Orb sale and the consequences of this action.
wiktor99rr
Posts: 0 Arc User
Last Update ( 01:07PM 13-11-29 )
First off this is NOT a rage or flame post, this is a valid depiction of what is going on over at Morai server and a request from me to pwe to rethink their actions.
The recent orb sale has jacked up the price on gold over at Morai server all the way to 3,500,000 coins per gold in comparishment to the usual 2,200,000 each. and it's increasing as we speak. what are the consequences of this on the server you might ask?
well it's fairly simple, it's the great depression allover again, but in pwi, instead of jumping out of buildings my friends quit because they figure all their farming for so long is now worthless as their coins are starting to rapidly decrease in value.
how serious is this inflation problem on people that stored up their fortunes in coins?
well i'll use myself as an example i currently own 847 million coins, that would before today get me around 385 gold. todays sale has instead driven down my coin value to about 242 gold.
That means that my coins are worth a stunning 143 gold less than before.
I therefor lost around 143 gold over night due to these ridiculous sales. not only did i lose all that gold but lots of my friends with the same problem are now losing their minds and jumping of the pwi building ending their career as assasins and wizards.
How can you let this happen? Inflation should be kept maintained at a relative low percentage level, the country / world / or games job is to maintain this inlation level at a low percentage to keep its recidents from losing their mind and quitting the game they're playing in, wether it be in the real world or in the perfect world.
I can not in my mind come up with any other reasoning behind this decision but for you to promote cash shopping and to net more cash on the pwi community without any regards to the players whom spent years and years farming for their gear.
You can not tell us that this sudden 37.14% inflation in coins was without intent and that it's us players that set the price on gold, But if you do so than you have absolutely zero understanding of the fragile economy that is pwi and i would suggest you get the people working for your marketing to actually play the game and get a better understanding of what changes in sales will do to a server.
The request
My suggestion for you is to actually fix this and try to maintain the market at a low inflation percentage as any country or company caring about it's individuals would do to maintain it's "subscribers" interest in the very being of said country, company or game.
I have already seen too many people quit, i don't want to see more.
thank you.
Lastly i want to add that i do know that prices will fall back as soon as sale is over but i'm afraid the new price will still be much higher than before, just look at how fast it went from being 1.3mil each to 2.2 as a standard
Edit
please refrain from adressing the the person in charge of sales as GM since this apparently brings confusion to the forums
First off this is NOT a rage or flame post, this is a valid depiction of what is going on over at Morai server and a request from me to pwe to rethink their actions.
The recent orb sale has jacked up the price on gold over at Morai server all the way to 3,500,000 coins per gold in comparishment to the usual 2,200,000 each. and it's increasing as we speak. what are the consequences of this on the server you might ask?
well it's fairly simple, it's the great depression allover again, but in pwi, instead of jumping out of buildings my friends quit because they figure all their farming for so long is now worthless as their coins are starting to rapidly decrease in value.
how serious is this inflation problem on people that stored up their fortunes in coins?
well i'll use myself as an example i currently own 847 million coins, that would before today get me around 385 gold. todays sale has instead driven down my coin value to about 242 gold.
That means that my coins are worth a stunning 143 gold less than before.
I therefor lost around 143 gold over night due to these ridiculous sales. not only did i lose all that gold but lots of my friends with the same problem are now losing their minds and jumping of the pwi building ending their career as assasins and wizards.
How can you let this happen? Inflation should be kept maintained at a relative low percentage level, the country / world / or games job is to maintain this inlation level at a low percentage to keep its recidents from losing their mind and quitting the game they're playing in, wether it be in the real world or in the perfect world.
I can not in my mind come up with any other reasoning behind this decision but for you to promote cash shopping and to net more cash on the pwi community without any regards to the players whom spent years and years farming for their gear.
You can not tell us that this sudden 37.14% inflation in coins was without intent and that it's us players that set the price on gold, But if you do so than you have absolutely zero understanding of the fragile economy that is pwi and i would suggest you get the people working for your marketing to actually play the game and get a better understanding of what changes in sales will do to a server.
The request
My suggestion for you is to actually fix this and try to maintain the market at a low inflation percentage as any country or company caring about it's individuals would do to maintain it's "subscribers" interest in the very being of said country, company or game.
I have already seen too many people quit, i don't want to see more.
thank you.
Lastly i want to add that i do know that prices will fall back as soon as sale is over but i'm afraid the new price will still be much higher than before, just look at how fast it went from being 1.3mil each to 2.2 as a standard
Edit
please refrain from adressing the the person in charge of sales as GM since this apparently brings confusion to the forums
Post edited by wiktor99rr on
0
Comments
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The in game economy is driven by players such as yourself. The GMs have no influence on the price of items or gold in game.
