When does the stun land?

Aeliah - Dreamweaver · October 2013

Hello all. I have an interesting question for you guys today.

It has come to my attention that there is some debate over when the status effect of a skill actually lands on the target.

So, when does the status effect of a skill land on the target?

The too-obvious answer is that 'it lands after the skill finishes'. But if you think about it a moment, the answer isn't that simple. After the skill's... channeling finishes? Casting? When the skill animation *appears* to contact the enemy? When does the debuff from a skill *actually* land on the enemy? When does the damage land?

First of all, why should you care? The reason I care is so that I know when to react to incoming skills. Any pvper who has ever used Fortify should be interested in knowing when they need to time fortify to block a stun. Anybody who has ever hit Absolute Domain (AD) would be interested to know precisely when the damage of a skill lands on you.

Take for example the bm skill 'Roar of the Pride' (shortened as 'Roar'). Roar has a 0.6s channel and a whopping 1.8s casting. It does an aoe stun, deals no damage. In total, it takes 0.6+1.8 = 2.4 seconds to fire off this skill. Now if I want to block this stun with my Fortify genie skill, I need to know when the stun debuff is actually going to land on my character. There are 3 possibilities:

1) the stun lands on me at the end of channel + casting (the moment the channeling/casting bar disappears from your screen); this occurs at the 0.6+1.8 = 2.4 second mark
2) somewhere in the middle of the casting; in other words, between 0.6s and 2.4 seconds
3) right at the end of channeling/beginning of casting; in other words, at 0.6s seconds

On a normal genie, Fortify gives a 3 second anti-stun. Given how short it is, I am very interested in knowing when I need to hit Fortify to block Roar's stun.

To find out, I got out a stopwatch and my alt 101 demon BM.

First, I tested how long the stun debuff appears to last on enemy.
Second, I tested when the stun debuff actually appears on enemy.
Thirdly, I timed the length of time from when the channeling/casting bar of Roar disappeared to the time when the stun debuff disappeared.

The results were quite interesting.

First, the stun debuff definitely appears to last for 6 seconds, as best as I can tell.
Secondly, the stun debuff appears to land between 0.2 - ~0.5 seconds after the channeling bar fills up (A confusing result, but keep reading!)
Thirdly, after the channeling/casting bar disappeared, I counted ~4.5 seconds until the stun debuff was gone from the target.

What to make of these results?

First, it seems clear that the stun lasts as long as it should.

Secondly, it seems obvious to me that the stun lands (or should land) right after the channeling of my skill ends. I know what you are thinking, then what about the up-to ~0.5s delay you observed? My best guess for that is simply 'ping'. With my initial testing, my ping was in the range of 300-400ms. The stun debuff appeared almost instantly after channeling bar filled when I did more testing at night, when my ping is only 150ms.

Thirdly, the time from when casting bar disappearing to the stun debuff disappearing is well under 6 seconds. This alone is proof that the stun is definitely *not* applied at the *end* of casting. Then I subtracted 6s stun - 4.5s stun after casting done to get 1.5s. 1.5s is very close to the length of casting for Roar (1.8s) and the difference is, again, likely due to ping.

'Very interesting, but what is the question'? Or 'get to the point already, why am I reading this?!!'

Good, good. My question is three-fold.

(a) Do you, taking similar careful time tests, observe the same results I did?
(b) Do you think that the damage/status effect of all skills are applied right right as casting starts?
(c) If no to (b), do you think that the status effects and damage of a skill land at different times, and that it may vary from skill to skill?

My hypothesis is this:

"For every skill that carries a status effect, the status effect lands right as the skill starts casting (the moment when the channeling bar has filled up), and the damage of the skill lands immediately after the status effect is applied."

The testing I did with the BM skill Roar is one example that supports my hypothesis. Other observations I have made that support this hypothesis include:

1) Archer stun: Running sideways, I wait for an archer to stun me, then compare when I stopped moving to when I see the animation for the stun. Invariably, I stop moving *then* the yellow ball of archer's Stunning Arrow collides with my character.

