Power creep

MrJohnDoe - Dreamweaver · December 2013

I do miss nirvana a lot and casters could farm it too even with higher drops rate then melee, I miss the profit i agree but i do miss the instance it self.

Why keep it dead when can be brought to life again with different drops, even same drops but with different rate, even some bh bosses could be in nirvana, its a shame that its dead I do go nirvy every time a faction member wants to do the 99key quest, sometimes even just for fun.

PS: Sin's were first designed to take advantage of aps, now with this "no aps" thing pwi wide I think sins were left out the new pwi era, they need a tune to keep up with the dhp build not just armor and gof, sins are squishy and bp doesn't really help at all on pvp, sins need a new self buff or change in build itself since aps is the "past".

I do agree and like the changes and new things, NW is the new way of getting mats like raps and cannies that before you could get in nirvana, NW is pvp and sins had to change their builds and get a new set of gear that in my point of view is not enough for a class that was designed to survive damage apsing.

killeresras · December 2013

PS: Sin's were first designed to take advantage of aps, now with this "no aps" thing pwi wide I think sins were left out the new pwi era, they need a tune to keep up with the dhp build not just armor and gof, sins are squishy and bp doesn't really help at all on pvp, sins need a new self buff or change in build itself since aps is the "past".

I do agree and like the changes and new things, NW is the new way of getting mats like raps and cannies that before you could get in nirvana, NW is pvp and sins had to change their builds and get a new set of gear that in my point of view is not enough for a class that was designed to survive damage apsing.[/QUOTE]

I know u just did not say that. By far sins are the most annoying challenge in any pvp circumstance. Every hit is pretty much a crit. How could this class possibly need another buff when they have tidal defence which basically means, haha I laugh at u r fail attempts to stop me. I see sins easily take out r9rr Josd casters. Apps is a joke ment for pve not pvp. Sins have plenty of outs more so than any other class. Sins are definitely best pvp class in both mass pvp and 1on1.

Pls never say sins only defence is apps that was just a terrible joke.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver · December 2013

MrJohnDoe - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I do miss nirvana a lot and casters could farm it too even with higher drops rate then melee, I miss the profit i agree but i do miss the instance it self.

Why keep it dead when can be brought to life again with different drops, even same drops but with different rate, even some bh bosses could be in nirvana, its a shame that its dead I do go nirvy every time a faction member wants to do the 99key quest, sometimes even just for fun.

PS: Sin's were first designed to take advantage of aps, now with this "no aps" thing pwi wide I think sins were left out the new pwi era, they need a tune to keep up with the dhp build not just armor and gof, sins are squishy and bp doesn't really help at all on pvp, sins need a new self buff or change in build itself since aps is the "past".

I do agree and like the changes and new things, NW is the new way of getting mats like raps and cannies that before you could get in nirvana, NW is pvp and sins had to change their builds and get a new set of gear that in my point of view is not enough for a class that was designed to survive damage apsing.

To be fair meleers can farm nw, and they can earn just as much tokens as an equal, or even better geared caster. (Though they have tons of advantages over a melee in nw/mass pvp, we do still get to go in there. So I guess those are the silver linings.)

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

I'm glad that nirvana is dead. Nobody really misses nirvana, they miss the profit. Because the instance is still there. That profit was unfairly distributed and they had to adjust the game just to give casters a chance. In addition to the class based discrepancies, their was a lot more gear shaming back and elitism back then. When nirvana died, the entire player based enjoyed a better gear standard, and increased ability to farm their own gear. I hope that nirvana stays dead unless it undergoes a major overhaul.

As for the weapon thing, that is one way they can add more balance to the whole war for the reasons I already stated. They don't necessarily have to take away all of those people's gear advantage, they could just do small tweaks to adjust for skill since all different levels of experience and gear are competing against one another.

EVERY single game that does updates to their game, has this horribly bad tendency to ruin things that aren't broke, or they 'fix' something by adding in something that is completely broken. COUGHNw/purifyprocCOUGH... Pwi sadly seems to be really bad with that tendency and yet they are still up and running, and to be fair to them and other games if they do not update the game people will get bored and leave, though as I am sure one of those videos shows, that some updates do more harm than good, and just ruin the game for people. Sure some people adapt but not all will be able too. I for one really hate how the best instance to 'farm' is leaning heavily towards pvp.

Hell nw even allows casters/everyone else to farm a ridiculous amount of raps/cannies/w/e they wish in a very small fraction of what it took even the most oped aps squads to do. (Four hours of work per weekend, and while the rewards undoubtedly vary from nw, so did the drops from nirvana.) Still it is sad how pwi is dealing a complete double whammy to melees, first they ruin the effectiveness of pve instances with the removal of coin from mushroms in delta, then they add in nw which is a casters paradise, and finally they add in that pos anti melee buff on mobs/bosses, further damaging the viability of melees.

