Abit more accuracy and crit vs loss in pattack

opkossy · November 2013

So you proved you do more damage than a vit BM who is likely not as well geared as you in a godawful long fight that shouldn't have lasted anywhere near that long and that you can tank his damage even though that's more about your gear than build and this is supposed to prove.... what exactly?

I'd like to point out something though. What did it take for you to win? HF, mire, and a chain of crits with a zerkcrit at the end. Guess what builds that utilize dex are better at getting! And, of course, your video doesn't involve fighting someone with substantial evasion, at which point you'd have even more issues landing that sort of combo due to misses.

Oh well. It's fairly obvious those here aren't convincing you and seeing as you aren't exactly fighting the most skilled people around, I doubt you'll actually see the purpose behind the things being said here.

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide · November 2013

Yes were pretty much par on gear cept the gems like the video says in title... i miss some yeah.. i dont mind that cause in the end i can wait all day long for my combos to go thru where as the opponents have yo rely on somthing to tank the hits that land... and ill be honest yes with dex i wud hit more often maybe even crit a litle more.. but at the end of the day what wud that achieve me possibly btr lock cycle and faster kill on a 1v1.. that being said tho with that dex the dmg goes so much lower there is having to put more moves in a combo to bypass charm.. with being sage my lock isnt that reliable anyway.. and adding more moves to combos means i gotta use a pole.. hence i need more dex again unless i use npc pole but then again why go thru all that trouble.. in the end i win anyway to me its all the same does it take 4 seconds or 40 minutes.. i still like my str for more than just 1 enemy.. like i said its every1's own choice how they make theyre toon.. mine is simply put a dd pike dmg zerkftw kinda thing.. if id want to lock forever and gain charm bypassing thay way i wud be demon.. but i see no need.. and ofc theres the long list of 100% accurate skills which make up to me everything i lost in accuracy.. simply put i like my bt and higland just plain 1 shotting a mass than to cc and support.. its how i want to play so trying to convince me otherwise is futile... i merely wanted to state that i dont get the point of having 300 dex.. so i voiced my opinion..

Its not about what build is the best its about what suites you best.

Also to kossy with said high evasion opponent theyre la.. and dont need any combo just 1zc and done..

TheDan - Sanctuary · November 2013

If you had more accuracy and crit % you'd have finished him in half the time... But since you cut your average DPS down so much with the misses and less zerk crit rates you took forever. The ability to kill somebody as a BM is basically being able to drop 1.5x their HP in less than 10 seconds. BMs don't really have any ultis or big hitting moves to kill people at 51% HP, so that means BMs actually depend upon DPS believe it or not. And with your accuracy and crit % loss, your DPS is down, your DPH is higher yes but at the cost of your DPS.

You can go with whatever build you'd like but my philosophy has always been "work smarter, not harder." You're built like a barb right now, for Arma at half life using big DPH skills, but BMs just don't have that kind of skill set to utilize...

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide · November 2013

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

If you had more accuracy and crit % you'd have finished him in half the time... But since you cut your average DPS down so much with the misses and less zerk crit rates you took forever. The ability to kill somebody as a BM is basically being able to drop 1.5x their HP in less than 10 seconds. BMs don't really have any ultis or big hitting moves to kill people at 51% HP, so that means BMs actually depend upon DPS believe it or not. And with your accuracy and crit % loss, your DPS is down, your DPH is higher yes but at the cost of your DPS.

You can go with whatever build you'd like but my philosophy has always been "work smarter, not harder." You're built like a barb right now, for Arma at half life using big DPH skills, but BMs just don't have that kind of skill set to utilize...

So all the 30k+ zc i do to selbuffed la's and aa's dont count as enugh dph? Show me an endgame toon in la with 30k+ hp

Suprprutty - Lost City · November 2013

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide wrote: »

that being said tho with that dex the dmg goes so much lower there is having to put more moves in a combo to bypass charm

Not here to comment on your build since I don't really care what you do with your toon but there's a flaw in your logic..

You say that with more dex you lose pure damage so you need to put more moves into your combos. You already need to put more moves in your combos because some of them miss anyway. Your videos showed that.
It's almost the same thing, except that the former has a higher chance to actually kill someone.

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide · November 2013

Suprprutty - Lost City wrote: »

Not here to comment on your build since I don't really care what you do with your toon but there's a flaw in your logic..

