Bm's ?

I think a lot just quit.

I see a Sasquatch more than I do a BladeMaster

Crazybladema - Harshlands wrote: »

There was a reason a mass amount quit. Recently many left because of purify and r999. A lot rerolled other classes because of the huge amount of skill it takes to use a bm (properly) and because they are underpowered. In short they are now a support class, they are kinda gimpy in 1v1 with other classes and can't properly stun lock/amp reliably anymore in some cases (purify).

^ This even if I am not an harshlanderian. You're much more likely to find a bm in pve, than nw. Not sure about tw. Still though... there are plenty of reasons why bm's have quit/went to a new class in droves.

I think a popular choice among them are Psychics/Seekers. Personally I went to seeker, though I still have my bm for pve instances... i still so prefer the seeker for mass pvp.

BM was my main on Harshlands. I loved it. So much versabitliy with the 4 wep paths. I always carried 7 weps with me and liked to collect cool weps. DG + pole lv59 amp(forgot name), debuff pole, blade for range or kiting enemies. The 2 sprint skills+ holy path, aps I had 4 aps sparked with my deicide back then. Pvp axe zerk spike damage, Axe AOEs, morai cyclone , morai stun tp, stun AOE, heavy armor.
-snip- I made this Archer now

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Sint - Harshlands wrote: »

It takes a huge amount of skill to play a bm? Wut? I think even Evangelos could master stunlocking given another year.

Purify matters when the most effective path in endgame pvp (you know, where people have r999 weaps) is pure axe? Also, how many mages can risk sitting around and hoping their puri procs before they take a zerk crit, and how many will BoC asap?

BMs are gimpy in 1 v 1? Really? There are vids of BMs ON PVE SERVERS killing r999 barbs.

Once you have effectively pvpd and played on a bm toon for 2+ years. You will understand exactly what I'm trying to say. As for r999 it will be something ill never experience using. I don't cash-shop and its too much of a pain in the rear to farm. Not everyone can accomplish such a feat f2p. As for the stun locking though. It's a lot harder to do than you think. Also, I know how to use axes so don't go there. Effective pvp on a bm revolves around chii management, amp/stun combo's, specific genie setups and a bit of luck. Also, if you think bms are so op, please feel free to roll one.

This constant BM underpowered QQ is getting really old. There is nothing wrong with BMs at end game.. if you are going to run around in sub-par gear as a class that is supposed to tank, well what do you think is going to happen? It'd be like a DD class running around with an unrefined **** weapon and not being able to figure out why they aren't effective.

BMs at end game are ridiculously tanky, I'd be surprised if a competently played BM would ever die in a 1v1 situation. So while being stupidly annoying to kill, they become a thorn in your side with tons of CC, debuffs/amps, ability to purge, and all the random stuff (reel in, leaps, pdef buffing people, etc. etc.). There is absolutely nothing wrong with BMs in terms of balance, just people that don't understand the role of the class or don't understand that their noob gear =/= endgame.

Not that BM's are underpowered, its our role in PVP to die, most are set up to take 2-4 massive hits before going down, and since a lot of us went demon we don't have the chi management (skill) needed to keep those axes out, and since most have to have 2 sets of gear 1 speed and 1 tanking it just gets expensive and to be honest, working a BM in a pvp set is hard work, not like all you that just pop a micro, we need a macro for each weapon type...its a lot of work, AND you have to remember what that macro does. how many time have ya all clicked a macro as a BM and it didn't work cause you had the wrong weapons out??

The way it is now, in TW, your trained to use axes only, run, stun, dg, die, res, repeat.
and since your normally first through the hole to clear out a lane, you get targeted by EVERYONE. I get one shoted at times, I look at my bar and noticed 9 people hit me for that one shot. People went to the seeker class for 2 reasons, One its a BM without the headaches, and two they dance purty.

BM's are getting major buffs literally every patch. Reel-in is also pretty effective CC. A Good endgame BM is about as hard to kill as a good barb as well, except they're far more valuable in mass pvp.

Purify proc is really only reliable vs APS or if a bunch of low lvl geared players are hitting you. Yes, it's sad that purify screwed BM's when it was primarily designed to nerf aps, but the devs have really buffed BM more than any other class in the game.

IF you still think BM's are that old fashioned, low damage, decent CC class...well they've changed quite a bit. Go to ecatomb and compare BM skills to a seeker, then realize how much seekers suck and how good BM's are atm (and when they receive even more buffs in the future).

Seekers were buffed almost as much as BM's and STILL suck balls in pvp.

