What Happens When You Can't Connect/DC/LAG/Whatever
SylenThunder - Twilight Temple
Posts: 7,908
NOTE: I had intended to post this last night, but went to bed instead. Since then the Archosaur server has had some major issues with map servers falling over, so don't go off QQing at me about that. It's the exception to the rule right now.
Also, this will be long and detailed, because I've got to dumb it down like I'm explaining rocket science to 4th graders.
I'm not assuming everyone reading this is a complete moron, but until you guys start making more intelligent posts, I'm assuming that I have to dumb it down for you to understand.
This is sparked off of this post that someone once again made arguing against facts that I often provide.
Now, lets get on to business...
First off, we're going to define the most common complaint, LAG.
So you can see, it's a pretty broad term, and can be easily confused. As a result, we won't use it in this context. We're going to separate "Lag" as "Latency", (which is what it originally was before some uneducated morons began using it incorrectly everywhere), and "FPS" as relating to the slowness of your PC to keep up. (I swear, half the people that complain about "Lag" are just running on dinosaur PC's and don't have anything wrong with their network connections.)
This is an older article, but it explains a bit the different between Lag (latency) and low FPS.
Lag vs FPS
Also...
How to get rid of Lag guide.
Now that we've cleared that up, we're going to get on with Latency, which is the real cause for the slow responses from the servers, and your disconnections.
Now where where everyone gets really stupid. Most of you seem to thing there's some magical connection either between the port on your computer, and the port directly attached to the server. This Is Wrong.
Your data takes several stops between your PC and the server. Each stop is a cause for latency in the signal.
Oh, almost forgot, you guys probably don't know what Latency is yet...
So, each step your data takes has a chance to slow it down. And it's not just your data either, if it's a regional router hub, it's handling the data for many millions of people.
So lets break this down with a sample tracetoute...
I have my network sitting behind another network, then it goes to my ISP and off to the servers. Here's the path...
Now, each of those stops is a point of failure. The larger the number is, the higher the latency.
In my example hops 4, 5, and 6 have a * instead of a number. This means that the packets were dropped. In this particular case, I happen to know that it's because they don't return ping requests, and not because there's any issue.
If you look at this example, you can see where there is an issue with packets being lost and high latency.
In this example, hop 13 is the Regional router before PWE's ISP, 14 is the ISP, and 15 is the firewall.
SO, in this example, where is PWE to blame? Can the blame be put on your network connection or ISP?
Nope. It's completely outside of anyone's control.
In this particular example an extremely large number of people were getting disconnected and were experiencing high latency.
Of course they were. Look a the latency on all those Routers in the big New York hub. That's nothing wrong with the servers or PWE's connection.
Common causes for latency...
Your End
The World
PWE
You're using Wireless
There's a lot of streaming traffic on your local network.
You have a bad cable going from the wall to the modem.
There's a fault in the in-house wiring.
There's a fault in the wiring from your house to the pole.
There's a fault in the wiring to the CO of your ISP.
There's a fault at the CO of your ISP.
There's a fault at a Regional Hub.
There's a fault at PWE's ISP.
There's a fault at PWE.
Now, just looking at the colors, you can see where the majority of the fault is going to lie. I can safely say that 98% of the time someone complains about latency, and provides me with data to track it down, I find that the fault is either on their end, or with a regional hub. Of those, the majority is the regional hubs.
If any of you care to naysay this and attempt to prove me wrong, I'm up for the challenge. Just be sure to bring actual facts to the table. Also be aware that there is the odd exception, like DDoS attacks and the recent issues with servers/maps actually falling over.
Also, this will be long and detailed, because I've got to dumb it down like I'm explaining rocket science to 4th graders.
I'm not assuming everyone reading this is a complete moron, but until you guys start making more intelligent posts, I'm assuming that I have to dumb it down for you to understand.
This is sparked off of this post that someone once again made arguing against facts that I often provide.
Now he has a valid argument, and since this is what most of you can't seem to see past, I'm going to explain it more.Ninety_nine - Dreamweaver wrote: »...
As for lag, how can it only be just me when the moment i start lagging even just a lil bit, World chat lights up like no other with countless people raging about lag? VERY hard to believe,,,just me.
Hard to believe hundreds of people get lag at the EXACT same moment on a single server and be their personal router. dont u think?
Most of my faction has been lagging horribly also.
Now, lets get on to business...
First off, we're going to define the most common complaint, LAG.
