Clerics and Mystics

blackeroasis · January 2014

Okay now that Mystics have instant lysing and stronger a stronger dps skill which would be harder to fight in a 1v1 cleric or mystic?

Damage Potential:

I know people say clerics struggle killing endgame opponents is it the same for mystics?

Survivability:

Also are mystics still pretty squishy in comparison? I know for a while mystics were really susceptible to dph is that because their gear doesn't refine as much as other casters?

I mean I see plenty of videos of clerics and wizards tanking 20v1 in NW but I haven't seen anything like that on the mystic side of things.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Also excuse my ignorance since most of my information comes from other people in game.

Zoldi - Morai · January 2014

It will depend the class of the opponent I guess... and obviously it depends who is playing the class.

By the way, mystics are probably the less squishy class amongst all arcane classes. With their autobuff they have better wood/water resistance than anyone else and other elemental resistances are the same since few (or no) wizards use fire/water shields in PVP.
Besides wizards are the only ones who can have better phy def that mystics with same gear, but mystics can leech their summons to briefly up defense (mag/phy) numbers
Mystics also use plants to heal or reduce dammage received and they can heal themselves really fast.

The fact that some people think mystics are squishy is because well geared mystics are really a lot rarer than others arcane classes

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver · January 2014

Zoldi - Morai wrote: »

The fact that some people think mystics are squishy is because well geared mystics are really a lot rarer than others arcane classes

There are very few mystics that have good gear to survive endgame archers, and even fewer who know how to use their skills. All I see is triple spark absorb soul combo. No control skills nada. I'm pretty sure mystics have the ability to CC lock but usually allow me to kite freely pummeling them with arrows till they eventually get purged/charm bypassed.

I've even had 'pro' mystics use the push back skill on me. On an archer. Facepalm.

FistToDeath - Dreamweaver · January 2014

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »

There are very few mystics that have good gear to survive endgame archers, and even fewer who know how to use their skills. All I see is triple spark absorb soul combo. No control skills nada. I'm pretty sure mystics have the ability to CC lock but usually allow me to kite freely pummeling them with arrows till they eventually get purged/charm bypassed.

I've even had 'pro' mystics use the push back skill on me. On an archer. Facepalm.

That's actually a nice move. Raft used it a lot. Gale Force + Bramble Tornado to get you stuck on air, unable to do stuff during the whole freeze duration. It was very useful for her, since she's demon and demon gale force has a 35% extra chance of freezing.

Evryn - Morai · January 2014

Tripspark/Lucky break/bramble rage is an obvious peak damage combo for a mystic though. It probably wasn't for the push, but for damage.

That said, a mystic has plenty of control options:
- Minor slow in their basic attack
- Listless Blossom to put folk to sleep. Especially useful vs melee, just keep standing in the blossom's AoE, once your opponent snoozes you got a while to heal or set up for a very heavy attack.
- Cragger can be a major nuisance. It's fast and hits hard, and can attack independently of the player. Lethal against weak phys defense folk.
- Galeforce and Thicket can seal. Thicket isn't very reliable though in my experience.
- Healing redirect and charm cooldown reduction effects. Probably the most annoying for a cler, especially if hit by sleep or seal.

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver · January 2014

FistToDeath - Dreamweaver wrote: »

That's actually a nice move. Raft used it a lot. Gale Force + Bramble Tornado to get you stuck on air, unable to do stuff during the whole freeze duration. It was very useful for her, since she's demon and demon gale force has a 35% extra chance of freezing.

Well ofc that combo proc'ing on uneven terrain is a great move, much like clerics opting for immobilise instead of sleep in NW and then closing the gap, encouraging a 'leap if you dare'.

However I was referring to bramble tornado alone on flat terrain where I am now hitting for 100% damage instead of 50%. Bad move.