The only influence you might say GMs have on prices is sales. But then again... It's how much a player values gold during that sale that determines the price of gold.0 -
Kijinka - Dreamweaver wrote: »The in game economy is driven by players such as yourself. The GMs have no influence on the price of items or gold in game.
The only influence you might say GMs have on prices is sales. But then again... It's how much a player values gold during that sale that determines the price of gold.
This.
Gold prices on Archosaur have hardly gone up at all. The sale prices on these orbs are slightly over market value at 2m per gold, so it really isn't as scandalous as everyone likes to claim it is.
Besides, the sale ends tomorrow. Just wait it out if it worries you that muchb:embarrassCurrent: http://mypers.pw/1.8/#133167
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For the prices of a few pixels of orbs to be a more pro button masher, I think I prefer a more tangible investment of my real money.
Now as for the OP, as stated gold prices are created by the playerbase. Don't complain to PWE that you just lost such a significant amount of virtual gold. Blame your fellow players. If that 800+ million wasn't made with purchases of Zen and selling the gold for coin, through the AH, PWE doesn't care if your coin is worthless or not. Holding onto your coin that long is like playing the stock market, and you made bad investments lol.WeBeKinky Leader - lvl 10x psychic
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It's strange what desire will make foolish people do.0 -
As Jarkhen stated, but with the little difference of that the kids inside the game that don't know the value of a dollar will continue to jack prices up, because they don't know any better and simply don't care how they make others feel with the prices they charge for their items. Also with the kids are the fools that will buy items at the overpriced sales prices, keeping the prices jacked up. Makes me glad I won't give the greedyass token sellers any of my coin, and hopefully others won't either causing the little morons to lower their prices.
Yeah, I'm passed the point of giving a damn if I hurt someone's feelings.0 -
The tard is strong in this one.Kijinka - Dreamweaver wrote: »The in game economy is driven by players such as yourself. The GMs have no influence on the price of items or gold in game.
The only influence you might say GMs have on prices is sales. But then again... It's how much a player values gold during that sale that determines the price of gold.0 -
@OP You still have your coins right?
You haven't "lost" anything.
Also, the gold market will only stay that high if people actually purchase gold from the sellers at that price. Wait a bit and it will come back down.
Invest in something that doesn't fluctuate as much from sales, ect. if you're going to play the market.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »@OP You still have your coins right?
You haven't "lost" anything.
Also, the gold market will only stay that high if people actually purchase gold from the sellers at that price. Wait a bit and it will come back down.
Invest in something that doesn't fluctuate as much from sales, ect. if you're going to play the market.
the number of coins mean nothing, what is actually meaningfull is the value of a coin. and jacking up the price on gold effects almost every priced item.Jarkhen - Archosaur wrote: »This.
Gold prices on Archosaur have hardly gone up at all. The sale prices on these orbs are slightly over market value at 2m per gold, so it really isn't as scandalous as everyone likes to claim it is.
Besides, the sale ends tomorrow. Just wait it out if it worries you that muchb:embarrass
Archosaur is a different server with a different economy than moraiKijinka - Dreamweaver wrote: »The in game economy is driven by players such as yourself. The GMs have no influence on the price of items or gold in game.
The only influence you might say GMs have on prices is sales. But then again... It's how much a player values gold during that sale that determines the price of gold.
ah but you see it's the gm's responsibility to keep track and know in a frame about how much players value gold to be able to actually maintain a world wide stabalized economy by not giving out sales that will ruck the economy as much as almost 40% inflation0 -
XXOGCaliXx - Heavens Tear wrote: »The tard is strong in this one.
Cant tell if trolling or stupid.
@ OP
Anyway gold prices on LC actually DECREASED during this sale, dropped about 100k to 2.1mil ea. At 3.3mil per gold it doesn't even seem worth it to buy these 12* orbs, people on your server must be crazy.
I actaully LIKE these prices because orbs are at about market price prior to this sale, which is probably why gold on my server didn't go up, good job gms...for once...full 3r9 +11/12 (still using immac shards though) w/o CSing, leveled to 105 spaming pv, yes i have no life =D0 -
I've sorry your server is filled with so many **** people that they would buy 12 stars for ~500m0
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Kijinka - Dreamweaver wrote: »The in game economy is driven by players such as yourself. The GMs have no influence on the price of items or gold in game.
The only influence you might say GMs have on prices is sales. But then again... It's how much a player values gold during that sale that determines the price of gold.