Urban Dictionary wrote:not to be confused with latency (the time it takes to send a packet to and recieve a response packet from a server along a network), lag is impaired computer functionality (slow application responses or reduced/choppy framerates) resulting from high latency, packet loss, or low-preformance (generally video) hardware
So you can see, it's a pretty broad term, and can be easily confused. As a result, we won't use it in this context. We're going to separate "Lag" as "Latency", (which is what it originally was before some uneducated morons began using it incorrectly everywhere), and "FPS" as relating to the slowness of your PC to keep up. (I swear, half the people that complain about "Lag" are just running on dinosaur PC's and don't have anything wrong with their network connections.)
This is an older article, but it explains a bit the different between Lag (latency) and low FPS.
Lag vs FPS
Also...
How to get rid of Lag guide.
Now that we've cleared that up, we're going to get on with Latency, which is the real cause for the slow responses from the servers, and your disconnections.
Now where where everyone gets really stupid. Most of you seem to thing there's some magical connection either between the port on your computer, and the port directly attached to the server. This Is Wrong.
Your data takes several stops between your PC and the server. Each stop is a cause for latency in the signal.
Oh, almost forgot, you guys probably don't know what Latency is yet...
Urban Dictionary wrote:Latency is a term used for the time it takes for a packet of data to be sent by an application, travel to and be recieved by another application. Higher latency means longer time taken, meaning more delay of the requested action.
So, each step your data takes has a chance to slow it down. And it's not just your data either, if it's a regional router hub, it's handling the data for many millions of people.
So lets break this down with a sample tracetoute...
I have my network sitting behind another network, then it goes to my ISP and off to the servers. Here's the path...
* You're not actually hitting the server itself, this is just a load-balancing firewall. The actual server consists of an array of blades. Each one is an individual set of instances.Tracert to Sanctuary wrote:\PWI\PWI~Files>tracert pwigc2.perfectworld.com
Tracing route to pwigc2.perfectworld.com [66.151.133.71]
over a maximum of 16 hops:
1 1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.15.1 My Router
2 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.254 My Gateway
3 11 ms 10 ms 9 ms 76.250.208.2 My ISP
4 * * * Request timed out. Regional Gateway
5 * * * Request timed out. Regional Gateway
6 * * * Request timed out. Regional Gateway
7 12 ms 11 ms 11 ms 12.83.32.169 Regional Gateway
8 69 ms 69 ms 69 ms 12.122.85.85 Regional Gateway
9 69 ms 69 ms 70 ms 12.91.70.6 Regional Gateway
10 70 ms 72 ms 71 ms 66.151.144.80 Regional Gateway
11 71 ms 72 ms 71 ms 64.95.143.190 PWE's ISP
12 72 ms 72 ms 72 ms 66.151.133.71 Server*
Trace complete.
Now, each of those stops is a point of failure. The larger the number is, the higher the latency.
In my example hops 4, 5, and 6 have a * instead of a number. This means that the packets were dropped. In this particular case, I happen to know that it's because they don't return ping requests, and not because there's any issue.
If you look at this example, you can see where there is an issue with packets being lost and high latency.
In this example, I took multiple samples and it showed that the Regional Router at Hop 9 was having some issues. It's spiking on latency, and is often dropping packets.Tracert to Heavens Tear wrote:
Tracing route to pwieast1.perfectworld.com [74.201.183.20]
over a maximum of 16 hops:
1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.15.1
2 1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.254
3 10 ms 10 ms 10 ms 76-250-208-2.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net [76.250.208.2]
4 * * * Request timed out.
5 * * * Request timed out.
6 * * * Request timed out.
7 12 ms 10 ms 11 ms 12.83.32.129
8 21 ms 19 ms 19 ms ggr4.cgcil.ip.att.net [12.122.133.33]
9 * * 330 ms chi-bb1-link.telia.net [213.248.87.253]
10 404 ms 422 ms 411 ms nyk-bb1-link.telia.net [80.91.246.163]
11 189 ms 203 ms 220 ms nyk-b6-link.telia.net [80.91.254.32]
12 266 ms 272 ms 297 ms internap-ic-150761-nyk-b5.c.telia.net [213.248.81.150]
13 315 ms 333 ms 351 ms border1.pc1-bbnet1.nyj001.pnap.net [216.52.95.9]
14 * * * Request timed out.
15 * * * Request timed out.
16 * * * Request timed out.
Trace complete.
In this example, hop 13 is the Regional router before PWE's ISP, 14 is the ISP, and 15 is the firewall.