Now do NOT get me wrong I agree the whole aps craze was out of hand, but 'fixing' it by tossing everyone into a pvp instance, and then adding further insult to injury they keep throwing out buffs on bosses making it harder to play a melee. (I don't mind the nw/pvp really, but both of them together... is just way too much. << Personally I think they either really need to increase a melees SKILL damage output or do away with that pos buff they have been putting on bosses. (put a TIMED reflect on the bosses, make us play smarter and watch for it, or start making bosses more like the aba/sot bosses. (Neither of those are too bad...) Though there are some bosses that are completely ridioclous for a melee to be near, while the boss barely makes a caster hurt.

I.E the ws bosses, are often a lot easier to tank on a caster than a melee. There is also that pos elemental immune boss in aeu. (I can't count how many time he wipes out the melee fighters/a cleric trying to bb) While the boss on the caster side... I RARELY see anyone die against. (Don't tell me to seperate them that isnt the issue... he's still a huge pain in the *** to be near/try and kill when the boss is alone... Also for the record I have tanked it before if the cleric is able ot bb... but still that boss is stupid ridiculous/painful.)

In short pwi has some serious balance issues in more places than one.

MrJohnDoe - Dreamweaver · December 2013

Pls never say sins only defence is apps that was just a terrible joke.[/QUOTE]killeresras

Never said that.

Sins have plenty of outs more so than any other class. Sins are definitely best pvp class in both mass pvp and 1on1.[/QUOTE]killeresras

You probably never played one in both conditions else you would never said that.

ovenusarmanio · December 2013

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

-snip-.

I think that melee got too comfortable dominating every aspect of the game. It has often been the case that casters were forced to bring melee into stuff. Now the same is true the other way around. I mean a BM + Sin duo have all three of the holy mmo trinity (DD, Tank, Healer) covered by themselves, they gotta design content around that so that more than just those two can participate in the content freely. Which is why I think it's fantastic that they are creating content that revolves around actual diverse squads and not just melee. And I hope all new farming content continues that trend. Not something so broken that they have to create a caster version, which would still leave nonaps melee in the dust. There should be room for all the different types. Instead of one type being forced to buy gear from another. That's not balanced. That anti-aps buff is fantastic. Casters have needed melee to do things for years, it is perfectly fine that some things require the other way around. Class should be something you select because it is fun, not because it is the only way you can make coin and farm. I agree that some timed pvp event isn't the best solution for future farming efforts and that they need a new pve thing for people to farm. So long as it isn't back to something as destructive for the entire playerbase as APS back at it's peak. So long as it isn't nirvana. Nirvana was the worst thing to ever happen to this game, pve wise, imo. I really hated it, and I'm glad that it is dead.

@Johndoe

Sins are not as weak as you're making them out to be. And you have an entire DPH buff, you're supposed to do both. And you're still some of the best farmers.

Eoria - Harshlands · December 2013

Anti-aps buff on bosses needs to stay. You can't just put a reflect on it because people will just get around that with an IG and we'll be back to sin+BM domination of PVE.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver · December 2013

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

*snip*

Though I do get and AGREE with the gist of your post, I still feel the anti melee buff is the wrong way to go about it, surely there is a better way/skill to limit the actual effectiveness of aps/melees while still allowing those and the casters to work in unison, and have a even amount of melees, and casters in squad. (edit) Both classes need to do roughly the same damage in the same amount of time... aps allowed that to happen, but with the anti melee buff, even if we use skills our damage seriously fails in comparison to that of caster... which just does not seem fair at all. (As it is now casters/rangers EASILY outnumber melees in terms of classes.) Only the barb, bm, and sin, are the three true melee classes in game, as every other class can do quite well at a distance, and they don't have to rely near as much on aps/MELEE attacks as those three do... (edit: though out of the three the barb uses skills the most often) especially when compared to the other arguable melee class... seeker. Nw favors casters way too much as it is, not everyone is in epic gear and can withstand 3+ people wailing on them... casters can get away with an insane amount of stupidity/killing others with a significant amount of ease, as well as a lot of them seem perfectly capable of dealing with 3 people or so on them. Though yes they too need decent gear to do that on a regular basis, they still have quite a few innate abilities that allows life on them to be far simplar/easier than on a melee.

I disagree about the anti dps buff... the name itself is absolutely flawed to me as a meleer at heart. (Anti melee is the correct term for it imho.) If a melees damage actually was comparable to that of a casters dph... then it wouldnt be anywhere near as bad. Still I feel the aps buff is way too much especially with the paradise that is nw/mass pvp.

