Why does everyone hate hybrid builds?

245

Comments

  • DionDagger - Dreamweaver
    DionDagger - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,140 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    If you're not a Cata barb, why the hell wouldn't you be a hybrid? It's arguably bad for 1v1 pvp, but if you have an extra 400 million coins to buy gear from APS farming, you'd probably win anyway.

    To be fair though a full R9rr Str barb can outdps APS in most situations anyway, and rocks in PVP as well.

    The dps isnt even close, you must be on crack. APS barbs will out DD a str barb with the same weapon grade/refine any day.
  • Salari - Raging Tide
    Salari - Raging Tide Posts: 2,102 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    The last APS barbs were from back when they had 8K HP due to using partially OHT gears and LA orns, not the 30K standing R9rr+10 vit stone monsters they can be today

    b:surrender

    I knew a few of those, sad thing is @ 101 with 5 vit you got 4890 with lvl 11 buff with no gear on. Most did that because "aps" got them in a niv squads not dps. its sad really, with veno + bm those bosses were/are 2 spark kills with just one zerk sin. The epeen syndrom was rampant.
    Marine - Marshall - Raging Tides - Retired
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver
    Yes, because people really need 900+ dex or 1000+ magic just for the lulz
  • DionDagger - Dreamweaver
    DionDagger - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,140 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I don't hate hybrid builds, but only for support classes.

    When I take a barb as tank in my squad I don't want a barb with 7k hp that get one shot and cannot tank. This is impossible unless the barb is missing peices of gear, my aps barb(this one is lv95 atm), has 7.2k standing, hishest refine is +5.

    95% of people that want a barb in squad want it for tanking and I didn't saw any APS barb able to tank. (I don't say it's impossible, but I personally didn't saw a single APS barb able to tank).I can also bet you barely see aps barb at all. Btw those 95% of people that can't tank should maybe rethink their class. If you want a barb that only tanks, specify what build you want in worldchat please.

    If a BM, veno, cleric or mystic is hybrid I don't give a **** if they can do their job.

    It always look like that people trying different builds do it on class that shouldn't have a different build or don't have the money to really do it.This is pretty much every player on PWI. Just like most pure mag clerics/veno's/mystics/wizzies/psy's, are running around with less hp and pdef buffed, than my sin does unbuffed. You only pay attention to the non cookie cutter builds, and say they have low money, when the truth is most players have low money. Also who gave you the right to say that a class shouldn't have a different build? If that was so, then the gear wouldn't be available to them. Don't use the word 'shouldn't' if you barely understand what it means.

    For the money: How many HA clerics I saw that say they use HA to have more defenses and survivability, but yet when I did check their stats everything was worse than my AA cleric cause they use lower gears cause no money.I bet they die less than your AA cleric too :3, but im assuming you have decent gear on your cleric because you also play a mystic, which is more of a reason to refine your gear. Next time you see a badly geared HA cleric, ask them are they a main, 9x out of 10, the answer is 'no'.

    For the class: Barbs are suppose to be made to tank, people take them in squad to tank, if the barb cannot tank than what's the point to go APS? No one will take a barb as DD in a squad.If you wont take barb as DD, you are stupider than i thought. Barbs can dish out a lot of DD, and are a good support class. The piont of aps isnt just tanking ffs, it's to kill things quickly, I thought that was obvious.

    So for support classes I don't mind, but classes that have a role to play and make a build that cannot fit with the role it's stupid.By that same logic, mystics should be healer or DD, the truth is they can do both, and it depends on the mystic and the situation which they choose to do. By that same opinion, sins shouldnt be able to tank, BM's should be secondary tanks and not DD, clerics should never DD, wizards should never heal anyone, a psy should never tank, and archers should never tank. Classes don't just do what their role says they do, they do what people make them able to do.