SO, in this example, where is PWE to blame? Can the blame be put on your network connection or ISP?
Nope. It's completely outside of anyone's control.
In this particular example an extremely large number of people were getting disconnected and were experiencing high latency.
Of course they were. Look a the latency on all those Routers in the big New York hub. That's nothing wrong with the servers or PWE's connection.
Common causes for latency...
Your End
The World
PWE
You're using Wireless
There's a lot of streaming traffic on your local network.
You have a bad cable going from the wall to the modem.
There's a fault in the in-house wiring.
There's a fault in the wiring from your house to the pole.
There's a fault in the wiring to the CO of your ISP.
There's a fault at the CO of your ISP.
There's a fault at a Regional Hub.
There's a fault at PWE's ISP.
There's a fault at PWE.
Now, just looking at the colors, you can see where the majority of the fault is going to lie. I can safely say that 98% of the time someone complains about latency, and provides me with data to track it down, I find that the fault is either on their end, or with a regional hub. Of those, the majority is the regional hubs.
If any of you care to naysay this and attempt to prove me wrong, I'm up for the challenge. Just be sure to bring actual facts to the table. Also be aware that there is the odd exception, like DDoS attacks and the recent issues with servers/maps actually falling over.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by SylenThunder - Twilight Temple on
0
Comments
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The pathping command can be used to get a more accurate display of how many packets are being dropped. It takes a few minutes to run.0
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Excellent post and explanation.
Pity most of the people who will actually read through and understand it already knew about it. Here's hoping at least some people who didn't know already take the time to go through it properly. Oh well, I now have a new link to copy/paste when it comes to this.(Insert fancy image here)
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Figure this would be a good place to ask this question as it's something I occasionally have an issue with. Sometimes when I'm playing my character will move in a kind of jerking motion. The most common places I notice this is in the Morai area and also in Heaven. I've checked both the ping and fps then and on average my ping will sit at right around 100 and FPS around 50-70 (sometimes as high as 90, though in very heavy traffic areas it will drop to about 20. ie NW NPC) So if I have good ping and fps why is my character moving like that.
It doesn't effect my playing at all, was just more curious as to why and if I can do anything to help it.
Also something you can add to your post as to causes..weather. When it gets very cold or stormy, it's going to affect internet, even if it's not in your area. So many people forget this.AstriaFae
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I looked to the stars, my aim true.
Heart peirced, the light flowed.
And from the dust of Sagittarrius,
I crafted a bow.0 -
Thanks for this informational, yet useless post. Now let me tell you something, when many players on pwi lag and/or crash, it isn't their own fault - Its completely PWE's fault. It is a big gaming company, with 'gaming' as its commercial business operations. It is the responsiblity of PWE to buy better net package from their ISP. Now I know that the Chinese heads of this firm like to do cost cutting in everything, but then yeah - it isn't always the players' problem. And yeah, PWI's internet connection is not at all "fine" like you seem to suggest. If instances are crashing, if multiple players are getting randomly kicked out of game randomly on random days, if the servers are having login issues for hours - is that all players' fault? or a fault of some "regional hub" just before the packets reach PWI's servers? No its the ******n fault of the ******n pw aministration who are saving money by buying lower quality (read: bandwidth) internet package.0
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HawtyNaughty - Heavens Tear wrote: »Thanks for this informational, yet useless post. Now let me tell you something, when many players on pwi lag and/or crash, it isn't their own fault - Its completely PWE's fault. It is a big gaming company, with 'gaming' as its commercial business operations. It is the responsiblity of PWE to buy better net package from their ISP. Now I know that the Chinese heads of this firm like to do cost cutting in everything, but then yeah - it isn't always the players' problem. And yeah, PWI's internet connection is not at all "fine" like you seem to suggest. If instances are crashing, if multiple players are getting randomly kicked out of game randomly on random days, if the servers are having login issues for hours - is that all players' fault? or a fault of some "regional hub" just before the packets reach PWI's servers? No its the ******n fault of the ******n pw aministration who are saving money by buying lower quality (read: bandwidth) internet package.
If one of the hubs in between the connection, in the "world" part is having trouble which will cause a lot of players massive amounts of lag, how is PWE supposed to fix it?
Do tell.0 -
_dblazen_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »If one of the hubs in between the connection, in the "world" part is having trouble which will cause a lot of players massive amounts of lag, how is PWE supposed to fix it?
Do tell.
How do you explain server login issues or instances crashing? Does that happen because all the players playing in that particular dungeon were living far away from America and so had high latency? Is that what you are suggesting?