Zoldi - Morai · January 2014

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »

There are very few mystics that have good gear to survive endgame archers

To be honest archers (with R9.3 bow) are probably the class that a mystic should fear the most... I might be able to tank some deity ones if I just spam heal myself but in this case I need to be able to rebuff very fast after each purge and basically if I'm stunned against them I'm dead. So against that kind of archers, this is more a matter of dammage than survivability because the mystic needs to kill the archer very fast to get a chance.
But would you say that you have more difficulties to win against a cleric (same gear as mystic) ?

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I've even had 'pro' mystics use the push back skill on me. On an archer. Facepalm.

I usually won't do that because of the archers range and (against well geared archers) better run to him + gale force or stun/sleep in the first place. But this could be situationnal... In my opinion, one of the advantage of bramble tornado is also to distract the opponent. This is quite dangerous against an archer but if you have already planned what you will do just after (not just helping the archer to kite...) and use it rarely it could sometimes not be that bad

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver · January 2014

Zoldi - Morai wrote: »

To be honest archers (with R9.3 bow) are probably the class that a mystic should fear the most... I might be able to tank some deity ones if I just spam heal myself but in this case I need to be able to rebuff very fast after each purge and basically if I'm stunned against them I'm dead. So against that kind of archers, this is more a matter of dammage than survivability because the mystic needs to kill the archer very fast to get a chance.
But would you say that you have more difficulties to win against a cleric (same gear as mystic) ?

I'm 66% josd and 33% deity with mdef neck so even r9rr+12 mystics lack the dps unless they have heavy use of CC skills which I've yet to experience on our server, most of the times a mystic kills me it's a gank. Not trying to blow my own trumpet here, just saying I don't think mystics could out dps a similar geared archer.

Usually all it takes is stun after a purge before they can rebuff and the following autos kill them via string of crits or if demon QS proc'ed charm bypass.

This is harder to pull off vs a cleric, especially a sage one as they can usually rebuff vanguardian quicker than I can fire off a stunning arrow, depending on reaction time ping etc. That buff alone makes them more tankier than mystics from what I've experienced.

I realise either class could hit fortify immediately following a purge to counter the obv stun.

Also clerics have a failsafe in SoG which is pretty much impossible to react to, and you can only anticipate it, this sometimes comes down to knowing the player. Allowing them to rebuff/run away.

I guess my point is without utilising it's arsenal of control skills/pets/summons and getting in melee range asap and hugging that, a mystic isn't going to fare too well against an archer, sounds obvious I know.

Edit: In answer to the OP. The answer for 1v1 which would be harder, this still is cleric. At super endgame, they still reign supreme in 1v1 vs pretty much all classes except perhaps sins, where it comes down to skillful playing, luck, reaction. Tidal is the only real non resource draining answer to the infamous cleric combo.

Zoldi - Morai · January 2014

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Edit: In answer to the OP. The answer for 1v1 which would be harder, this still is cleric. At super endgame, they still reign supreme in 1v1 vs pretty much all classes except perhaps sins, where it comes down to skillful playing, luck, reaction. Tidal is the only real non resource draining answer to the infamous cleric combo.

I'm OK with what you said in the main part of the post above. I have already won some 1v1 fights against archers with better gears than mine but I would say that the archer will always be the favorite.
And since I never played a cleric in PVP, maybe you're right saying a cleric is harder to kill than a mystic (i'm very surpeised though)

But I beg to differ with the part I've quoted. I may be wrong but while talking about 1v1 between a cleric and a mystic for example, I actually consider the mystic as the huge favorite...

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver · January 2014

Zoldi - Morai wrote: »

But I beg to differ with the part I've quoted. I may be wrong but while talking about 1v1 between a cleric and a mystic for example, I actually consider the mystic as the huge favorite...

The question was which would be harder to 1v1 out of the two. For me it would be a cleric.

Not sure about endgame mystic vs cleric, sounds like a charm ****/1hr fight, I'll go with you on that one as I have no experience playing a toon as either class.

FistToDeath - Dreamweaver · January 2014

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The question was which would be harder to 1v1 out of the two. For me it would be a cleric.

Not sure about endgame mystic vs cleric, sounds like a charm ****/1hr fight, I'll go with you on that one as I have no experience playing a toon as either class.