Divine_Death - Dreamweaver wrote: »

What buffs have BMs got in the past 8 months that I haven't played? Also, Purify procs quite a bit against axes, at least once per 1.5 stun rotation. I'm not sure if you're all forgetting Dex genie stun breaks and anti stun. Unless major things changed in the past 8 months, it was basically impossible to lock any Purify caster more than 10 seconds.

There is undoubtedly a few things I disagree with... with the last few posts, but I am just going to comment on the 'new' skills that we have got. (I must say this I am just going to list the non 'built-in' skill that we got... as in the morai skills.... which I do believe has been in the game for far longer than 8 months.)

Anyways without further ado.

We have gotten:

Blade Hurl: Throw your weapon at the cost of being disarmed for 3 seconds.
You disarm all enemies within 8 meters for 6 seconds,
dealing base physical damage, 100% weapon damage and an additional 3500 physical damage.
100 percent accuracy.
Requires 35 chi

(Side Note: Yes it is useful to stop the purify proc... but really I dont think people realize how situational it is... and with how few bms seem to even be in mass pvp these days... the skill doesn't see much use.)

(side note 2:) It used to disarm both of us for the same amount of time from my recollection anyways.

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Sword Cyclone:Create a whirling tempest of fiery rage, inflicting
physical damage to all enemies within 10 meters
every 3 seconds. Lasts for 12 seconds.
Damage is equal to 200% of weapon damage plus
2500 to 6500 physical damage, depending on Soulforce.
Immune to any control debuffs while in this state, but
cannot use skills, genie skills, or other attacks.

Recharges 2 Sparks over the 12 second duration.

---

Flame tsunami:Available when Health is lower than 75%.
Attack enemies in a 12 meters line, dealing
base physical damage, 200% weapon damage,
and an additional 7200 physical damage,
Has a 90% chance to stun enemies for 3 seconds.
100 percent accuracy.

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Reel In:Pull the enemy toward you.

Against targets of the same level and Soulforce, success rate will be 70%,
with a success rate range between 40% and 100%,
depending on both players' Soulforce.

Requires 50 Chi to cast.

---

Reckless Rush:Charge instantly to your enemy, immobilizing it for 3 seconds.
You deal 20% of your base physical damage.
When enemy's Health is lower than 50%, you deal 2 times damage.

The skill cannot land a critical hit, but has three times your critical hit chance of dealing 1.5x damage.

Costs 50 Chi to cast.

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They all seem really nice on paper/assuming the bm can survive long enough/stay near others so they can benefit from his... or her's 'work' as none of those skills allow for a better survivial rate, nor do any of them really allow the bm to kill.... except for sword cyclone... that one is undoubtedly powerful... but still as you can see a lot of them cost chi.... almost seems like every one of our skills cost chi. (yes i am exaggerating... but i did say 'seems like'.... so yea... those are the skills we got.)

Ok I lied, there is a couple of things I really just have to point out/correct... whatever you want to call it.... but still.

Marrows ARE a double edged sword, they're the most ridiculously overrated skills to say bms have... sure they are nice in true end game gear... but they are imho the most sharp double edged sword in game. (At least with a psys vodoos they lose attack but gain a significant amount of def level... or they can gain an ability to hit ridiculously hard and have range on their side (Edit: yes it isat a cost to their def lvls, but meh so what if they're one shoting everything in sight. xD) but with the bm's marrows... 10k phys def, and 7kish magical defense that is just laughable... especially when so many people keep saying marrows are so 'useful'... please... xD. (For the record my defs are 15kish, and 10kish with demon marrow up (this is just with my own demon bell + altar marrow magical up... its 10k phys def, and 10k mag def with demon bells buff worn away)... It's 14k phys def with clerics buffs no demon bell boost, 11k mag def... WHEN marrow magical is up.... 19k phys def when demon bells 15 second boost is on ... with 14kish hp... (on lvl 11 hp buff) still i do remember those times where my def was the aforementioned 7k mag def/10k phys def... that REALLY hurts. Especially with what a bm has to go through in mass pvp.)

Also one more thing... If our skills updates were that 'badass' as someone tried to make it out to be.. then where have all the bms gone? I don't see many (<-- keyword!) bms on my server for nw, I have even noticed an uptick in people requesting them for instances... I wonder why that is... though I do have my theories... they are just that theories.

EDIT: Bm's aren't exactly that weak... but they sure as hell aint that strong either. << xD

Divine_Death - Dreamweaver wrote: »

We all know badass OP class always has the least population. Look at how few Sins there were.