It is not some small gaming firm running on players' "donations". It is one big corporation valued at few billions. If players are not able to connect to pwi's servers 24x7x365 (except during maintenance) then fault lies at PWE. And they can't excuse themselves by saying there must be a fault at some regional hub which is dropping packets! Such things only happen when you buy **** internet packages from your ISP! Why? To save money! Who cares about the idiot customers anyway, idiots are gonna swipe their credit cards on pwi anyway.0 -
HawtyNaughty - Heavens Tear wrote: »How do you explain server login issues or instances crashing? Does that happen because all the players playing in that particular dungeon were living far away from America and so had high latency? Is that what you are suggesting?
It is not some small gaming firm running on players' "donations". It is one big corporation valued at few billions. If players are not able to connect to pwi's servers 24x7x365 (except during maintenance) then fault lies at PWE. And they can't excuse themselves by saying there must be a fault at some regional hub which is dropping packets! Such things only happen when you buy **** internet packages from your ISP! Why? To save money! Who cares about the idiot customers anyway, idiots are gonna swipe their credit cards on pwi anyway.
You clearly have no clue how this game is set up to work.
Login issues can have multiple reasons, latency is just one of them.
Instance crashes has nothing to do at all with internet connections, so don't even make a link between instances crashing and what connection is being used.
If you can only point your finger towards PWE for every single issue ever when it comes to lag and unable to connect, then you clearly have not read the OP.0 -
Wrong. Even if you have the best ISP in the entire world, sometimes various things are going to affect regional hubs. You want to blame PWE for the weather too? Bad weather can affect many users. Nothing is full proof and not everything is their fault. No matter how much you wish that there was such a thing as perfection, there isn't. And as Sylen already mentioned, things like the archo server problems are the exception.0
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SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »NOTE: I had intended to post this last night, but went to bed instead. Since then the Archosaur server has had some major issues with map servers falling over, so don't go off QQing at me about that. It's the exception to the rule right now.
Also, this will be long and detailed, because I've got to dumb it down like I'm explaining rocket science to 4th graders.
I'm not assuming everyone reading this is a complete moron, but until you guys start making more intelligent posts, I'm assuming that I have to dumb it down for you to understand.
This is sparked off of this post that someone once again made arguing against facts that I often provide.
Now he has a valid argument, and since this is what most of you can't seem to see past, I'm going to explain it more.
Now, lets get on to business...
First off, we're going to define the most common complaint, LAG.
So you can see, it's a pretty broad term, and can be easily confused. As a result, we won't use it in this context. We're going to separate "Lag" as "Latency", (which is what it originally was before some uneducated morons began using it incorrectly everywhere), and "FPS" as relating to the slowness of your PC to keep up. (I swear, half the people that complain about "Lag" are just running on dinosaur PC's and don't have anything wrong with their network connections.)
This is an older article, but it explains a bit the different between Lag (latency) and low FPS.
Lag vs FPS
Also...
How to get rid of Lag guide.
Now that we've cleared that up, we're going to get on with Latency, which is the real cause for the slow responses from the servers, and your disconnections.
Now where where everyone gets really stupid. Most of you seem to thing there's some magical connection either between the port on your computer, and the port directly attached to the server. This Is Wrong.
Your data takes several stops between your PC and the server. Each stop is a cause for latency in the signal.
Oh, almost forgot, you guys probably don't know what Latency is yet...
So, each step your data takes has a chance to slow it down. And it's not just your data either, if it's a regional router hub, it's handling the data for many millions of people.
So lets break this down with a sample tracetoute...
I have my network sitting behind another network, then it goes to my ISP and off to the servers. Here's the path...
* You're not actually hitting the server itself, this is just a load-balancing firewall. The actual server consists of an array of blades. Each one is an individual set of instances.
Now, each of those stops is a point of failure. The larger the number is, the higher the latency.
In my example hops 4, 5, and 6 have a * instead of a number. This means that the packets were dropped. In this particular case, I happen to know that it's because they don't return ping requests, and not because there's any issue.
If you look at this example, you can see where there is an issue with packets being lost and high latency.
In this example, I took multiple samples and it showed that the Regional Router at Hop 9 was having some issues. It's spiking on latency, and is often dropping packets.
In this example, hop 13 is the Regional router before PWE's ISP, 14 is the ISP, and 15 is the firewall.
SO, in this example, where is PWE to blame? Can the blame be put on your network connection or ISP?
