Tips for Demon Cleric in PvP

Khalari - Sanctuary
Khalari - Sanctuary Posts: 30 Arc User
edited March 2014 in Cleric
Wondering if anyone has any good advice/tips for a demon cleric in PvP (NW/TW). Anything to help improve survivability (since most of things I read for that seem to revolve around Sage Vanguard Spirit, and I'm not sage b:surrender). Any other advice is also welcome.
~Thanks
Post edited by Khalari - Sanctuary on

Comments

  • Kevyy - Harshlands
    Kevyy - Harshlands Posts: 213 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Sage Vanguard is no longer viable with today's gears especially with the defense passives. You can hit the pdef cap very easily. If you want good survivability you need good positioning, timing survivability skills, ccing any major dd's, staying in the air for half dmg and most importantly purifying.
  • Aeliah - Dreamweaver
    Aeliah - Dreamweaver Posts: 784 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Sage Vanguard is no longer viable with today's gears especially with the defense passives. You can hit the pdef cap very easily. If you want good survivability you need good positioning, timing survivability skills, ccing any major dd's, staying in the air for half dmg and most importantly purifying.

    'Sage vanguard no longer viable'. LOL. Nonsense. More correct would be 'with today's extremely high damage from archers with over 70% crit base, sage vanguard helps buffer against debuffs like tangling mire better than ever before'. Many classes have physical defense debuffs (barb, veno, blademaster, cleric, mystic, sage archer) and everybody can use tangling mire (and many do); sage vanguard is excellent at buffering against those debuffs. And while you might be capable of reaching the defense cap when fully buffed (cleric, bm, base defense buff) in reality do you really die in endgame gears without purge? Rarely. However you dice it, a sage cleric will often survive a purge better due mostly to sage vanguard spirit. Envision this scenario: you are getting ganked; you get purged; you put in demon plume shell; then watch in horror as your mana is almost instantly emptied. Sage vanguard helps reduce the damage you take a lot, which also reduces chance that your mana gets drained before your mana charm can tick again.

    Good positioning, timing, and ccing are definitely important. In small group fights, my survivability often depends on how carefully I sleep/seal lock the enemy's strongest dd.

    Finally, being in the air is a doubled edged sword. There are several good reasons to be in the air:

    1) avoid being noticed. Sometimes people just don't look up.
    2) avoid melee dds. It can be easier to put distance from melees by using the old fly n' fall maneuvers.
    3) keep up with your allies. In TW or NW, most classes move much faster than you. It is a waste of genie to constantly holy path simply to keep supporting them, and leaves you vulnerable to attack with genie in cd.

    There are a couple of reasons why being in the air is quite dangerous though.

    1) Purify proc doesn't help you as much. When you are getting attacked (by anybody) you can't escape as quickly because the run speed buff won't help you.
    2) If you are low enough for an archer to hit you from air to ground, it can take crucial extra seconds to fly high enough to escape from the archers attack, which I assure you do FULL damage if he's hitting you from the ground, whether or not you are falling!!!
    3) Barbarian skill can drop you from the air with Berserker's Rage, and also possibly one shot you if you failed to have plume shell/defense charm/vanguard spirit in, due to the insane 3x base damage modifier on Berserker's.

    Therefore you have to decide depending on the situation whether being in the air is worth the risks.

    As a demon cleric, you just have to accept that your survivability will never be quite as good as a sage. Therefore when supporting, you take more care to be away from the dds who hurt you: archers, barbs, bms, and assassins. (Seeker's don't purge, so they aren't usually as much of a threat as long as you cycle through your shells properly). As a demon cleric, you rely on your plume shell more than sage does, so you want to take particular care around archers and venos.
    YOUTUBE CHANNEL:
    youtube.com/user/csquaredcsquared

    CLERIC PV GUIDE (complete):
    pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1531411

    CLERIC PK GUIDE (Incomplete):
    pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=18027931
  • FistToDeath - Dreamweaver
    FistToDeath - Dreamweaver Posts: 482 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Sage Vanguard is no longer viable with today's gears especially with the defense passives. You can hit the pdef cap very easily. If you want good survivability you need good positioning, timing survivability skills, ccing any major dd's, staying in the air for half dmg and most importantly purifying.

    Damage is full from ground to air. Air to ground, water to ground, water to air, air to water and ground to water deal only 50%.

    My tip on improving survivability would be to have second wind on your genie, never forgetting your shells and, if you're running in to someone who can't see you yet, maybe getting yourself a stream of rejuvenation proc. I think demon stream increases your p.def. for 15s, so it's usually time enough for doing a bunch of stuff in NW.

    For TW the main tip would be to stay close to your squad's DDs and let them know when you're under attack. That helps a lot.
  • Eoria - Harshlands
    Eoria - Harshlands Posts: 6,118 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    have second wind on your genie,

    You mean AD/Expel/ToP/Fortify/Faith...basically any other defensive skill, right?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "subtraction has the butt of an angel" - Paulrogers
    I <3 Subtraction.
    /blatant sig copy is blatant

    105/105/105 obtained! b:cute
  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    never forgetting your shells and, if you're running in to someone who can't see you yet, maybe getting yourself a stream of rejuvenation proc. I think demon stream increases your p.def. for 15s, so it's usually time enough for doing a bunch of stuff in NW.