I still feel one of the best solutions to combat a lot of issues in nw is my suggestion about making some of the nw map be 1 on 1 fights only. Obviously not everyone shares that opinion.

I agree about nirvana I hated the instance as well. (I so very rarely ran it... even after i hit +10 5.0) Still acting as if caster never got to run it/wasn't allowed to/couldn't... is so very wrong they could have easily formed their very own squad and do a caster only normal run, sure it would have never been as efficient as a aps heavy run, but still casters could do that, and on top of that, casters eventually got the caster nirvana version of nirvy. Ergo it still could be run by casters... just no where near as effective as the apsers. (Yes the fact that it wasnt as effective lead the apsers to 'control' the market on raps/cannies... it could still be run by casters if they had chosen to do so... though yes it would have been more expensive for a caster to run a regular nirvy that still doesn't change the fact that they could have done it.

Besides I happen to know for a fact that at least on my server casters got to go in those 'oped' aps squads from TIME to TIME... albeit it wasn't often. They still had plenty of chances to run nirvy if they wanted/were in the right place at the right time.

---

Meh this is just coming from an meleer's point of view, I understand there are far more casters on the game, and a lot of what I said will be met with resistance from others, but meh still that is my two cents on the matter.

Another point I want to bring up real quick that was brought up else where before.

Meleers even when in the aps heyday... never owned everywhere... sure some used combos with apo/stealth to really tear up the place, but they were still easy one shots... for the most part... though aye not all were one shots... and if they weren't they were indeed scary for casters. Still when you all can one shot so many people with an extreme amount of ease from a distance... I for one feel that aps kind of balanced it out... to a VERY small extent. (I agree it was unfair that it was able to bypass charms becuase it was hitting too fast but still... i for one feel it balanced it out a LITTLE.)

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Also I agree eoria, perhaps the reflect buff isn't the best thing to put on the boss... however the thing you mentioned... there is a weakness in it.

Apo cooldown = 2 minutes

If the reflect buff showed up every 30 seconds, for 20 seconds... (30 second timer would of course reset AFTER that 20 seconds is up) that, would really limit the effectiveness of using apo to prevent the damage from reflect.

It so depends on how they do it, though yes they would have to tread carefully. They would likely need to boost the defense of the mobs/bos, or their hp a little bit, (not a permanent buff, I mean like lets just say farng's defense is 5k atm... raise it to 15k... something like that... I must admit I am not sure how much exactly that anti melee buff caps out to be... but it does seem like its a ridiculous amount... way too much in fact. Arguably so much so that it has led to an imbalance in power that favors casters)

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Meh stupid long *** wall of text of mine.

I so have the feeling someone's going to snap at something I said, and completely misinterpret what I meant/said. I don't want to get into it with anyone.

It's too damn stressful, trying to show my point, and getting belittled for my beliefs, or having each of my points being completely misinterpreted and having words put into my mouth so to speak.

Anyways I am sure I have typed more than enough... I am going to watch anime... or do something else to keep my mind off of these forums. ;X

Boomz - Harshlands · December 2013

to add a tiny (but ridiculously huge detail) first of all sins were not made for aps, that is an absolute lie. Second of all and most importantly, aps was never supposed to exist in pwi in the first place but rather it was a mistake (or glitch, call it what you want) that pwi made that they never corrected because they made so much money of people trying to get ridiculously high amount of aps. If you ever noticed, aps stacks, which it was never supposed to do. The numbers on aps gears and sets were supposed to be the actual value that it increased your attack speed by. So therefore the max aps was supposed to be ~1.8 aps or in other words about 2.5 aps demon sparked, which would never have made sins the farming or pvp threat that noobs have been used to. The correct way to play a sin is DPH and you will find that sins are so much stronger and more deadly when they are DPH because their damage is off the charts at r9 3rd +12 and they are very very tanky.

Therefore any and all aps arguments hold no ground.

Eoria - Harshlands · December 2013

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Also I agree eoria, perhaps the reflect buff isn't the best thing to put on the boss... however the thing you mentioned... there is a weakness in it.

Apo cooldown = 2 minutes

If the reflect buff showed up every 30 seconds, for 20 seconds... (30 second timer would of course reset AFTER that 20 seconds is up) that, would really limit the effectiveness of using apo to prevent the damage from reflect.

It so depends on how they do it, though yes they would have to tread carefully. They would likely need to boost the defense of the mobs/bos, or their hp a little bit, (not a permanent buff, I mean like lets just say farng's defense is 5k atm... raise it to 15k... something like that... I must admit I am not sure how much exactly that anti melee buff caps out to be... but it does seem like its a ridiculous amount... way too much in fact. Arguably so much so that it has led to an imbalance in power that favors casters)

Apo cd means jack if it can be killed in one spark cycle.

