Question about stats....

Octarius - Raging Tide
Octarius - Raging Tide Posts: 89 Arc User
edited January 2014 in Assassin
Is 117 str still the cut off point for sins to wear my warsoul? Not putting anything in Vitality as I have 20 in there already and that's good enough for me. Was just curious if end game stats have changed or not. Thanks!!!b:victory
Post edited by Octarius - Raging Tide on

Comments

  • opkossy
    opkossy Posts: 11,177 Community Moderator
    edited January 2014
    Warsoul helm is 117 str, yes.

    But you could also save the str and get a G16 Nirvana helm which is overall better for you without needing the extra str.
    (Insert fancy image here)
    image
  • skaitavia
    skaitavia Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    OPKossy wrote: »
    Warsoul helm is 117 str, yes.

    But you could also save the str and get a G16 Nirvana helm which is overall better for you without needing the extra str.

    This.

    The cutoff point for str is 105 optimally.
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Skaitavia wrote: »
    This.

    The cutoff point for str is 105 optimally.

    Debatable.

    LA gear that requires 105 str would be level 101. The only armor we have with that requirement would be R9 and it's recast versions.

    And quite honestly, I do have a problem with consider R9 to be the "optimal" gear. It might be so in PvP, heck it's the best armor we can get stat-wise. But it's not like everyone and their cousin doesn't have a set of -interval armor for PvE purposes, at least.

    And of course, all of that it made pretty much moot with the ridiculous amount of +str that you can get.

    I consider my sin having 105 str to be a mistake, as the highest in my gear is 104.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Octarius - Raging Tide
    Octarius - Raging Tide Posts: 89 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Right now I don't have the funds to be able to get a G16 Helm from nirvy. Came into a bunch of gold at one time from a dear friend and that got me everything I'm wearing now. I was just wondering the cut off point for str. Thanks for all the replies!!b:victory
  • hypereccentrik
    hypereccentrik Posts: 529 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    So stat your 117 str for you Warsoul helm, then before you reawaken have a g16 Light armor helmet ready. So when you reawken it'll be like a free Stat reset note b:victory
  • SunDownXIII - Dreamweaver
    SunDownXIII - Dreamweaver Posts: 250 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I capped mine at 90.
    101/101/102
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Also run around as a R1 seeker named WildFireXIII b:chuckle and now as a Stormbringer named xGrimStormxX, and no I'm not Grim from Kindred
  • Veneir - Dreamweaver
    Veneir - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,541 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I consider my sin having 105 str to be a mistake, as the highest in my gear is 104.
    I was going to say:
    "...I'm just sitting here wondering why you'd whine about 105 strength for a helm, when the helm you're wanting is 117......"
    and then I realized you and OP were different people.
    Oooookay then OTL
    "Clearly, the only logical option is Squid." -Decus <コ:彡 <コ:彡
    I'm helplessly needless, and needless to say I owe you | Well I'd pull, teeter away, at the earth with my teeth, to touch your face alive | You lie, helplessly still | As your face falls apart | Well I can make your face brand new | Come take my hand and I'll take your hand | And I will pull you out | Into the sun.
    First fell into an army of noob mobs on 19/3/2009~ Upside-down fox and old-colour squid <┻┻~ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • DionDagger - Dreamweaver
    DionDagger - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,140 Arc User
    edited January 2014

    I was going to say:
    "...I'm just sitting here wondering why you'd whine about 105 strength for a helm, when the helm you're wanting is 117......"
    and then I realized you and OP were different people.
    Oooookay then OTL

    Because unlike Veno's a sins damage makes a difference, especially when soloing because of how BP works, and wep multipliers. That being said, 117 isnt far off 104/105 but it is noticable when you play a sin, even the 20 dex i got from my second rebirth has been a noticable difference. G16 isn't considered OP gear, and with the hiked up prices people put on WoE for decent refined ones, you end up paying the same amount for a G16 helm from scratch, I've done it myself.

    Maybe you wont understand, but on a class with a low damage range (about 1/2 that of every other class) a few hundred atk is a big diggerence in heals, especially when sparked. Also why pay even more money to restat when you get a better helm? Wouldn't the non-OP person have more of an issue with paying for restats when it could have been avoided?
  • Walpurga - Dreamweaver
    Walpurga - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,028 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    If you really really wanna wear a WS helm until you reincarnate....

    then here's a build (may differ because of getting less than optimal stats on tt99 and lunar cape)

    http://pwcalc.com/a34e55c7c92c697b

    without resetting

    http://pwcalc.com/9c37ba5456fb0727

    add/subtract str based on how much you roll and what your endgame daggers are (r9 or G16)
    Channels

    youtube .com/user/WallyPWS Active

    youtube .com/user/tehnewblife Semi Inactive
  • opkossy
    opkossy Posts: 11,177 Community Moderator
    edited January 2014
    *snip*
    You... didn't read that post, did you?