Aeliah x A_Raft, both self-buffed only, was a never-ending fight which ended with both giving up. So yeah, cleric x mystic in endgame is a boring fight which never ends. Both can out-heal each-other's damage.

Not sure how it'd look now with new cyclone and new mystic skills as well.

Zoldi - Morai · January 2014

FistToDeath - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Aeliah x A_Raft, both self-buffed only, was a never-ending fight which ended with both giving up. So yeah, cleric x mystic in endgame is a boring fight which never ends. Both can out-heal each-other's damage.

Not sure how it'd look now with new cyclone and new mystic skills as well.

Surprising... What are the gemms used by Aeliah ? Absorb soul is so huge on cleric with no physical def. I'm ok to say that this nearly impossible for a cleric to kill a mystic 1v1, but this seems really easier for a myst to kill a cleric according to my experience (full R9.3+10 vs full R9.3+10, so maybe could be different with full+12 and I need to retry)

MissCherie - Harshlands · January 2014

blackeroasis wrote: »

Okay now that Mystics have instant lysing and stronger a stronger dps skill which would be harder to fight in a 1v1 cleric or mystic?

If we speak about a really skilled mystic and cleric (and equally geared) than I'd say probably equally hard to kill.

Damage Potential:

I know people say clerics struggle killing endgame opponents is it the same for mystics?

It really depend of the class, if we take example a end game barb than both will have trouble, but for fighting caster mystic have an big advantage with AS that hit really hard and can often 1-2 shots other casters.

Survivability:

Also are mystics still pretty squishy in comparison? I know for a while mystics were really susceptible to dph is that because their gear doesn't refine as much as other casters?

I mean I see plenty of videos of clerics and wizards tanking 20v1 in NW but I haven't seen anything like that on the mystic side of things.

Mystic gears refine the same than all other casters. For defenses, mystic have the second best defenses of all casters (wizz being the first), but mystic have the best survivability.

There's not a lot of mystics, on that 95% doesn't know how to play their class and on the 5% that know how to play, there was almost no end game geared mystics till recently, people though for a long time that mystics was a crappy class and they start to realize that mystics are actually good if playing well. than again I see a ton of people power lvl their mystic R9 and doesn't how to play it.

Yesterday a not end game mystic of mystic of my faction was testing damage and did one shot a totally end game archer (the archer have 22k hp unbuffed) and when I say totally end game archer it's totally end game including a set of S cards (that archer is the most geared player of my server) and the mystic did one shot him, there's no cleric that can one shot that archer.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Also excuse my ignorance since most of my information comes from other people in game.

Answers in pink.

As I said for a long time mystic was underestimate cause the majority of the people playing mystic do it wrong, they play it like a veno or like a cleric, while mystic is not a veno or cleric. Also there was almost no geared mystics which was making harder for people to realize the potential of that class, now that more and more get geared people realize that mystic is a great class when it's well play.

NeonZephyr - Archosaur · January 2014

MissCherie - Harshlands wrote: »

Answers in pink.

As I said for a long time mystic was underestimate cause the majority of the people playing mystic do it wrong, they play it like a veno or like a cleric, while mystic is not a veno or cleric. Also there was almost no geared mystics which was making harder for people to realize the potential of that class, now that more and more get geared people realize that mystic is a great class when it's well play.

I totally agree with the fact there aren't a whole lot of fantastic mystics out there for most people to gauge their abilities correctly.

"Yesterday a not end game mystic of mystic of my faction was testing damage and did one shot a totally end game archer (the archer have 22k hp unbuffed) and when I say totally end game archer it's totally end game including a set of S cards (that archer is the most geared player of my server) and the mystic did one shot him, there's no cleric that can one shot that archer."

No cleric that can one shot that archer? I don't believe that at all. Smack a few debuffs and a triple sparked tempest crit would do the trick if it's just "damage testing." Ask some of the clecs on your server to give it a go I'm sure some of them would be keen to prove that wrong =P

As for the OP's question both Mystic and Cleric are both classes with a crapton of useful skills and they 100% come down to how good the player behind the toon is. Defensively clerics ARE on par with mystics but I think the classes are fairly equal and neither should be put on a pedestal above the other.

