question

stop trolling us blondeh b:cry

Have had arguments and talks in faction back and forth about full JoSD vs Deity BMs and I really don't think there is a wrong way to be a 30k BM with 28k+ pdef and mdef, a zerk weapon, and 130+ attack levels.

So, I always carry an O'malleys and a Jones. This allows me to get 60 def levels or 135 attack levels on switch. I'm at range on an archer, I have O'malleys on. Get inside, swap to Jones. Honestly, with all our control skills, once a BM is into melee range there isn't much we can't survive on a charm because very few opponents can chain hard hitting skills fast enough without us interupting that chain long enough for a charm tick. So mostly it's Jones. I also have vit stones since JoSDs might offer about 15-18% more damage reduction, but vit stones offer about 8% more def and 12% more hp and imo that's overall better. Just more charm ****.

K, to my point, I'm "guesstimating" the endgame build is gonna be something around 135 attack levels and 70 def levels before JoSD or Deity. Don't go full one or the other until you have endgame (r9t3 and NW) and have refined it at least +10. In this case adding 24 attack levels will be around 14% more damage or 24 more def levels will be around 18% less damage received. Both of those are very dependant on your opponents attack/def levels.

Now, with our huge defenses and our new-found issue of 20k hp and 25k pdef casters with purify proc, I think Deity is a valid choice. The only way to really kill them is to empty their genie and either charm bipass or get lucky their "12% proc rate" doesn't proc every 3 hits. Archers now have leaps and more defensive techniques and using genies and apos acan get something ridiculous like 43 seconds of anti-stun so they're another class we have to treat with dph. Barb, obvious problem is their huge hp and chaining enough skills together to eat through 45k hp with maxed pdef reduction (90%) so you basically need to do 70k pvp damage to get passed their charm. Most of our problems really are solved by more damage.

The arguments against is a deity BM vs a JoSD BM is one has 14% more damage the other has 18% more defense. And our job in mass pvp is still support, making us a prime target for focused attacks. We still need to try to get inside and still need to try to get out alive and our RotP, Blade Tornados, and especially HFs make us very visual targets. In this the JoSD has the advantage because of survivability. When we get inside and start aoeing we're usually stunning/hitting one group while DDs are camped on hills and nuking us. Our own DD is supplemental damage so while a wiz might see our stun+HF and drop BIDs, if that doesn't kill our opponents then hopefully our Fissure+Highland will.

Yes, even sages are still support. Just because your axe mastery gives you 2% more dph and you don't have reliable stuns or an HF that allows squadmates to be reactive and then channel, it still doesn't excuse you from supporting. Sages have the better magic marrow at endgame and thats a decent excuse to pull some shards from defense and put them towards damage. I also think since most of us are 3 vit and 550+ str, why are we suddenly judgemental about having JoSDs instead of Deities when having statted vit instead of strength would have the same effect.

Every bm is a support bm.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Have had arguments and talks in faction back and forth about full JoSD vs Deity BMs and I really don't think there is a wrong way to be a 30k BM with 28k+ pdef and mdef, a zerk weapon, and 130+ attack levels.

So, I always carry an O'malleys and a Jones. This allows me to get 60 def levels or 135 attack levels on switch. I'm at range on an archer, I have O'malleys on. Get inside, swap to Jones. Honestly, with all our control skills, once a BM is into melee range there isn't much we can't survive on a charm because very few opponents can chain hard hitting skills fast enough without us interupting that chain long enough for a charm tick. So mostly it's Jones. I also have vit stones since JoSDs might offer about 15-18% more damage reduction, but vit stones offer about 8% more def and 12% more hp and imo that's overall better. Just more charm ****.

K, to my point, I'm "guesstimating" the endgame build is gonna be something around 135 attack levels and 70 def levels before JoSD or Deity. Don't go full one or the other until you have endgame (r9t3 and NW) and have refined it at least +10. In this case adding 24 attack levels will be around 14% more damage or 24 more def levels will be around 18% less damage received. Both of those are very dependant on your opponents attack/def levels.

Now, with our huge defenses and our new-found issue of 20k hp and 25k pdef casters with purify proc, I think Deity is a valid choice. The only way to really kill them is to empty their genie and either charm bipass or get lucky their "12% proc rate" doesn't proc every 3 hits. Archers now have leaps and more defensive techniques and using genies and apos acan get something ridiculous like 43 seconds of anti-stun so they're another class we have to treat with dph. Barb, obvious problem is their huge hp and chaining enough skills together to eat through 45k hp with maxed pdef reduction (90%) so you basically need to do 70k pvp damage to get passed their charm. Most of our problems really are solved by more damage.

The arguments against is a deity BM vs a JoSD BM is one has 14% more damage the other has 18% more defense. And our job in mass pvp is still support, making us a prime target for focused attacks. We still need to try to get inside and still need to try to get out alive and our RotP, Blade Tornados, and especially HFs make us very visual targets. In this the JoSD has the advantage because of survivability. When we get inside and start aoeing we're usually stunning/hitting one group while DDs are camped on hills and nuking us. Our own DD is supplemental damage so while a wiz might see our stun+HF and drop BIDs, if that doesn't kill our opponents then hopefully our Fissure+Highland will.

Yes, even sages are still support. Just because your axe mastery gives you 2% more dph and you don't have reliable stuns or an HF that allows squadmates to be reactive and then channel, it still doesn't excuse you from supporting. Sages have the better magic marrow at endgame and thats a decent excuse to pull some shards from defense and put them towards damage. I also think since most of us are 3 vit and 550+ str, why are we suddenly judgemental about having JoSDs instead of Deities when having statted vit instead of strength would have the same effect.

