Abit more accuracy and crit vs loss in pattack

Slewdem - Dreamweaver · November 2013

Can't remember if i ask about this before but b:surrender..

in full 3rd cast am sitting on 547 str an 200 dex.. thinking about moving to 300 dex.. do you think the sacrifice is really bad.. cause the way i see it as a BM we still have to share our points and still loose something some where down the line while other classes can go maxed..the lost of attack power vs the gain of crit an more accuracy.. 100 more dex would jump my crit to 44%.. share ya thoughts

WannaBM - Archosaur · November 2013

100 dex would increase your critt by 5%. You are talking about 44% (thats a lot O.o) 139-144 is about a 3,6% increase.

taking away 100 str from 547is going to reduce your attack multplier from (including masteries) somewhere around 7 to 6. This would be a 15% or so reduction.

Your chance to hit PvE will go from very rarly missing to extremely rarely missing. Absolutely not nearly going to make up for your 11% loss of damage. PvE its really a bad idea.

PvP your chance to hit becomes a bit more significant. The exact amount of course depends on your opponent, but i doubt it will ever cover the 11% loss even in the most favorable cases. There is however the thing that in PvP you want spike damage, so there can be something to say for sacrificing average damage output in favor of a bigger crit chance and thus a bigger zerk-crit chance. I dont think it would be my choise though espescially because your crit chance is already so high and the reduced average damage also means that your crits actually do less damage. So if you have a low crit chance, you can make your damage output more spiky / less consistent by increasing your crit chance. If you have a high crit chance already, increasing it even more at the cost of the damage done each attack is actually going to make your damage output more consistent instead of spikey

Slewdem - Dreamweaver · November 2013

Thanks for your input.. Maths was always my weak subject so i don't really understand the maths art of the game.. So when you don't know something is better to ask.b:pleased

rose1111111 · November 2013

u wont feel the difference if u full r999, but it will b painfully obvious when u aps

cavenaghi19 · November 2013

And what you guys think abouth 700 str and 55 dex... Will bm going to miss to much ?

Zarkin_Baxil - Raging Tide · November 2013

There is a chart that was posted that showed what you want to know. At 200 dex it's pretty much the best set up for a bm. Anything beyond that it doesn't help your damage as much. I have 605 str and 185 dex at the moment. I have not restated to 200 dex because I'm close to NW tome and don't want to spend on a reset note. I have base crit of 30%. When my sage highland cleave procs (BURN THE SAGE HERETIC! b:chuckle) it jumps to 50% for 10 sec. I find that most of the time that's enough to crit down most AA and LA.

cavenaghi19 wrote: »

And what you guys think abouth 700 str and 55 dex... Will bm going to miss to much ?

You won't hit enough to be effective, that's the long and short of it.

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide · November 2013

Sittin at roughly 750 str wit base dex lower than 50 ... i have no issues hitting. Ofc u miss some but imo not too much.

Itamio - Lost City · November 2013

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide wrote: »

Sittin at roughly 750 str wit base dex lower than 50 ... i have no issues hitting. Ofc u miss some but imo not too much.

PvE you can just bug stuff with the PDef debuff. Any source of it, I.E. Glacial Spike, Devour, Dimensional Seal etc. causes every subsequent hit to a mob to land.

It's quite easy to test as well, use the debuff on a mob and have a magic class (very likely extremely low accuracy) attack the mob with regular attacks.

NigeIus - Dreamweaver · November 2013

lol slew always asking the same, already answered u this over 9k!!!!!!!!! LOL

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide · November 2013

Itamio - Lost City wrote: »

PvE you can just bug stuff with the PDef debuff. Any source of it, I.E. Glacial Spike, Devour, Dimensional Seal etc. causes every subsequent hit to a mob to land.

It's quite easy to test as well, use the debuff on a mob and have a magic class (very likely extremely low accuracy) attack the mob with regular attacks.

i dont do pve was referring to pvp b:chuckle

Aeliah - Dreamweaver · November 2013

50 dext? Against archers and assassin I predict you would miss over half of all attacks. You won't do enough spike damage to easily charm bypass anyways without debuffs, and guess what... half the times your stuns and hfs will MISS. Yikes. Even barbs would have more accuracy than you due to their blood bath... and we all know the legendary suckiness of barbarians accuracy. Why would you subject yourself to that? Also you eliminate the ability to use claws, which have some useful skills, like an aoe immobilize/slow attack rate/slow channeling rate, and cyclone heel (increase attack speed, useful when you are trying to purge somebody with pole). In fact, you may eliminate yourself from using any poles or swords either, so no purging. Sounds like a really smart idea to me, lets hear it up for pure-str bms /sarcasm.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · November 2013

For PvE you can glitch the accuracy using a pdef debuff. Since most of us rarely use Glacial Spike our pdef debuff usually comes from our genie, Tangling Mire. Endgame poles actually require 100+ dex to even use Glacial Spike unless you're using a low level pole for that too.