    The lack of intelligance in your post is sickening.
  • Jenaniah - Heavens Tear
    Jenaniah - Heavens Tear Posts: 135 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I wish PWI had some kind of DPS meter, showing how much DPS each person did in a fight, like game you-know-what.
  • Metalpuritan - Sanctuary
    Metalpuritan - Sanctuary Posts: 149 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I think it is stupid this thread is now all about barbs and APS builds for barbs. That is not what this thread was about, or am I missing something?

    I mean, think about it people, with this latest expansion we could very well see HA sins that still retain their, or at least most of their APS ability. They could replace their LA arms and boots with TT99 lionheart armor and then equip their TT99 ashuras ornaments, then replace the Vana pants with HA as well and viola HA 4APS base sin in mostly HA. If they can find a G15 set of daggers with dual int stats they can actually keept he TT99 Lionheart ornaments and still be 3.33 base and have very high Pdef..

    Doing this with the added stat points from the latest expansion, well, they can do it and suffer little to no penalty to their ability to do their job at all.

    I think everyone here is so focused on the past that the present state of the game is escaping them. The game has changed. It isn't like it was 2 months ago people.
  • Joe - Morai
    Joe - Morai Posts: 1,299 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Okay, so i was stood in west today messing around with some guys doing duels and such, and these guys came over and were making comments, mainly about my barb as its aps. Now he was calling me fail and that i wasnt a real barb cause i can use claws and all that classic stuff about why aps barbs are a waste of space. But then it occurred to me, i rarely have squad wipes i can tank pretty much anything without any issues at all, so why was i getting this much hate?

    And its not just aps barbs either, ive seen people telling other hybrid classes that they fail at the game too, everything from aps psy to HA clerics, but why do these types of builds get so much hate? Obviously they have major drawbacks which (i would assume) is noted by the person before they go for these builds.

    So my question for you guys, if they are not wiping out your squads, they can pull their own weight and are not impairing your game in anyway, why would you hate on someone else's play style? b:puzzled

    It is very simple my APS-brother. Simply because they have no clue at all about this game. They just think they do. APS-Barbs are by far the best farming class\build in this game. You just need some twinks for buffs and you're unstopable.

    Even in PvP, APS-Barbs are very powerful. No one ever said we are bound to the fists in PvP? I mainly use my axe there ofc. The bonus in Dex even makes me way more powerful then regular full str builds. while they even miss with Blood Bath on...I just laugh at them with my 10k accu. And if you're going the same build gear wise as I am (means 4 parts r9 and double -int chest) you still got 5 aps +the str bonus. I have way more dmg output then regular g16 sins even if their dags are +12.

    I can practically take on anyone in PvP with no problem at all. there is no build with more potential in PvE and it still got alot of potential in PvP. Don't let those nubtards talk down this precious build!
    My Barb:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#146464

    My SB:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#141476
  • Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver
    Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver Posts: 301 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I favor hybrids because those people at least have brain to think outside of box and they have much more fun playing game then others.

    Its easy to fallow usual build because its proven to work, but if you decide to build your toon with lots of experiments and different style you should care less what other people think and have fun with it.

    With todays gear and squads with 10 people if squad fail because barb is aps or cleric is ha the squad is fail and not that person.

    Next time check gear of those nubs and I bet you will see +12 r9rr weapon with +4 gear.

    Just have your fun thats all what matters and what game is about.
  • HideYoHubby - Archosaur
    HideYoHubby - Archosaur Posts: 995 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    The lack of intelligance in your post is sickening.

    Good, you saw the idiocy in your post too? I swear to god your post was nothing but e-peen stroking, which required intentionally misunderstanding some of the points you replied to. Not that I really expect anything more from you.

    Aps barbs had bad name mostly for idiots with ridiculously low refines - Saying its impossible is ignorant, period. Nor is 7k standing something which is anything even remotely competent - 15k+ standing and we get to the point where your average idiots stop failing too much. Granted meridians, avatars of war and all the other **** added since vana days, its pretty hard to have complete lack of defenses these days on older toons.