You say that with more dex you lose pure damage so you need to put more moves into your combos. You already need to put more moves in your combos because some of them miss anyway. Your videos showed that.
It's almost the same thing, except that the former has a higher chance to actually kill someone.

True but then again i only need long combos for other ha's which i find myself very rarely against..

TheDan - Sanctuary · November 2013

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide wrote: »

So all the 30k+ zc i do to selbuffed la's and aa's dont count as enugh dph? Show me an endgame toon in la with 30k+ hp

The point is, you wouldn't be able to hit an endgame character for 30k if they had the proper ornaments refined and shards... No LA or AA is going to stand still and tank an HF combo, the kill combo is obvious. Therefore DPH is worthless without a balance of DPS. End game casters on my server are 20-30k phys def and 20k hp buffed with close to 80-100 def level.

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide · November 2013

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

The point is, you wouldn't be able to hit an endgame character for 30k if they had the proper ornaments refined and shards... Therefore DPH is worthless without a balance of DPS.

Seems i need to record more for you since i get those 20-30k zc pretty often.. and i dont refer to lower geared ppl.. aand you say buffed when ppl are buffed in rt its cause mass pvp .. theres allways a purge from som1 it doesnt have to be me purging.

Ps ur correct on the hf combo just in rt no1 evades it they actually stand thru it or waste ad/ig and after that flame tsunami + mire on an endgame selfbuffed la will 1 hit them.. hence i dont get ur point about dph

opkossy · November 2013

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide wrote: »

i dont get the point of having 300 dex.. so i voiced my opinion

This stood out at me and I have to ask...

Who the hell said anything about 300 dex? Seriously it's even advised to NOT get too much dex after a point. We've been saying your lack of dex does you more harm than good, sure... but not one person here has been saying to go overboard on dex either. There is a balance you'd want to have the easiest time killing without making the massive damage sacrifice you seem to be thinking occurs.

Of course, the small amount of base damage sacrificed doesn't mean much when statted properly and seeing as you've gone to the stand of zerks and all that as considered part of your base now, when you toss those in and the easier time getting zerkcrits it actually increases your killing ability.

And since you're quite confident about your ability to tank damage (which would not be lowered by adding some dex) I really don't see a reason to accept having fights drawn out longer than they need to be and having to burn more charm when you could be killing in half the time. But that's just me, I suppose.

Edit: People are actually stupid enough to stand still in HF combos instead of... you know... kiting or the like or immediately stunlocking you so you only manage to have burned 2 sparks? No wonder you don't see any problems with things as they are if you aren't fighting people skilled enough to deal with basic concepts like that.

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide · November 2013

OPKossy wrote: »

This stood out at me and I have to ask...

Who the hell said anything about 300 dex? Seriously it's even advised to NOT get too much dex after a point. We've been saying your lack of dex does you more harm than good, sure... but not one person here has been saying to go overboard on dex either. There is a balance you'd want to have the easiest time killing without making the massive damage sacrifice you seem to be thinking occurs.

Of course, the small amount of base damage sacrificed doesn't mean much when statted properly and seeing as you've gone to the stand of zerks and all that as considered part of your base now, when you toss those in and the easier time getting zerkcrits it actually increases your killing ability.

And since you're quite confident about your ability to tank damage (which would not be lowered by adding some dex) I really don't see a reason to accept having fights drawn out longer than they need to be and having to burn more charm when you could be killing in half the time. But that's just me, I suppose.

Edit: People are actually stupid enough to stand still in HF combos instead of... you know... kiting or the like or immediately stunlocking you so you only manage to have burned 2 sparks? No wonder you don't see any problems with things as they are if you aren't fighting people skilled enough to deal with basic concepts like that.

The original poster asked about more dex on tip of what i assume is 200 ... and maybe i dont find skilled ppl maybe i do theyre just overconfident cause of the lack of bms in general or the fact that every other bm poses no threat even with hf... and just incase were clear i paln to get more dex just not by restatting anything but by means of engraving and more accu from titles.. i know i miss now but when im done i wont at least not as much.. and to missing isnt an issue.. nor is charm usage i got enugh charms to last a life time b:chuckle

Aeliah - Dreamweaver · November 2013

Yeah... not advising you to have 300 dext, but, instead of 50 dext, why not at bare minimum, 100? Or at least so you can use claws... around 150ish ? You sacrifice a *bit* of damage, but you gain so much for it: better stun locks, more zerk crits, more dps, more evasion, ability to use purge pole.