    Ven was just saying he got confused by thinking Olba was the OP and didn't want the str even though it was needed for the helm he wanted. Then, he realized they were different people.

    It had nothing to do with... literally anything in your response.
    (Insert fancy image here)
    image
  • DionDagger - Dreamweaver
    DionDagger - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,140 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    OPKossy wrote: »
    You... didn't read that post, did you?

    Ven was just saying he got confused by thinking Olba was the OP and didn't want the str even though it was needed for the helm he wanted. Then, he realized they were different people.

    It had nothing to do with... literally anything in your response.

    That was an edit. I posted my response before he changed it to say they were different people.
  • Veneir - Dreamweaver
    Veneir - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,541 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    That was an edit. I posted my response before he changed it to say they were different people.

    >: I was going to agree that it was more than likeily an edit since I edit things onto pretty much every post of mine after realizing I left something out or wanting to revise... but my post has no edit marks in it and I remember realizing 'oh woops' right before I posted

    But yeah I was confused for the reason Kossy said... it's easier to tell apart people in OT where everyone has a font colour and title and you know them better, haha.

    I do understand not wanting to add more strength on a sin, though... strength does nothing for sins (no claw sins don't count)... really, they might as well have to stat magic to wear their armour instead of strength, since it'd be just as useless 3:<
    You're right in that I've never experienced the effect of the bloodpaint buff firstpaw... but I can understand with booksmarts-like knowledge as to why it's useful.
    "Clearly, the only logical option is Squid." -Decus <コ:彡 <コ:彡
    I'm helplessly needless, and needless to say I owe you | Well I'd pull, teeter away, at the earth with my teeth, to touch your face alive | You lie, helplessly still | As your face falls apart | Well I can make your face brand new | Come take my hand and I'll take your hand | And I will pull you out | Into the sun.
    First fell into an army of noob mobs on 19/3/2009~ Upside-down fox and old-colour squid <┻┻~ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Oh dear, have I lost my status so much that I am now indifferent from another level 100+ Assassin? I shall proceed to angst in a corner. b:cute

    For the record, the amount of bloodpaint heals you would lose when going from 104 str to 117 would be extremely insignificant. After all, even without any gear, we're talking about, at best, going from 388 dex to 401. That in turns means at most 2.93% more dph and thus heals. For the record, that 2.93% amounts to healing at best 0.0879% of your total DPH. In other words, for every 1,000,000 damage you deal, you would heal an extra 879 hp. Meanwhile, dealing 1,000,000 damage would mean you'd be healing 30,000 hp to begin with.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • DionDagger - Dreamweaver
    DionDagger - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,140 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Oh dear, have I lost my status so much that I am now indifferent from another level 100+ Assassin? I shall proceed to angst in a corner. b:cute

    For the record, the amount of bloodpaint heals you would lose when going from 104 str to 117 would be extremely insignificant. After all, even without any gear, we're talking about, at best, going from 388 dex to 401. That in turns means at most 2.93% more dph and thus heals. For the record, that 2.93% amounts to healing at best 0.0879% of your total DPH. In other words, for every 1,000,000 damage you deal, you would heal an extra 879 hp. Meanwhile, dealing 1,000,000 damage would mean you'd be healing 30,000 hp to begin with.

    I still love you Oblaze <3b:laugh
  • Atropah - Sanctuary
    Atropah - Sanctuary Posts: 186 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    For the record, the amount of bloodpaint heals you would lose when going from 104 str to 117 would be extremely insignificant. After all, even without any gear, we're talking about, at best, going from 388 dex to 401. That in turns means at most 2.93% more dph and thus heals. For the record, that 2.93% amounts to healing at best 0.0879% of your total DPH. In other words, for every 1,000,000 damage you deal, you would heal an extra 879 hp. Meanwhile, dealing 1,000,000 damage would mean you'd be healing 30,000 hp to begin with.