2) Killing mobs: Hit mob with an attack like 'Wield Thunder' which has no status debuff, and the mob dies on the spot without ever turning towards me. However, when I use a skill like 'Great Cyclone' which applies a slow debuff to the target, the mob starts to run towards me, before dying a moment later. Or, when I apply my damage-over-time (dot) skill 'Thunderball', the mob moves a couple steps then plops over dead. The dot debuff is visible for a moment before the mob dies. Thunderball has some initial damage, and then some dot damage; clearly the dot (which is a debuff) is getting applied first.

From this I argue that the status debuff must get applied before the damage, or else, how could a one-shot mob move before dying? However, I've never seen or heard of the status effect of a skill landing but not its damage, so my guess is that the damage is applied nearly instantly after the status effect.

3) Seeker's 'Gemini Slash' skill. Any pvper who has fought against a nastily hard-hitting seeker should be able to attest to this phenomenon. A seeker does their -channeling skill Blade Affinity then fires off a Gemini Slash. You fall over dead, then up to 1-2 seconds later you see the animation of the critical hit Gemini slash (probably accompanied by an orange glow for zerk) pop up over your head. Now tell me, do you think it is probable that you fell over dead before the skill landed on you? Lol! Gemini slash has a whopping 2s cast time. The 'die-then-see-the-skill-animation' is easily explained if we assume that the damage of the skill actually hit you as soon as the skill's channeling finished (a fraction of a second, a opposed to a fraction of a second + 2s if the damage landed at the end of casting).

Do you think I'm right? Wrong? I'm right, but that this doesn't apply to all skills? I'm interested to see what you've observed. If you do testing yourself, try to pick skills with long casting times, and preferably do your testing when your ping is as low as possible, to get accurate results.

Aeliah

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver · October 2013

A debuff lands after channel is done, not after "cast" is done, always has been that way. There's no need to write a novel about it.

Prime example would be HF, every noodle who ever even remotely watched the animation (that occurs during casting) noticed that HF (or well curse if you want to be exact about the names) was already on the target during "casting". Same with subsea, etc.

People really never noticed this? f:sweat

Aeliah - Dreamweaver · October 2013

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver wrote: »

A debuff lands after channel is done, not after "cast" is done, always has been that way. There's no need to write a novel about it.

Prime example would be HF, every noodle who ever even remotely watched the animation (that occurs during casting) noticed that HF was already on the target during "casting". Same with subsea, etc.

People really never noticed this? f:sweat

I thought it was obvious too, until I ran into people in the ARCHER forums (of all places) who flat out told me 'its near the end of casting'. A quick survey of people on my server quickly found others who were similarly misinformed, or who had simply never thought about the issue at all. This prompted me to do more testing, and to create this post about it. I think something this important should be made quite clear, and if *I'm* wrong I want to find out.

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver · October 2013

Well to put in perspective things like ping (ms) and stuff need to be taking into account as well so it could be that it lands somewhere in the time during the cast, as far as I can tell by just looking at the debuff icons and the casting animation the debuff is already on before the animation is done...

Aeliah - Dreamweaver · October 2013

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Well to put in perspective things like ping (ms) and stuff need to be taking into account as well so it could be that it lands somewhere in the time during the cast, as far as I can tell by just looking at the debuff icons and the casting animation the debuff is already on before the animation is done...

Well yeah, of course. To be more exact, the debuff IS applied at the end of channeling; we only SEE it applied depending on our ping (if 300ms, then 300ms later we should see the stun debuff, to use my earlier example).

Edit: I can see why archers might mess this up. Nearly all of their offensive skills have a 0.6 or 0.8s cast time. To them it would appear that, given a normal ping of say 300ms, the status effect does land somewhere in the middle/end of the cast time. However as I was able to find out, the longer the cast time of a skill, the more it becomes apparent that the status effect of the skill is nearer the beginning of cast time than the end... with that information it becomes clear that the status debuff gets applied after channeling finishes.

Still they should know better!

