APS BUILT SIN vs rrr9 seeker

unnimeni
unnimeni Posts: 48 Arc User
edited November 2013 in Assassin
i was just wondering if an aps sin with rrr9 dags only can face a rrr9 seeker full josd.
same lvl/rafinement.

whou'd win?
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • ErlangQR - Dreamweaver
    ErlangQR - Dreamweaver Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    It actually depends on the refines on the weapon and the armor.
    as the armor refines increase, the seeker loses the advantage of the +30 def buff and superior armor so sin wins.
    as the weapon refines increase, the sin loses the advantage of the aps damage so seeker wins.
    the exact distribution is shown on this graph:


    x = adjusted weapon refine
    y = adjusted armor refine
    higher value = more chance for seeker win
    lower = more chance for sin win
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  • Salari - Raging Tide
    Salari - Raging Tide Posts: 2,102 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Sorry, this page does not exist on the Wolfram|Alpha site.

    f:bikef:brick
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  • Veneir - Dreamweaver
    Veneir - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,541 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Salari - Raging Tide wrote: »
    f:bikef:brick

    It actually did work when it was originally posted; granted, said link is now broken for me as well.
    Anyway, as I wanted to post when I first saw this thread:
    .....? Why is this a thread? Something with mixed lower tier LA armours for APS against a full r9rrr JOSD...? Let alone a Seeker? Unless I'm missing something here...? Which I only say because it's so absurd?
    Thrieya - Lost City wrote: »
    A bunch of serious-looking symbols divided by the square root of minus one times ghost times sad cat? Lobster?
    Quoted for application OTL
    ...
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  • Walpurga - Dreamweaver
    Walpurga - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,028 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Seeker uses Battousai

    Zerkcrit on Sin for ~twice his HP bar

    /thread
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  • KingCrash - Dreamweaver
    KingCrash - Dreamweaver Posts: 702 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    You make a really vague question based completely on gear alone.

    I'm assuming you're thinking the sin and seeker are just going to auto-attack each other until one of them drops. If so, lol.
  • skaitavia
    skaitavia Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Unless the sin can lock the seeker long enough to attempt to APS him/her to death, the seeker will win. A couple of attacks and the sin will drop.
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  • Rekabu - Archosaur
    Rekabu - Archosaur Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    spark + lock if he can be kept locked only xD b:laugh hv a chance
  • Jesusisback - Raging Tide
    Jesusisback - Raging Tide Posts: 480 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    You'd be surprised at how much dps an aps sin can do with +12 r9rr daggers lol cut through dat HA and JoSD like hot butter son b:laugh don't underestimate what a good aps sin can do (with the refines to survive a few hits).
  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Glass cannon scenario. Well, I guess since its aps its more like glass oozie.

    It'll only take the seeker about 3 hits to kill that sin (one on a zerk crit). So AD->Blade Affinity->kill, or telestun-> kill. All he'd have to do is survive long enough to get those off. An r9t3 sin could prolly kill him in about 10 seconds, but that can be hard to do if trying to stunlock him also. If he lets go of the stunlock its an opening for the seeker to kill him.
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  • PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver
    PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,507 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Salari - Raging Tide wrote: »
    f:bikef:brick

    well it was the 3D graph on this: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=e^x*y^3+-+x^2
    b:chuckle
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  • ZooozOOo - Archosaur
    ZooozOOo - Archosaur Posts: 486 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Jesusisback - Raging Tide wrote: »
    You'd be surprised at how much dps an aps sin can do with +12 r9rr daggers lol cut through dat HA and JoSD like hot butter son b:laugh don't underestimate what a good aps sin can do (with the refines to survive a few hits).

    all the above comments were made by sins who r probably rr9r+12 so they kno..

    it does hits hard bt ur normal g13+r8 aps set even with +10 n daden will probably last 2-3hits max
  • Deadalus - Harshlands
    Deadalus - Harshlands Posts: 546 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    ZooozOOo - Archosaur wrote: »
    all the above comments were made by sins who r probably rr9r+12 so they kno..

    it does hits hard bt ur normal g13+r8 aps set even with +10 n daden will probably last 2-3hits max

    This.

    When you get lucky, you will maybe last a few hits more, but when the seeker gets a zerk crit, you will be almost a onehit.

    Ofcourse we speak of seekers who are aware of their abilitys and the danger a sin can be, maybe you fight against a seeker who doesnt know, how to counter or thinks, that his def lv + def will cover the little damage an aps user can do.

    I had both scenarios, r9rr seekers who counter well and killed me pretty fast (in NW) or a seeker who was doing nothing harmfull (Tried to use Vortex.. lol) and was an easy kill with 3 spark + 100STR Tangling.