Look, I'm sorry PWI is trying to go back to the whole someone tanks boss, cleric+mystic heals, and DDs DD thing instead of a sin soloing a boss with spark macro and bp heals, but every ****ing APS sin/BM needs to get over it and adapt.

Also, casters benefit the most from anti-aps buff? lol. If it's any class that benefits the most, it's archers.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver · December 2013

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

Apo cd means jack if it can be killed in one spark cycle.

Look, I'm sorry PWI is trying to go back to the whole someone tanks boss, cleric+mystic heals, and DDs DD thing instead of a sin soloing a boss with spark macro and bp heals, but every ****ing APS sin/BM needs to get over it and adapt.

Also, casters benefit the most from anti-aps buff? lol. If it's any class that benefits the most, it's archers.

b:beatup f:defeat

Aye your right about the reflect buff/apo, but in my defense I DID state in that post that perhaps reflect wasn't the best change to/for it.

As for pwi going back to what any game should be doing... that is indeed a good thing. (What I meant to do by bringing up that buff, is simply this: It does too much. *coughlikepurifyproccough* It pretty mcuh kills the effectiveness of having more than a couple of melees per squad, meaning that I can't see people going into dragon den (for example) with more than 1 bm, and 1 sin, as well as barb, leaving 8 spots for an archer, and other casters, due to that buff/melees skill damage seriously failing in comparsion to that of a caster/archer.) (EDIT: YES it is true there are plenty of other instances where aps/melees are still more than welcome, but I really do believe they need to tread carefully adding in that buff with every single boss/mobs that they deliver us so to speak. (I get wanting to make the game more difficult but they still need to tread carefully, or who knows what might happen to the already... fading interest in the melee classes.)

As I said before the aps craze was out of hand, but still the changes that have been brought into game, have arguably done more harm than good. As people have shied away from their melees due to the fact of how much easier casters/archers have it in nw, as well as some of the new instances.

Also

me wrote:

" Arguably so much so that it has led to an imbalance in power that favors casters)"

Not sure how you got the impression that I said 'caster's benefit the most'... I just said it favors casters, but aye you are indeed right, I can't and shouldn't leave archers out of it. Still the anti-melee buff is too much, especially when their is also nw, that favors ranged classes over aps/melee classes.

I am not asking for the aps craze to come back... not in the least/slightest... it NEEDS to stay away. Still the buff + the fact that nw favors range... is arguably just way too much in the nerf/push away from apsing... but yea that is just my opinion. I really doubt it will change anything.

EDIT: I am going to remove what I had posted here... it was pushing things way to much. Still I do not like the way that apology sounded one bit... talk about condescending bs... not to mention a very wrong assumption. << I do NOT want the aps craze back.

Burnout - Harshlands · December 2013

Lets take a look at just how powerful APS is..

In Warsong, a squad of APS can easily kill 5 bosses that all hit for 50k+ damage (which means 1-shot), while also skipping the rest of the instance. They can do this with a grand total of 2 classes - all other classes are just fluff. They basically broke the entire instance as it was supposed to be played.

You'd be lucky as a caster to get in 3 caster nirvanas in an entire day. Full hardcore APS squads could feasibly pass 100+ in a single day easily.

APS breaks everything within the game. There's no way it's ever making a comeback.

Eoria - Harshlands · December 2013

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

b:beatup f:defeat

Aye your right about the reflect buff/apo, but in my defense I DID state in that post that perhaps reflect wasn't the best change to/for it.

As for pwi going back to what any game should be doing... that is indeed a good thing. (What I meant to do by bringing up that buff, is simply this: It does too much. *coughlikepurifyproccough* It pretty mcuh kills the effectiveness of having more than a couple of melees per squad, meaning that I can't see people going into dragon den (for example) with more than 1 bm, and 1 sin, as well as barb, leaving 8 spots for an archer, and other casters, due to that buff/melees skill damage seriously failing in comparsion to that of a caster/archer.) (EDIT: YES it is true there are plenty of other instances where aps/melees are still more than welcome, but I really do believe they need to tread carefully adding in that buff with every single boss/mobs that they deliver us so to speak. (I get wanting to make the game more difficult but they still need to tread carefully, or who knows what might happen to the already... fading interest in the melee classes.)

They pretty much have to put it on every single boss because if they don't, we'll just go right back to APS domination. tbh, I really wouldn't be surprised to see TT changed sometime in the future to reflect this as well seeing how it's really the last bastion of APS farming outside of WS/Lunar (and I will grab popcorn for the forum QQ if it ever actually happens).