You are right, you hit harder in pure str build. The funny thing is that you often hit harder than necessary, but less frequently than you'd like. In other words, when you zerk crit, on a purged person perhaps, you do well over that person's max hp. 30k on an arcane with 16k base hp? Overkill. However, you could get those zerk crits more often, and miss less on the light armors (who you admit aren't hard to kill anyways) to finish fights a lot faster.

As Dan has pointed out, sure you hit like a truck... when you zerk crit, and when you don't miss. But sacrificing just a little bit of damage could give you a ton more reliability to your kill combos, allowing you to still kill the same people you already kill, but much faster on average.

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide · November 2013

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Yeah... not advising you to have 300 dext, but, instead of 50 dext, why not at bare minimum, 100? Or at least so you can use claws... around 150ish ? You sacrifice a *bit* of damage, but you gain so much for it: better stun locks, more zerk crits, more dps, more evasion, ability to use purge pole.

You are right, you hit harder in pure str build. The funny thing is that you often hit harder than necessary, but less frequently than you'd like. In other words, when you zerk crit, on a purged person perhaps, you do well over that person's max hp. 30k on an arcane with 16k base hp? Overkill. However, you could get those zerk crits more often, and miss less on the light armors (who you admit aren't hard to kill anyways) to finish fights a lot faster.

As Dan has pointed out, sure you hit like a truck... when you zerk crit, and when you don't miss. But sacrificing just a little bit of damage could give you a ton more reliability to your kill combos, allowing you to still kill the same people you already kill, but much faster on average.

Well that 50 dex u keep quoting is the base with just emp all gear on atm its like 90 and once i get my engravings done thats another 44 dex + i mite swap my g11 ambers to g12 and titlea will give me alot of accuracy too.. just cant find any emblems to engrave with ... but for now its more than enugh for my needs. Alltho once i get all that done ill drain my base dex to 3 .. not quite sure yet where that leaves me but ill find out some day.

TheDan - Sanctuary · November 2013

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide wrote: »

Well that 50 dex u keep quoting is the base with just emp all gear on atm its like 90 and once i get my engravings done thats another 44 dex + i mite swap my g11 ambers to g12 and titlea will give me alot of accuracy too.. just cant find any emblems to engrave with ... but for now its more than enugh for my needs. Alltho once i get all that done ill drain my base dex to 3 .. not quite sure yet where that leaves me but ill find out some day.

When you compare stats it always includes gear, so you aren't really 50 dex if with tome and other orns it's over 100. I'm 200 dex including gear, so maybe 130 ish base, with my own emp tome and other gear. I use garnet shards in my weapon. Maybe if you had specified what your total dex was / accuracy was, it might have made more sense, including any amber shards etc.

You might be closer to what may be the standard 120-150 dex be if you have amber shards in weapon too.

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide · November 2013

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

When you compare stats it always includes gear, so you aren't really 50 dex if with tome and other orns it's over 100. I'm 200 dex including gear, so maybe 130 ish base, with my own emp tome and other gear. I use garnet shards in my weapon. Maybe if you had specified what your total dex was / accuracy was, it might have made more sense, including any amber shards etc.

You might be closer to what may be the standard 120-150 dex be if you have amber shards in weapon too.

yes i have double ambers g11 and cause im sage i got p deff ring so i got 2x 50% accu rings and i have dex engravings (not double cause i cant find the emblems like i said) and i got half of the accuracy titles done (cant seem to get the wb ones done since rt maint is random at best when it comes to back online time) and yeah my accuracy is at like 3,2k atm it will go higher tho hence the fact i dont see points in 200+ dex cause u can get decent accuracuy with just plain flat out str u just need all the titles + ambers (which i will make g12 someday) (another 300 accu more) etc..

to help you out even more heres basically my calc.. i had to add dallsorts of weird engravements to match the values i got in game... dont mind them but the stat window is pretty close to mine now.
http://pwcalc.com/4035230c3f851dd8

TheDan - Sanctuary · November 2013

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide wrote: »

yes i have double ambers g11 and cause im sage i got p deff ring so i got 2x 50% accu rings and i have dex engravings (not double cause i cant find the emblems like i said) and i got half of the accuracy titles done (cant seem to get the wb ones done since rt maint is random at best when it comes to back online time) and yeah my accuracy is at like 3,2k atm it will go higher tho hence the fact i dont see points in 200+ dex cause u can get decent accuracuy with just plain flat out str u just need all the titles + ambers (which i will make g12 someday) (another 300 accu more) etc..

to help you out even more heres basically my calc.. i had to add dallsorts of weird engravements to match the values i got in game... dont mind them but the stat window is pretty close to mine now.
http://pwcalc.com/4035230c3f851dd8

I've seen people do the same, but I did the math long ago with slightly better results using garnets in weapon in place of Ambers from the STR I lose from DEX, and many skills BM use are weapon damage so it can make up for the lack of STR with higher weapon damage.