The following two skills are eloquent examples of 'status effect at beginning of casting':

Wings of grace (do you get the anti-stun at beginning or end of casting... obviously beginning, as Asterelle even states, you only get 12 seconds of useable anti-stun from Wings of Grace because 3 seconds get used in the casting process).

Wings of protection (do you get evasion buff at beginning or end of cast... beginning again).

;D

Sevchenko - Dreamweaver · October 2013

User presses the skill button
-> Skill starts channeling phase
-> Skill ends channeling phase (Effects and damage apply here).
-> Skill starts Cast phase
-> Cast phase ends (Character comes back to 'controlable' state). b:bye

For vortex and other 'Zhen' skills:
User presses the skill button
-> Skill starts Channeling phase.
-> Skill ends channeling phase (First interation happens here.)
-> Skill starts iteration loop. (wait n seconds then apply iteration effect (repeat))
Until user cancels the effect of the skill.

As for archer's stunning arrow, the projectile itself is only 'thrown' in the End channel phase, at the same time when the stun actually happens. So you have the projectile animation to always delay, but that's game mechanics, otherwise archers would have a delay on their damage and skill effects, increasing depending on how far they're from targets.

Notice that chi consumption also happens by Channeling phase end.
Half the MP cost happens on the Start Channel phase and the other half at the End channel phase.
Barbs Armageddon also claims it's cost by End Channel Phase.

Aeliah - Dreamweaver · October 2013

Sevchenko - Dreamweaver wrote: »

User presses the skill button
-> Skill starts channeling phase
-> Skill ends channeling phase (Effects and damage apply here)
-> Skill starts Cast phase
-> Cast phase ends (Character comes back to 'controlable' state). b:bye

For vortex and other 'Zhen' skills:
User presses the skill button
-> Skill starts Channeling phase.
-> Skill ends channeling phase (First interation happens here.)
-> Skill starts iteration loop. (wait n seconds then apply iteration effect (repeat))
Until user cancels the effect of the skill.

Notice that chi consumption also happens by Channeling phase end.
Half the MP cost happens on the Start Channel phase and the other half at the End channel phase.

So beautifully stated, that I'll even ignore the spelling error! This is the essence of it folks.

SHIMBERLY - Heavens Tear · October 2013

I was going to read but I got bored

Azura - Lost City · October 2013

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

"For every skill that carries a status effect, the status effect lands right as the skill starts casting (the moment when the channeling bar has filled up), and the damage of the skill lands immediately after the status effect is applied."

Yeah, I agree with those results. I hadn't really payed attention to this but I had always seen that when a skill has an effect the effect applies first, and then the damage comes out. I've seen that effects appear after channeling is done and the damage appears after casting is done.

So, if you want to fortify a roar, you have to press fortify before the bm finishes channeling. Since, that's very fast, you have to predict actually when a bm wants to do this.

Aeliah - Dreamweaver · October 2013

Azura - Lost City wrote: »

Yeah, I agree with those results. I hadn't really payed attention to this but I had always seen that when a skill has an effect the effect applies first, and then the damage comes out. I've seen that effects appear after channeling is done and the damage appears after casting is done.

So, if you want to fortify a roar, you have to press fortify before the bm finishes channeling. Since, that's very fast, you have to predict actually when a bm wants to do this.

If we assume that 'status effects lands at end of channeling, and damage lands at end of casting', then we get to this question: Is there ever a case where the status effect of a skill can hit you, but not the damage of the skill?

For example, my thunderball attack has a 1.2s cast. That is quite a bit of time to sneak an absolute domain/ironguard into. If, as you said, the damage actually hits the person at the end of cast, why don't we ever see status effect without damage? As in, not 'it is rare', but 'it never happens, period'?

My theory is that the damage get applied immediately afterwards, always. However, there are two possibilities to explain why the damage we see over our heads is sometimes delayed:

1) there is simply a mismatch, and thats all there is to it (in other words, when you get hit by Gemini Slash, the damage lands at end of channeling as expected, but the number popping up over your head is randomly delayed... maybe lag, maybe certain skills just work that way by design or by accident)

Possibly, status effect & damage are applied at end of channeling, but the damage is DISPLAYED at the end of casting, just as an aesthetic touch (when we cast a skill, we want to see that the damage appears when the animation of the attack reaches our opponent, not before we've even finished casting the skill, which could look decidedly odd on skills with long cast times).