Also, I do HDD on a regular basis. My usual squads have no problem inviting multiple BMs/sins especially with Chen around where you need good amount of phys DD. As for barb, if we actually run with one, usually only one per run if we're doing multi-runs with alts.

Not sure how you got the impression that I said 'caster's benefit the most'... I just said it favors casters, but aye you are indeed right, I can't and shouldn't leave archers out of it. Still the anti-melee buff is too much, especially when their is also nw, that favors ranged classes over aps/melee classes.

I am not asking for the aps craze to come back... not in the least/slightest... it NEEDS to stay away. Still the buff + the fact that nw favors range... is arguably just way too much in the nerf/push away from apsing... but yea that is just my opinion. I really doubt it will change anything.

So yea... kindly take back your apology and ******* ** ** **** ****. << I do NOT want the aps craze back.

NW favors gear, not ranged classes.

Edit-

Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »

Lets take a look at just how powerful APS is..

In Warsong, a squad of APS can easily kill 5 bosses that all hit for 50k+ damage (which means 1-shot), while also skipping the rest of the instance. They can do this with a grand total of 2 classes - all other classes are just fluff. They basically broke the entire instance as it was supposed to be played.

You'd be lucky as a caster to get in 3 caster nirvanas in an entire day. Full hardcore APS squads could feasibly pass 100+ in a single day easily.

APS breaks everything within the game. There's no way it's ever making a comeback.

Pretty much this. This is why we'll never have that buff removed from any of the newer bosses or made purgable.

((Though I will say that back when Nirvana was still a thing, I was probably doing around 10 or so Casters a day easily during 2x. But I do believe I made a lot more off of just 2/3/4 manning normal Nirvana as an amp/ddg ***** for OP sins.))

Slivaf - Dreamweaver · December 2013

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

They pretty much have to put it on every single boss because if they don't, we'll just go right back to APS domination. tbh, I really wouldn't be surprised to see TT changed sometime in the future to reflect this as well seeing how it's really the last bastion of APS farming outside of WS/Lunar (and I will grab popcorn for the forum QQ if it ever actually happens).

Also, I do HDD on a regular basis. My usual squads have no problem inviting multiple BMs/sins especially with Chen around where you need good amount of phys DD. As for barb, if we actually run with one, usually only one per run if we're doing multi-runs with alts.

:$ If that does happen... while I obviously will not like it, I honestly don't plan on coming on forums to QQ about it too much, I have QQed enough about other... arguably more important things. I do not want to QQ about every single thing that goes on in game.

Sadly I fear you may be right if they dont put that buff or another quite similar buff on the new bosses... we may very well go back to that aps craze, which is SO... NOT needed.

Also @The dragons den: I hardly ever see my server run it, it was only meant as an example, still people tend to go with whatever is the most effective. Though yes obviously there is, and always has been people who ignore the status quo so to speak, and they are the few diamonds in the rough so to speak, that give people hope that things could change even if only slightly.

Eoria wrote:

NW favors gear, not ranged classes.

Kind of depends on how you look at it, as range/caster classes can have far inferior gears and weapons and still hit far harder/survive arguably longer than melees can even if the melee is in far better gear than the ranged/caster class. (Though yes obviously there are a few intangibles... melees still can't compete with dph against a caster. ;/) (EDIT) I am not even touching on their innate abilities that caster.archers have over a melee. I realize that those don't completely throw things in the favor of a caster/archer, but it does give them a leg up over a melee in mass pvp, especially when they so easily outnumber us, 3 (actual true melees) to 7 ranged/caster classes, and with how much people prefer to be on a ranged/caster for nw... it just adds another thing that tips the favor-scale towards a caster/ranged class.

Eoria wrote:

Edit-

Pretty much this. This is why we'll never have that buff removed from any of the newer bosses or made purgable.

((Though I will say that back when Nirvana was still a thing, I was probably doing around 10 or so Casters a day easily during 2x. But I do believe I made a lot more off of just 2/3/4 manning normal Nirvana as an amp/ddg ***** for OP sins.))

I just really feel that there is a better alternative that doesn't pretty much make melees nigh useless in squads, except for being debuff slaves.

EDIT: I guess I should see that as a silver lining. :$ (Perhaps a reason why I will... hopefully refrain from posting a rant on forums if they do continue to put that buff on bosses.)

ToyMaker_NOT - Raging Tide · December 2013

Just a thought...

I've read how many of us, myself included, think Frostcovered City should be closed off to level 80 and below. But I don't think that's enough.

In addition to closing low level access to high level instances, close high level access to low level instances. Encourage players at similiar level (+/- 10 levels) to play and level together. Better yet, to enter any instance the level range cannot be greater that levels.