    I am actually surprised when aps barb manages to tank these days for few fairly obvious reasons. 1. sin with same gear deals distinctly more damage due daggers > fists. Not to forget how sins get to put far more points into damage multiplier. 2. Antiaps bosses are pretty much only thing which gets added to game these days - tanking with axes will always be better option, discounting few absurd cases.

    Alternative builds are weak mostly for the lack of gear. R9T3 is simply too much stronger to really have build which could compare. If there was alternative R9T3s, we could have different builds but as said gear is plain and simple stronger than others, one would have to come up with major advantage to justify using inferior gear. N3 on other hand is so much stronger than older gear while being cheap it kinda kills variety the same way R9T3 does, only on lower gear tier.

    Whole cleric convo is pointless - only works on low tier gear and comes with major cost. Unless you are catacleric of small TW faction, I really dont see any point for such build outside of laughs. I would also bet if we picked random stranger on the streets of Pasadena we would stumble on person with better grasp of this game than you.

    When barb is one of the weakest DD classes, with how average barbs are build the weakest, I would call it common sense to not drag a barb in squad when you dont need one, if you want that fast run. Also mentioned the direction this game is going - killing aps, making aps builds less and less useful. Funny enough the extra dex aps barbs have is prolly not such a bad idea with current gear standards with even robes walking with decent evasion.

    Last point, which you intentionally misunderstood, was bout how, for example, you dont stat DD with massive vit points, a gain which is most often completely irrelevant for purpose of class in squad these days. I dont agree with everything he/she wrote but your arguments are just so much worse with an ego to rival the kings of old days.
    I think it is stupid this thread is now all about barbs and APS builds for barbs. That is not what this thread was about, or am I missing something?

    I mean, think about it people, with this latest expansion we could very well see HA sins that still retain their, or at least most of their APS ability. They could replace their LA arms and boots with TT99 lionheart armor and then equip their TT99 ashuras ornaments, then replace the Vana pants with HA as well and viola HA 4APS base sin in mostly HA. If they can find a G15 set of daggers with dual int stats they can actually keept he TT99 Lionheart ornaments and still be 3.33 base and have very high Pdef..

    Doing this with the added stat points from the latest expansion, well, they can do it and suffer little to no penalty to their ability to do their job at all.

    I think everyone here is so focused on the past that the present state of the game is escaping them. The game has changed. It isn't like it was 2 months ago people.

    And what would be the point of HA sins? Meridians, avatars of war, sins get to the point even in aps set there really is no need for HA build outside of really low refines. Well more like any use from one. Aps set is mostly PvE set for TT and Warsong these days, not too demanding defenses required with full buffs people tend to run those. After certain point extra defenses become pointless.

    There is also key points wrong in suggested build - LA orns are plain ****, period. Even BMs use HA orns so they can refine p.def and use LA boots/bracers for -int set bonus. That also provides them a bit more m.def. Higher tier aps set sins dont lack p.def, its m.def they are hurting for. Also HA gear requires a lot of str, which is away from damage.

    I cant remember exactly where my sins p.def sits now after avatars of war but I think she is closing to 17k p.def fully buffed while m.def wont pass 10k. Hp was something between 16 & 17k. I suppose she is high tier farming sin but still quite a bit from top sins. W/o buffs she is bit squishy but as any farming is "always" done with full buffs, thats not too important. While more stat points means more room for such build, the instances aps set would be used arent demanding enough on defenses to really justify loss of 150 dex points.
    __Sami__ - Archer - 105/103/102 - mypers.pw/1.8/#132088 - Active
    HideYoHubby - Assassin - 105/101/101 - Inactive
    WnbTank - Barbarian - 103/101/101 - Catshop
  • Kijinka - Dreamweaver
    Kijinka - Dreamweaver Posts: 124 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    HA mystic reporting in.
  • bangis2010
    bangis2010 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    The lack of intelligance in your post is sickening.

    what would you expect from the great DionDagger. Give us favor stop putting yourself on topb:angryb:angry
  • SMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver
    SMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver Posts: 400 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    This thread again, always ends up in flaming people who want to be a little difference. I have said it many times before that the hybrid builds are usually not the most efficient way to stat your toon but are more than capable in doing pretty much everything in the game. For a lot of people hybrid builds are a project and something to have fun with. Not sure why this thread is so focused on aps barbs, I rarely see them anymore it is the casters that seem to be running around now.

