Str Barbs

_Mg_Zr - Harshlands · November 2013

I recently restat to pure str from aps build and honestly, now i wish i never went aps in the first place. All the money i waisted on it b:cry

It was a fun build to use and done incredible damage but ever since i finished getting my set bonuses for r9rr.
I found that with pure str My single target dps is higher.
My aoe damage is higher.
My phys def is higher.

Downsides though are my crit is down and so is my accuracy.

slamstone · November 2013

it's a miracle ...so all that "aps is pro" goes down the drain now? f:laugh

<my accuraccy with sage bloodbath is 5600 (with 60 dex and amber in r9 axes) so not that low i think right?

_Mg_Zr - Harshlands · November 2013

slamstone wrote: »

it's a miracle ...so all that "aps is pro" goes down the drain now? f:laugh

<my accuraccy with sage bloodbath is 5600 (with 60 dex and amber in r9 axes) so not that low i think right?

No i would still argue that aps is a good build for barbs before they get endgame gears. But with endgame gears i just dont see the point in it.

Barson - Raging Tide · November 2013

_Mg_Zr - Harshlands wrote: »

I recently restat to pure str from aps build and honestly, now i wish i never went aps in the first place. All the money i waisted on it b:cry

It was a fun build to use and done incredible damage but ever since i finished getting my set bonuses for r9rr.
I found that with pure str My single target dps is higher.
My aoe damage is higher.
My phys def is higher.

Downsides though are my crit is down and so is my accuracy.

well cant do anything about the crit but you do have this skill call BLOODBATH you can try out b:bye

WannaBM - Archosaur · November 2013

_Mg_Zr - Harshlands wrote: »

I recently restat to pure str from aps build and honestly, now i wish i never went aps in the first place. All the money i waisted on it b:cry

It was a fun build to use and done incredible damage but ever since i finished getting my set bonuses for r9rr.
I found that with pure str My single target dps is higher.
My aoe damage is higher.
My phys def is higher.

Downsides though are my crit is down and so is my accuracy.

Looks like troll post more than really someone who tried both in a way that is fair to compare... (meaning not comparing a G15 aps build vs R9 str build, but equal equip, neither a dex&vit build vs a full str build)

-DPS, you lie. A str barb will never nearly do the DPS of an APS barb. really, not remotely close. Or do you mean with 2 venos constantly providing you sparks so that your str barb can also perma spark ? In that case it could be somewhat nearly close though i still doubt you will really out DD an APS build. This statement alone is why i call you troll.

-Pdef from 100 str is a marginal difference, not noticable really.

-AOE damage: yes going from say 600 to 700 str (100 less dex needed for not using claws) will make you do 10-15% more damage on most attacks, just like you do 10-15% more dmg on your single target attacks. Of course armagedon, our king of AOE does not care about str or dex.

_Mg_Zr - Harshlands · November 2013

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

Looks like troll post more than really someone who tried both in a way that is fair to compare... (meaning not comparing a G15 aps build vs R9 str build, but equal equip, neither a dex&vit build vs a full str build)

I compared them both with equal gears. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2V20ARlxDY if you watch that vid you will see the gear i was using with aps set up before i restat.

-DPS, you lie. A str barb will never nearly do the DPS of an APS barb. really, not remotely close. Or do you mean with 2 venos constantly providing you sparks so that your str barb can also perma spark ? In that case it could be somewhat nearly close though i still doubt you will really out DD an APS build. This statement alone is why i call you troll.

My damage per spark is higher with pure str build than aps build, maybe over the course of a long drawn out fight aps would over take, but honestly how many bosses take more than 1-2 sparks to kill. I am in the process of making a vid to showcase the damage of a pure str barb once thats up i guess you will see what im talking about.

-Pdef from 100 str is a marginal difference, not noticable really.

It is when you got +12 sins sparking on you and +12 archers pew pewing you

-AOE damage: yes going from say 600 to 700 str (100 less dex needed for not using claws) will make you do 10-15% more damage on most attacks, just like you do 10-15% more dmg on your single target attacks. Of course armagedon, our king of AOE does not care about str or dex.
I agree with this

Replies in red

DionDagger - Dreamweaver · November 2013

_Mg_Zr - Harshlands wrote: »

Replies in red

I highly doubt your aps spark is the same unless you were using a **** wep. G16 aps barbs out DD r9rr str barbs at same refiineb:chuckle. Actually, you can be 4 aps in r9rr gear and get the 100 str bonus

.

