Who wins in Psy vs. Seeker/Wizard?

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  • Euthymius - Heavens Tear
    Euthymius - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,162 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    trands wrote: »
    I was actually interested by a topic on the psy subforums for once and now there is this sort of "contest" b:infuriated

    In their wake do all things suffer and be swept away...
    Still, while I was interested in the topic as well, I'm not "endgame" enough to really contribute much to it. At the very least, it seems a few of us here agree that Wizards have some advantages against us.
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  • Longknife - Harshlands
    Longknife - Harshlands Posts: 4,843 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    trands wrote: »
    Why did this turn into an Adroit brag vs Cleric pride ? b:surrender
    Ofc, psychics are very much like clerics and we all know Adroit > > > everything, but I was actually interested by a topic on the psy subforums for once and now there is this sort of "contest" b:infuriated


    You'll notice I bowed out of the discussion when it went from "this is how I'd do it" vs "this is how I'd do it" to "it's clear you've never fought an experienced wiz before and are totally inexperienced and wrong becuz i sed so" from a person saying Psys simply don't have the damage output to kill them while using a full +12 JOSD R9rr character.

    Interested in productive discussion, not measuring e-peens.
    I <3 AGOREY
  • Aeliah - Dreamweaver
    Aeliah - Dreamweaver Posts: 784 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Generally I waste opponents genie with sleep. If they belief it off right away, then poof, genie gone. The alternative is to let me actually whittle your hp to half and stack debuffs then use belief... a debatable alternative, you remove some debuffs but you don't remove the healing debuffs. An acceptable solution to that is to belief > wizard heal, but that doesn't immediately threaten me either, so I think I'd have the edge if you did that. (Do you really want to risk having me seal of gods you after you've just used belief, with your hp still near half?)

    I made myself a new 94/100 genie that features an 80 str occult ice, virulent poison, and mantle ripple of death. I'm very excited to try it out against our server's best geared mystic (take your gear, plop it on mystic, and that is what our server's best geared mystic looks like). If a triple spark occult ice can beat a mystic, it should be able to beat a wizard too, so my theory goes, lol.

    About my combo being slow... yeah, of course it is slow. It takes a while to get the full stack of healing debuffs, and then whittle somebody's hp to half. It is predictable, you know what my general intentions are. But there is still the basic problem of stopping me from unleasing the combo. Particularly against arcanes, if they do heart of steel, I can do nearly-equal damage plume shots. If you use belief, I can clear the conditions for another attempt much faster than belief's cd. And if a wizard's play is all about dph, mine is, interestingly enough, dps. Do not underestimate a cleric's channeling! Especially my channeling, lol. When I switch to my nearly-complete channel gear set (r9rr set intact) I have 89% channeling with magic shell. I don't need 2 sparks to get sutra-like channeling, lol. I can get it all the time.

    Damage has usually not been the problem... for the really tanky arcanes, the problem is how to control my enemy after I break my own sleep. Wizard ports, mystic heals, veno runs away. My hope is that occult ice may be able to help. I look forward to testing it!

    Oh, about the whole purifying undine strike thing... it really does work, because I can gain chi back faster than you can (either through faster channeling, wield thunder procs, or because I can gain chi while you are stuck in sleep/seal of gods).

    I don't actually need to purify back to back; usually purify > skill > purify > skill works. Why? If you really just spamming undine, then you aren't hitting me with real damage, so I can save my purify for when you are channeling a skill after you think you've gotten a successful undine on me. Bonus points if I randomly remove spark debuff from genie, even if I didn't know it was coming (seen this happen a lot). If you do a sleep or seal instead, I have time to react again, and also, I'll probably be at full hp nearly the entire fight.

    When fighting anybody really tough, my basic strategy boils down to cycling between purify, elven boon, and my 2 healing debuffs, with some vanguard spirit, magic shell, wield thunder for chi purposes, and pious blessings mixed in. This keeps my hp full while simultaneously whittling yours down AND applying healing debuff. This is an elegant way to address the problem of my 'slow' combo: defense and offense at the same time.