Nope. It's completely outside of anyone's control.
In this particular example an extremely large number of people were getting disconnected and were experiencing high latency.
Of course they were. Look a the latency on all those Routers in the big New York hub. That's nothing wrong with the servers or PWE's connection.
Common causes for latency...
Your End
The World
PWE
You're using Wireless
There's a lot of streaming traffic on your local network.
You have a bad cable going from the wall to the modem.
There's a fault in the in-house wiring.
There's a fault in the wiring from your house to the pole.
There's a fault in the wiring to the CO of your ISP.
There's a fault at the CO of your ISP.
There's a fault at a Regional Hub.
There's a fault at PWE's ISP.
There's a fault at PWE.
Now, just looking at the colors, you can see where the majority of the fault is going to lie. I can safely say that 98% of the time someone complains about latency, and provides me with data to track it down, I find that the fault is either on their end, or with a regional hub. Of those, the majority is the regional hubs.
If any of you care to naysay this and attempt to prove me wrong, I'm up for the challenge. Just be sure to bring actual facts to the table. Also be aware that there is the odd exception, like DDoS attacks and the recent issues with servers/maps actually falling over.
Good post. But to clearify, i never said i had fps issues. FPS=frames per second.
FPS isnt whats wrong by any means on my end. I hold steady most everywhere i go except west.
Ping is what skyrockets to 6k and holds steady for a couple hours at a time sometimes and ironically WC blows up with comments about high ping during this exact time. (not low fps)
When i said lag, and as u said broad term, I meant the actual ping.
I like the post, very detailed.
Now hopefully people will actually put forth the effort into reading all of it vs seeing the first line and pretend in their own world they read the entire thing and knows exactly how to comment.
correct me if im wrong, but it clearly seems to me that the servers are simply fine.
Its getting to the servers is whats having the issue.0 -
oVenusArmanio wrote: »Wrong. Even if you have the best ISP in the entire world, sometimes various things are going to affect regional hubs. You want to blame PWE for the weather too? Bad weather can affect many users. Nothing is full proof and not everything is their fault. No matter how much you wish that there was such a thing as perfection, there isn't. And as Sylen already mentioned, things like the archo server problems are the exception.
Really bad weather and such are exceptions. Server/in-game instance crashes, login issues are not some rare occurence in PWI. These things are nowadays happening frequently. Whose fault is it? Some faulty regional hub's? or all players have bad computers?
Question: How does the world's oldest and the biggest MMORPG-that-shall-not-be-named-coz-PWI's-forum-policies-suck manages to keep its 35-40 different heavily populated servers online ALL the time? Do they have some special secret internet architecture only used for military installations? Or is it because they actually CARE for their customers enough to buy/pay for better bandwidth from their ISPs?0 -
HawtyNaughty - Heavens Tear wrote: »Really bad weather and such are exceptions. Server/in-game instance crashes, login issues are not some rare occurence in PWI. These things are nowadays happening frequently. Whose fault is it? Some faulty regional hub's? or all players have bad computers?
The frequent issues with morai and archo are probably the fault of PWI. Archo for sure is, I don't know too much about morai. I would assume it is, I know for sure some of the issues morai is having is with the server. Such as they couldn't enter faction bases for a while. Some of the issues posted here on the forums though have simply been regional hubs. Sylen has offered a lot of tech support on the forums and I've moved a lot of threads, and still the majority of issues haven't been on PWI's end. That isn't to say that the stuff that is PWI's fault hasn't been more frequent than in the past. It absolutely has been. The issues they have been having with the archosaur server in particular have been bad and way more frequent than in the past. But a lot of these hiccups with d/cs that lasted only a few minutes, or lag, what have you. A lot of that has been out of PWI's control.
edit: And a simple google search of some major companies an the phrase "can't login" returns millions of result. All the games have technical issues every now and then. That's part of life. And that's all that we can discuss on that matter here.
edit 2: As for why the big companies handles issues faster than companies smaller than them like PWE, that's because they have more employees/resources.0 -
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Retired PWI veteran. 06/26/2010-2014.0 -
Nice post. But, with PWI, all Lag/connection issues are on PWIs side not mine.
When there is lag, lag spikes, and everyone in faction are experiencing it, it is PWIs fault. There are many people playing the game from various locations across the world. If they are all experiencing lag or connection issues all at the same time, it is very very unlikely that it is them or their ISP, unless the internet dwarfs have completed their internet bandwidth stealing machine.