2) the hit lands on you, and then the game prevents the damage from applying and displaying on you until the casting completes (eg, at end of Gemini Slash channeling, the game registers you've been hit, but doesn't actually apply the damage until 2 seconds later, at which time it also displays the damage over your head)

I tend to think #1 is probably correct, because it allows for the 'you died then 2 seconds later see the damage from Gemini Slash' phenomenon. If the damage is genuinely applied at the end of cast, you would never die and then see the damage that killed you; you would die at the SAME time as the damage is shown above your head.

Tests with my Tempest skill, which has a 1.5s cast, also support #1. Used on a mob, the mob always flops over dead well before I get to see the damage I did on it. Clearly, the damage applied to the mob BEFORE I get to see the damage displayed.

Azura - Lost City · October 2013

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Is there ever a case where the status effect of a skill can hit you, but not the damage of the skill?

I don't think so. Examples: If an archer's stun arrow misses, you don't get stunned. If a bm's dragons misses, you don't get the amp.

Jarkhen - Archosaur · October 2013

Azura - Lost City wrote: »

I don't think so. Examples: If an archer's stun arrow misses, you don't get stunned. If a bm's dragons misses, you don't get the amp.

^ this. Status effects that are on damaging skills have to be "carried in" by that damage, which means they don't take effect if the skill misses or if it's resisted. If a psy uses will on me, and I use Stunning Arrow without Blazing Arrow up, the stun doesn't work because the skill is resisted. If I do have Blazing Arrow up, the stun works because some (small) amount of damage is done by the added fire damage.

FaceRolI - Sanctuary · October 2013

Skills take effect once channeling finishes and before casting completes.

Exception would be projectile based skills (pyro/dpyro). Once the channeling completes damage will be dealt regardless of AD/Apo, however the damage doesnt seem to be counted until the projectile "hits."

Scenario:
Enemy has just a tiny bit of HP left, pyrogram channeled, enemy is holypathing away pyrogram animation is chasing them, enemy's charm ticks, pyrogram hits, enemy lives.

So while the game "counts" that the pyrogram has finished channeling and will do damage, the damage is not done until later.

Another well known example that illustrates this is when a wizard has sutra up.
1. Find mob you will 1 shot
2. sutra
3. cast pyro/dpyro
4. cast another skill

both skills willl "hit" however, if you flip steps 4 and 3 it wont work so long as your new step 3 isnt pyr/dpyro. you actually dont need sutra up.. just fast chan (64% was enough for me)

relevant?

I still dont have sage dpyro or i'd test status effects on projectile. Also I dont see similar results as OP, when I use gush/glacial/sandstorm/crown of flames mobs die instantly w/o running towards me first, but I do see the status effect on their bar.

Aeliah - Dreamweaver · October 2013

Interesting, interesting... so some skills may not follow the general trend... I wonder if there is a way to sort out the various PWI class skills so that, by reading the description, you'd be able to tell how its damage will be applied without needing to test it out? Or is it always going to be a 'you've gotta test it to know how it works' sorta thing.

I've got two skills that work the same way your pyrogram does, and I figured out a way to reliably duplicate the 'getting two hits on a 1-shot mob' stunt.

I call it the walk-into-it trick.

-get outside of your max attack range to mob
-press plume shot and hold it down
-you enter range and plume shot fires off after a small delay
-mob still alive, you see the plume shot animation heading towards the mob
-another plume shot fires off
-both plume shots appears to hit the mob at the same time
-mob dies

With high enough channeling (well, like I can easily get -95%, or even -98%... I picked up a -15% channeling neck recently lol) you can still hit a one-shot mob twice, but the two attacks land distinctly and separately, they don't appear to land at same time (and its harder to get the 2nd shot in).