    There are a couple ways to address my combo. You ignore your own defense, and try to hammer through my hp faster than I can recover it with my healing debuffs. Or, you could carefully remove all of my healing debuff stacks with your own heal, while severely limiting your chance of creating an opening against me. In option 1, yeah, we can both kill each other. In option 2, the likely result is a draw, according to the fights I've had against my server's wizard, who uses this style.
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  • Yama_inu - Lost City
    Yama_inu - Lost City Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Without having considered all matters of playstyle, how would one make such a generalization?

    I think we should do Longknife vs Adroit and see who wins.
    I play both servers.... Longknife is a great player... but my money would be on adroit....
  • Longknife - Harshlands
    Longknife - Harshlands Posts: 4,843 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Yama_inu - Lost City wrote: »
    Longknife is a great player

    I have a r9rr +12 JOSD mouth. b:cute
    I <3 AGOREY
  • w34kd0g
    w34kd0g Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    In a situation where you had two players of equal skill, and equal fully endgame gear. The wizard would beat the psy the vast majority of times.

    Nope. A good psy will beat the wizard if he's able to resist spark with SoF.

    I'm actually surprised how many ppl say that the wizard would faceroll the psy, in white voodoo spark isn't really that dangerous, the wizard needs to waste his genie to even attack a psy and sage psys got 2 purifies. The fight overall is pretty *** because a psy won't really hit hard on a wizard but still. Psys can avoid getting sparked easily
  • Longknife - Harshlands
    Longknife - Harshlands Posts: 4,843 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    w34kd0g wrote: »
    Nope. A good psy will beat the wizard if he's able to resist spark with SoF.

    I'm actually surprised how many ppl say that the wizard would faceroll the psy, in white voodoo spark isn't really that dangerous, the wizard needs to waste his genie to even attack a psy and sage psys got 2 purifies. The fight overall is pretty *** because a psy won't really hit hard on a wizard but still. Psys can avoid getting sparked easily


    Well admittedly, this entire discussion needs to be put on hold due to the new skills released.

    I do know already that the new Frozen Flame wizzies get at least makes the fight drag out longer (significantly, that thing stuns. :c ) and you gotta consider both classes are getting 10% extra crit and 20% extra damage. Meanwhile, Psys skill upgrades are literally double the additional damage on all their most spammable skills. So all of those could make a difference for either side; went several rounds with several different wizzies and you'd be surprised how many fights end due to a crit from Crystal Light or Glacial. (or hell, even Red Tide can be useful specifically in 1v1 vs wiz if you think the two sparks will afford you a charm bypass, though now it looks like Glacial will make Red Tide completely and utterly worthless (again))
    I <3 AGOREY
  • Euzebe - Sanctuary
    Euzebe - Sanctuary Posts: 230 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    lol yeah, Glacial Shards hits harder than Red Tide for 0 sparks. Time for them to make Red Tide physical damage b:surrender
  • evolution1234
    evolution1234 Posts: 157 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    redtide is the most worthless skill for psychic. It is better to single spark twice.
  • Euthymius - Heavens Tear
    Euthymius - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,162 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Alpha/Omega Red Tide
    >Base damage increased to 10k
    >Bleed multiplier raised to 1.5x (1.7x Omega ver.) your soulforce
    >Deals Physical damage
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  • Euzebe - Sanctuary
    Euzebe - Sanctuary Posts: 230 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    LOL mail the devs with that suggestion
  • Euthymius - Heavens Tear
    Euthymius - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,162 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Euzebe - Sanctuary wrote: »
    LOL mail the devs with that suggestion