    But i would avoid those seekers, when you have an APS set, they hurt...bad
  • ZooozOOo - Archosaur
    ZooozOOo - Archosaur Posts: 486 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Deadalus - Harshlands wrote: »
    This.

    When you get lucky, you will maybe last a few hits more, but when the seeker gets a zerk crit, you will be almost a onehit.

    Ofcourse we speak of seekers who are aware of their abilitys and the danger a sin can be, maybe you fight against a seeker who doesnt know, how to counter or thinks, that his def lv + def will cover the little damage an aps user can do.

    I had both scenarios, r9rr seekers who counter well and killed me pretty fast (in NW) or a seeker who was doing nothing harmfull (Tried to use Vortex.. lol) and was an easy kill with 3 spark + 100STR Tangling.

    But i would avoid those seekers, when you have an APS set, they hurt...bad

    well when a seeker is +10refine or more n josd i think n strongly belive that he will kno how to counter well so XD
  • Deadalus - Harshlands
    Deadalus - Harshlands Posts: 546 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    ZooozOOo - Archosaur wrote: »
    well when a seeker is +10refine or more n josd i think n strongly belive that he will kno how to counter well so XD

    Yes and no.

    Gear never tells you, how good the player is, maybe he just bought the character on ebay and its his first NW, who knows.
    Sure you could say, that he/she would know some standart basic stuff but you cant tell for sure and not every r9rr seeker or in general every r9rr isnt full +10 or full JOSD, maybe some immacs or +5 refine? Everything is possible :P
  • Chuck_smith - Sanctuary
    Chuck_smith - Sanctuary Posts: 305 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    R9 Seeker will win even if the APS sin had higher refines than the seeker, just a simple edged blur, auto hit to make proc for gemini slash to proc (easy proc) and BA + gemini slash then bye bye sin b:bye
    Sage barb in progress.
  • ZooozOOo - Archosaur
    ZooozOOo - Archosaur Posts: 486 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Deadalus - Harshlands wrote: »
    Yes and no.

    Gear never tells you, how good the player is, maybe he just bought the character on ebay and its his first NW, who knows.
    Sure you could say, that he/she would know some standart basic stuff but you cant tell for sure and not every r9rr seeker or in general every r9rr isnt full +10 or full JOSD, maybe some immacs or +5 refine? Everything is possible :P

    or a pro seeker who got dced bt his char didnt log off yet XD b:laugh
  • Brivido - Dreamweaver
    Brivido - Dreamweaver Posts: 81 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    low end r9rr seeker sin has a chance to win (you can even oneshot them using chill and what not)

    High end r9rr seeker (+12 gear and josd) sin has no chance (consider that I 3xspark crit gof with 171 att lvl for 7k target had ep too... yes, r9rr+12)

    edit: forgot to mention, in all this they can kill you at a whim

    edit 2: also massive difference, are the chars buffed? sins get a little help from buffs, seekers will be hugely impacted by buffs
  • HideYoHubby - Archosaur
    HideYoHubby - Archosaur Posts: 995 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Seekers are stupid broken, ability to zerk metal attacks is a bad joke. They have ridiculous defenses - I have dropped 45k hp barb and I keep beating our top tier PK barbs on open map PK but seekers? First trough genie, then trough apo, then trough genie again if their genie aint god horrible. There is just too much sht to go trough for them to not get some hits in and basically **** you. The QPQ is also god annoying, taking away the tool you usually use for HA targets (Tackling slash -> Triple spark -> Stunlock).

    Ps. I tend to avoid seekers unless I outgear them massively and even then a smart one is a pain. Then again my daggers are +12 but they are N3, thus Im missing zerk.
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  • tsyfall
    tsyfall Posts: 9
    edited June 2013
    HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »
    Seekers are stupid broken, ability to zerk metal attacks is a bad joke. They have ridiculous defenses - I have dropped 45k hp barb and I keep beating our top tier PK barbs on open map PK but seekers? First trough genie, then trough apo, then trough genie again if their genie aint god horrible. There is just too much sht to go trough for them to not get some hits in and basically **** you. The QPQ is also god annoying, taking away the tool you usually use for HA targets (Tackling slash -> Triple spark -> Stunlock).

    Ps. I tend to avoid seekers unless I outgear them massively and even then a smart one is a pain. Then again my daggers are +12 but they are N3, thus Im missing zerk.

    I've really had no trouble vs seeker compared to other classes. They're just different from the rest of the classes. The difficulty isn't inherent in the seeker; it's adjusting to fighting them.