    I have been HA cleric from level one and would never change, even knowing that r9rr outshines it in most aspects. As with everything else it is often the player not knowing what they are doing that makes the difference, sadly gear plays too much of a role these days.

    There are a number of very well geared HA casters on DW that do extremely well, 30k HP cleric, 27k HP mystic and my lowely unfinished cleric with only 23k HP b:surrender Not designed for killing but still do extremely well in pve and pvp.

    With the extra stat points from reincarnation there are many options now out there. I have played around with using a purge pole and always have a set of axes for the show.
  • Jadsia - Lost City
    Jadsia - Lost City Posts: 1,322 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    What it comes down to is if a person likes the way they made their character and can play that character well enough to benefit any squad they participate in and/or play it well solo then who really gives a damn about what anyone else thinks about it.
    I **** bigger than you...

    Shut up and play the game.....Damn
  • Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear
    Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear Posts: 384 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    If a barb can't pull or tank instances, its more of a brain issue first than a stat issue. The traditional way of thinking about tank/cata barbs is pure vit but the fact is, among successful fulltime catabarbs, there are so many str/aps/hybrid base barbs. Its just that people don't even know about it, and just assume they are all vit barbs.

    Stats is not even in the main factors that affects the performance of any barb. An aps barb has to be fail at teamwork, fail at using a couple of barb skills, fail at basic chi management in order to be a fail aps barb. But any barb who would fail at the above would be fail no matter the stats distribution, cultivation, sex, apple, or oranges.

    The aps barb discussion is just another typical example of confirmation bias, whereby people only see fail where they want to see fail, instead of being open minded. Aps barbs are by-far more versatile in pve than any other builds (or even class). It take above-average patience and awareness to use that build to its full potential.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Vedovis - Lost City
    Vedovis - Lost City Posts: 942 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    The lack of intelligance in your post is sickening.

    Calm your chesticles mate, nothing was said that required petty insults.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    | Signature made by Fishy!~ | Semiretired |
  • Neferhotep - Lost City
    Neferhotep - Lost City Posts: 276 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Ive hardly seen any people complain about creative builds as long as theyre able to do their job. This is pretty much what i think too.

    I know HA clerics and have one myself, ive got AA,LA and HA Veno (and fell in love with HA xD), ive got a vit barb and a claw barb as well as a vit seeker and Pure-DD Seeker. And as long as youre able to do your main job, everything is fine.

    When im looking for a cleric, i want a cleric that keeps us alive. I dont care about the gear, the weapon or Magic attack. The helll, if he wants to use some Axes to attack the boss i dont mind either as long as he switches to magic weap to heal and debuff when its neccesary. When im asking for a magic DD i want a Psy or Wiz with magic weapon and not a wiz with TT99 dual blades.

    Same with venos, ive seen several AA venos who wont use amp or purge because they were "pure magic". While ive never seen a LA or HA veno that refused to switch to human form for debuffs or chi. There are some classes who really arent using the full potential of a class at endgame with the wrong build, for example LA wizzies or LA psychics what is pretty much because with a different build you often need a different playstyle. However, if they manage to do the minimum damage i expect them to do to be useful in a squad, i dont care. And most of the time they more damage than the rest of the squad expects

    Also, when im looking for a barb im looking for one who can hold aggro and survive. Vit barbs are usually the safer way to go, if an aps barb actually manages to hold aggro and has decent gear then im fine with it. And afterall, you can nearly always wear a 2nd set of gear with you if you think you might have problems, especially as HA cleric or HA Veno.
    I really hate the way PWE,Wanmei or whoever tries to put us back to the norm.
    Norm is boring. :T
    I like potatoes <(O~O)>
  • Domethies - Raging Tide
    Domethies - Raging Tide Posts: 214 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I think it is stupid this thread is now all about barbs and APS builds for barbs. That is not what this thread was about, or am I missing something?

