Wiz Vs Cleric

Breannak - Raging Tide · January 2014

Every blue moon I run into a good cleric on my server

Half way in the fight I' am asleep or SoG forever. What the best tactics of taking down cleric's? Other than not fighting one.

Walpurga - Dreamweaver · January 2014

swipe credit card, make 4 accounts with r9rr archers

log all 5 clients set archers in squad with amusing fac name and set all to attack leader's target

gg cleric

(idea stolen from tsyren's pandas)

Eoria - Harshlands · January 2014

Genie with Faith/Will Surge/Adrenaline Surge/Heart of Steel will prove useful.

Otherwise, just sit there locked the entire time and take it.

Adroit - Lost City · January 2014

The trick to fighting a good cleric is mostly just having a good genie (and you have to have decent survival from gear). Heart of steel would be extremely useful (almost a must have), will surge/adrenaline surge/faith are also good to have. Generally, the ep kill combo is to combine absorb heals and mark of weakness with sog/sleep, but if you can break the combo with genie.. they really don't have any other options (assuming you are fairly well geared).

So for example, say a cleric gets you to half and has absorb heals stacked up on you and then sogs -> spams a buttload of debuffs and annoying stuff, you could simply hit adrenaline surge as sog is about to wear off and throw yourself a morning dew to make them start over again. If you play right you should be nearly impossible to kill, and there are a variety of ways you could go about trying to kill them. Probably the easiest would be to poke them down near half and undine -> sutra + spark -> d.pyro.. if it crits, good chance it'll bypass.

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver · January 2014

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

So for example, say a cleric gets you to half and has absorb heals stacked up on you and then sogs -> spams a buttload of debuffs and annoying stuff, you could simply hit adrenaline surge as sog is about to wear off and throw yourself a morning dew to make them start over again. .

Assuming this is a pre arranged 1v1 type thing where you can arrive with the correct genie skills, the cleric could also do the same;

One example when you use adrenaline surge and start casting morning dew after SoG they use a lvl 10 earthquake, which 100% interrupts, to interrupt your morning dew and then sleep you after adrenaline surge has worn off and you are midway casting morning dew again (interrupting that) ?

or does EQ interrupt only work on mobs, never tested.

Dragslave - Dreamweaver · January 2014

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Assuming this is a pre arranged 1v1 type thing where you can arrive with the correct genie skills, the cleric could also do the same;

One example when you use adrenaline surge and start casting morning dew after SoG they use a lvl 10 earthquake, which 100% interrupts, to interrupt your morning dew and then sleep you after adrenaline surge has worn off and you are midway casting morning dew again (interrupting that) ?

or does EQ interrupt only work on mobs, never tested.

I dont think that any well geared cleric, who is good enough to lock you so much u cant kill, will have EQ on genie, even less level 10 EQ... it could hapen... but i dont see it as a normal threat

P.S: the log 5 archers sound as a better ideab:laugh

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver · January 2014

Dragslave - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I dont think that any well geared cleric, who is good enough to lock you so much u cant kill, will have EQ on genie, even less level 10 EQ... it could hapen... but i dont see it as a normal threat

P.S: the log 5 archers sound as a better ideab:laugh

Hence the part about bringing a specific genie for that class. Also assuming equal gears here; Adroit would smoke practically every cleric on DW.

Do you have adrenaline surge on your current genie then

Eoria - Harshlands · January 2014

tbh, mage vs. cleric is still very much in the cleric's favor even if you do have proper genie setup on mage.

Adroit - Lost City · January 2014

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

tbh, mage vs. cleric is still very much in the cleric's favor even if you do have proper genie setup on mage.

I disagree, the cleric kill combo is extremely effective against squishy targets.. but when you find someone that can comfortably tank through the combo (very possible at end game), the cleric ends up with essentially no way to kill their opponent. When you are required to do something like triple spark to get enough dmg to finish an opponent.. and you don't have unlimited chi like a sin, it is very easy to just save counters for triple spark and never die. Clerics are still very difficult to kill, but wizards at least have some things they can try that will kill the ep eventually.