Regardless the damage output is similar since BMs with 200 dex use garnet gems in weapon for damage multipliers with str/phys attack mods on rings, rather than the other way around... I like the phys attack mods since it counts as weapon damage, and DEX giving crit accuracy and evasion mods instead of pure accuracy.

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide · November 2013

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

I've seen people do the same, but I did the math long ago with slightly better results using garnets in weapon in place of Ambers from the STR I lose from DEX, and many skills BM use are weapon damage so it can make up for the lack of STR with higher weapon damage.

Regardless the damage output is similar since BMs with 200 dex use garnet gems in weapon for damage multipliers with str/phys attack mods on rings, rather than the other way around... I like the phys attack mods since it counts as weapon damage, and DEX giving crit accuracy and evasion mods instead of pure accuracy.

well there we differ i've seen u play and i have high respect for u .. u truly do wonders with ur bm ... but i like being different in all aspects of life anyway so its natural for me to go sage when most go demon its natural for me to be full dph peak dmg when most go for stun cycles... all this topped with my strong lagg issues playing this game from across the atlantic is what made me do the decisions i made.. this style just suit me btr and is easyer for me to handle b:cute

aka with even using hotkeys a steady 550ms at best scenario will make a diff towards others .. in mas pvp im lucky to be below 1000ms

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · November 2013

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide wrote: »

yes i have double ambers g11 and cause im sage i got p deff ring so i got 2x 50% accu rings and i have dex engravings

to help you out even more heres basically my calc.. i had to add dallsorts of weird engravements to match the values i got in game... dont mind them but the stat window is pretty close to mine now.
http://pwcalc.com/4035230c3f851dd8

Had to lol at this. Most of the arguments have been against a 50 dex bm and now he's a 10 dex base bm with 111 dex geared >.<

Hope you're recording you videos as teaching tools. WTB marrows? Amazing your opponents aren't kiting or leaping out of your combos. Most of your opponents seem to be underskilled although I saw a decent sin in there. Your playstyle is very similar to a vit barbs, honestly. You just survive long enough to eventually get your 1-3 hit combo. Since your setup requires 2 sparks and use of your genie its actually harder to setup and if your opponents use chi suppression (pretty easy to do against a sage bm since we can Mo Tsu's twice as often as you can Li's) then you'd be pretty helpless most the fight. Kind of a weird choice to also have disolve on your genie. Luckily you didn't fight anyone that did that.

You've already defeated yourself in several areas. You have a world class sloppy stunlock. I'm assuming that's because of the misses you've given up on actually chaining stuns. You "have" a purge weapon but don't use it because purge axes have such low attack rate and don't work with most skills so you seem to have stopped using that, too. Your genie setup is also based on movement debuffs and amps so you can setup your combo without relying on your own accuracy.

Btw, having garnets in your weapon would add about 1060 phys attack. You might be doing less dd than a dex bm. Still, +12 r9t3 axes with 132 attack levels and all the bells and whistles of r9t3, josds, and full NW gear you'll hit hard no matter what, 200 dex or 50.

To the OP: I wouldn't make any decisions right now. With the reincarnation system coming out people will be getting about 70 more stats. This means higher dexed opponents. We may also get fixes to our titles so more attributes there. Since my r9t3 is at 200 dex, when I swap to aps gear I'm only 193 dex so I figured I'd bump it up to 220 dex r9t3 and 213 dex aps, or maybe just 207 dex r9t3 and 200 dex aps.

Aeliah - Dreamweaver · November 2013

Ok, that makes sense I admit. If you play with high lag, you probably can't pull off really great stun locks *anyways*. In that case, you might just be better off gambling on a few really high hits. Also I was basing 50 dext off of a post you made earlier in this thread. If you are, in fact, closer to 100, thats not nearly as bad; and at least you seem to recognize the need to increase your accuracy as much as possible, if you are using accuracy gems and also trying to increase dext through engravings.

