Auto Clicking

geochris
geochris Posts: 108 Arc User
edited November 2013 in General Discussion
I was trying to do the lv71-80 bounty hunter quest that required digging at the advanced grinding machine and i couldn't really get a chance to dig. The person who was digging was bragging that he had a "gaming mouse" that enabled him to auto click on the advanced grinding machine. Is auto clicking against the terms and conditions for PWI?

Thanks
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Jarkhen - Archosaur
    Jarkhen - Archosaur Posts: 990 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    PWI Terms of Service Section 16 - Official Service and Beta Testing
    You agree not to use any hardware or software, including but not limited to third party tools, or any other method of support which may in any way influence or give you an advantage in the use of the Services which is not authorized by PWE, including but not limited to the use of 'bots' and/or any other method by which the Service may be played automatically without human input.

    So no, this would not be allowed.
    Current: http://mypers.pw/1.8/#133167
    105-103-102

    TW/NW Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/Axel3200

    Some people get R93 and become another cookiecutter DD, other people get R93 and get called out as serious threats. At some point, it's just not about gear anymore. - Qui
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  • SHIMBERLY - Heavens Tear
    SHIMBERLY - Heavens Tear Posts: 703 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Lol really?Has this game gone this bad in complaints?
  • LodeJunior - Archosaur
    LodeJunior - Archosaur Posts: 561 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I think this complain is valid as the auto-clicking, depending on rate of click could be considered a mini Denial of Service attack. If you are sending in 500 clicks per second which is what a computer program can generate, it will flood the server with 500 useless messages per second and hammer the server bad, affecting other parts of the game.
  • geochris
    geochris Posts: 108 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    not only is it bad for the servers but it is hard for the rest of us to get the fruit for the bounty hunter quest.
  • Trollguard - Sanctuary
    Trollguard - Sanctuary Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Proving that a person is using an auto-clicker isn't easy to do. Someone could just rapidly be hitting the mouse button lol. (Yes you can click that fast.)

    The real problem here is that we only have one Advanced Grinding Machine. They need to either give us one or two more, or significantly decrease digging time.
  • Jarkhen - Archosaur
    Jarkhen - Archosaur Posts: 990 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Trollguard - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Proving that a person is using an auto-clicker isn't easy to do.

    Simple enough matter if, as the OP stated, the person tells you they're using one.
    Current: http://mypers.pw/1.8/#133167
    105-103-102

    TW/NW Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/Axel3200

    Some people get R93 and become another cookiecutter DD, other people get R93 and get called out as serious threats. At some point, it's just not about gear anymore. - Qui
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Salari - Raging Tide
    Salari - Raging Tide Posts: 2,102 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Jarkhen - Archosaur wrote: »
    Simple enough matter if, as the OP stated, the person tells you they're using one.

    Or they could be just talking junk, just because someone says something is true does not make it true
    Marine - Marshall - Raging Tides - Retired
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    DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver
    Yes, because people really need 900+ dex or 1000+ magic just for the lulz
  • SylenThunder - Twilight Temple
    SylenThunder - Twilight Temple Posts: 7,908
    edited November 2013
    Salari - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Or they could be just talking junk, just because someone says something is true does not make it true
    In the end, it really doesn't matter though if you take a screenshot and report it. Would really suck to get banned just cause you're talkin' smack.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • STrickeeN - Harshlands
    STrickeeN - Harshlands Posts: 273 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    the problem is that we have only 1 "ONE" advanced griding machine for an entery server. THATS IT!
  • Salari - Raging Tide
    Salari - Raging Tide Posts: 2,102 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »
    In the end, it really doesn't matter though if you take a screenshot and report it. Would really suck to get banned just cause you're talkin' smack.

    lol at that, you are very correct.
    Marine - Marshall - Raging Tides - Retired
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver
    Yes, because people really need 900+ dex or 1000+ magic just for the lulz
  • Deceptistar - Sanctuary
    Deceptistar - Sanctuary Posts: 10,454 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    There was an issue like this in the past. It was hazy because of all the technology issue we have nowadays. Basically it boiled down to 'are you present at the keyboard or not'.
    Like if you click something automated, and your not there at the screen if some GM talks to you, your out. But if your using something automated (and by automated i mean by the newer mouse and keyboards and gamepads) and you are physically present and not leaving said actions soley run by itself, then you kind of slide through that grey area.
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  • LodeJunior - Archosaur
    LodeJunior - Archosaur Posts: 561 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Trollguard - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Proving that a person is using an auto-clicker isn't easy to do. Someone could just rapidly be hitting the mouse button lol. (Yes you can click that fast.)