PWI is known to have these issues. The player base has expressed concerns to PWI about it, nothing is acknowledged or done about it. They mentioned 1 problem with the servers 1 time that I can remember because of some sort of attacks. PWI won't fix any of these problems because people continue to shovel money down the pipe to PWI. Why fix something when the people are are spending the money continue to do so?
I have played dozens of online games. None of which I have experienced lag/connections issues as much as PWI.
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Here's a prime example of someone who didn't read the whole post.Nice post. But, with PWI, all Lag/connection issues are on PWIs side not mine.
When there is lag, lag spikes, and everyone in faction are experiencing it, it is PWIs fault. There are many people playing the game from various locations across the world. If they are all experiencing lag or connection issues all at the same time, it is very very unlikely that it is them or their ISP, unless the internet dwarfs have completed their internet bandwidth stealing machine.
PWI is known to have these issues. The player base has expressed concerns to PWI about it, nothing is acknowledged or done about it. They mentioned 1 problem with the servers 1 time that I can remember because of some sort of attacks. PWI won't fix any of these problems because people continue to shovel money down the pipe to PWI. Why fix something when the people are are spending the money continue to do so?
I have played dozens of online games. None of which I have experienced lag/connections issues as much as PWI.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »Here's a prime example of someone who didn't read the whole post.
I read it and understood it. Its nothing new to me. When it comes down to it. It is PWIs fault. Wether it be poor programming, poor selection of servers, Lazyness, etc.... It is PWIs fault. It may not be directly their fault. But we as "customers" are to be provided a certain service with certain expectations. Just as PWI is someones customer who should expect a certain service and expectations. It is PWIs fault for selecting the service and whatever else to run a game. That is what makes it their fault.
Like someone else mentioned. A certain game that has millions and millions of players has a better up time and less lag then PWI. Why? They chose the better service so they could provide a better service.0 -
You're still missing the concept of the whole internet in-between you and PWI.I read it and understood it. Its nothing new to me. When it comes down to it. It is PWIs fault. Wether it be poor programming, poor selection of servers, Lazyness, etc.... It is PWIs fault. It may not be directly their fault. But we as "customers" are to be provided a certain service with certain expectations. Just as PWI is someones customer who should expect a certain service and expectations. It is PWIs fault for selecting the service and whatever else to run a game. That is what makes it their fault.
Like someone else mentioned. A certain game that has millions and millions of players has a better up time and less lag then PWI. Why? They chose the better service so they could provide a better service.
The larger companies, have multiple servers throughout the US and spend huge piles of money to keep them all live synced. So when one regional router is having issues, the client automatically switches to a node that has a better ping.
PWE isn't that big of a company. Unlike the larger companies, they don't even develop the titles they publish, and they aren't the direct developer either. A lot of those larger titles aren't F2P either.
Once again, you're comparing apples to oranges and forgetting all about the internet highway.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »Removed due to client instability
Great post for those who don't know about the whole intertubes process. A bit snotty in parts but repetitive fustration will do that now and then.
For the people posting about issues beyond PWE's control, nothing PWE does will correct it. (and as most people know, I'm not one to stick up for PWE very often... When they deserve a whole heap o' fecal matter, I give it to 'em!)
Now for PWE issues that may be under their control... give 'em hell! I will warn you though, many PWE employees tend to become deaf and mute when faced with angry players. On those issues, better to post reviews and comments on MMO forums and let people know the failures. That will let you rant, rage and vent while at the same time give people some information so they can make their own informed choice.
~skog b:victory[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Well, i guess it is time for PWE expend there business and build up some private network systems only for PWE customers. Due to the out of hand problem from: 'the regional hubs'. b:chuckleb:chuckleb:chuckle
BTW, to be honest, i rather wish PWI is a paid game.0 -
Just curious Sylen,
In your tracert to Heaven Tear, why would the packets that leave AT&T's network out of Wichita Kansas hop to TeliaSonera's network in Switzerland then return back to Atlanta Georgia?
Also, I recall many moons ago when I took a basic networking course that routier's keep an internal network table of the next available hops. Back then, a network administrator would need to issue a command to have the routier update its table otherwise if one of the hops were bad the routier would keep trying to use it. Is this still the case or have routiers gotten smarter that they update on thier own as a hops becomes unavailable?0 -
ToyMaker_NOT - Raging Tide wrote: »Just curious Sylen,
In your tracert to Heaven Tear, why would the packets that leave AT&T's network out of Wichita Kansas hop to TeliaSonera's network in Switzerland then return back to Atlanta Georgia?