With titles giving + accuracy you really shouldn't miss much in pve even without glitching. The main argument is with fists/claws I'm around 220k dps, perma sparked, and have plenty of chi to support my squad with skills like HF and GS. With axes you can be around 100k dps for one spark, then you drop down to 40k dps and have trouble supporting your squad and timing your HF appropriately because of poor chi gain.

There are arguments to go max dex for pve. WannaBM compared them very nicely and showed strength is still better for dps than crit. The idea is if you have 600 strength (4 multipliers), your mastery (.75 multiplier), and triple spark (5 multipliers) for a total of 9.75 multipliers. Then pulling out 140 strength to put into dex you'll gain 7% crit, accuracy, and at the cost of 1 multiplier so about 10% damage. When I did these calcs years ago it tipped in favor around dex around 800 strength (can't remember exactly) but that's only while triple sparked. If you're not triple sparking strength will probably always be the way to go.

One thing I just wanted to point out. I use my genie for trip spark->cloud erupt->HF when in a squad then the next spark I use tangling mire. Last night I ran a lunar with a cleric, 2 sins, a seeker, and an archer? There were no pdef debuffs and no mire until about 20 seconds after the boss was started. Increased dex probably would have given me about 5% more dps in non-misses.

For PvP
With titles out alot of people have gotten +accuracy and +evasion. This helps the people who are short on these more than it helps others, obviously. The bm with 4500 accuracy doesn't gain as much from an accuracy title as the 1200 accuracy BMs with only 60 dex. On the other hand, even casters now have a fair amount of evasion. Many casters have +45 dex dominance tomes, +6-12 helms, etc... and can have dex 60-80. Kind of weird to think you could be pking a caster with higher dex than your BM >.<

With a latent crit rate of around 33% (1/3) I think it's much more important to get dph. Just about every class we fight nowadays will need chained crit's zerks. Barbs and seekers have monster defenses and hp pools. Every caster can get 20k+pdef and with purify proc can kite away from any combos you try to setup. Archers have leaps, stealth, and can chain like 45 seconds of anti stun combined with their insane evasion rates. Sins have tidal/focused and their evasion rates. Pretty much no class we fight but other BMs we can use a string of attacks to kill anymore. It's become much more about dph and looking for crit chains and zerks to charm jump in 2-4 moves.

So with a 33% crit rate you can expect crit chains (2 or more) every 9 hits. Use of Diamond Sutra will bump that. Debuffs and zerks also become more important with the higher base strength then they do with the higher crit rate.

What I'm going to do when I get my Dominance is stat 220 dex for my r9t3. This is because it has more +dex stats then my aps set and when I swap my aps set falls below the 200 dex mark and I don't get the extra crit. 220 dex seems like slightly better accuracy against archers/sins without hurting my dph against everything else.

Jaabg - Sanctuary · November 2013

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

What I'm going to do when I get my Dominance is stat 220 dex for my r9t3. This is because it has more +dex stats then my aps set and when I swap my aps set falls below the 200 dex mark and I don't get the extra crit. 220 dex seems like slightly better accuracy against archers/sins without hurting my dph against everything else.

I think you can add about 75+ dex can be added through engravings easily without hurting your str requirements (assuming emperor tome). A 220 base dex (without tome) can reach to 295~300 dex from engravings. That is more useful for my build, more costly, but helps out in the long run.

Get 19x2 dex on your claws b:dirty.