    Top tier PK barbs on Archosaur are pathetic... but meh <_< Seekers have ridiculous defenses, yes, but if you ask a seeker to just sit still and take damage, they actually still take a considerable amount. The problem lies in either 1. tanking their damage so you live long enough to get a good span of DD, or 2. locking them down (which is hard if they're smart).

    I feel that metal zerk is unpleasant but necessary. Full josd vs josd, a seeker cannot kill me, a sin, without metal zerk (old Pserver). And even then they'll be hardpressed to kill me with physical damage alone.

    As for aps sins: Last time I remember, I killed a full S3 seeker using G16+6 using sage triple spark. This was due to a combination of factors, but here are the main ones as I see it:

    1. Sage spark allowed me to tank till I got enough chi from APS till headhunt.
    2. I ribstriked to reduce maximum HP before I ticked charm. (Sage benefit).
    3. I triplesparked the seeker's blade affinity + quid pro quo. This prevented them from reflecting my own freeze, but also their own Sacrificial Slash, rendering them even squishier than normal.

    The last point is something I find extraordinarily useful against seekers. Endgame, a seeker's main combo is sac slash + quid pro quo, while affinitied. Smart sins who can predict/recognize the 30 second cycle can double, triple, or if you're me, single spark to block their QPQ. This both helps yourself and renders a seeker vulnerable. Quid Pro Quo will not work if you have immunity up, and spark, or IG, sutra, or AD will help tremendously with that.

    Finally, Heart of Steel is extraordinarily efficient for APS sins. Due to a sin's need for APS, they'll usually stack physical rings + TT99 physical ornaments... thus an aps sin has a naturally higher pdef. By spamming pdef charms + using heart of steel to block magical damage, a sin can make it so that they're as tanky as a full r9 character.... while maintaining their dps.
  • HideYoHubby - Archosaur
    HideYoHubby - Archosaur Posts: 995 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    tsyfall wrote: »
    I've really had no trouble vs seeker compared to other classes. They're just different from the rest of the classes. The difficulty isn't inherent in the seeker; it's adjusting to fighting them.

    Top tier PK barbs on Archosaur are pathetic... but meh <_< Seekers have ridiculous defenses, yes, but if you ask a seeker to just sit still and take damage, they actually still take a considerable amount. The problem lies in either 1. tanking their damage so you live long enough to get a good span of DD, or 2. locking them down (which is hard if they're smart).

    I feel that metal zerk is unpleasant but necessary. Full josd vs josd, a seeker cannot kill me, a sin, without metal zerk (old Pserver). And even then they'll be hardpressed to kill me with physical damage alone.

    As for aps sins: Last time I remember, I killed a full S3 seeker using G16+6 using sage triple spark. This was due to a combination of factors, but here are the main ones as I see it:

    1. Sage spark allowed me to tank till I got enough chi from APS till headhunt.
    2. I ribstriked to reduce maximum HP before I ticked charm. (Sage benefit).
    3. I triplesparked the seeker's blade affinity + quid pro quo. This prevented them from reflecting my own freeze, but also their own Sacrificial Slash, rendering them even squishier than normal.

    The last point is something I find extraordinarily useful against seekers. Endgame, a seeker's main combo is sac slash + quid pro quo, while affinitied. Smart sins who can predict/recognize the 30 second cycle can double, triple, or if you're me, single spark to block their QPQ. This both helps yourself and renders a seeker vulnerable. Quid Pro Quo will not work if you have immunity up, and spark, or IG, sutra, or AD will help tremendously with that.

    Finally, Heart of Steel is extraordinarily efficient for APS sins. Due to a sin's need for APS, they'll usually stack physical rings + TT99 physical ornaments... thus an aps sin has a naturally higher pdef. By spamming pdef charms + using heart of steel to block magical damage, a sin can make it so that they're as tanky as a full r9 character.... while maintaining their dps.

    Well I have killed gunny 1 vs 1, granted he made a mistake on cycle where I killed him but meh. Head been trying to get me of late, think we are something like 3 - 0 for me past week. No other barbs really PK that matter, I should totally troll taxi into PKing me one of these days.

    As for seekers though? I been making genies to upgrade my PvP genie from 70 LP to 81+, bout 300m spirit later still no genie, QQ. But point being my genie really doesnt have room for elemental immunity skills atm. Then again I am cautious in my use of defense charms, I just hate to burn them, granted we been doing TM SoT and if I can land some more runs before expansion Ill be sitting comfy over 1k defense charms. Its the inevitable breaks on locks that mess me up, if they couldnt deal so absurd damage in few hits, it really wouldnt be such a big deal. But when you are forced to use spark cycle to get trough their charm like against barbs and they can really 1shot you discounting deaden, its really just stupid imbalanced fight with no room for errors.