    The real problem here is that we only have one Advanced Grinding Machine. They need to either give us one or two more, or significantly decrease digging time.

    There is no way a human clicking on a mouse button can surpass or even match up to the speed of auto-clicking software, it can be seen at the server side. However, if the rate you set on the auto-clicker is the same rate as normal clicking, then it doesn't really matter coz you are not gaining an advantage over others.

    Simple flood scripts will be able to filter out these violators.
  • Jarkhen - Archosaur
    Jarkhen - Archosaur Posts: 990 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    LodeJunior - Archosaur wrote: »
    There is no way a human clicking on a mouse button can surpass or even match up to the speed of auto-clicking software, it can be seen at the server side. However, if the rate you set on the auto-clicker is the same rate as normal clicking, then it doesn't really matter coz you are not gaining an advantage over others.

    Simple flood scripts will be able to filter out these violators.

    Something similar to what they already have for chat might work (no more than 1 message every second; sending more than 3 messages in 5 seconds triggers flood control and mutes you. I'm not sure if flood control applies to normal/party/whisper, but I know it does in world chat and faction chat).

    Of course, there's the issue of figuring out what counts as too fast to be caused by true human interaction. I already run into this issue constantly with chat, hitting both the 1-second rule and the 3-in-5 rule even with legitimate, sentence-long messages.
    Current: http://mypers.pw/1.8/#133167
    105-103-102

    TW/NW Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/Axel3200

    Some people get R93 and become another cookiecutter DD, other people get R93 and get called out as serious threats. At some point, it's just not about gear anymore. - Qui
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • bangis2010
    bangis2010 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    is that a Safe Zone? can we just kill that guy or hit him once so he will stop digging?b:shutupb:shutup
  • LodeJunior - Archosaur
    LodeJunior - Archosaur Posts: 561 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Jarkhen - Archosaur wrote: »
    Something similar to what they already have for chat might work (no more than 1 message every second; sending more than 3 messages in 5 seconds triggers flood control and mutes you. I'm not sure if flood control applies to normal/party/whisper, but I know it does in world chat and faction chat).

    Of course, there's the issue of figuring out what counts as too fast to be caused by true human interaction. I already run into this issue constantly with chat, hitting both the 1-second rule and the 3-in-5 rule even with legitimate, sentence-long messages.

    I have slow fingers, i can click like maybe 3 times a second.. maybe give some faster fingers 5 clicks a second. Machine generated clicks can go up to 500 clicks per second, i think thats easy to distinguish.
  • freygin
    freygin Posts: 737 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I guess not every click of mouse sends packet to server, only a valid click will, so if we click like a hundred of times to dig something, only one and another one in queue will be executed.

    This game only registers like 2 actions at once, and if the character is still busy doing something, 1 other action will wait in action queue, that's why we can dig twice on a quest item sometimes, and this one action in queue can be changed while the first action is going on, not sure if it sends packets if we keep changing it (by clicking or skill shortcut) or only happens in our computer/client-side which will not send packet to server and thus makes it undetectable. I guess it only happens client-side or else the server will be flooded with unnecessary packets.
  • LodeJunior - Archosaur
    LodeJunior - Archosaur Posts: 561 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    freygin wrote: »
    I guess not every click of mouse sends packet to server, only a valid click will, so if we click like a hundred of times to dig something, only one and another one in queue will be executed.
    .

    Nope, every click generates a message to the server to ask if the device is available and tries to use the device. The client-side is only graphical display and does none of the logic.
  • Jarkhen - Archosaur
    Jarkhen - Archosaur Posts: 990 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    LodeJunior - Archosaur wrote: »
    I have slow fingers, i can click like maybe 3 times a second.. maybe give some faster fingers 5 clicks a second. Machine generated clicks can go up to 500 clicks per second, i think thats easy to distinguish.