All those skills existed while I still played, so in short, nothing.

To be the fair they are the 'new skills'... we did get a few tweaks to the skills that we had before not sure when though.

Leaps do infact have special side effects now... I think that is the most noteable/noticeable, but neither are that badass at all... though YES they are nice... when they work... but both new side effects only work during the leaps... so there is very little window to benefit from the skills.

EDIT: In other words I did forget a few skill updates, and even now I am, but meh the leaps are the most noticeable, that and perhaps blade hurl... but realy 6 seconds isnt a whole lot of time. (even if they have to re-equip their weapon)

Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »

Sins are a joke ATM, but there are still tons of them. The biggest reason ppl played BM and sin was for nirv farming imo

Sins aren't really a joke atm. It's just that there's a lack of them that are actually good at the r9rr DPH build and those still sitting in APS set are now like 10x squishier than they were when it was just r9 and 2nd recast Nirvy running around.

Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »

Sins are a joke ATM, but there are still tons of them. The biggest reason ppl played BM and sin was for nirv farming imo

Also, people played bms because they were fun. Until purify proc that is. Then it was just boring and painful to be a bm. Whats the point of having all those awesome stuns and cc? When they just get removed randomly quite often and your class relies on them to be viable.

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

Purify proc unfortunately had to happen because it wasn't fun to just sit there in a stunlock waiting to be APS'd to death by some sin or BM.

It had to happen because they refuse to nerf Sin. Don't pin this on BM. There were what, 2-3 fists BM on the server that don't get two shotted? And maybe 5 in total, being generous, that knows how to properly stun lock with out OI?

Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »

I agree "joke"may not have been the best way to describe them, but even +12 Adversity sins have trouble killing an average +10 r9rr caster with even just cleric buffs. This comes from personal experience fighting a few +12 Adversity sins as well as watching them fight other casters.

Their CC capability might be a bit better than BM's, but it also comes with 0 utility, and they don't have any finishers besides a lucky zerk crit or triple sparking, which is ironically what Axe BM's have always had to rely on.

The main diff is that BM's also have stuff like marrows, dragon, aoe stuns, blade tornado (after buffs), and reel-in, all of which have a lot of group pvp utility.

All in all I don't think they even hit that much harder than seekers.

*head meets desk*

*don't do it sliv... don't do it.*

*walks backwards slowly.* <<

*eye twitching*

Seriously I am trying not to post anything about that... but I am EXTREMELY tempted. <<

FFS.... f:fume b:infuriated

If all of that was as good as you made it sound all the time bms wouldn't be quitting in droves in favor of a new class. IJS! (Yes there is still a few bms on server who still do play around in mass pvp... but seriously... enough with trying to make those all sound better than they actually are... at least with ranged if your outgeared, or even potentially out skilled, you can still get in a few shots/lucky kills etc, the same may be able to be said about under-geared bm's/melees... but still range is superior to what a melee has to go through.

Beside those aoe stuns/cc skill you mentioned while they are useful... they're only REALLY useful if people are stupid enough to stand near each other, which most people are smart enough to keep their distance from others, the aoe range/effectiveness area of ROTP is so low it is extremely difficult to get off on more than one person at a time... most of the time it is anyways. Don't get me started on that pos purify proc... even if it does have it's weaknesses... it is OPED... as I have said before just because something has it's weaknesses it does NOT mean it isn't oped/let alone game breaking!

Again marrows ARE a double edged sword BEFORE true endgame gear for goodness sakes. << At least acknowledge that, instead of making it sound like they are so badass/useful. Besides what bm in their right mind would use altar marrow physical in mass pvp? Ergo that marrow is COMPLETELY useless for mass pvp!

Bah... I am not trying to say they're completely helpless all the time, but what they do have to go through compared to ANY other class make it completely unflattering to many bms. It makes it REAL hard to support on a budget without having to spend millions (hyperbole!) on apo/charms... or HAVING to stay near others which bms HAVE to do in order to stay alive/let others benefit from their suicidal run in.