JoeBlack - Harshlands · December 2013

You can go Inside Forum Harshland and check some videos about TWs of Hunter bojan, guess similar or lower gears , Mix vit stone/Josd cause i saw him got around 23-25k hp unbuffs. But with psychisch buffs, a good example for mass Pvp WR. BTW still RT Server cant compare to Lost City /Harshland ones.

Jaabg - Sanctuary · December 2013

Living in the world of censorship, i can't watch any of the youtube videos linked here.

I am still not sure what the topic/s being discussed here are. I did read that OPKossy mention a 300 dex build. I recall in the previous threads we discussed the issue, i said it was possible through tomes+engravings to get 300 dex, without having to restat your str.

I also noticed the numbers of 30k~40k hits on LA and AA characters being used. Dan and Saku can tell you more, but from what i recall, even with my +12 axes, a zerk crit on the beasts on our servers do not get me those results. I get 2k~14k usually on decent geared, refined, sharded r9 3rd cast people. I do get 20k~60k zerk/crits on tt90, 99, 80 people, but i presume you were not fighting those people.

From what i feel so far, most casters have a similar amount of pdef as bm do, plus they have high hp on our servers. They are hard to kill alone.

People mentioned setup on skills and combos to kill. I haven't done 1vs1, but from what i gather tactics are similar to pvp in terms of what you do when you are amped, debuffed. We exit the area, and out of the person's range.

You see a seeker set up their zerk crit magic hits, exit the area. You see the wizzy do their reduce fire damage thing on you, you blade hurl the person and exit, or just exit. See a cleric, pray to the powers to be you are not going to be slept, sealed for the next 30~50 seconds. You see an archer, that has done bv on you, or set up boa, you exit. See a sin pop up next to you, has chill on, and hitting you for 5k, best to put some distance there while you get things organised.

I have never had people stand around to take on my hf in any of the fights i have been in, unless they did not notice the hf. Those who stand around are the ones who are stunned, as soon as stun wears off, guess who the closest target is b:cry.

In short, no one really stands around to get pummeled by other classes for combo skills.

To the op: As for the dex issue, it is an annoyance to miss the sins,archers that you know that you can kill with your aoe (in nw, tw), but your skills miss each time. Engraving might be an option for you. Personally i would say rather than spending more money (if you do) on gear, get a better net connection. My biggest handicap in fights is my lag. My ping is 500~3k usually. Before i had good net, my ping used to be 100~300. PVE works fine, but pvp gets issues.

Saethos - Raging Tide · December 2013

There's 2 types of BMs on Raging Tides. All gear and no skill, or all skill and no gear. Makes me want to load my visa and get +10 with half vit half Jades just to show people how it's done. But this isn't a discussion about skill...

As far as crit rates go, sage BMs will have to focus more on sustaining themselves. Sage Highland Cleave grants a beautiful crit bonus, but is unreliable. However, I often spam it with a combo ready. Don't get me wrong, this is by no means an excuse for less dex, just a coping method for BMs like myself that need to get crits to do anything.

I call myself a pure axe BM, but that's not true. My build is 150 dex, the rest in strength. I always wear 2 accuracy rings for a total of 3k accuracy. I still miss 10% of the time against seekers and BMs, I miss 15% of the time on LA classes, so I need to use my skills carefully. This also makes for me needing to reserve my 100% accuracy skills like Smack and Tsunami and even Blade Hurl for Crowd Control. I keep my enemy locked as long as I can, bottom line is if I stun someone long enough, eventually they will die, if they don't die, then the fight will probably not end. This is on equal gear, of course. If someone has superior gear and I can't kill them in my stuns, I'll more than likely be the one dieing.

The biggest problem with low accuracy isn't even your damage suffering. It's your stuns suffering. If Aeolian, Drake Bash, and even our slows miss, then we suffer. BM is not the highest DPS physical class, sin takes that one easily with high crits and high accuracy, so if you want to be a class that hits hard with stun capabilities, then you want to aim for being a sin, that way your stuns are at least reliable.

Set aside that when you HF a crowd you'll only land it on other BMs and barbs, look at stuns and slows alone. People often scatter from a BM, Roar takes the obvious lock there, but there's also Fissure. Now, one could argue Bolt of Tyreseus, which is a valid fist skill, but if you're using it as an immob only then you may be doing it wrong. Fissure is a good slow to keep people that don't have holy path close. If you want an immob, I like to use Whirlwind. It's brief, but effective. Mainly I try to keep people crowded during HF, so I won't have the chi for Bolt anyway.