For PWI, the code already exists in the form the Thursday Tournament.

Suprprutty - Lost City · December 2013

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Also @The dragons den: I hardly ever see my server run it, it was only meant as an example, still people tend to go with whatever is the most effective.

You need phys DD for Dragon Den and R9r3 DPH sins hit damn hard especially with debuffs. Casters take ages to kill stage2 boss alone since they need to keep running about activating the bubbles while the melees can stay close to the boss, quickly hit/rotate through bubbles and keep hitting the boss. Don't bring examples of instances you've apparently never run.

You need to play some other class since all your posts are pretty much QQ melee sucks and get better gear while you're at it. Don't cry QQunfaircasters 1shot you in NW when you're running around with not even the minimum gear required.

MrJohnDoe - Dreamweaver · December 2013

Suprprutty - Lost City wrote: »

You need phys DD for Dragon Den and R9r3 DPH sins hit damn hard especially with debuffs. Casters take ages to kill stage2 boss alone since they need to keep running about activating the bubbles while the melees can stay close to the boss, quickly hit/rotate through bubbles and keep hitting the boss. Don't bring examples of instances you've apparently never run.

You need to play some other class since all your posts are pretty much QQ melee sucks and get better gear while you're at it. Don't cry QQunfaircasters 1shot you in NW when you're running around with not even the minimum gear required.

You dont need only phy dd's for Hidden Dragons Den, you need at least 2 or 3 phy dd's since the problem is not the boss but a mob that the boss spawns called "Chen" that can only be killed with phy, yes sin's or melee classes there need to dhp, aps dont really work there either.

Suprprutty - Lost City · December 2013

MrJohnDoe - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You dont need only phy dd's for Hidden Dragons Den, you need at least 2 or 3 phy dd's since the problem is not the boss but a mob that the boss spawns called "Chen" that can only be killed with phy, yes sin's or melee classes there need to dhp, aps dont really work there either.

Where did I say "need only phys dd"? I was just replying to that person claiming people would only take 1 bm and 1 sin but unless those two have really OP gear, you'll need more than just that especially when chen yen goes 5.0

Melees have an advantage on the st2 boss too for the reasons I stated as well (this is not related to your quote). When going as caster, I lose a lot of time running around to activate balls and unless I have really high chan it takes more seconds to activate them through casting a skill (unless psy/mystic I guess) when melees can just quickly poke a ball.
Also, pros will just triple spark to resist the deadly attacks, no need to even leave the platform!
I don't know how people do st3 boss, but if doing it on the pillar casters need to rely on the phys DDs to kill chen yen and the turtles (can't really run away). The debuff to take more damage + turtles suck unless you quickly purify or lucky wep purify proc happens.

Anyhow that's kinda off topic >.>

Eoria - Harshlands · December 2013

ToyMaker_NOT - Raging Tide wrote: »

Just a thought...

I've read how many of us, myself included, think Frostcovered City should be closed off to level 80 and below. But I don't think that's enough.

In addition to closing low level access to high level instances, close high level access to low level instances. Encourage players at similiar level (+/- 10 levels) to play and level together. Better yet, to enter any instance the level range cannot be greater that levels.

Low levels are so dead that this would be a ******n nightmare. You'd basically scare off all the newbies because they wouldn't be able to get their fb19s done and anyone that made an alt would probably have to hope someone makes an alt with them and then hope that they can do instances together with the combination of classes they choose.

Look, I know you guys wanna do that, but it's too ******n late for that ****. If you'd have done it two or three years ago, it would have been okay, but now when there's very little people coming in? loludumb.

MrJohnDoe - Dreamweaver · December 2013

I find hilarious how some people is against aps and melee classes, even comments like changing TT bosses to be aps unfriendly. f:laugh

Just an example on how those buffs are only to slow down aps and not make melee classes use dhp, like in COA bosses, you think i change my set to dhp or any other melee class? lol I would take all the event time to kill one boss, of course I don't and I just aps like before, difference is that now I get out in the end with much less drops then a psy with same weapon refine and gear which is fair with the new anti aps mentality i guess.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver · December 2013

Suprprutty - Lost City wrote: »

You need phys DD for Dragon Den and R9r3 DPH sins hit damn hard especially with debuffs. Casters take ages to kill stage2 boss alone since they need to keep running about activating the bubbles while the melees can stay close to the boss, quickly hit/rotate through bubbles and keep hitting the boss. Don't bring examples of instances you've apparently never run.

You need to play some other class since all your posts are pretty much QQ melee sucks and get better gear while you're at it. Don't cry QQunfaircasters 1shot you in NW when you're running around with not even the minimum gear required.