Also, I recall many moons ago when I took a basic networking course that routier's keep an internal network table of the next available hops. Back then, a network administrator would need to issue a command to have the routier update its table otherwise if one of the hops were bad the routier would keep trying to use it. Is this still the case or have routiers gotten smarter that they update on thier own as a hops becomes unavailable?
I assume your referring to hop 9, which is TeliaSonera, but out of Chicago.0 -
They use load balancers that will automatically adjust to another route if one device becomes overloaded or stops responding. The problem is that it takes several minutes for the information about the new route to replicate across the worlds DNS servers. That can take anywhere from 5 minutes to half an hour depending on the sync timing of the various networks.ToyMaker_NOT - Raging Tide wrote: »Just curious Sylen,
In your tracert to Heaven Tear, why would the packets that leave AT&T's network out of Wichita Kansas hop to TeliaSonera's network in Switzerland then return back to Atlanta Georgia?
Also, I recall many moons ago when I took a basic networking course that routier's keep an internal network table of the next available hops. Back then, a network administrator would need to issue a command to have the routier update its table otherwise if one of the hops were bad the routier would keep trying to use it. Is this still the case or have routiers gotten smarter that they update on thier own as a hops becomes unavailable?
That one really confuses the hell out of me. It should be in Pennsylvania. At least, that's the route it would normally take from here, but none of that route is following standard paths.Vyvyan - Dreamweaver wrote: »I assume your referring to hop 9, which is TeliaSonera, but out of Chicago.
I am most curious about why it's going from Michigan, to Chicago, to a couple of unknowns, (I can't recall where hops 5 and 6 are atm), Off to Wichita Kansas on hop 7 and 8, then somehow it mysteriously flies over to Europe and hits Germany, and then stops in Switzerland on hop 10-12 and then mysteriously end up in New York, but with an IP address that traces to Atlanta, Georgia.
There's something seriously screwed up with the data in that route, which makes me think that something got screwed up in the data sent to the DNS servers. That will definitely cause the connection problems we were having that day. I mean, you just can't go straight from Kansas to Switzerland without hitting the trunk line that goes from New York to Europe first.
In the past that route would go from Michigan, to Chicago, maybe hit Canada, Pennsylvania, then New York, and I'd have a max ping of about 35ms. Also, it looks like that's a trace to Harshlands, not Heaven's Tear. Which means I clicked on the wrong script.
I just ran a trace to Harshlands again, and it takes the same hops, but with an average of 42ms. It's just weird. It doesn't make any sense.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
lmfao I know right there are alot of stupid people in MMORPG's like some mystical cable stretched to the server port for them.
they obviously never played a game online before MMORPG's
I seen similar things happen on First person shooter games server is fine 42 of 68 people suddenly leave the game all at 1 time then they soon return a few moments later and say "STUPID NET SPLITS" they know what caused it lol0 -
Pardon me if It's been explained but it's been long known that lag that occurs in PWI for quite a while now is THEIR problem not our. And the fact that everyone gets it at once is a proof of it so don't get me this Proxy server error bull****. It could be anything, glitch in programming, a hardware problem such as failing Server Hard drive or even LAN wire that someone trips over. This entire game seems to be held in place by glue and faith and Archosaur rollback is good example of it. And since it still occurs I bet they have no idea how to fix it.Mystic: 99 lvl (Main)
Psychic: 96 lvl (Alt)
Assassin: 78 lvl (Retired)
Cleric: 75 lvl (Retired)
Big bumpy ride since 20080 -
Let me make it simple.Shayd - Raging Tide wrote: »Pardon me if It's been explained but it's been long known that lag that occurs in PWI for quite a while now is THEIR problem not our. And the fact that everyone gets it at once is a proof of it so don't get me this Proxy server error bull****. It could be anything, glitch in programming, a hardware problem such as failing Server Hard drive or even LAN wire that someone trips over. This entire game seems to be held in place by glue and faith and Archosaur rollback is good example of it. And since it still occurs I bet they have no idea how to fix it.
There are three sides.
1: Your side.
2: PWI's side.
3: The rest of the ENTIRE PLANET.
An issue at any of those 3 points will cause issues. Yes, there are times when it's genuinely PWI (IE: The recent issues with Archo), but it's far more often in these scenarios to either be the player or ANY HUB ON THE PLANET THAT ROUTS TO PWI that has the issue. And, guess what, an issue at any one of those hubs can cause a large amount of people to experience problems with not a thing PWI can do about it. This is what the first post is attempting to explain.