Once HF is down I can't do much with my current weapon, so I back off and surely enough, like sheep and me being the hound, people clutter when HF is ready again.

But without the dex to hit when you use HF and fissure, you aren't even touching them and you are at best a minor inconvenience. Particularly when purify spell removes your stun. There's just not much you can do other than stay alive, which is good, sponge some damage so your team doesn't have to, but it would be better if you were being a threat. When I have the flag in NW and a BM uses Drake Bash on me it's hilarious when they miss. I just keep on trucking.

When it comes to accuracy and crit I think anything below 140 is essentially no good. Yes, when you hit it hurts, but it's not a matter of how hard you hit in every situation, it's more often a matter of how often you hit. We have some really fast hitting skills, so you can sue a slow but hard hit, or a series of Quick not-so-hard hits and still deal some heavy damage. The problem with missing is you do nothing, put a skill on cooldown, and let your enemy take some time to prepare.

In a 1v1 situation, I always use HF for a kill just like you and anyone else, but I always thought of it as a compensating for a "handicap", I have 6 seconds to kill them, that means 5-8 skills depending on how I chain it. If HF misses, I need chi again. Easier with sage, but it's got a cooldown and I still need to stun them, so I have to build all the way back up again. But if I hit, they die. Simple as that.

EDIT: And as far as 40k crit zerks go on 60 dex builds...Is that really necessary? You won't get that on a barb, so at most your enemy has 30k HP, and that's on a total titan, most people don't have even that. That means that 20k is enough for a charm bypass, and in many cases a oneshot. 15k is even enough to manage, so the 20k without zerk is still invalid.

WangZi - Dreamweaver · January 2014

I'm sitting at minimal dex (with gear on) to use fists when I switch to aps gear, but with r9rr gear on, it's at 182 dex but I have 42% crit due to new passive skills and the war avatar cards, so I don't really find a point in having a lot more dex just for crit/accuracy/etc
So far, I like having that amount of dex and 741 str, I find it works for me but I guess it depends on each person's playing style and what they prefer

illuzionnn · January 2014

Hey, i've read all message you wrote but i will need some explication more cause with all new skills for each class, all cards, nuema and double reborn, I will ask you some thingy b:laugh

Atm am BM dark R9rr i've 749 Stre, 200 Dext, 37% Crit, 43xx Accuraty and 24xx Evasion.

I've thinking about the full stren BM for have like all class approximatly 910+ Streng Full Gear and with lvl up.

( I was 104 so i will won 20 points in few and some more like 30-40 totally more after some month ) .

My Question is : If I go With only 100 Dext and 100 More in Strenght ( Wanna play with my Axes +12, Purged Pole Axe ( purge + Accuraty ) and my Defense Lvl pole ax ( Defence lvl + Reduce magical attack + HP ).

I will ofc go with 2* G12 Amber on Axes R9 and after same on Purge Pole Axe, but What will advence to my accuraty / evasion ? will I lose 40+% of it ?

Am afraid to losing to much on it cause versus Arcane Class, that will be ok, but Vs Archer / Sin / Seeker / Bm and other barb ? what will happen ?

I hope some of you understand me in that position.

I Will wait your answers and do more research on my side and after, I think we will can talk of that cause have see some vids on Youtube and I don't find alot of BM full Strenght and Dark

Cya in few all, and enjoy to play bm b:laugh

Morridune - Raging Tide · January 2014

i some what feel 910 str is a little over the top lol and ppl will soon learn ur gimped the sec ur acc is debuffed or their evasion is buffed (there are numerous way to do this) saethos kinda hit it on the head you need to balance ur damage with the actual ability to hit. most opponents will be ranged so most you're time will be spent running after ppl if you're hit rate drops the more things like apoc deff charms come into play making charms a lot harder to bypass plus lowering dex impacts your base crit chance meaning zerk crits become more of a rarity at the end of the day dead is dead it dosent rly matter if u deal 1pt more than their max hp or 5x their max hp consistent strikes to knock out their deff charms, lock them down and land those crits and zerks i think will prove more efficient

Saethos - Raging Tide · January 2014

Speaking of accuracy, we need to discuss the rebirth system.

Sins and archers can now achieve up to 750 dexterity with r9 on, and with the stage 3 Nirvana adding 330 evasion, they have 7830 evasion. A 200 dexterity BM will have 4000 accuracy with 2 rings on. Titles will add a little to both sides so let's ignore that.