I swear if I didn't like bm's the most/think bms had it the absolute worse of any other class in game, I would be content with them... ergo I wouldn't be jumping 'down' on anyone for acting like they're so useful. AGAIN I GET IT THEY GET FAR BETTER IN END GAME GEAR... I AM TALKING ABOUT EARLY END GAME GEAR, and THE SKILLS THEY HAVE TO USE TO ACTUALLY BE USEFUL REGARDLESS OF THEIR GEAR/CHOICE OF NOT GOING IN WITH A SQUAD. b:angry *smokes release from ears*

Anyways b:surrender ... I am so tired of feeling like I am "correcting" people who don't share my opinion. (EDIT:) I so have the feeling that quite a few of you are going to just brush this off as just another QQ by a nab bm... and thats fine do what you what... I am just tired of all the arguable misleading information being given out about bm's. Sure they are nice in end game gear... but most anything before that struggles significantly, especially when you look at what the other classes actually have to work with. (talking about same gear even... even when only in partial g16 gear... it's quite clear to me what each class has to work with... including bm's. *rages some more*

Still I do feel there is a reason (more than 1) why there has been so few bms in nw/so many bms going to a new class for nw/mass pvp.

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Ok I think it's time for me to go take a chill pill... I was definitely raging a bit there, sorry. :$ (EDIT: Ok I took 15 of them still not calm. *RAGES* ... I'll calm down soon enough. :P

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

*head meets desk*

*don't do it sliv... don't do it.*

*walks backwards slowly.* <<

*eye twitching*

Seriously I am trying not to post anything about that... but I am EXTREMELY tempted. <<

FFS.... f:fume b:infuriated

If all of that was as good as you made it sound all the time bms wouldn't be quitting in droves in favor of a new class. IJS! (Yes there is still a few bms on server who still do play around in mass pvp... but seriously... enough with trying to make those all sound better than they actually are... at least with ranged if your outgeared, or even potentially out skilled, you can still get in a few shots/lucky kills etc, the same may be able to be said about under-geared bm's/melees... but still range is superior to what a melee has to go through.

Beside those aoe stuns/cc skill you mentioned while they are useful... they're only REALLY useful if people are stupid enough to stand near each other, which most people are smart enough to keep their distance from others, the aoe range/effectiveness area of ROTP is so low it is extremely difficult to get off on more than one person at a time... most of the time it is anyways. Don't get me started on that pos purify proc... even if it does have it's weaknesses... it is OPED... as I have said before just because something has it's weaknesses it does NOT mean it isn't oped/let alone game breaking!

Again marrows ARE a double edged sword BEFORE true endgame gear for goodness sakes. << At least acknowledge that, instead of making it sound like they are so badass/useful. Besides what bm in their right mind would use altar marrow physical in mass pvp? Ergo that marrow is COMPLETELY useless for mass pvp!

Bah... I am not trying to say they're completely helpless all the time, but what they do have to go through compared to ANY other class make it completely unflattering to many bms. It makes it REAL hard to support on a budget without having to spend millions (hyperbole!) on apo/charms... or HAVING to stay near others which bms HAVE to do in order to stay alive/let others benefit from their suicidal run in.

I swear if I didn't like bm's the most/think bms had it the absolute worse of any other class in game, I would be content with them... ergo I wouldn't be jumping 'down' on anyone for acting like they're so useful. AGAIN I GET IT THEY GET FAR BETTER IN END GAME GEAR... I AM TALKING ABOUT EARLY END GAME GEAR, and THE SKILLS THEY HAVE TO USE TO ACTUALLY BE USEFUL REGARDLESS OF THEIR GEAR/CHOICE OF NOT GOING IN WITH A SQUAD. b:angry *smokes release from ears*

Anyways b:surrender ... I am so tired of feeling like I am "correcting" people who don't share my opinion. (EDIT:) I so have the feeling that quite a few of you are going to just brush this off as just another QQ by a nab bm... and thats fine do what you what... I am just tired of all the arguable mis-information being given out about bm's. Sure they are nice in end game gear... but most anything before that struggles significantly, especially when you look at what the other classes actually have to work with. (talking about same gear even... even when only in partial g16 gear... it's quite clear to me what each class has to work with... including bm's. *rages some more*

Still I do feel there is a reason (more than 1) why there has been so few bms in nw/so many bms going to a new class for nw/mass pvp.

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Ok I think it's time for me to go take a chill pill... I was definitely raging a bit there, sorry. :$ (EDIT: Ok I took 15 of them still not calm. *RAGES* ... I'll calm down soon enough. :P

Ehrm, my post was talking about how sins have far more pvp utility in terms of group pvp. I don't think your post has anything relating to what I was saying in that b:shocked.

I do think you're underestimating BM damage potential though, at least when you compare it to other physical melee classes.

As for marrows, they are a gain of 180% m. def with a loss of 30% p. def, for a net gain of 150% def. That's about as good as Demon Wizard Stone barrier. It actually gives you more survivability to magic than barbs, and actual tank class. So it's not as horrible as you're making it seem.

Physical marrow I agree is absolutely worthless in most cases.