    I think the issue here is less about dph or paint heals, but more efficiency. Plus, the 13 stat points saved isn't all. The G16 comes with 12-24 dex (25-37 dex total), and you're getting 1-2% more crit. Then he's gaining a couple hundred extra hp from refines, the +vit adds, and the 1-2% phys reduction. So he doubles that 2.93% more paint heals to over 6% more paint heals then he goes up another 1-2% from crit. I assume that's unsparked, but the crit increase would take him up sparked or not all before we talk about defenses and base hp from the G16 helm.

    G16 helm is hardly expensive, barely over the cost of the WoE if he does a small amount of farming. The Ancient Behemoth's helm is 10-14m if he buys all the mats, 250 cannies is a little over 3m, 1 EoD for 3m, 2m crafting fee. That's only about 20m for everything doing no farming but the badges. Sells the WoE for whatever he can get and it's almost payed for the upgrade with nothing else needed.

    He can even stop at G15, save 5m and having to farm badges, get better adds than the WoE, and save himself from having to put 117 strength.

    Price of a restat not for 13 strength is $5? On sale $2.5? So that's 5-10m he can save later by getting the better helm now.
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I think the issue here is less about dph or paint heals, but more efficiency. Plus, the 13 stat points saved isn't all. The G16 comes with 12-24 dex (25-37 dex total), and you're getting 1-2% more crit. Then he's gaining a couple hundred extra hp from refines, the +vit adds, and the 1-2% phys reduction. So he doubles that 2.93% more paint heals to over 6% more paint heals then he goes up another 1-2% from crit. I assume that's unsparked, but the crit increase would take him up sparked or not all before we talk about defenses and base hp from the G16 helm.

    Ok, I was going to avoid doing this because it's a bit more detail than I figure most people care for, but here goes nothing.

    For the purposes of comparing helmets, only your DPH is relevant, as your attack speed stays the same. Thus, we can look at the DPH formula to see how much we gain. Well, we know that the damage is weapon_damage*(1+dex/150+mastery)*(1+1.2*crit%). Since weapon damage is a constant in this case (as you are not gaining patk outside of the multiplier), we can ignore that. Similarly, we can assume Demon Mastery, which makes the actual formula into (1.75+dex/150)*(1+0.012*crit).

    From there, let's assume the minimum possible dexterity to maximize the effect of the 37 dex. 302 is what a level 100 dagger, such as G13/G15/G16 Nirvana, would require, so let's use that. Also, let's assume +10% crit outside of dex. That gives us:

    (1.75+302/150)*(1+0.012*(13+302/20)) = 3.763*1.336 = 5.027368
    (1.75+339/150)*(1+0.012*(12+339/20)) = 4.01*1.3474 = 5.403074
    5.403074/5.027368 = 1.0747

    So still, it's only 7.47% more heals. By the way, that goes down dramatically once you increase the dexterity. At 600 Dexterity, you're looking at 4.27% more heals.

    As for the HP:
    Warsoul of Earth +12: 2,260
    Ancestral Divine Hat +12: 2,610

    But then again if you're talking +12 refines, your HP is going end up somewhere like 15,000, at which point the 350 extra amounts to slightly over 2%.

    And the Pdef reduction is kinda redundant, as it will amount to yet another 2% on your overall HP.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Atropah - Sanctuary
    Atropah - Sanctuary Posts: 186 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    2.93% more paint heals to over 6% more paint heals
    ....
    So still, it's only 7.47% more heals. By the way, that goes down dramatically once you increase the dexterity. At 600 Dexterity, you're looking at 4.27% more heals.

    I was agreeing with you. Didn't need proof that we were right o.0

    I said 3-6% (roughly) and you said 2.96% initially and then 4.27% to 7.47% (as an extreme, gearless max). Wasn't arguing it, just stating there was more to consider than just the 13 points from restat because the G16 helm itself was better and offered further gains.

    I then argued that since they almost cost the same and the cost of a restat later is both bothersome and almost doubles the price that maybe we should be honest with the OP and let him know he should just go straight for the G16 helm. Make a Helm of the Pirate to wear for a few days while you farm the G16, sell it and the WOE, and you've got G16 helm with no restat need and barely any farming of costs. Plus it has small, but realistic gains. Probably only 1-200 hp at low refines, + some phys reduction, but he'll probably be under 6k hp anyways and 200 hp then is significant.

    I think everyone is trying to be supportive and letting him work with what he's got. I'm just trying to be realistic and honest and saying "what you have will work, but the best solution is ..." go with the G16 and stop investing into a mid level helm.