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide · November 2013

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

50 dext? Against archers and assassin I predict you would miss over half of all attacks. You won't do enough spike damage to easily charm bypass anyways without debuffs, and guess what... half the times your stuns and hfs will MISS. Yikes. Even barbs would have more accuracy than you due to their blood bath... and we all know the legendary suckiness of barbarians accuracy. Why would you subject yourself to that? Also you eliminate the ability to use claws, which have some useful skills, like an aoe immobilize/slow attack rate/slow channeling rate, and cyclone heel (increase attack speed, useful when you are trying to purge somebody with pole). In fact, you may eliminate yourself from using any poles or swords either, so no purging. Sounds like a really smart idea to me, lets hear it up for pure-str bms /sarcasm.

that is the choices u make .. my playing style as a sage full str axe suits much btr... and with the titles engravings ... and all that jazz.. i sitll hit often enugh for my style to 750 dex classes... this is one of those things that u need to try to know.. But then again what would a cleric know b:chuckle and the key point is pike damage.. some say a bm aint a d class well i got buffed apout 34k patt on the higher end and 24k on the lower end .. Try tanking that all u want b:laugh

ps. see how many times i miss vs archer or sin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e18sM7UoEyM ur 50% is so far off its ridiculous

Desdi - Sanctuary · November 2013

You can't really judge people by the avatar though..most people have alts nowadays and played most, if not all, classes. Of course I don't know if Aeliah himself has a BM but just sayin' o.o

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide · November 2013

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

You can't really judge people by the avatar though..most people have alts nowadays and played most, if not all, classes. Of course I don't know if Aeliah himself has a BM but just sayin' o.o

true but even if u have an alt u wud know absolutely nothing about that class's endgame playing unless u endgame it and to my knowledge not many do an end game bm as an alt b:laugh

Aeliah - Dreamweaver · November 2013

Which is why I used the word 'predict' when I said 50%. Or do I need to question your reading comprehension as well?

You conveniently ignored my comment about being able to switch weapons. Can you use pole? Claws?

*crickets*

Hit as hard as you want, lets see what you can do to my plume shell. Can you purge it?

*crickets*

Do archers and assassins have evasion multiple times higher than your accuracy? Do you miss much more frequently than a bm with slightly higher dext would against these light armor classes?

*crickets*

Convenient how most of your 1vs1s are against people unbuffed... but I'll let that point slide for the moment. Lets discuss misses.

I watched several minutes into the video. First of all, Bhavvy didn't rebuff his evasion buff after he used his 79 evasion skill. Seems a bit of a fail when fighting a bm with such low accuracy. Before that I'd say you missed roughly 30-40% of attacks, and this is biased, because some of your attacks cannot miss. Secondly, I couldn't help but notice... shortly after you were purged, you did an hf+extreme poison on him... sure to make him go splat and!... miss. Again without the massive evasion buff that he shoulda rebuffed at some point in fight.

I watched the assassin fight too. I saw plenty of misses several minutes in, and regrettably, he wasn't even making use of the assassin's 18 second, 50% evasion boost from bloodpaint. While I don't have a sage bm (demon 101 bm I have), I certainly have a demon assassin, and I can definitely say that, even against ordinary claw/axe build bms, the evasion boosts helps a ton. With my base evasion being significantly higher than your base accuracy, a 50% boost to my evasion will have you missing multiple times in a row, again and again.

Second sin fight... starting to feel like your miss rate against non evasion-buffed dext people (have no way of knowing whether he has emperor tome or complete r9rr build, but I'll assume at least r9rr build), is around 20-25%. These numbers are bit skewed still by the frequency with which you use 'cannot miss' skills like your 79 seal. Your super long fight against this sin also helped illustrate my point about the importance of accuracy, even though, again, he wasn't using demon bloodpaint. I saw drake's bashes miss, and I saw your attack right after hf miss, and again (in general) around 20-25% of all attacks missing.

I think if more dext-build people realized how low your accuracy is, they'd be much more diligent about using evasion-increasing buffs. Furthermore, when your opponents have buffs in, clearly you aren't getting easy charm-bypasses anymore, so you need to combo skills together. Doing so when up to a quarter of them miss by default is definitely going to make your life more difficult. Stun locks that fall apart, or a miss that would have otherwise been a kill. At the end of the fight you finally comboed enough skills together without misses to finish him off... but considering the gear gap, it shouldn't have taken anywhere close to that long.

I still think giving up *just a bit* of dmg to gain *a lot* of accuracy just makes sense. Its not like you have to pick between high dmg and high accuracy. You just have to put 'some' into dext, not 'a ton'. You basically just need a decent amount of base for your two 50% accuracy rings to work off of, and I'll bet you could drop your miss rate significantly, while also boosting your own evasion and crit. I think I saw the assassin miss... like twice. If we consider that the assassin essentially lands 99% of all attacks against you, and you land only 75%, we are looking at a dmg disparity of nearly 25%. You could eliminate much of that against light armor opponents. You appear to be pretty wealthy. Have you even considered just doing a stat reset to see how much accuracy you gain by putting maybe 100 points into dext?