    ...I can't into chinese, silly~
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  • Longknife - Harshlands
    Longknife - Harshlands Posts: 4,843 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    To be honest Red Tide would be completely 100% balanced if they just removed the 2 spark requirement. I dunno why they don't just do that since the skill is far from OP and the only thing that makes it worthless is the game basically says "wanna spend two sparks on a skill that hits as hard as all your other ones?"
    I <3 AGOREY
  • p0412402823
    p0412402823 Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    yes is true a psy can be one shot easy. but mostly on wat people tend to forget we dont have dmg amp skills but we can amp our chances in a fight by slowing stunning very easly silenceing. and last but not least reflect. such as sov. and soulburn then you got psy will if you know how to shift between black and white or use each skill in sequance pritty much we can win vs any class we can one hit classes less geared than us yes but one hitting a wiz with equal or greater gear is not posdible unless you zerk which you dont have. but killing them after a bit is very posdible .
    as for seeker if they land a zerk crit and have a high refine weapon they will kill us. but if ready is very hard for us to be one hit unless all our buffs are gone and out geared im just stateing wat i seen wTt i done ecc im a psy to and i have no regret ik if your careless you die. if your causiuos you will always come out ontop. put simply you cant be lazy on a psy
  • Shadowvzss - Harshlands
    Shadowvzss - Harshlands Posts: 300 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    i have no ideea how someone hit 10k on white voodoo psy when i do 3k-4k crit (non sparked, just udine and sandstorm lv11) with my 30-35k mattack and 120 attack lv....
  • Aeliah - Dreamweaver
    Aeliah - Dreamweaver Posts: 784 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Shadowvzss - Harshlands wrote: »
    i have no ideea how someone hit 10k on white voodoo psy when i do 3k-4k crit (non sparked, just udine and sandstorm lv11) with my 30-35k mattack and 120 attack lv....

    Ever heard of a genie debuff called 'spark' ?
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  • Shadowvzss - Harshlands
    Shadowvzss - Harshlands Posts: 300 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Ever heard of a genie debuff called 'spark' ?

    if u spark and u failed then genie is on cooldown for nice time also if target cleric buffed that still **** load of def, dont have effect the mdef from buff also psy useally keep AD for this times if was in white voodoo because u not hurt him that much for force him use any genie skill for stay alive
  • Alphaben - Raging Tide
    Alphaben - Raging Tide Posts: 226 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »
    Another? Well....APPARENTLY seeker is the most arrogant class since sin, and I unknowingly announced to seekers on my server that psychic was their weakness. I thought they'd say "oh ok" and accept it just as I accept being weak to clerics, and instead I accidentally threw every seeker on the server into a blind fit of rage to the point where seekers, to this day, hate target the ever living **** out of me. I'm constantly trying to tell them to accept it because this often leads to them targeting me in group PK and dying almost immediately, but it still happens to this day.
    A better example is one nation war where I encountered not one, not two, but three well geared seekers who all had something to prove and spent the entire NW stalking me and trying to kill me in a big ctf battle. I was ready to eat my words as they killed me thrice and got me down to three re spawns left, when suddenly I noticed that as I had three re spawns left, all three of them got tossed out of the war; collectively they spent 15 lives to kill me thrice. I killed them five times the amount they killed me as a collective.



    I can't help but feel like....Psychic is a class that one shots everything and gets one shot. We know this, so we only scoff and laugh at people who proudly brag about one shotting us, but obviously one shotting is NOT a regular occurrence for every class, so some see it and think "omg I'm good vs this class." And while a barb can royally **** up while fighting a class their strong against and it simply will not matter, psychic fights are fast paced and over in a split second, so all it takes is one fumble or screwup and yes, literally anyone can one shot you. This, to me, seems to be why these two think themselves strong vs psy. Seeker charges at psy knowing a one shot is certainly PLAUSIBLE, but fails to understand that for us, it's not about how much damage you deal, but rather how good you are at actually managing to hit us; something seeker, with its high spike damage, is downright terrible at, whereas a BM with its modest damage is quite good at creating opportunities vs psy and needs only to crit once for a kill, despite their low damage.

    I don't know about seekers on Harshlands but even in T2 I can put up a serious fight, really though it depends on whether I see a psy/wiz before they can charge a stun spell...

    If I can, voidstep+blade affinity+unfetter+archangels of justice (which have 2 stuns)+gemini pretty much destroys them

    SoV and SoS make it annoying to hit directly though...That's why angels go first...that way if I die to Sov I atleast take the psy with me b:laugh

    As for wizards...Unless they're guaranteed to 1 hit me and I don't see them, I can easily voidstep then pummel there hp before they can channel

    Elemental+mag shards FTW! Seriously though...I've had my fair share of getting destroyed by all 3...Way I figure it, there are OP people on all three classes. Even though they're geared out/have mega stats they could still make a mistake or not know how to fight certain skills and die
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