    Quite right, i didnt start this thread as a QQ to get support for aps barb but more as a way to get some feedback on why all hybrid builds get alot of negitivity drawn towards them. I put a tele out asking for a HA cleric build and i get a wall of blue telling me im stupid and to just get r9rr instead.

    As for everyone saying everything needs to be at least +7, amour refine wise, my highest is +4 and the only reason my claws are +10 as they are a loan untill i am able to get my own set. Im not currently in game so i cant check for sure, but with gears i have about 200 dex 400 str and 175 vit, and can manage pulls quite well. Here is the bit i like though, when i restat, before this expansion, i only lost about 3k hp buffed, with these added points from the expansion i just threw them back into vit and im back close to where my hp was before. The way i view this, ive lost next to nothing and gained some base crit rate, a fast way to gain chi 1v1 in pve because less face it, besital rage isnt that good with one mob hitting you compared to full pulls and miles more accuracy.

    My toon aside though, its nice to see that not everyone hate a build just cause of someone else who did it wrong, i would actually try a HA cleric is all of my server was this accepting of it b:laugh
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Brillance - Raging Tide
    Brillance - Raging Tide Posts: 1,643 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    When I think of an APS Barb, the one name that comes to mind from my early days playing the game and participating in TW is MrSycko (spelling?). I remember the 'rule' being, "if you see MrSycko coming through our gate, he's going to Arma. Everybody run if you dont want to die." One could, if they wanted, claim he was a 'one-trick pony', but it was a very effective trick, lol.

    That was a long time ago. Even back then, APS barb was a build to be feared - at least in TW.

    I think mindsets in the game hold other people back from being more creative with their classes. That - coupled with a need to have a 'perfectly flawless' squad for almost anything and everything the game has to offer.

    There is also a lack of tolerance to even allow a new player time to learn to work with a squad and play their class effectively, no matter the build.

    Even in the real world, a lack of tolerance kills all creativity.
  • peckked
    peckked Posts: 224 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I've had the pleasure of knowing and squading with some very effective hybrids, and the horror of dealing with some particularly crappy ones. What I find makes the difference between the two is how well they adjust to different situations.

    I often ask myself (and those players) what they accomplish in going with their hybrid builds. Every hybrid build is a trade-off in one sense or another. Typically I find that most hybrid builds are created with the intent on improving their capabilities while alone. In this, they excel. They address a weakness of their class and find the means to compensate like an APS barb increasing their DPS to finish off mobs/bosses faster, or an HA cleric being able to survive soloing larger groups of mobs thus arriving at a similar result. Some find that a hybrid build suits their playstyle better in PVP. It generally allows them to do on their own what would often need the help of others to do or do efficiently. The challenge of these builds comes when squad dynamics come into play and their choice to compensate for their class' shortcomings no longer balances with the sacrifices made to their stronger natural capabilities or limits their abilities in their expected roles.

    The pure builds have distinct strengths and weaknesses that allow, though often need, other classes to have a synergistic relationship with in order to maximize each class' potential. By approaching the game this way, each class can focus on their strengths without the burden of having to work around their innate class weaknesses. A barb ready to rip agro away in a split second from the squishy (weakness) sin allows the sin to focus on DDing (strength) instead of balancing agro, or a barb that is able to handle agroing and tanking a large pull allows an EP to forgo some defense (weakness) for faster heals (strength). A pure magic EP needs to cast less heals on a tank and therefore has more time to aid the squad in other ways available to their class such as purifying, reviving, and debuffing, without causing additional stress on the tank/squad.