I don't know why, after reading (for those who did read), people still seem to think it's only them or PWI and are completely ignoring that there's vastly more than that in the way. The internet DOES NOT WORK LIKE THAT, folks!(Insert fancy image here)0 -
...
I don't know why, after reading (for those who did read), people still seem to think it's only them or PWI and are completely ignoring that there's vastly more than that in the way. The internet DOES NOT WORK LIKE THAT, folks!B e c a u s e ____ i t ' s ____ M a g y c k !____b:chuckle
____[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »B e c a u s e ____ i t ' s ____ M a g y c k !____b:chuckle
____
So they tl;dr and skip straight to this?(Insert fancy image here)0 -
Shayd - Raging Tide wrote: »Pardon me if It's been explained but it's been long known that lag that occurs in PWI for quite a while now is THEIR problem not our. And the fact that everyone gets it at once is a proof of it so don't get me this Proxy server error bull****. It could be anything, glitch in programming, a hardware problem such as failing Server Hard drive or even LAN wire that someone trips over. This entire game seems to be held in place by glue and faith and Archosaur rollback is good example of it. And since it still occurs I bet they have no idea how to fix it.
Actually it doesn't happen to everyone at once unless the server goes down. I've seen 1/2 of Arch disappear and 5 minutes later WC with mass DC whining, while the entire time I merrily went about my business.0 -
SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »NOTE:
Also, this will be long and detailed, because I've got to dumb it down like I'm explaining rocket science to 4th graders.
I'm not assuming everyone reading this is a complete moron, but until you guys start making more intelligent posts, I'm assuming that I have to dumb it down for you to understand.
. . .", (which is what it originally was before some uneducated morons began using it incorrectly everywhere). . .
Don't know about anyone else, but I can never get enough of condescending insults. Too bad there is some good info in the post, it's just not easy to see the quality through this superiourity, self-righteous, "me know stuff, so you better recognize yo" tone.I did not feel the treachery or inconstancy of a friend, nor the injuries of a secret or open enemy. I had no occasion of bribing, flattering, or pimping, to procure the favour of any great man, or of his minion; I wanted no fence against fraud or oppression: here was neither physician to destroy my body, nor lawyer to ruin my fortune; no informer to watch my words and actions, or forge accusations against me for hire: here were no gibers, censurers, backbiters, pickpockets, highwaymen, housebreakers, attorneys, bawds, buffoons, gamesters, politicians, wits, splenetics, tedious talkers, controvertists, ravishers, murderers, robbers, virtuosos; no leaders, or followers, of party and faction; no encouragers to vice, by seducement or examples; no dungeon, axes, gibbets, whipping-posts, or pillories; no cheating shopkeepers or mechanics; no pride, vanity, or affectation; no fops, bullies, drunkards, strolling prostitutes, or poxes; no ranting, lewd, expensive wives; no stupid, proud pedants; no importunate, overbearing, quarrelsome, noisy, roaring, empty, conceited, swearing companions; no scoundrels raised from the dust upon the merit of their vices, or nobility thrown into it on account of their virtues; no lords, fiddlers, judges, or dancing-masters.
From Gulliver's Travels by Jonathan Swift0 -
maybe this could be stickied somewhere?
its real useful and informative [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]lagunal8.deviantart.com
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Ok, I got 2 question about this.
Let's say I knew, or now know, 90% of the stuff you said in the thread.
Sometimes when I log in PWI, all servers are fine to me. When I go to the server list, all servers in West Coast, the one in Europe, and all in East Coast are fine but Dreamweaver (the server that I play on).
If you didn't get, in Server List all of above have ~100-150 Ping and are marked as green. But Dreamweaver happens to be marked in red and have 3000 Ping (the max that it can reach in the server list, if I'm not wrong).
I wanted to know where, and what the problem is here in this situation?
______
Also, sometimes when I restart my modem, or even my router, the connection gets better on Dreamweaver. Sometimes it doesn't. And sometimes, more servers start lagging, and some that weren't lagging start to.
I always asked myself what's actually going on when I do that. When I reset them I'm changing the "doors" to acess/reach PWI's door? (Sorry for the freaking bad terms, I'm not too good at that as you can see xD).
Oh, I have a router to enable Wi-Fi in my house.
So at moment, it's like this: Modem > Router > Computer.
Thanks in advance and sorry for the long wall text b:surrender105/105/103
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