Your post is actually correct pre-end game, but I think things change with maxed gear :P

Eoria - Harshlands · January 2014

This may be true. I never did experiment with cleric 1v1 on those you-know-what servers with max gear and a cleric's major problem in 1v1 pk prior to UV mode being implemented was a lack of DD power to kill anything really tanky unless we trip spark (which...we still have problems with barbs to the point of it being nigh impossible and such even now).

However, I'm gonna assume OP is like an average gear of say r9rr with +10 armor/+10 to +12 wep and g9 or g10 shards...in which case, yeah. There's not much they can do.

Burnout - Harshlands · January 2014

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

I disagree, the cleric kill combo is extremely effective against squishy targets.. but when you find someone that can comfortably tank through the combo (very possible at end game), the cleric ends up with essentially no way to kill their opponent. When you are required to do something like triple spark to get enough dmg to finish an opponent.. and you don't have unlimited chi like a sin, it is very easy to just save counters for triple spark and never die. Clerics are still very difficult to kill, but wizards at least have some things they can try that will kill the ep eventually.

Your post is actually correct pre-end game, but I think things change with maxed gear :P

Balance right now is a bit skewed imo, due to most classes already being reborn twice for 100-150 more skill points, as well as the skill damage passives. Mystics and clerics are definitely strong now, but IMO once everyone has their 54% defense passive maxed clerics/mystics' lack of "true dps-level" damage will start to matter more.

True DPS classes won't care as much because they'll still have the burst/sustain to kill tankier targets.

Breannak - Raging Tide · January 2014

K seems like I need to work on a cleric genie! Ty Adroit, Eoria

@Reply above huh?????

sha2ow · January 2014

Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »

Balance right now is a bit skewed imo, due to most classes already being reborn twice for 100-150 more skill points, as well as the skill damage passives. Mystics and clerics are definitely strong now, but IMO once everyone has their 54% defense passive maxed clerics/mystics' lack of "true dps-level" damage will start to matter more.

True DPS classes won't care as much because they'll still have the burst/sustain to kill tankier targets.

Amen to that .

Dalamaar - Heavens Tear · February 2014

The way I try to take out a cleric with good results is to use the wizards version of a stun lock. I use sporific whisper ASAP. Has no channel so it will cast faster then the cleric can sleep me. Once he is asleep I hit with the seal skill (forget the name right now) so they can't sleep me and then go into a sutra combo. You have about 5 secs to kill him before he can do anything so make sure it counts. If you got full chi I try to do :

Sleep>Seal>Sutra>Devine Pyro>Blade Tempest>Whatever you like.

My hope is the devine hit hard so they are down to 55-70% hp and the Blade Tempest with physical damage does enough to break through the charm.

When this works it feels so good to use a "stun lock" on a cleric after all the times they did it to me. That and watching a cleric fall within 10 secs of engaging the fight just brings a smile to my face.

Eoria - Harshlands · February 2014

If they AD, your entire combo just failed and you just wasted a bunch of sparks for nothing. Well, I guess you put AD in CD, but you'll likely end up locked and killed afterwards.

Alternatively, if they know BT is coming, they can expel using the seal off of your FoW and null the phys damage part of it.

Kevyy - Harshlands · February 2014

you're better off fighting them in the air for half damage.

Aeliah - Dreamweaver · February 2014

Ah Adroit... you are right but not right.

I already ran into all the problems you've talked about already fighting my server's best-geared wizard. The way I end up killing the top-geared wizard is essentially the same way I end up killing anybody really well geared---I take big risks with my genie and chi while executing a mean sleep/seal lock, and keep my hp full at all times.