    The problem that poisons the general community's opinions of hybrid builds is when they forget that in squad they're wanted typically to fill these rolls and to increase the overall potential of the squad. When someone world chats for a barb they're not looking for a DD, and when one calls for an EP they aren't looking for a tank. So long as those playing these hybrids can fulfill the roles which are needed of them then there is no problem, and often the fact that they're hybrids goes unnoticed entirely. On the contrary, when a barb refuses to put their fists/APS gear away for a pull and dies or gets the EP killed by focusing on a single target, or an HA claw sin doesn't start with daggers to rib strike/subsea before pulling out their preferred weapon to DD a boss resulting in the need for more heals, repairs, and longer kills, we start to see less synergy and a squad wipe becomes more likely; a situation which is something everyone notices and results in a lower opinion of these otherwise effective hybrid builds. With capable players using hybrid builds flying under the radar, most only take note when a problem occurs and they quickly blame it on the build rather than the players and their skill/knowledge of squad dynamics.

    There are, of course, situations where the hybrids are excellent additions to a squad. Extra DD is always welcome once a barb has done their 'job' as a barb or if the squad is OP in which case we just like big numbers and thank you for your buffs and your typical task as a barb is done, let's go kill it! An HA cleric that can survive long enough for a tank that has DC'd to return and then revive a fallen squad can only be considered an asset.

    The bottom line is that only the hybrids can make a better name for their interesting and exciting ideas among the player base by exceeding the normal players expectations, but before exceeding they must meet them. Afterwards be proud of your build and let people know of what you're capable, both in and out of squad. You might have something better then what's commonly accepted and I for one want to see it!

    As one final note, there is such thing as a fail hybrid build though exceptionally rare. No one has a use for an AA barb/sin/bm/ea, and APS casters, with no APS buffs (other than genies/pots) and smaller chi gain per attack, in my opinion, give up far too much to be more than just a fun gimmick in most cases (I know a veno who is a notable exception). If you fall into this category please, have fun, enjoy your build, and when you're tired of playing alone and once again would like to work as an accepted and contributing member of a squad, restat or make another that can be a team player.
  • Domethies - Raging Tide
    Domethies - Raging Tide Posts: 214 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    peckked wrote: »


    As one final note, there is such thing as a fail hybrid build though exceptionally rare. No one has a use for an AA barb/sin/bm/ea, and APS casters, with no APS buffs (other than genies/pots) and smaller chi gain per attack, in my opinion, give up far too much to be more than just a fun gimmick in most cases (I know a veno who is a notable exception). If you fall into this category please, have fun, enjoy your build, and when you're tired of playing alone and once again would like to work as an accepted and contributing member of a squad, restat or make another that can be a team player.


    b:chuckle Arcane barb? you mean like this one?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Vedovis - Lost City
    Vedovis - Lost City Posts: 942 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    b:chuckle Arcane barb? you mean like this one?

    That is actually impressive o-o
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    | Signature made by Fishy!~ | Semiretired |
  • Beleni - Dreamweaver
    Beleni - Dreamweaver Posts: 383 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    You get some fail Vit barbs, that cant tank and die.
    Vit build is not fail

    You get some str barbs that cant tank and die.
    Str build is not fail.

    You get some aps barbs that cant tank and die.
    Aps build is not fail.

    Dont matter what your set-up is on a barbarian, anything with 15k hp or more is just fine for anything PVM. it is the individuals lack of skill, not the build itself that is the reason they failed.

    http://s21.postimg.org/rmd5ok2t3/2013_01_15_00_27_52.png

    Screen shot of my barb 1 year ago running Solo TM:: 69 un charmed.
    Skill of the player > Build setup
  • Domethies - Raging Tide
    Domethies - Raging Tide Posts: 214 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    You get some fail Vit barbs, that cant tank and die.
    Vit build is not fail

    You get some str barbs that cant tank and die.
    Str build is not fail.

    You get some aps barbs that cant tank and die.
    Aps build is not fail.

