you are going to tell me that you are able to tank those bosses? with 11k HP..charmless? ya ofc. Charm or not when the bubble from Emperor hits you you're dead, same goes for steelations proc. Actually my mistake was, that I havn't made clear that all other bosses are jokes to begin with and not worth the time of anyone to even mention. any standard aps geared sin can take them on.

    The major problem I got with your response is that while I never would doubt that what you'rr saying is true...well can you reproduce the victory over said bosses a 100% of all times you try them...or will in case of said TT bosses luck matter (lucky with procs and tidal etc)?

    Your mistake is that you believe the OP can just come up with a amazing playstyle and walk through everything like nothing. Thats why I prefer APS Barbs. you dont have to rage every once in a while cuz a boss killed you out of bad luck, because as an aps barb you dont die at a certain gear point. That means you can safe yourself alot of time and alot of trouble! Even with a low budget like this the failure rate is way lower with a Barb.

    To FC: Ofc anyone with +5 G15+ Daggers can kill all the most in FC with the right APO and stuff. But if you do a mistake then you're dead and maybe wasted lots of stuff. While nearly anything is trial and error...I would not prefer the high rate of deaths on a sin over a Barb or BM.

    Playing this game for over 5 years now and be sure, I can play any class to the fullest. But you forget the thing that the OP maybe can't. I kinda read through his lines that want as much comfort as he can get while farming stuff and thats what my whole statement was built on. Not walking on the edge of survival while doing anything and being in stress all the time. Surely that creates maybe great gamers that know their class...but seriously. If the OP would be one of them he never had asked in the first place cuz ppl like that find their own way no matter what.

    Even if it sounds a bit like I'm kinda angry, I'm not. I like discussions like that. Although I often leave things out while explaining stuff please don't mistake me for someone you can't do some things...I just forget to mention it or am too lazy, or both.

    And you continue to proclaim what people can do with a sin, as if you and only you are the supreme authority on what is possible.

    If you had focused as much attention on your sin as you have put toward your barb, and actually learned the class as well as we have then you would learn *how* to tank whatever bosses you need to tank. If you had actually read any of these responses you would see that some of us have managed to do what you say can't be done, regularly. So your need to continue to tell us assassins that we simply can't do what we do every day, and are wasting our time trying to do what we do every day, and will only wise up when we quit that and roll an APS barb is getting more than a little tedious.

    Yes, you can do what you do on a barb. Yes, OP can *also* do what he wants to do with a sin. These statements aren't mutually exclusive.

    Except for at least one person here.
  • DionDagger - Dreamweaver
    DionDagger - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,140 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    without a charm you are never able to tank Emperor or Steelation, or even Collou when Purge hits as a sin.

    Funny cause I just did it last week when i was farming mats for my alts. Colleast doesn't hit hard, it's his debuffs you have to watch out for, and with the addition of cards, I have about 6k pdef and 6k mdef without any buffs in aps gear, along with 10 def lvs w/o a blessing. A charm does add less chance of dying on these bosses but i know sins with 14-15k unbuffed in aps gear. Those bosses are a joke then. I only have 8.5k unbuffed and I find these bosses aren't nearly as hard as they are when you haven't run them. They hit hard bc of my refine, but they are soloable w/o a charm.

    One thing a barb does have that makes being purges easy on a sin in pve: Blood frenzy.
  • SeverredSin - Heavens Tear
    SeverredSin - Heavens Tear Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited February 2014
      I need to put something clear as it nearly doesn't come up from your huge wall of text. Being able to solo stuff on a sin always means that you need to be charmed. You can play as good as you want, without a charm you are never able to tank Emperor or Steelation, or even Collou when Purge hits as a sin.

      TT3-3 and 3-2 revolve around emperor (mostly 3-2) and steelation/Collou (3-3) as the hardest but also most profitable bosses. So you are going to tell me that you are able to tank those bosses? with 11k HP..charmless? ya ofc. Charm or not when the bubble from Emperor hits you you're dead, same goes for steelations proc. Actually my mistake was, that I havn't made clear that all other bosses are jokes to begin with and not worth the time of anyone to even mention. any standard aps geared sin can take them on.

      The major problem I got with your response is that while I never would doubt that what you'rr saying is true...well can you reproduce the victory over said bosses a 100% of all times you try them...or will in case of said TT bosses luck matter (lucky with procs and tidal etc)?

      Your mistake is that you believe the OP can just come up with a amazing playstyle and walk through everything like nothing. Thats why I prefer APS Barbs. you dont have to rage every once in a while cuz a boss killed you out of bad luck, because as an aps barb you dont die at a certain gear point. That means you can safe yourself alot of time and alot of trouble! Even with a low budget like this the failure rate is way lower with a Barb.

      To FC: Ofc anyone with +5 G15+ Daggers can kill all the most in FC with the right APO and stuff. But if you do a mistake then you're dead and maybe wasted lots of stuff. While nearly anything is trial and error...I would not prefer the high rate of deaths on a sin over a Barb or BM.

      Playing this game for over 5 years now and be sure, I can play any class to the fullest. But you forget the thing that the OP maybe can't. I kinda read through his lines that want as much comfort as he can get while farming stuff and thats what my whole statement was built on. Not walking on the edge of survival while doing anything and being in stress all the time. Surely that creates maybe great gamers that know their class...but seriously. If the OP would be one of them he never had asked in the first place cuz ppl like that find their own way no matter what.

      Even if it sounds a bit like I'm kinda angry, I'm not. I like discussions like that. Although I often leave things out while explaining stuff please don't mistake me for someone you can't do some things...I just forget to mention it or am too lazy, or both.

      I can do it with the build I posted with just 1 dew of protection and just my bp. No other buffs and no charm ticks. Easily done with about 10 seconds worth of time left for mistakes. Please don't say other people can't do something because you can't. If you know your char. You can do more than you think.