We as players pretty much decide the ratio of dollar value per hour farming. Although PWI of course has its influence as they try to make spending dollars as attractive as possible. (increasing the dollar per hour farming ratio)
PWI sets the gold/dollar conversion rate and the coin inflation rate (trough more or less coin sinks and more or less coin generating rewards)
This means they have pretty much full controll over the economy.
And indeed i agree with OP that it is important that PWI keeps inflation at bay. This is important for the causal FTP player who gets his set amount of coins from drops and BH rewards but has his purchasing power decline and it is important for the merchant who has a billion coins waiting for future R9 sales.
Obviously, both groups are not the ones who make PWI rich. Inflation on the other hand benefits future CSers. So Inflation is seems good for PWI, they just need to balance it and prevent hurting the casual players so much that they will leave.
Of course it may not be "GMs" that have this control, but PWI does for sure.
It amazes me to see how many players are blaming things on greed and stuff like that while ignoring market mechanics. There is no greed in the price of gold or tokens. Its pure market mechanics. And PWI has control of the variables in this market.Everything i write is from PvE perspective unless mentioned otherwise.0 -
wiktor99rr wrote: »ah but you see it's the gm's responsibility to keep track and know in a frame about how much players value gold to be able to actually maintain a world wide stabalized economy by not giving out sales that will ruck the economy as much as almost 40% inflation
Being a GM for a few other titles, I can definitively state that the above statement is a load of ****.
Especially from the standpoint of the company. Coin sinks are common, and de-stabilizing the economy to push more people to purchase the gold with real money instead of pixels is a regular practice. GM's have nothing to do with creating the sinks, de-stabilizing the economy, and most definitely aren't tasked with micro-managing the games economy.
On top of that, you're QQ-ing about a small increase. You'd be better off QQ-ing that gold isn't the 100k that it was when this game started, or the 400k standard that was set with the release of packs. Hell, when RT was released, the coin price of gold on Sanctuary literally doubled. Guess what, it's still there.
And seriously, it's been said already in this thread, and you seem too think to understand...
The price of gold is set and controlled by the players on your server. If your server has greedy ****s, move or quit playing. Adapt and move on, or get outta the game.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
wiktor99rr wrote: »well i'll use myself as an example i currently own 847 million coins, that would before today get me around 385 gold. todays sale has instead driven down my coin value to about 242 gold.
That means that my coins are worth a stunning 143 gold less than before.
I therefor lost around 143 gold over night due to these ridiculous sales. not only did i lose all that gold but lots of my friends with the same problem are now losing their minds and jumping of the pwi building ending their career as assasins and wizards.
You lost NOTHING. You still have all your coins. It's not because something raise in price that you loose something.
It's like saying that you have $20 and that you lost money because tomatoes are selling for 50 cents each this week while they were selling for 40 cents the previous week.Frankieraye said : "we can promise that we will work to improve all facets of community, engineering, and customer service to ensure that something like this doesn't happen again."
(We are still waiting to see any improvements or changes beign implemented. More empty promises from PWI?)0 -
You lost NOTHING. You still have all your coins. It's not because something raise in price that you loose something.
It's like saying that you have $20 and that you lost money because tomatoes are selling for 50 cents each this week while they were selling for 40 cents the previous week.
WTF ?
how can you be so blind ?
This is exactly what is happening in real life as well. Inflation right now is higher than the interest the bank pays you. This is called negative real rate. And it makes everyone poor. Do you understand that if your grandfather in 1930AD had 500$ he was a rich man ?, this money was enough to buy him almost a house. Do you seriously think he lost nothing due to inflation because he now still has those same 500$ ? Inflation robbed him blind !
That is really the most ignorant thing i have ever seen anyone say on economics.
Fact is however that you need to look at the longer term. The short term fluctuations are very big in PWI economy (because it is a small economy that is primarily dictated by a few very important variables like the sales) It is not fair to compare your current coin value with that of last week. Next week it might be pretty much reversed again. And these fluctuations (and their predictability) are actually a huge blessing for merchants with 800m coins. I bought gold last week for 1.6m each. I sold it last night for 2.4m each.Everything i write is from PvE perspective unless mentioned otherwise.0 -
I still remember the time when gold cost ~100k each... *sigh*[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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SilverCleric - Lost City wrote: »I still remember the time when gold cost ~100k each... *sigh*
b:shedtear i feel likei shoulda invested ondots /dods when they were super cheap b:cry
and gold b:cry0 -
WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »This is exactly what is happening in real life as well. Inflation right now is higher than the interest the bank pays you. This is called negative real rate. And it makes everyone poor. Do you understand that if your grandfather in 1930AD had 500$ he was a rich man ?, this money was enough to buy him almost a house. Do you seriously think he lost nothing due to inflation because he now still has those same 500$ ? Inflation robbed him blind !