Pure str build is probably ok against some near-endgame arcanes, where your zerk crits may start doing over half their hp even when buffed, and where you don't have to be very worried about missing. The question is, then, can you still zerk-crit past these buffed arcanes even if you give up a bit of str? That I don't know, but I suspect you still could.

Certainly your build is a tradeoff. You do get more physical attack and physical defense, and this probably helps you kill arcanes a bit better (which is certainly important in its own right). In cases where you get lucky and avoid misses, it might end fights against light and heavy armors faster too.

However, you shouldn't deny that your build has some significant downsides. With lower dext, you lose evasion, accuracy, and some crit. For people that you can't kill without zerk-crits, getting the zerk crits will be more difficult, and for people that have high evasion, comboing several attacks together without a miss interrupting your sequence will be more difficult.

And finally, just as important, you can't use any weapon besides axes. This means you lose access to a wide range of self buffs and debuffs from the other weapon paths, and it also means that you cannot purge. In endgame gear fully buffed, there should be plenty of people that, for all practical purposes, you cannot kill. Sure, you can hf on these people... but if they are even halfway clever, they'll realize that hf is your ONLY way of killing them, and therefore, they can simply block the hf without needing to worry about anything else you may throw their way. As a cleric, I can easily see myself just reserving belief for when you hf, and then tanking everything else you try with vanguard spirit. Good luck trying to zerk crit past 24k hp and 23k physical defense. Good luck comboing 6-7 hits against a class that can heal!

Are you going to claim 'I can purge if I really want to?' No I doubt you'd claim that (its true though) because I saw no evidence of a purge genie in any of your video clips. In theory, its the same as me trying to purge, and it has the saw drawbacks. 10% chance every 80 genie energy is rather costly, and even with a high magic genie, it will take 4 minutes on average to get a single purge off. This is easily countered with spirit of defense apoth. In particular, in your case you can't even use the 4s, 30% magic defense debuff that goes with the purge attempt, so if it fails it truly is a waste of your genie.

Just sayiiiiin...

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide · November 2013

1st of all ur whole point of not bring able to swap weps is totally redundant.. since if i want to gs or use any of the skills in other paths.. (which are useless unless in mass pvp) i can use npc bought weps and use those... so theres that theory... then tha purge really??? U think u cant get a r8r with spirit blackhole ? LOL .... and regarding plume shells thats 1-3 hits in and youre outa mana. Sins archers what not with evasion buffs... not a prob.. can still win 1v1 selfbuffed easy... in mass pvp whyd i chase any of those classes i have far more usefull things to do in those scenarios. And as to your have u tried? Heck iwas demon iwas all wep i was sage iwas dex built hybrid vit str name it done it... but all the other options are flat out weak... and yeah i use my 100% acc skills .. why not few of em in row seals the deal in most fights anyway... + that vid was done before i even engraved rings for more accu and i got a ton more to get from titles too ... and as far as missing a key hit after hf or loosing a stun cycle? No biggie its not like a bm cant tank any 1v1 for like forever if they want to sure mite lock btr and hit more often with dex.. but ill just rather wait till 2 ctits in row and be done... crit rate with dex? Rlly i still have 33% crit rate wwith str pure and theres skills like d bane and sage higland for that 60+ crit rate.. all in all u just stated a wall of nonsense.. ur a good cleric keep to it .. leave bm bisniss for bm"s

Ps id love to show u how ideal with a cleric of your skill cause if i want to i can tank an endgame cleric for ever and just frain ur chi and watch u fall after that.

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver · November 2013

Forum PvP (coz they didnt implement server vs server yet)

Requirements:
YouTube channel (MMO equivalent of a CV)
-several PvP vids with a favourable k/d ratio
-friends leaving comments on how cool you are is a plus
-several TW vids showing how YOU alone are winner
-try to omit TWs where you lost btw

High Post count
-regularly post in your class section to establish a presence and reputation as one who knows the stuff
-bonus points if you can get your thread stickied
-then post in other class sections to develop a multi class reputation
-bonus points if you can demonstate a better knowledge than that class forums "pvp pros"
-engage in heated discussions where there is no real right answer, here your dialetics skills will prevail
-the longer and more detailed post the better to ensure a victory (tl:dr counts as submission)

Go forth and you can be winner too!