    For TW the main tip would be to stay close to your squad's DDs and let them know when you're under attack. That helps a lot.

    Agreeing with these.
    It's been a long time since my last TW, but I used to (and will still do when given the chance and/or have the time) to TW as a Demon Cleric. I also play Sage but I only use her for PvE now due to being on the same account with my Venomancer and having limitations (also I stopped keeping her up to date).

    I can say that Sage Cleric's defence/survival is slightly superior but that doesn't make Demon Clerics bad. Keep your Plume Shell up at all times and throw SoR on you once in a while, especially when you know you're going to see incoming attacks, use your seals to your advantage (Sleep/Freeze don't debuff you thus no time lost on Purifying self).

    I also like Windshield as a quick damage reduction buff. It's not a lot but sometimes it helps and it doesn't cost much energy. Have your Guardian Light ready to use, you should be able to build chi fast from healing, non-chi-cost Purify and buffing anyway.

    That's all I can think of for now. I'm not that good in Cleric PvP (other than healing/purify like mad of course) because I haven't been motivated enough to practice/read into it a lot but I've been also spoiled by my squad; they are good at protecting me and reacting when I get attacked. f:meh
    [SIGPIC]http://i.imgur.com/MtwcqjL.png[/SIGPIC]
    ★ Venomancer videos - tinyurl.com/k6ppkw4 ★ Desdi - Demon ♪ Wyvelin - Sage ★
  • Kevyy - Harshlands
    Kevyy - Harshlands Posts: 213 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    'Sage vanguard no longer viable'. LOL. Nonsense. More correct would be 'with today's extremely high damage from archers with over 70% crit base, sage vanguard helps buffer against debuffs like tangling mire better than ever before'. Many classes have physical defense debuffs (barb, veno, blademaster, cleric, mystic, sage archer) and everybody can use tangling mire (and many do); sage vanguard is excellent at buffering against those debuffs. And while you might be capable of reaching the defense cap when fully buffed (cleric, bm, base defense buff) in reality do you really die in endgame gears without purge? Rarely. However you dice it, a sage cleric will often survive a purge better due mostly to sage vanguard spirit. Envision this scenario: you are getting ganked; you get purged; you put in demon plume shell; then watch in horror as your mana is almost instantly emptied. Sage vanguard helps reduce the damage you take a lot, which also reduces chance that your mana gets drained before your mana charm can tick again.

    Instead of useing vanguard to counter debuffs. Why don't you use purify? also you can hit capped pdef self buffed you dont have to be full buffed.
  • Aeliah - Dreamweaver
    Aeliah - Dreamweaver Posts: 784 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Instead of useing vanguard to counter debuffs. Why don't you use purify? also you can hit capped pdef self buffed you dont have to be full buffed.

    I use purify if the debuff is strong, but I use vanguard if its not, because doing so saves chi and counters the incoming damage just like purify would except even better, and buffers against future debuffs for the next 10 seconds.

    Example: devour (50% debuff) ---> sage vanguard (100% buff) gives me a net bonus of 50% physical defense. I actually take less damage even with debuff on than I would if I had purified first, and I save chi in the process. The only case in which an immediate purify is preferable is if you expect to be purged right after the physical defense debuff is applied, because then vanguard would be gone and you'd still have the debuff. But this is rare, and usually I start with vanguard spirit, and then purify later on.

    Of course it depends on precisely how strong the debuff is. There are a couple of debuffs strong enough to warrant immediate purifying; for example, devour + tangling mire together might overwhelm vanguard, or the 180% proc (or 0 defense from old demon skill) from demon veno. In general though, a vanguard is preferable to a purify, given the chi sage purify requires.

    And this doesn't mean I won't purify though! I can get my bonus and purify the debuff too of course. And, while the chi loss is regrettable, I can purify faster and more frequently than a demon when the situation is dire (getting ganked by multiple barbs/bms for example, where I have a purify proc in but need to remove debuffs back to back to back to escape). Or: if the barb who devoured triple sparked, I'll vanguard then purify too to full protection.
    YOUTUBE CHANNEL:
    youtube.com/user/csquaredcsquared

    CLERIC PV GUIDE (complete):
    pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1531411

    CLERIC PK GUIDE (Incomplete):
    pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=18027931
  • Kevyy - Harshlands
    Kevyy - Harshlands Posts: 213 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Thats why I love demon so much no chi on purify is amazing. We can conserve chi and gain chi with ease now especially with the new wellspring.
  • Aeliah - Dreamweaver
    Aeliah - Dreamweaver Posts: 784 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I think demon stream increases your p.def. for 15s, so it's usually time enough for doing a bunch of stuff in NW.