    Dont matter what your set-up is on a barbarian, anything with 15k hp or more is just fine for anything PVM. it is the individuals lack of skill, not the build itself that is the reason they failed.

    http://s21.postimg.org/rmd5ok2t3/2013_01_15_00_27_52.png

    Screen shot of my barb 1 year ago running Solo TM:: 69 un charmed.
    Skill of the player > Build setup

    pretty impressive, so many demon aps barbs im half tempted to switch to demon before i get any more sage skills b:chuckle

    SMASHnHEAL, a HA cleric is something i really want to do, if i poped onto your server could i take a look at your gears and build for a few minutes or so?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Azura - Lost City
    Azura - Lost City Posts: 2,281 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    One of the reasons people hate hybrid builds is because this game iteself makes life hard for hybrids.

    For example, in all the rank gears, you only have one choice of armor: the armor your class is supposed to use.

    And nowadays almost all hybrid builds have big drawbacks. For example, the HA build in arcane classes needs a lot of strength, and this is stat is only useful for venos, but not that much. It's hard to stat, and if you don't have the proper accessories, ornaments, and refines, the player becomes really squishy and weak.

    So, in few words the build isn't for novices, but many still insist on doing that build, and they end up giving a bad reputation to the build. That's why some people are apprehensive of hybrid builds, but others are just always looking for someone to make them feel bad to boost their own ego.
  • Redmenace - Heavens Tear
    Redmenace - Heavens Tear Posts: 908 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    This thread again, always ends up in flaming people who want to be a little difference. I have said it many times before that the hybrid builds are usually not the most efficient way to stat your toon but are more than capable in doing pretty much everything in the game. For a lot of people hybrid builds are a project and something to have fun with.

    The one good thing hybrid builds of all types do is force the player to learn how to play his/her toon.

    I'll take that over any formula build and AFK macro player.

    \old skool barb that believes Barbs are for Tanking
    \\you're quite welcome to do whatever you want with your barb, except proclaim that any build other than yours is a waste of time
    \\\like *this guy*
    Dont worry too much about what others say. Besides plain ignorance there can be many psychological factors including but not limited to:

    -Hating APS in general because they blame it for "destroying" the game.
    -Feeling inadequate because they feel you threathen them in their role as DD.
    -Feeling inadequate because they can only tank, while you are allround.
    -The realisation they could have been so much more than only a tank, but its easier to trash talk you than to change their build.
    -The general human way of thinking: everyone who thinks or does differently is an idiot and should be crucified. Homosexual, Atheist, Christian, Muslim, Socialist, Capitalist, APS barb. Always the same thing all over the world ever since humans are there.


    Seriously, you're a Barb, not Jesus


    .
    A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
    Robert A. Heinlein
  • SakuLv - Dreamweaver
    SakuLv - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,400 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    These are some interesting points. In the past ive only ever had 1 aps barb solo an instance for me. It was bh51 on my sin and the barb came so close to dying from just 2 groups it was unreal. As for the parts that ive quoted, in lunar excluding last boss i can tank all bosses on the bh path in human form using aps, even without hitting i can withstand more than 3 hits im sure, and grats for your successful first tank as a sin :D

    Gear wise i went with the cardboard cut out 5aps sin gears, except for legs with are HA T2 instead of LA, my claws are +10 and my highest refine on gear is +4 and i can normally hold aggro pretty well just using those. However, if i cant hold aggro like that, i can put on my more tanky ha gear and go tank like a normal barb. i think this is the part other aps barbs cant or prefer not to do.

    In all honesty i only went aps due to the lack of help i would get with trival bosses such as, not sure on the spelling, bu lao in heaven or even the mutated bosses in the morai chain, just get a bit of bp and im good to solo almost anything.b:surrender still prefer squads though not as boring

    Edit:Misscherie, if you have a lvl 100 on rt id happily tank some things for you,
    barb as a tank is soooo badly needed
    seen ppl WCing for 1 barb for 1 h..and he gave up ..so if u reborn maybe u can go full HA g16 ;D..thats if u decide to do it
  • Fissile - Archosaur
    Fissile - Archosaur Posts: 607 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I had an HA cleric. I ended up going fill magic after rebirth. I am pretty sure I will be switching back to HA on the second rebirth. In G16 AA it has less than half the HP and lower defenses than in the HA set I made for HA alts (G16+10 vit sharded).