*passes out popcorn to the rest*

b:pleased

Aeliah - Dreamweaver · November 2013

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Forum PvP (coz they didnt implement server vs server yet)

Requirements:
YouTube channel (MMO equivalent of a CV)
-several PvP vids with a favourable k/d ratio
-friends leaving comments on how cool you are is a plus
-several TW vids showing how YOU alone are winner
-try to omit TWs where you lost btw

High Post count
-regularly post in your class section to establish a presence and reputation as one who knows the stuff
-bonus points if you can get your thread stickied
-then post in other class sections to develop a multi class reputation
-bonus points if you can demonstate a better knowledge than that class forums "pvp pros"
-engage in heated discussions where there is no real right answer, here your dialetics skills will prevail
-the longer and more detailed post the better to ensure a victory (tl:dr counts as submission)

Go forth and you can be winner too!

*passes out popcorn to the rest*

b:pleased

You forgot:

-establish yourself as cooler than said people by snidely dissing their efforts while making no real contribution to the subject(s) being discussed

Also @ Ms. Cashing Bm, your posts are an eyesore. You stated that you have 50 dext. r8r pole requires 100 dext. *facepalm*

Also do you think bms are the only ones who can use chi drain? Durr...

b:pleased (also known as: I can use emoticons too durr)

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide · November 2013

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You forgot:

-establish yourself as cooler than said people by snidely dissing their efforts while making no real contribution to the subject(s) being discussed

Also @ Ms. Cashing Bm, your posts are an eyesore. You stated that you have 50 dext. r8r pole requires 100 dext. *facepalm*

Also do you think bms are the only ones who can use chi drain? Durr...

b:pleased (also known as: I can use emoticons too durr)[/
QUOTE]

Who said anuthing bout pole herp derp tjeres a poleaxe u know b:bye

Aeliah - Dreamweaver · November 2013

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide wrote: »

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You forgot:

-establish yourself as cooler than said people by snidely dissing their efforts while making no real contribution to the subject(s) being discussed

Also @ Ms. Cashing Bm, your posts are an eyesore. You stated that you have 50 dext. r8r pole requires 100 dext. *facepalm*

Also do you think bms are the only ones who can use chi drain? Durr...

b:pleased (also known as: I can use emoticons too durr)[/
QUOTE]

Who said anuthing bout pole herp derp tjeres a poleaxe u know b:bye

Ah, that is true, I had forgotten about that. 50 dexterity points for the r8r poleaxe. +1 points for you.

And yet... this is true... IF you initially chose axes for your r8 weapon way, way back in the day. As I recall, once you pick a weapon path for r8 weapons, you are locked to that path.

...

Well, did you pick axes? *eyebrow*

The very fact that you aren't telling me 'I have a r8 poleaxe with purge on it' pretty much answers that question. Therefore, you probably chose... fists or pole... maaaaybe swords. After all, back when you weren't pure strength build, there would be no good reason to choose r8 axes, when r9 axes hit much, much harder, and, if you did pick a r8 weapon based on its ability to purge, you would choose sword for faster purges, or pole for the +range (easier purges).

So we get back to this point. You have, assuming emperor tome... 47 to 50 dexterity points. 100 dexterity points is required for a purge pole (I am assuming that this is the r8r weapon you chose... though if you chose fists, excuse me while I go laugh my guts out, lol).

This being the case, why the bloody blazes would you not allocate a mere 50 dexterity points so you can at least purge? Hmmmmmm? You think 50 str points *really* makes all the difference in your build? I say purge would make a much larger difference in your ability to be deadly. 30k to 33k, maybe 10% more damage. Ability to remove buffs: essentially 100% more damage (comparing buffed vs unbuffed character, survivability at least doubles with buffs).

I mean really, its... a no-brainer. So obvious that... unless you really did choose r8r fists/claws (rofl), there's no good explanation for why you haven't allocated those points to use a purge weapon. And I am giving you some benefit of the doubt---despite your extremely sloppily-written posts, I'm going to assume that you aren't a complete dunce.

*eyebrow*

opkossy · November 2013

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

*snip*

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »

*snip*

I... I don't think I qualify even though I occasionally engage out of boredom. b:sad

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide · November 2013

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide wrote: »

Ah, that is true, I had forgotten about that. 50 dexterity points for the r8r poleaxe. +1 points for you.