    Sorry fist, its only 10s. Logged my demon cleric to double check.
    YOUTUBE CHANNEL:
    youtube.com/user/csquaredcsquared

    CLERIC PV GUIDE (complete):
    pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1531411

    CLERIC PK GUIDE (Incomplete):
    pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=18027931
  • freygin
    freygin Posts: 737 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    My cleric is sage, but if I were a demon cleric, I would use spirit's gift more frequently, it increases your matk by 150% (equal to one spark) , hence your heal will be greater.

    I envy demon cleric for that, and also the add-on for Demon Wield Thunder which reduces metal defense by 30%, if stacked with elemental seal it will reduce target's metal defense by 65%, that's greater than a wizard's undine with their respective elements debuff. More metal debuff, more matk, will result in greater damage. On top of that there is also elemental weakness genie skill, with 100 dex genie, you could reduce in total of 105% metal defense to your target, increase matk, and hit really hard.

    That's what I can think of if I were a demon cleric for being a support or going offensive.
  • Atropah - Sanctuary
    Atropah - Sanctuary Posts: 186 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    You can hit the pdef cap very easily.

    Theoretically wasn't the cap raised with new expansion? Any idea what new cap is? It used to be 90% and although it would display above that (ie Buddha's Guard giving 1000% more pdef) it still would only reduce 90%. Now I see they display 1/100 of percents and so I'm wondering if cap was really actually raised.
  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    It's supposedly 95% now or so I've heard.
    [SIGPIC]http://i.imgur.com/MtwcqjL.png[/SIGPIC]
    ★ Venomancer videos - tinyurl.com/k6ppkw4 ★ Desdi - Demon ♪ Wyvelin - Sage ★
  • Auerlius - Archosaur
    Auerlius - Archosaur Posts: 226 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    BEST ADVICE: reroll another toon. make a barb sin archer or seeker. everything else is useless.
  • freygin
    freygin Posts: 737 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Lol seriously, I can tank most classes 1 on 1 just fine, even those you mentioned, somewhat midgame+ gears though, you can watch extreme endgame cleric fights posted by others and see that cleric isn't that bad or OP if played correctly.

    Imo, as clerics, we're not supposed to fight other classes with cleric buffs on them, every class has its own skillset including a few skills for survivability purpose, so it's kinda unfair for us clerics to fight them with our buffs and stacks their survivability skills with ours, we're packed with heals, but they're packed with more deadly and some stopper skills

    - Bm with marrows and diamond sutra,
    - Wizard with spammable undine which nullify our magic shell, hence we're somewhat equal in magic defense, there is also Elemental Shells.
    - Archer with wings of grace / wing shell / ataraxia
    - Barbs with Invoke and Sunder
    - Seeker with Adrenal Numbness, Blood-Thirsty Blitz, Last Stand, Krav Maga.
    - Sins with stealth / tidal / focused mind / bloodpaint / blood frenzy / share the stealth
    - Mystic with almost instant heals
    - Psychic with Bubble of Life / White Voodoo / Psychic Will / Soul of Silence.
    - Veno with 100% purge, hp mp switch, metabolic boost , bramble hood, feral concentration, blazing barrier.

    Dunno if it's kinda biased but I think we're not supposed to fight equal gears of any of them with cleric buffs since they have their own survival skills and more damaging attack skills, with cleric buffs, they would have the upper hand.
  • Auerlius - Archosaur
    Auerlius - Archosaur Posts: 226 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    freygin wrote: »
    Lol seriously, I can tank most classes 1 on 1 just fine, even those you mentioned, somewhat midgame+ gears though, you can watch extreme endgame cleric fights posted by others and see that cleric isn't that bad or OP if played correctly.

    Imo, as clerics, we're not supposed to fight other classes with cleric buffs on them, every class has its own skillset including a few skills for survivability purpose, so it's kinda unfair for us clerics to fight them with our buffs and stacks their survivability skills with ours, we're packed with heals, but they're packed with more deadly and some stopper skills

    - Bm with marrows and diamond sutra,
    - Wizard with spammable undine which nullify our magic shell, hence we're somewhat equal in magic defense, there is also Elemental Shells.
    - Archer with wings of grace / wing shell / ataraxia
    - Barbs with Invoke and Sunder
    - Seeker with Adrenal Numbness, Blood-Thirsty Blitz, Last Stand, Krav Maga.
    - Sins with stealth / tidal / focused mind / bloodpaint / blood frenzy / share the stealth
    - Mystic with almost instant heals
    - Psychic with Bubble of Life / White Voodoo / Psychic Will / Soul of Silence.
    - Veno with 100% purge, hp mp switch, metabolic boost , bramble hood, feral concentration, blazing barrier.

    Dunno if it's kinda biased but I think we're not supposed to fight equal gears of any of them with cleric buffs since they have their own survival skills and more damaging attack skills, with cleric buffs, they would have the upper hand.

    even w/o cleric buffs the four classes i mentioned will always have to upperhand over all the other classes.
  • ovenusarmanio
    ovenusarmanio Posts: 6,695 Community Moderator
    edited March 2014
    closed for necro

    kritty%20sig_zpsp0y7ttsb.png
    Thanks to MikoTenshi for the Avi and Kritty for the Signature.
    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
This discussion has been closed.