I didn't state that phys dd's werent needed for dragons den, I only stated it isn't wise from what I have seen/heard to take more than a few in their at a time.

^ That is something that I said in that post you quoted, (edit; of course I paraphrased a bit/restated it in another way... still I did post in that post) I know I am not that good at articulating what I mean, but really surely you/others who actually read the post in its entirety would have comprehended that, despite how confusing my posts can be at times.

EDIT: Hmm after seeing your reply to johndoe your comment makes more sense... you so left out a huge needed word there that would make your post make a lot more sense.

"You need more than a couple of phys dd's for dragon's den"

I do not mean to be rude and correct you, but that is something quite important, and needed that wouldn't have drawn my counter so to speak.

I know my english is far from perfect, but still some sentences/replies when poorly written are going to be misinterpreted from time to time. (Happens to me all the time) /edit

"You need to play another class"

1. that solves nothing for melees, casters QQed about aps, I didn't tell them to reroll/stop QQing, they QQed for a damn good reason, and forunately there has indeed been a change of that pace, but still I do believe that pwi/pwe are pushing things a bit too much with the changes. (Yes change meets with resistance, but it can also be a good thing, AS long as it doesn't go too overboard.)

2. "All my posts are pretty much QQ" YOu so haven't even seen a fraction of my posts, I usually (<--- KEYWORD) do not post anything about a melee being this or that, until a caster, or archer, or even other meleers post arguable misleading information about them, that I feel needs to be corrected. (You all do the same with me when I post misleading info about casters/archers, which I fully expect you to do, I welcome 'corrections'... but yea that so doesn't mean I have to accept them, or just ignore their posts like their rebuttal has no... counter.)

Eoria - Harshlands · December 2013

The only things you need for HDD are a healer and enough phys DD to kill Chen. The class composition afterwards can be literally any combination. ****, you could run it with all sins+BMs with one healer.

Please stop with your persecution complex.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver · December 2013

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

The only things you need for HDD are a healer and enough phys DD to kill Chen. The class composition afterwards can be literally any combination. ****, you could run it with all sins+BMs with one healer.

Please stop with your persecution complex.

Really was the last line really necessary? <<

I am so trying not to snap at you for that... unneeded, and uncalled for... rudeish statement.

---

Apparently what I have seen/heard about it is wrong. << (My eyes/power of deduction must be that of a 2 year old. /sarcasm )

What about the first part? Do you mean to tell me a bm/sin can actually sit there and tank those mobs that only have a weakness to one element? Perhaps if they're all charmed/have apo/perhaps cleric can heal each from the center... still it doesn't seem that feasible to me at all. (This first part is admittedly the only part that I have seen, I made my replies about the DD final bosses, from what I heard, and I came to an conclusion on what I actually seen and heard, not to mention that it is indeed true every new boss/instance they have come out with they have added in this buff... which it does make sense... still I do feel it's becoming too mainstream, but yea that is just MY opinion. )

So yea... I do not agree with you that you could feasibly run a dragon den it it's entirety with just a healer, and the rest being bm's and sin's.

Vanflyheight - Heavens Tear · December 2013

i dont know whats worse, the aps craze from the olden days after the raging tide expansion, r9 gear itself, or the weapon procs on r9 such as these three in particular. Spirit BlackHole, Purify Spell, and God of Frenzy. The aps craze did hurt the game, but it only led to an even bigger harm when r9-r9s3 was released. The gap in power compared to defenses and skill, was made quite wide where power could dominate instead of having aps dominate. One led to the other even though it wasnt seen in its entirety till r9s3 came around. Even though r9 was the dominating gear factor at first, it was balanced out when they released nirvy s3. Now it seems like you have to be r9s3 or you cant compete with the rest of the well geared in any kind of pvp such as in particular nw and tw.

In the last nw that i was in which was friday night, a barb mentioned how a sin did a 28k crit and it was a one shot blow which shouldnt of happened. Now that sins mostly get their r9s3 daggers along with keeping aps gear, sins have become more deadlier than when the aps craze was around. Also speaking of casters, regardless or not whether the purify spell proc should be a good or bad thing, but when did it become a normal thing for casters to do certain things that were mostly asked for to be done by a tanking class? i thought barbs were the main tanking class instead of having casters take over that kind of position. Plus werent casters suppose to have alot of mp for skill casting while having average to semi above average hp for survivability.