    For an alt cleric it is really great for dual client stuff. You don't have to worry about it dying if it gets interrupted or purged while on your main. In AA it won't survive 1 tick of bleed from the toad in Flowsilver and dies occasionally due to the mobs or water traps on the second boss. I could get better ornaments and refines on the AA set but it is a lot cheaper to use the HA gear I already have. The worst thing about it is poor channeling but you can work around that to an extent.

    Also it is fun to watch people freak out when they see a cleric with 20k+ HP. Can't really do much killing in PVP but survives very well. Overall very fun to play around with, but I don't think I would do it as a main (more because I'm not a very good cleric than anything else). I kind of want to restat APS just for the lulz ... I can always restat later.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Chuck_smith - Sanctuary
    Chuck_smith - Sanctuary Posts: 305 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Seriously HA venoes are OP, especially for nowadays with them NW tomes, and ring engraving and purify spell weapon. They can build what they want, glitch melee weapons in fox form and so on. My HA veno used to have utterly low refines and still tank instances with NP, and people were easy to beat via 1 HA VS 1. Really don't really believe people bashing on this build that used to try it, obviously never tried it.
    Sage barb in progress.
  • Markhor - Dreamweaver
    Markhor - Dreamweaver Posts: 86 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I have an LA veno (i'm actually lvl 90, for some reason forum doesn't believe it) and I just LOVE the build. I restatted at lvl 70 and do not regret it. For PvE, it's awesome; I have more HP and P. Def which gives me a much better survivability when soloing TT and general quests. In BHs (especially 69), there have been quite a few times where the squad was wiped except me and the cleric, and it was my job to keep the boss from resetting while the cleric revived and healed the rest of the squad. Granted, with my low lvl and gear (TT90 green), I'm toast in NW, but I don't like to participate in much PvP anyway...

    As everyone's pretty much said so far, to each his own. Live and let Live. Do your thang, baby! Etc. b:kiss
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • SMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver
    SMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver Posts: 400 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    SMASHnHEAL, a HA cleric is something i really want to do, if i poped onto your server could i take a look at your gears and build for a few minutes or so?

    More than happy for you to do so, I have had many people in the past want to look at my setup and ask about stating etc. The bit of advice I used to give was that there is not really a build to follow but that has changed a lot with the extra stat points you can now get for rebirthing. Jump on to Dreamweaver, I forget what server time I am usually on and I'm at work now so can't check. The other well geared HA casters on the server are Re_Animator (Full +12 cleric with all NW upgrades), Kijinka (+11/12 mystic with NW upgrades) and myself (+10/11/12 cleric with NW upgrades) all of us I am sure would be willing to have a chat.

    I do a lot of solo play and being HA allowed me to do a lot more than a normal cleric was capable back in the day. Before r9 was readily available I pulled catas in TW, was able to solo almost all instances and even soloed Harpy Wraith (not worth the time...). I wish there was a choice of armour type for r9rr though as sadly G16 is a bit short on the defenses at times.

    End of the day if you want to try something new and have some fun doing so then go for it. Haters will be haters.
  • Chigenkaiona - Dreamweaver
    Chigenkaiona - Dreamweaver Posts: 756 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    One of my friends used to be an APS barb around the time before Nation Wars....he never died the normal way. Ever. And he performed being a barb just as good as any other barb. He went R9 after NW was released and made APS farming in nirvana trash.

    Only time he died as when we'd fail to kill the foxes in nirvana and the boss started one shotting everyone, but that's unavoidable sometimes, as well as the final boss and he's boxes.