FistToDeath - Dreamweaver · January 2014

Zoldi - Morai wrote: »

Surprising... What are the gemms used by Aeliah ? Absorb soul is so huge on cleric with no physical def. I'm ok to say that this nearly impossible for a cleric to kill a mystic 1v1, but this seems really easier for a myst to kill a cleric according to my experience (full R9.3+10 vs full R9.3+10, so maybe could be different with full+12 and I need to retry)

Both are jaded. Both are pretty much full +12. The point is: a mystic wouldn't have time enough to do their absorb soul combo with a chain of sleep + SoG. Absoul was ticking Aeliah's charm everytime, but soon after Raft was sleeping/SoGed again. Now, with insta-lysing, mystics might have a little advantage over clerics, though.

MissCherie - Harshlands · January 2014

FistToDeath - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Both are jaded. Both are pretty much full +12. The point is: a mystic wouldn't have time enough to do their absorb soul combo with a chain of sleep + SoG. Absoul was ticking Aeliah's charm everytime, but soon after Raft was sleeping/SoGed again. Now, with insta-lysing, mystics might have a little advantage over clerics, though.

With the new skills it's not only insta lyse, our skill lvl 100 will do almost 5k more damage + have half chance to cut AS chan by half, which might make it harder for people to avoid it.

blackeroasis · January 2014

First of all thanks for all the replies! Secondly I want to get in a little more detail on a few things that were mentioned.

Survivability

So would it be right to assume that clerics have a better time dealing with archers? I would have to agree that with a purge a cleric should have an easier time recovering due to plume shell and if sage the +100% def buff.

Secondly I've pvp'd with my mystic a few times and also with my cleric and I feel like when the pressure is being put on by an opponent I am often stuck spamming heals on a mystic while with a cleric I can get away with using plume shell and a few irons and I'm ready to retaliate. However this isn't endgame pvp and my gear really sucks so that could factor in a lot.

Damage

Also for some odd reason I feel like I do more dph on my cleric than my mystic at my current state with an unrefined G16 and speaking from a PvE situation I feel like I have to spam a lot more attacks to take down mobs with my mystic.

But some how I don't really see too much difference in what little PvP I've done on both toon however it still seems like my cleric hits harder per attack.

Disclaimer

Once again I am only speaking from what little experience I have so forgive my ignorance.

trands · January 2014

blackeroasis wrote: »

Damage Potential:

I know people say clerics struggle killing endgame opponents is it the same for mystics?

Mystics don't hit so hard. You can see that by simply comparing skill damage between mystic, cleric and wizard. Damage wise I consider mystics close to clerics. They have damage potential, but that requires some preparation. This is pretty much needed for classes with such strong heals though. In TW/NW you won't often get to that, because you'll preferably either support someone or use cc to win a map. It's different from a wizard, which is a pure DD class, that can put on a debuff and nuke quickly.

blackeroasis wrote: »

Survivability:

Also are mystics still pretty squishy in comparison? I know for a while mystics were really susceptible to dph is that because their gear doesn't refine as much as other casters?

Mystics are one of the tankiest AA classes. They have a self-only phys def buff that is nearly as strong as the wizards. They have heals that are nearly/equally as strong as clerics. They have an arsenal of summon/plant options for temporary boosts. And non of these options has a real drawback (like foxform/white voodoo).

blackeroasis wrote: »

I mean I see plenty of videos of clerics and wizards tanking 20v1 in NW but I haven't seen anything like that on the mystic side of things.

Keep in mind those vids are 1 endgame geared person vs an army of lower geared without any coordination. It's mostly wizards, because they are in a period of general OPness (that might be shifting again with new update). But you also see a few clerics. You won't see mystics that easily because 1) well playing mystics with the gear to actually do that are rare, and 2) mystics players in general aren't as show-off pvp wise, probably because they never knew an underpowered period of bullying like wizards (and clerics).

Clerics and Mystics

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