He lost nothing. He would have lost money if he bought something at a certain price, and that the price of this item fell below the price he paid for it.Frankieraye said : "we can promise that we will work to improve all facets of community, engineering, and customer service to ensure that something like this doesn't happen again."
(We are still waiting to see any improvements or changes beign implemented. More empty promises from PWI?)0 -
He lost nothing. He would have lost money if he bought something at a certain price, and that the price of this item fell below the price he paid for it.
Seriously...
Totally clueless. Talk with an economy professor if you dont want to listen to me. I am not going to go explain more. I am already explaining too much. Knowledge is power. The more stupid the rest of the PWI comunity, they better it is for me. Keep it up. Sorry for sounding like this, but the level of ignorance is so big i cannot manage to give a polite answer.Everything i write is from PvE perspective unless mentioned otherwise.0 -
WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »Seriously...
Totally clueless. Talk with an economy professor if you dont want to listen to me.
You are the clueless one.
You are treating the gold used in the cash shop as a currency. It's not. It's an item, or a convenience, or a service, like a piece of fashion, a mount or a DQ item. Like all items, it's price vary at the whim of those who sell it and those who want to buy it.
The only game currency is the coin.
How many gold can he buy with his coins today? Less than yesterday, because the price of gold raised.
How many DQ1 items can he buy with his coin today? Probably as many as yesterday, because the price of DQ1 items probably did not changed.
See? He lost nothing.
Coin is the currency, cash shop Gold is not.Frankieraye said : "we can promise that we will work to improve all facets of community, engineering, and customer service to ensure that something like this doesn't happen again."
(We are still waiting to see any improvements or changes beign implemented. More empty promises from PWI?)0 -
so if I buy 100 shares of blockbuster video at 35 dollars a share, then the price of the stock drops to 2 dollars a share, i have nothing to complain about because i still have 100 shares?
I cant decide which statement is more stupid:SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »@OP You still have your coins right?
You haven't "lost" anything.
Also, the gold market will only stay that high if people actually purchase gold from the sellers at that price. Wait a bit and it will come back down.Kijinka - Dreamweaver wrote: »The in game economy is driven by players such as yourself. The GMs have no influence on the price of items or gold in game.
The only influence you might say GMs have on prices is sales. But then again... It's how much a player values gold during that sale that determines the price of gold.
probably the second, since the first is at least rooted in reality.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »so if I buy 100 shares of blockbuster video at 35 dollars a share, then the price of the stock drops to 2 dollars a share, i have nothing to complain about because i still have 100 shares?
In that case yes, because you BOUGHT them.
Lets say you have 100$ in your pocket.
Lets say Blockbuster shares loose 25% in value, but you don't have any. Did you loose or gain any money?
Lets say Blockbuster shares gain 25% in value, but you don't have any. Did you gain or loose any money?
At best, you lost an opportunity to gain some money. But you still have your $100. You gained and lost nothing.Frankieraye said : "we can promise that we will work to improve all facets of community, engineering, and customer service to ensure that something like this doesn't happen again."
(We are still waiting to see any improvements or changes beign implemented. More empty promises from PWI?)0 -
SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »so if I buy 100 shares of blockbuster video at 35 dollars a share, then the price of the stock drops to 2 dollars a share, i have nothing to complain about because i still have 100 shares?
I cant decide which statement is more stupid:
probably the second, since the first is at least rooted in reality.
If you buy 100 shares of blockbuster video you're stupid, cause torrents and stuff.
Fact is, gold prices have always been somewhat of a gambling thing. I've made lots of coins by buying gold when I believed it'd go higher. I've lost tons selling believing it'd drop.
It's also like that in real life. Gold is kind of a commodity, and its price fluctuates. If you bought shares of blockbuster at $35, and they're now worth $2, you have two options: believe they won't drop any further, and will go up instead, and accordingly keep your shares, or believe they'll drop/stabilize, so you sell them and move on.
Inflation EXISTS in game, but it's not the GMs' fault, nor is gold price enough to establish that it happens due to inflation. What's the price of event items? Wings of Cloudcharger have dropped drastically in price. So have the pink wing trophy thingy. So have lunar rings. Lunar weapons came to an all-time low after rank sales. It's higher now due to G16.
Inflation exists basically because there are more ways of making coins than the coin sinks in game can take off you. A single person may get an average of 4 million coins/day just from BHs if he has enough lvl 100+ toons. Their alts can make lots of coins from Jolly Jones stuff.