For example, to kill you, some of the risks I would likely take would include:

-using my channeling gear to generate insane dps; plume shell and vanguard to avoid blade tempest
-my 80 strength tangling mire/occult ice genie combined with double or triple spark to provide a really powerful magical shackles debuff
-white tea to generate multiple triple sparks back to back

And while a cleric's dps might have once been lacking, this is certainly not the case anymore. The new great cyclone (no cd in violet dance) has vastly increase our dps. My dps is on par with psychics in black voodoo when I use magic shell before spamming great cyclone.

I see some interesting opportunities for wizards in many 1vs1 with the use of new barriers. However, against clerics, switching out of stone barrier would be suicidal. You are at such a high risk of getting caught in a seal or sleep when a different barrier in, and then you would be highly vulnerable to plume shots. Remember, without stone barrier in, wizards are even squishier to physical attacks than psychics are (psychics at least always have a chance to seal, but wizards don't get that), and while the 150-odd magic points from 2 reincarnations have certainly jacked up magic attack (harder hitting plume shots) and magic defense, they did not help physical defense a bit. I have noticed that since the reincarnations, my physical attacks hit much harder relative to my magic attacks on other arcanes, and this is likely the reason. (Whereas my magic def has scaled with your increased magic attack, the same is not true for plume shot, and absorb soul).

I've already seen what happens when a wizard starts realizing that my combo is deadly and they can't let me stack it up (which I'm constantly doing). They start doing their heal... which, yes, is a really great defensive tactic. However, some problems with doing this is that (a) I tend to gain chi faster than you if you are spamming dew; (b) you don't have opportunities to counter attack if you are stuck channeling dew all the time, whereas I can keep attacking until a sleep or seal is on cooldown. Essentially it turns into a stalemate, because of course I can't usually stop the heal, but then again, I don't have defend much if the wizard never attacks.

Another difficulty wizards have is getting my hp down to half, where they want to do their bypass attempt. Here's what a wizard needs to do to bypass (from what I've observed):

-get my hp below 65%
-have undine strike still in
-get off spark combo
-my magic def charm must be in cd
-spell must crit

There are multiple ways I can stop this from ever occurring. Firstly, by sleeping and sealing the wizard, I ensure that during those periods of time, my hp is full, and my def charm is used again. Generally speaking, if I have successfully sealed or slept the wizard, in the period of time after the seal or sleep has ended, the wizard is fighting to survive rather than to go on the offensive. Secondly, every time a wizard tries to undine strike me, I generally purify in the next spell or two. Thirdly, I alternately my purifies with healing debuffs. And finally, I alternate between plume shell, pious blessing, and wings of protection to block bypass attempts that occur fast than I can react.

The result of this simple defensive approach is that I tend to stay near full hp, with no undine strike on me, while I gradually accumulate damage and healing debuffs on the wizard. It is this situation that forces the wizard to regularly heal to clear the healing debuff. And the first time that the wizard stops to heal, my offense becomes that much more intense, because it gives me more breathing room to do, say, a magic shell for more channeling, or load up a debuff onto you and purify it off (something that won't be dmg that you'll negate in a moment anyways).

Purify ends up being the bane of the wizard. For a wizard to execute a kill on me, I need to be sealed or stunned while they bring my hp from near-full to around half, and have undine strike on me. This means you probably mean to combo together several control skills at once, and all is lost if I simply do a pre-emptive soul of fire until the control skills are done, and I can purify off the debuffs and heal myself back up again with elven boon or a healing debuff. One thing that a wizard can probably never do is dps a cleric to death; a cleric has too many ways to get around dps (heals, pious blessing, wings of protection).

In the last year, I've probably only lost to another arcane in a 1vs1 under 5 times, and never to a wizard. Interestingly enough I'll bet Adroit might be able to say the same. Anyways, I think the battle can go either way in a wiz vs cleric. A wizard needs to get really good timing/prediction to avoid cleric cc, and the cleric needs fast reaction times to avoid the wiz bypass attempt (though not as good as other classes, if they keep the undine strike off).

Wiz Vs Cleric

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