I read this, imagined your voice. Remembered the lisps too well.

Anyway, just yolo it OP, JOSD all the way.

Remember the madbroswagyolo.

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide wrote: »

1 ur a cc class if you choose to play so ofc depending in situation.. i dont do much tw nor nw so i have no need to be a support

2that only holds true unless u cannot purge and even without it 3 hits in is a game ender wdther thay crit or not not including ha users ofc

3very true i just like dealing 3x theyre hp btr

4by all means if they hav the opportunity

5maybe who knows 0 deity wizzys around

6thats a matter of opinion again..

The rest.. i was full josd well 2 short from full tryed it.. yes makes a nice tank ...half halg imo u lose out on benefits.. u wont tank enugh u wont dd enugh.. at least for my taste..

So overall i respectfully choose to agree and disagree on some of these..time will tell me more.. now its just a guessing game.

CC in PK is important too, but if you don't want to play a CC class, why are you not a Seity sin instead? Their damage output has so much more potential than a BMs...

I missed the point on number 2, probably my bad since I was so brief. What I was saying was that the only way for a BMs damage potential to match other DD classes like sin, wiz, psy, etc relies on crit zerks, so if you want to play a DD roll, just go for a seeker. They can tank but also have a ton more damage potential than BM.

Congrats, you can hit 3x someones HP. What's the point in that? Make it be 100% of their HP and get yourself more defense so you can tank ganks and kill the same people trying to kill you in 1-2 hits all the same. Hitting AA classes for 30k is pointless.

As far as 5 goes, I know there's quite a few Deity casters on our server. Purify Spell allows them to sacrifice some defense.

A matter of opinion? Reference 2. You can have all the attack in the world, but if you're spending time running around and getting sealed/stunned, then when you finally can do something you hit for 3 times their HP, there's no point in hitting that much. We most certainly are mathematically best in defenses, we can stun someone long enough that our attack makes no true impact. Roar, HF, Fissure (to slow) or Tiger Maw Ocean's Edge, Drake Bash, and you have them stunned for 12 seconds with heavy damage on a 10 second charm cooldown, that's enough to kill. And that's not even considering Occult Ice.

The problem with offensive sharding on a BM is that we don't get the massive HP like barbs, we don't get the defense level boost of seekers, we don't get the offensive boost of sins crits, we don't get the range and damage advantage of any caster. We have speed and fast cooldowns, so we can combo things very well. However, when sharded offensively, you won't be matching a casters DD power, you won't match a seekers tankiness, you won't match a barbs HP. But when you shard defensively, you match seekers when you and they are buffed while you're marrowed, provided you have an OP ring refine to keep P.Def high. This also knocks down casters damage on you.

Essentually, it's 48 attack levels on top of your r9 and assuming t3 non-NW cube and non-NW ornaments, a Jones Blessing, seeker buff, and a Sky Cover, you already have a 133 attack level boost with a 20 attack level r9 weapon. So does everyone else. But you only have 38 defense levels. That means on a non-deity sharded character you have pretty much 100 defense levels less than their attack levels and vice versa. So the 48 comes into mind, it would be better placed in defense.

Granted you could swap out the Jones for an O'Mally and raise your defense level to 53 and lower attack level to 118 pre-shard, giving a 166 attack level 54 def level Deity Sharded, or 111 Defense Level 118 attack level JoSD sharded.

The best way to survive is to try your best to cancel out your opponents offense, so the defense levels look nice here. Sure, more attack is nice, but there's that standing problem that even at 181 attack levels, 96 defense level enemies that are JoSD sharded and using Jones will still cancel out many of your attack levels. Since our damage is pretty sub-par compared to every other class other than barb, the small boost from attack levels is nothing compared to the large boost from defense levels once all things have been considered.

But let's take a look at half JoSD and half Deity...I see this as viable. That's 24 attack and defense elvels on the previously stated geared BM. This means 157 attack level and 70 defense level with a Jones, and 142 attack with 85 defense using a O'Malley. That's a decent enough defense boost that it balances the attack boost. I'm actually pretty fond of that build for BMs that focus on PK or TW defense (In TW defense you need more offense). For the hell of it, just swap out the t3 cape and helm for a t2 cape and helm and get 5 more attack levels.

So in summary, offensively sharded BMs are beasts, but defensively sharded BMs are nightmares. The difference being, beasts can be destroyed, but nightmares return every time you close your eyes.

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide wrote: »

All and all good points once again.. true a bm is at least not yet a formifable dd class... im pretty sure that will change in the nect update... reaaon for me being a bm is cause i love it in many aspects.. and i just cant see me playing many other classes nvm if theyre btr dd's .. even if i were to use again enugh money to make a deity sin... they just dont compare to bm defence wise ... ud be surprised how much u still can tank with deitys when ur stuff is max endgame... so in a sense yes i like defence but i love offense more .. to me they shud balance out when im full deity...

Also im intrested of these deity arcanes u mentioned.. ive seen one caster with deitys and she had only 4 of em... keep in mind that this is about total max endgame.. where its all or nothing..

Granted there aren't many, and the ones that there are don't PK but do NW and TW instead. attacker_V is the first that comes to mind. Old_Blue is working on Deity stones as well. WhatTheFoxSay is also working on getting Deity Stones. AriaArrow has Deitys in her gear.