Gold price goes up during sales like these because lots of cash shoppers who would otherwise be selling their gold are using them to +11/+12 their own toons, and the opportunity cost to change their minds is higher.
Inflation is NOT a raise in prices, it's a decrease in the value of money. It's a subtle but noticeable difference.
Blaming the GMs and these sales for inflation is like blaming the bad weather for inflation. Bad weather doesn't cause inflation: it can be responsible for the raise in some prices, though.
The one thing that'd relieve this feeling of GM-caused inflation would be to have the cash shop prices to vary according to the market's mood, so we'd have a kind of supply/demand operating in game. That, however, would only work with some added scarcity to said items in cash shop (so noone would be able to get, say, 3k d.orbs 10 to merch with or whatever.0 -
anyone who believes that the controller of a closed system does not have control of that system is a fool.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »anyone who believes that the controller of a closed system does not have control of that system is a fool.
GMs have absolutely no control over the supply of coins OR gold. They're not any kind of central bankers.0 -
sanctuary gold spiked a bit before this orb sale but once out, it dwindled to what it was before o.o
sucks to be on a stupid server with inflated prices.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]lagunal8.deviantart.com
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FistToDeath - Dreamweaver wrote: »GMs have absolutely no control over the supply of coins OR gold. They're not any kind of central bankers.
no control over the coin supply? really? are you sure about that? you might want to double check.
no they dont have control over how much money people give them, they only have 5 years of data to calculate trends from, what to sell, what to sell at a "discount," when to sell it, and how long to sell it for, price floors like token conversion and chests of coins, and global economic data that is unavailable to players, e.g. the total amount of coins/gold/certain items existing at any given time, and global rates of consumption and fluctuation.
but you are probably right, they dont have any control over anything.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »no control over the coin supply? really? are you sure about that? you might want to double check.
no they dont have control over how much money people give them, they only have 5 years of data to calculate trends from, what to sell, what to sell at a "discount," when to sell it, and how long to sell it for, price floors like token conversion and chests of coins, and global economic data that is unavailable to players, e.g. the total amount of coins/gold/certain items existing at any given time, and global rates of consumption and fluctuation.
but you are probably right, they dont have any control over anything.
Do you really think GMs deal with 5 years of data to decide what next sale will be?
And still, that's no CONTROL. That's INFLUENCE.0 -
Even if you think that, the GM's have absolutely nothing to do with settings sales. That's done entirely by the marketing team.FistToDeath - Dreamweaver wrote: »Do you really think GMs deal with 5 years of data to decide what next sale will be?
And still, that's no CONTROL. That's INFLUENCE.
You guys should look into what the role of a GM actually is.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
3.5m per gold... yeah that's a lot indeed. However think for a moment 1st. This sale only last one day, probably there wont be any other sale like this in at least 6 months, and a lot of ppl have +10 now. So yeah, no wonder the price of gold went up so much. Everyone wants to get those orbs while they still can. The price of gold will return to its normal price after this one-day-sale. Your friends should wait.0
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SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »Even if you think that, the GM's have absolutely nothing to do with settings sales. That's done entirely by the marketing team.
You guys should look into what the role of a GM actually is.
Oh, sure. Ofc I do believe you. I just use "GM" as a short for "PWI employee" (and I also use "Dev" as short for "Wanmei employee").
Sorry about that.
Anyway, marketing team probably should use some feedback from the GMs to know what's more in demand in the servers on average. Probably a hard task, since there are quite a few servers with different ages, so what everyone needs isn't exactly the same.0 -
You are the clueless one.
You are treating the gold used in the cash shop as a currency. It's not. It's an item, or a convenience, or a service, like a piece of fashion, a mount or a DQ item. Like all items, it's price vary at the whim of those who sell it and those who want to buy it.
The only game currency is the coin.
How many gold can he buy with his coins today? Less than yesterday, because the price of gold raised.
How many DQ1 items can he buy with his coin today? Probably as many as yesterday, because the price of DQ1 items probably did not changed.
See? He lost nothing.
Coin is the currency, cash shop Gold is not.
Gold IS currency. Think of coins and gold as the currencies of two different nations: the pve farmer nation, and the boutique nation. If something happens to increase the value/desireability of boutique items, more players will "import" items from the boutique nation, thus increasing the demand + price for their currency.
The pve farmers nation is just having problems because their government is **** and keeps printing money, placing them inside mobs, and having them shower coins when they die, as well as handing out massive amounts of free coin to landowners.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I replied to the 7th topic on the 1st page of mystic forums, and got reported for necro. Plz save mystic forums.0
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