And yet... this is true... IF you initially chose axes for your r8 weapon way, way back in the day. As I recall, once you pick a weapon path for r8 weapons, you are locked to that path.

...

Well, did you pick axes? *eyebrow*

The very fact that you aren't telling me 'I have a r8 poleaxe with purge on it' pretty much answers that question. Therefore, you probably chose... fists or pole... maaaaybe swords. After all, back when you weren't pure strength build, there would be no good reason to choose r8 axes, when r9 axes hit much, much harder, and, if you did pick a r8 weapon based on its ability to purge, you would choose sword for faster purges, or pole for the +range (easier purges).

So we get back to this point. You have, assuming emperor tome... 47 to 50 dexterity points. 100 dexterity points is required for a purge pole (I am assuming that this is the r8r weapon you chose... though if you chose fists, excuse me while I go laugh my guts out, lol).

This being the case, why the bloody blazes would you not allocate a mere 50 dexterity points so you can at least purge? Hmmmmmm? You think 50 str points *really* makes all the difference in your build? I say purge would make a much larger difference in your ability to be deadly. 30k to 33k, maybe 10% more damage. Ability to remove buffs: essentially 100% more damage (comparing buffed vs unbuffed character, survivability at least doubles with buffs).

I mean really, its... a no-brainer. So obvious that... unless you really did choose r8r fists/claws (rofl), there's no good explanation for why you haven't allocated those points to use a purge weapon. And I am giving you some benefit of the doubt---despite your extremely sloppily-written posts, I'm going to assume that you aren't a complete dunce.

*eyebrow*

If u wieved close enugh ull see the r8r poleaxe in my skill bars.. so yeah...
+ in a 1v1 whyd i ever do a buffed fight.. and even if i find myself sometimes in nw or other times doing so .. the raw dmg will kill them without purge too assuming its an la or aa.. if its ha.. the fight most likely nvr ends if both are endgame .. and your thiniing i got 50 dex gear on.. well thats is not tje case with emperor tome i got like 60 dex then on top of that rest gear/engraving values.. still not 100 dex all gear on but i dont need to be..

opkossy · November 2013

Okay looking back I just have to point out something that made me laugh rather hard.

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide wrote: »

\ But then again what would a cleric know b:chuckle

Said by the BM to the person with a cleric avatar on the BM forums.

Meanwhile on the archer forums, the aforementioned BM claims that BMs get the highest raw phys attack out of all classes and gets rebuked via:

Jarkhen - Archosaur wrote: »

http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/34789
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/34787

Not to mention bms need to stat a significant amount of dex as well, so you don't get nearly as high of a weapon damage multiplier as we do.

Come back when you've passed 33k max patk unbuffed, then we'll talk.

Remind me why you're on the archer forums?b:bye

Yes I found this absolutely hilarious and decided to share with everyone in this topic. b:chuckle

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide · November 2013

OPKossy wrote: »

Okay looking back I just have to point out something that made me laugh rather hard.

Said by the BM to the person with a cleric avatar on the BM forums.

Meanwhile on the archer forums, the aforementioned BM claims that BMs get the highest raw phys attack out of all classes and gets rebuked via:

Yes I found this absolutely hilarious and decided to share with everyone in this topic. b:chuckle

mmh well considering end game a bm has allmost same patt and with the ability to zerk hence highest raw out put dmg of phy class b:cute say what you want but thats just how it is.

TheDan - Sanctuary · November 2013

It's these kinds of threads that make me feel like playing again...

I haven't logged on in a month, but the video was pretty painful to watch... No Offense, I'd just like to give you my input and hope people can use my advice as feedback. You should use Smack and Blade hurl as a disable, not a comboing skill between locks... Reckless rush should be used as a finishing move, very rarely should it be used as a gap closer... The only exception being if you're in an air fight and you're paralyzed, and the enemy is at an uneven height so your leaps wouldn't reach. Draw blood isn't even on my hotkeys cause of how terrible it is, sage maw is a much better combo skill for chi. HF and Triple Spark is unheard of in terms of 1v1s on my server. They're too predictable and easy to kite. I'm a little confused about your genie set up, you don't want to use a vit/magic genie for 1v1. You'll do a lot better with a STR genie with high str and medium magic. Things like chi drain genies and OI and TM against the archer would have made the fight short.

The extremely long fights that could have been ended in 1 proper drake bash stun-lock combo are what make most BM videos painful to watch imo.