    I just timed myself clicking at 403 clicks in 30 seconds = 13.4 clicks per second. A reasonable flood control might be somewhere around >30 or >50 clicks per second.
    Current: http://mypers.pw/1.8/#133167
    105-103-102

    TW/NW Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/Axel3200

    Some people get R93 and become another cookiecutter DD, other people get R93 and get called out as serious threats. At some point, it's just not about gear anymore. - Qui
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • LodeJunior - Archosaur
    LodeJunior - Archosaur Posts: 561 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Lol, i am slow...

    http://www.urban75.com/Mag/java7.html

    63 clicks in 10 secs for me :(
  • Jarkhen - Archosaur
    Jarkhen - Archosaur Posts: 990 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    LodeJunior - Archosaur wrote: »
    Lol, i am slow...

    http://www.urban75.com/Mag/java7.html

    63 clicks in 10 secs for me :(

    That test doesn't seem to count clicks that are close enough together; I was only able to get 76 and after testing it figured out that some were being skipped.
    Current: http://mypers.pw/1.8/#133167
    105-103-102

    TW/NW Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/Axel3200

    Some people get R93 and become another cookiecutter DD, other people get R93 and get called out as serious threats. At some point, it's just not about gear anymore. - Qui
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • LodeJunior - Archosaur
    LodeJunior - Archosaur Posts: 561 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Jarkhen - Archosaur wrote: »
    That test doesn't seem to count clicks that are close enough together; I was only able to get 76 and after testing it figured out that some were being skipped.


    Yep, real world human mouse clicks(targeted), applications may not register the click, but if it is machine generated, the mouse clicks will be 100% registered.
  • FragiIe - Dreamweaver
    FragiIe - Dreamweaver Posts: 397 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Why isn't there a grinding machine at the other jolly jones npc's?
  • FragiIe - Dreamweaver
    FragiIe - Dreamweaver Posts: 397 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I would suggest we don't turn this into an issue or else they may take it away period!
  • LodeJunior - Archosaur
    LodeJunior - Archosaur Posts: 561 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    FragiIe - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I would suggest we don't turn this into an issue or else they may take it away period!

    I think this auto-clicking on the grinding machine is causing a lot of lag that we are facing today and potentially also the uncalled for disconnects, it can't be ignored. Remember the same network pipe serves all messages, it affects everyone.
  • FlyRanger - Dreamweaver
    FlyRanger - Dreamweaver Posts: 263 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Heh...I get booted from server for clicking to fast sometimes..and I'm just spamming hotkeys.
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    I know what the PWI community wants.

    b:laugh
  • Eastling - Dreamweaver
    Eastling - Dreamweaver Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Good luck with this, the difference between a bot and gaming keyboards/mice is subjective.
  • Jarkhen - Archosaur
    Jarkhen - Archosaur Posts: 990 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    FlyRanger - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Heh...I get booted from server for clicking to fast sometimes..and I'm just spamming hotkeys.

    I've had this issue as well, from spam-clicking to buy large quantities of chips from the boutique.
    Current: http://mypers.pw/1.8/#133167
    105-103-102

    TW/NW Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/Axel3200

    Some people get R93 and become another cookiecutter DD, other people get R93 and get called out as serious threats. At some point, it's just not about gear anymore. - Qui
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Ninuska - Lost City
    Ninuska - Lost City Posts: 92 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Or they could just give everyone 3 fruits when you get the quest and then each time you dig, one would disappear. Sounds simple enough, even though I don't know how hard it would be to implement.
  • Draykarna - Sanctuary
    Draykarna - Sanctuary Posts: 192 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    The thing that makes me scratch my head is why would someone think it necessary to use such a program for the advanced grinding machine? Other than perhaps getting in before everyone else and not having to wait your turn?

    I think complaints like this should be looked into. As they say where there is smoke there is fire. If they are using a potentially game prohibited program or whatever, then what else are they using in other areas of the game. Gaining unfair advantage and as people have said possibly cause server issues.

    If perhaps the line is that much of an issue that more impatient individuals need to resort to such methods then as other people have said add more machines or lessen the time it takes to dig. Maybe even a lil of both? Would that be so hard to implement?

    There again when it comes to certain individuals they do things solely just to be a pain the ***.......f:angry
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