Right now standing my sin friend who rebirthed at 103 had around 610 dexterity and has only 2 pieces of his r9rr, which means that first rebirth he could have achieved over 730 dex easily. With me facing him in my 150dex build, 3200 accuracy with titles and accuracy rings, I missed him about 2/5 hits, which when facing a sin, is a big deal. That's all the time they need to stun, silence, sleep, or even kill you if they find the opening. With tidal protection already evading stun after stun, we really need to come up with a way to counter their crazy evasion

Personally, I'm working on my r9 weapon finally (still using t3) but to compensate for this lack of hits, I'm going to stat a little more dex (maybe 180) and shard with Amber gems. 2 amber gems adding 250 accuracy makes 500, stack with 100% from Sky Cover and r9 ring and that adds 1000 accuracy. This will give me 1800 + 100 from titles + 500 from shards equaling 2400, doubled by rings for 4800 accuracy.

Do you guys think this will be enough to compensate for the insane evasion rates these archers and sins will be getting? This is of course not including archers evasion buff, windshield, or Maze Steps...

Let me know what you think.

EDIT: Also, if you want you can inquire in my thread about getting some kind of active accuracy buff here: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=21120311#post21120311

illuzionnn · January 2014

For compare that with sin / archer, they have approximatly 900+ Deterity with buff so ore thant 7-8k evasion, so for me, THE possibility for kill a sin or archer is the OS, and with sin buff, Double OS ^^ That will be hard but bm with fist / dexterity build loose to much Attack / defence for me, and i will have 3500+ accuracy with 2* G12 amber on weapon, so loose 1k accuracy for 100 strenght, i think that can be good ^^.

Other point of view, now with : Spirit and passive skill, 100 dext bm => between 40-45% crit end gear.
More Strenght : More physical attack/defense *% of passive skill from new world, after that's a beggining but if realy we miss too much Dexterity, we can play with Engrave ring / neckless for that i think, maybe for robe too, and with double reborn, we will have again 40-50 points more so ^^ Let's see, idk cause atm, i think we will see what that done in few month but I think i will realy go in full strenght

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide · January 2014

for me what i noticed after all these new updates ... even tho going to 220 dex (gear on )and having 5,2k accuracy i started missing even on casters .. archers with eva buff i miss like 7/10 so yeah things went a really lot harder .. my new goal is to go 300 dex 700 str im assuming that wud make up for most of it but just need alot of more lvling for the additional points.. ofc im using garnets in wep so im missing on that but atm im happy with the garnets.. ambers u loose too much wep dmg multiplier imho.. dont get me wrong full str is still fun imho but atm with all the eva it did get a major nerf so ud have to keep at least 160 dex (gear on) in stead of the 80 dex ( gear on pure) so with all that benchmark for me allways was 700+str with cards nuemas and junk a 700 str bm will still hit big numbers.. i mean cards alone put like 4k base dmg + nuemas +titles +stuff .. im fairly certain a 700str bm can hit somthing in lines of 50k peak patt unbuffed b:cute

Zarkin_Baxil - Raging Tide · February 2014

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide wrote: »

for me what i noticed after all these new updates ... even tho going to 220 dex (gear on )and having 5,2k accuracy i started missing even on casters .. archers with eva buff i miss like 7/10 so yeah things went a really lot harder .. my new goal is to go 300 dex 700 str im assuming that wud make up for most of it but just need alot of more lvling for the additional points.. ofc im using garnets in wep so im missing on that but atm im happy with the garnets.. ambers u loose too much wep dmg multiplier imho.. dont get me wrong full str is still fun imho but atm with all the eva it did get a major nerf so ud have to keep at least 160 dex (gear on) in stead of the 80 dex ( gear on pure) so with all that benchmark for me allways was 700+str with cards nuemas and junk a 700 str bm will still hit big numbers.. i mean cards alone put like 4k base dmg + nuemas +titles +stuff .. im fairly certain a 700str bm can hit somthing in lines of 50k peak patt unbuffed b:cute

I would just make a small change to your goal and make it 750 str just to get the next multiplier (we get it every 150 str right?) and keep the 300 dex. I still think missing will be a problem with 800+ dex archers and sins but 750 str should be more than enough to kill them when/if we hit.

Abit more accuracy and crit vs loss in pattack

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