If you want my opinion on the whole purging concept, The R8r poleaxe is no good tbh. In 1v1s the APS is so low, and when used in Mass PvP it's virtually useless due to how low the proc rate is and how spread out people are in Mass PvP, the only people you'd be able to AoE purge in group PvP would be HAs, and then you'd be on the wrong targets. You'd have better luck purging using a standard green tt99 monarch spear to purge than a r8r poleaxe due to how low the APS is.

The problem with pure STR and pure DEX BMs are that they're both unreliable in consistent damage output therefore diminishing their PvP viability. Pure STR BMs lose the ability to zerk crit regularly and also lack the accuracy to keep a prolonged stun-lock up. Dex BMs zerk crit often but their DPH is hurt pretty bad, so the 200-220 dex built BMs get the best of both worlds in terms of balance. Of course you can always make it by... but I've never settled for just making it by especially when you have the potential to do better. I've probably tested every set up there is, I used to be sage, I used to be full axe BM, I've tested just about every possible genie skill in PvP just to build the ultimate genies...

You'd be surprised how far proper skill set up and execution goes... It's always held true since the day I started. I used to 1v1 people with twice my gear back in the day and always win just due to how well I executed my stun-locks and my finishing combos. These days anyone with insane amounts of gear is considered good, but to separate oneself from being good to becoming great takes proper set up, timing, and execution, that's all I have to say.

Aeliah - Dreamweaver · November 2013

@Dan, agree 100%.

@Ms. Visa, did not look at skillbar, and even if I saw the icon I wouldn't know if it has purge or not, so I had to assume you didn't have it. However, ty for informing me. If you *do* have it, thats better than not having at all I suppose, though unfortunately like Dan said, the aps from axes is kinda low, whether auto attacking or using skills. Still faster than purge genie though.

Interesting aside: if we talk about 'raw' damage, and you include zerk... does zerk kinda count as a skill? Eh? You say. I mean like, if we count is as a skill, then we might also include a barb's strength of titans into the equation of raw physical damage: we might expect pure str barbs to have more base physical dmg than a self-buffed bm due to strength of the titans, despite slightly less weapon damage. Or, when an archer purges, his raw physical damage doesn't change, yet the damage he does to the target jumps massively.

Of course if we start including other skills, than 'raw physical damage' starts to become harder to define again. Hands down a seeker pumps out the hardest hitting 'raw' damage with skills. 'Self-debuffs' bms can probably reach slightly higher hits, but get a seeker to hit on the debuffs the bm used on somebody, and the seeker will hit for massively more, hence more 'raw' damage.

Anyways.

@OPKossy... lol.

Cheers~

Slewdem - Dreamweaver · November 2013

Reason i made this thread was cause lately i 1v1 with 2 different archers an the misses was ridiculous.. Maybe was just a hard lucked day but ****.. Catch up to archers got um in a stun loop only to miss 3-4x in a row, ok damn they got lucky.. Catch them again same shytb:shocked

Maybe was just a bad day for meb:surrender

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide · November 2013

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgKcLACuYO4

now why wud i not want more dex --> exactly cause of the dmg nerf theres a basically your normally built bm ... (which in most cases i could just afk tank with no problem) ...
now u say i handicap myself by bying str .. i say the rest of you handicap urself with addin dex since its utterly useless to my play style b:cute every1 has theyre reasons and opinions just open ur eyes and maybe ull realize that the dex way aint the only way b:laugh sure mite work for a support bm .. but im far from a support bm so to me it wud be just rendering myself useless

Aeliah - Dreamweaver · November 2013

As always your posts are a joy to read Ms. Visa.

You do more damage to the bm through his bell + physical marrow (why wasn't he using demon bell I wonder) than he does to you through just your bell. There's no way you are similarly geared... I suspect whereas you are full jades, he has only some, or maybe he has vit stones instead. So using this as some evidence that 'full strength is better than str + some dext' isn't valid, because there are other variables to consider.

Anyways.

What I did see was that several of your kill combos (involving hf) failed due to misses somewhere during or right after the hf. Your own video shows that you miss often enough to create problems for yourself!

I still think sacrificing a few points into dext would allow you to finish people much faster on average, because you wouldn't miss as often. After a certain point, adding more dext has no point. But when you have really low accuracy, adding just a bit into dext gives really great gains in accuracy.

Abit more accuracy and crit vs loss in pattack

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