    Ps. Back to cleaning, my ride should be here in a hour and said I would clean before that <.<.
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  • mrtitanperfect94
    mrtitanperfect94 Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    ill tell you what. best sins doesnt need thats stupid aps set for kill people,
    i meant wtf man realy is everyone sin here using just aps here for everything? atleast the info i got for aps set is farming or killing bosses only why bother using aps when they make you all almost 1-3 hits dead from every high dealer class even with high refines, please the best aps gear i ever seen is RR8 Rank 8 Recasted with aps on chest and boots but the chance to get it from re rolls sucks more money honestly but it resist alot of more tan that stupid squichy aps gear. means if you are a sin r9 or g16 high refine with aps rr8 gear you wlill probaly survive alot of more. now talking about aps. the normal sin aps is 1.43 atack per second, and some sins are full rrr9. why you think they will bother to change the rrr9 for the squichy gear? lol thats stupid well right with demon /sage spark +power dash+ debuffs/stun/silence you make it but if it fails you are death. now with a full g16/rrr9 sin with 1.43 aps probably will increase to 1.86 with some genie skill or demon spark but im not so sure. now that aps is not slow is the normal aps. and if its full g16/rrr9 high refined. for self experience you can still killing them also dealing more damage for the extra stats of this gear. also resists ganks from some noobs spamming atacks on you while killing and dont be 1-3 shooted by some rrr9 range people that just laughs at your stupid squichy gear after death for low resistance. think about it. also with chill you can 1-3 shoots some magic clases or others squichy sins/clases out there. so dont bother much about aps. its more about how pro you are. you should read how to thread agaisnt every class to increase your knowledge in pvp duels pk nw tw whathever. cya around.

    you cant kill me but...
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  • SweetieBot - Lothranis
    SweetieBot - Lothranis Posts: 18,978 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    mrtitanperfect94 wrote: »
    ill tell you what. best sins doesnt need thats stupid aps set for kill people,

    i meant wtf man realy is everyone sin here using just aps here for everything? atleast the info i got for aps set is farming or killing bosses only why bother using aps when they make you all almost 1-3 hits dead from every high dealer class even with high refines, please the best aps gear i ever seen is RR8 Rank 8 Recasted with aps on chest and boots but the chance to get it from re rolls sucks more money honestly but it resist alot of more tan that stupid squichy aps gear. means if you are a sin r9 or g16 high refine with aps rr8 gear you wlill probaly survive alot of more. now talking about aps. the normal sin aps is 1.43 atack per second, and some sins are full rrr9. why you think they will bother to change the rrr9 for the squichy gear? lol thats stupid well right with demon /sage spark +power dash+ debuffs/stun/silence you make it but if it fails you are death. now with a full g16/rrr9 sin with 1.43 aps probably will increase to 1.86 with some genie skill or demon spark but im not so sure. now that aps is not slow is the normal aps. and if its full g16/rrr9 high refined. for self experience you can still killing them also dealing more damage for the extra stats of this gear. also resists ganks from some noobs spamming atacks on you while killing and dont be 1-3 shooted by some rrr9 range people that just laughs at your stupid squichy gear after death for low resistance. think about it. also with chill you can 1-3 shoots some magic clases or others squichy sins/clases out there. so dont bother much about aps. its more about how pro you are. you should read how to thread agaisnt every class to increase your knowledge in pvp duels pk nw tw whathever. cya around.


    you cant kill me but...

    i can take all of you down at once!...
    NECROOO!!!!!!!

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  • mrtitanperfect94
    mrtitanperfect94 Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    i think i forgot to talk about a live fight against them so here i go again with this tip:

    other think is that seekers use metal damage on alot of skills as magic atack added. so try use inmune to metal on genie or anti metal reduce pots, when they cast skills on you. same with clerics they are all metal damage lol also use the 2 skills that you got to interrumpts their castings. use anti stun too just in case they are planning make stun on you. dont let them get on you so easy. and if you cant kill them. put that **** to sleep and stealths or run out of there xDD lol you cant be a hero all times. some fulls rrr9 knows that after experience their first death by ganked for 10-30 players. yea. being good geared means you are the high thread so you are the most targetted there.
    someone said that most refine seeker gets the less defense lvl they get. how noob you are to say that lol i was like WTF hes saying?? refine has nothing to do with atacks or defense levels!. thats all. laters...


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  • skaitavia
    skaitavia Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Closed for necro
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