ApocaIypto - Dreamweaver · December 2013

again this topic. stupid.

purify is op, yes. but god of frenzy is as op, because it makes tank classes have the highest dph in the game.

bms barbs etc all want more damages. ok. then we reduce your hp and defs ok? your suposed to be tanks, classes that supports the damage dealers (called carries in other games *cough*) kill things. tanks are suposed to live as long as possible, while having debuffs, CCs, and some base damage.

now ok you want same damage as assassins, casters and archers. but then, whats the point playing those? since tanks will have 1.5-2,5 times hp and high defs.

you say melees are useless in NW, but then how come a team that has a barb,bm,seeker,cleric,6 dds, will be stronger than a team with 9 dds + cleric? because thats how teams should be built.

Crazybladema - Harshlands · December 2013

*facepalm* why do you guys even bother trying to explain why purify needs to be nerfed? Its like asking sins in their "day in the sun" to not defend aps.

Now casters have their day in the sun.

Don't like it? Then leave and spend your time on something else. Thats what I did. I didn't stay on the forums and whine about it all the time.

The game is unbalanced and is geared only to those who wish to waste real life money on it.

Its just the way it is.

Vanflyheight - Heavens Tear · December 2013

ApocaIypto - Dreamweaver wrote: »

again this topic. stupid.

purify is op, yes. but god of frenzy is as op, because it makes tank classes have the highest dph in the game.

bms barbs etc all want more damages. ok. then we reduce your hp and defs ok? your suposed to be tanks, classes that supports the damage dealers (called carries in other games *cough*) kill things. tanks are suposed to live as long as possible, while having debuffs, CCs, and some base damage.

now ok you want same damage as assassins, casters and archers. but then, whats the point playing those? since tanks will have 1.5-2,5 times hp and high defs.

you say melees are useless in NW, but then how come a team that has a barb,bm,seeker,cleric,6 dds, will be stronger than a team with 9 dds + cleric? because thats how teams should be built.

Stupid? not really. The rest of the reply: agreed and well said.

Crazybladema - Harshlands wrote: »

*facepalm* why do you guys even bother trying to explain why purify needs to be nerfed? Its like asking sins in their "day in the sun" to not defend aps.

Now casters have their day in the sun.

Don't like it? Then leave and spend your time on something else. Thats what I did. I didn't stay on the forums and whine about it all the time.

The game is unbalanced and is geared only to those who wish to waste real life money on it.

Its just the way it is.

Why do the trolls like to be the ones on the bridge trying to derail it. If we dont like it, then we should of left pw when it all started but instead, we're still here trying to show the correct path that pw should be taking instead of the one that they already are on. yes the game is too unbalanced, but that doesnt mean to just simply abandon it when theres still potential with pw regardless of how much the china devs keep **** it up.

If you want to troll here by saying (oh i left for something better only to come back and troll again.) Then this thread is not for you. Plus with the (just the way it is) factor, its not that way in its entirely. Theres still things that can be done if the devs can and are willing to do it, along with listening to the good sound advice of its playerbase. Not from players who seek to dismantle the game with their instant gratification and power egotrips. Its only the way it is now cause of how pw listened to the wrong side and now they're suffering for it cause of it. If a company doesnt want to listen to its customers (or playerbase) then players will stop fueling the fire and will try to put it out with a sand bucket. If pw is to survive, then they will have to start making smart decisions as much as having players do the same.

Crazybladema - Harshlands · December 2013

Vanflyheight - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Stupid? not really. The rest of the reply: agreed and well said.

Why do the trolls like to be the ones on the bridge trying to derail it. If we dont like it, then we should of left pw when it all started but instead, we're still here trying to show the correct path that pw should be taking instead of the one that they already are on. yes the game is too unbalanced, but that doesnt mean to just simply abandon it when theres still potential with pw regardless of how much the china devs keep **** it up.

If you want to troll here by saying (oh i left for something better only to come back and troll again.) Then this thread is not for you. Plus with the (just the way it is) factor, its not that way in its entirely. Theres still things that can be done if the devs can and are willing to do it, along with listening to the good sound advice of its playerbase. Not from players who seek to dismantle the game with their instant gratification and power egotrips. Its only the way it is now cause of how pw listened to the wrong side and now they're suffering for it cause of it. If a company doesnt want to listen to its customers (or playerbase) then players will stop fueling the fire and will try to put it out with a sand bucket. If pw is to survive, then they will have to start making smart decisions as much as having players do the same.

Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I am a troll.

Plus, I didnt leave this game for another game. I decided I wanted to do something else with my time, when it went sour. Which, was pretty much kayaking and some martial arts.

As for your comment about whether this game has "potential". It may or may not. But I doubt this game will ever have the potential it had in the past or the reputation it had. The game is a game, it's not a great loss if it dies. The company regularly turns a blind eye to its customers. That's just something I can't put up with. Many people I'm sure feel the same way.

Power creep

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