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver · November 2013

Aps - pve only
Non aps - pvp oriented (using skills ftw) but gets by in pve

Considering the 'forced pvp' (Nation Wars) alot of people have restat/gone pure etc.

When I got r9 on my archer I restat to pure dex, was an aps build with fists. For pve; between awaken/cloud eruption/oQS/white tea if I want perma spark I can be.

Walpurga - Dreamweaver · November 2013

aps does fine in pvp; it's not as if you're gonna whip out claws mid-figght, 99% of the time.

hell if you have 3 pieces r9rr and swap in an r8r -int plate you can perfectly well derp-occult-aps some nabs lol

_Mg_Zr - Harshlands · November 2013

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I highly doubt your aps spark is the same unless you were using a **** wep. G16 aps barbs out DD r9rr str barbs at same refiineb:chuckle. Actually, you can be 4 aps in r9rr gear and get the 100 str bonus .

My claws were G16 +10 same refine on my poleaxe

I had 4 aps in r9rr and had the 100str bonus and the 25 def lvl bonus actually. But the damage from that was less than at 5aps.
Tankabillity was alot better though

Thedarkrealm - Lost City · November 2013

Barbs are not DD, we were never meant to be DD so of course a STR build is better than DPS/APS because we're TANKS, we can DD but its not going to be on par with a real DD like a sin or war in the DPS, maybe single hits but they're supposed to hit faster harder that's why barbs get the skills that only attract agro and why tiger form has better Def and turtle skill.

TL:DR

Congrats on discovering what barbs builds supposed to be in the first place...

_Mg_Zr - Harshlands · November 2013

Thedarkrealm - Lost City wrote: »

Barbs are not DD, we were never meant to be DD so of course a STR build is better than DPS/APS because we're TANKS, we can DD but its not going to be on par with a real DD like a sin or war in the DPS, maybe single hits but they're supposed to hit faster harder that's why barbs get the skills that only attract agro and why tiger form has better Def and turtle skill.

TL:DR

Congrats on discovering what barbs builds supposed to be in the first place...

Barbs are classed as not being able to do good damage. That was true until r9rr (cant say for certain if it happened once r9 was released as back then i was playing my sage vit build kitty) but with r9rr any class can dd, especially barbs. I would have to say a r9rr barb is one of the best dd's ingame. Being a dd doesnt stop us from tanking, infact it helps

opkossy · November 2013

I saw the video and I'm wondering something now.

Correct me if I'm wrong but... are you comparing 5 APS in standard APS setup gear to pure str R9 third cast gear? Because that's a rather silly thing to do. Especially when you can do this when it comes to gear setup... and note I'm not even bothering to refine, engrave, or put all the bonus add-ons in that calc.

You'll undoubtedbly deal more damage per hit by converting to a pure str build on most skills... and with R9 being what it is, your crit rate will still be noticable as well as you'll have bloodbath for accuracy. However when it comes to raw DPS an APS setup in third cast is going to be greater DPS for anything without anti-APS buffs due to permaspark.

Now in a squad, that won't matter as much because you'll likely have a sin or two as well as BM and enough heavy DD for it to mean pretty much any boss dies within a spark or two so being able to permaspark won't mean that much. When solo, however, you'd notice the difference.

Maxxxson - Dreamweaver · November 2013

OPKossy wrote: »

I saw the video and I'm wondering something now.

Correct me if I'm wrong but... are you comparing 5 APS in standard APS setup gear to pure str R9 third cast gear? Because that's a rather silly thing to do.

You are correct on this one, in his video he is using 2 Rank9rr armors only and has a measly 370 str, instead of the supposed 540 normal strength for a r9rr APS build
(600+ if that OP tome is available)
It definetely was a bad video to showcase actual DMG/DPS differences.
Oddly enough he later showed 4 aps with 4 rank9 armors which makes no sense as 4 doesnt add any dmg, instead shoulda used 3 armors and 5 aps, instead of 4 and 4 aps.

Buffed a r9rr aps barb with 3 or more r9 pieces has actually equal dps than a g16 sin while also having the exact same Accuracy
(sitting at 8.1k accuracy myself with only one 50% acc ring)

But yeah theres not much to discuss really, if you like pvp a lot and have r9rr already dont do the APS build, if you enjoy PVE and a little PvP - APS is definetely a good choice, as it nets you more constant income to upgrade your gears towards +11 or +12.

Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear · November 2013

The only reason for a barb to go str build is for pvp purposes. It provides the ability to deal consistent medium-high damage without having to rely on gambling-arma-combos for kills or damage threat. PVE-wise, the damage from a str-axe barb will never be on a fair match with the damage output from aps or other DD classes.

Walpurga - Dreamweaver · November 2013

Maxxxson - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You are correct on this one, in his video he is using 2 Rank9rr armors only and has a measly 370 str, instead of the supposed 540 normal strength for a r9rr APS build
(600+ if that OP tome is available)
It definetely was a bad video to showcase actual DMG/DPS differences.
Oddly enough he later showed 4 aps with 4 rank9 armors which makes no sense as 4 doesnt add any dmg, instead shoulda used 3 armors and 5 aps, instead of 4 and 4 aps.

Buffed a r9rr aps barb with 3 or more r9 pieces has actually equal dps than a g16 sin while also having the exact same Accuracy
(sitting at 8.1k accuracy myself with only one 50% acc ring)

But yeah theres not much to discuss really, if you like pvp a lot and have r9rr already dont do the APS build, if you enjoy PVE and a little PvP - APS is definetely a good choice, as it nets you more constant income to upgrade your gears towards +11 or +12.

http://pwcalc.com/fa5d26332b9b2c98 398 str

looks like there's gotta be something wrong with the aps setup then lol; pwcalc of your old aps set?

Maxxxson - Dreamweaver · November 2013

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

http://pwcalc.com/fa5d26332b9b2c98 398 str

looks like there's gotta be something wrong with the aps setup then lol; pwcalc of your old aps set?

I went by the stats shown in the APS Demonstration/Comparison video from _Mg_Zr in his first fight where he uses regular 5 aps gear.

The 500+ is for Barbs with 3 rank9rr armors, I myself sit at currently 521 str.
I can still reset 44 stats from vit to str, get better engravings and use/get the Emperor tome instead of Pangu plus more restating, that would easily put me at atleast 637 str.

Or what were you mentioning ?

Walpurga - Dreamweaver · November 2013

was talking to OP

cuz r9rr aps barb should definitely have 500+ str with claws on

opkossy · November 2013

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

was talking to OP

cuz r9rr aps barb should definitely have 500+ str with claws on

Yeah... if he was actually in that gear while APSing.

But he wasn't, so... kinda makes comparing it the way he's doing pretty silly since... ya know... of course not having full R9 on is gonna make your damage lower than when you have the full set on before we even consider the str removed to restat pure str.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · November 2013

As I stated the first time you linked this video in comparison, this isn't a fair comparison.

First, r9t3 axes shouldn't really be compared to G16 claws. At +10 they have something like 150% the base attack, GoF, and better adds. However, it's almost a fair comparison since they are both the "endgame" of their weapon class even though it's not a linear comparison. Second, you shouldn't compare a 380ish strength build to a 600 strength build and call it fair. My BM is 580 str aps and 589 str full r9 and soon my Barb will be headed that way. There is no reason your aps barb had to have below 500 strength. Next, 4.0 aps barb also isn't a fair comparison because you are robbing your barb of 25% damage not being 5.0.

Lastly, for one spark full strength r9t3 barbs keep up really well for 1 spark at 1.11 aps. With their aggro skills they can even hold onto aggro for a little bit. Then the spark dies... An r9t3 +10 has around 130k dps, not bad. A 5 aps claw is around 230k dps. The difference is after 15 seconds r9t3 axes drop to around 40k dps while claws stay at 230k. This isn't really exhibited on a level 70 boss that dies quickly.

Considering barbs have the best 5 aps tankability in the game with 4 piece r9t3 and some of the best claw damage (rivalling G16 sins) I still see no reason to go full str over aps. You'll be comparing a 550 str and a 700 str build (prolly even closer than that), so less than 1 damage multiplier difference when you have 5-6 multipliers. roughly 18% dph loss for better chi gain, vastly better dps after 1 spark, and increased speed and soloability.

RoidAbuse - Sanctuary · December 2013

I'm a full str barb with +12 axe and 750+ str.
Its DD is crazy.
Trust me.

_Mg_Zr - Harshlands · December 2013

I can see the points all of you are making. I guess i can keep re rolling my claws until i get enough int on them to be 5 aps with the 100 str bonus from r9rr.

Str Barbs

Comments

Categories