(BTW, I did test to see if the damage is *actually* landing at the same time, and regretably, it isn't. I can't charm bypass anybody with 2 hits combining into one; if I hit somebody with 10k for two 6k hits that appear to land at same time, they don't fall over dead; the first hit ticks their charm and the second hit takes them down to 4k hp. This seems to indicate again damage display is an unreliable indicator of when the damage actually hits the opponent.)

Basically it would seem you are right. Some spells don't work like the rest. So to clarify our working theory:

1) Normal skills
-status debuff applied at end of channel
-damage applied instantly afterwards
-mob dies
-casting animation completes and damage is displayed over mob

2) Projectile-type skills
-to my knowledge, debuff (if any) applied at end of channeling
-casting animation completes
-damage hits mobs and damage is displayed, sometimes with a lagtime longer than the cast of the skill (in the case of razor feathers, greater than 1.5 seconds!)
-mob dies

Can anybody else suggest skills that may behave like projectiles? I haven't tested yet, but I'd guess a number of archer skills including take aim qualify... possibly nature's vengeance from mystics, or venemous scarab from venomancers. Do any melee classes have 'projectile-type' skills?

Edit: as far as the video... without knowing how many times the footage is slowed, its hard to say precisely when the the bm stun arrived at your end to be blocked by that spark (incidentally, I rediscovered that spark burst has no immune to damage icon, despite giving a 1s immunity lol). How many tries did it take to get the timing I wonder, lol. Its tough to block anything with a single spark. In any case, the stun definitely isn't arriving at the *end* of the animation... its tough to tell if its at the beginning of cast from this video...I wonder, if your ping is a lot lower than the person sending the stun your way, if you react to the channeling with a single spark, will your spark register with the server faster than his stun can travel from his computer to the server?

Fae_Harpy - Archosaur · October 2013

Add to this, weapon proc debuffs also land before the actual hit does. I've noticed this when killing mobs. My distract will proc on mobs I one shot, and it is taking effect before the damage. I normally sit at about 100-120 ping and I can clearly see the distract animation show up on the mob beforehand.

Aeliah - Dreamweaver · October 2013

Fae_Harpy - Archosaur wrote: »

Add to this, weapon proc debuffs also land before the actual hit does. I've noticed this when killing mobs. My distract will proc on mobs I one shot, and it is taking effect before the damage. I normally sit at about 100-120 ping and I can clearly see the distract animation show up on the mob beforehand.

I've wondered this as well, and I think I know the answer, but, when an archer purges, does the purge take effect before the hit that supplied the purge, or after? Auto attacks aren't exactly spells, but, as Fae has noted, I still think that status effects land before the damage of the hit that delivered the status. Even though the purge animation is really slow and appears to land later, the hit that delivers the purge always hits hard. EG, lightning strike does normally 6k non-crit on my sin. A lightning strike purge does 9k noncrit.

Man - Raging Tide · October 2013

Hi Friends

What understand is

Damge / Stun / Status effect is calculated after channel, and it goes into effect after cast time.

So in short cast is a small delay for what is already coming down the pipe ~ with no way to prevent it.

FaceRolI - Sanctuary · October 2013

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

(BTW, I did test to see if the damage is *actually* landing at the same time, and regretably, it isn't. I can't charm bypass anybody with 2 hits combining into one; if I hit somebody with 10k for two 6k hits that appear to land at same time, they don't fall over dead; the first hit ticks their charm and the second hit takes them down to 4k hp. This seems to indicate again damage display is an unreliable indicator of when the damage actually hits the opponent.)

you can use 2 hits as 1 hit to bypass for skill + auto atk combo atleast. For physical attacks aps clearly bypassed charm, same w/ QS when I made that vid I was able to repeat w/ some skills but not all and not always.(i dont remember which was awhile ago, Demon QS always worked though if it was QS (proc) then auto atk that comes right after skill). ofc these are auto attacks, I would think you could do that same w/ projectile skills, will test later. pretty sure its more related to charm tick timing then skills/casting, ofc have to be fast.

vid is slowed down to 1/4 speed. took 2 tries. When I played archer I regularly used 1 spark to block cleric sog as WoG was too slow. for things like purge I use 2 spark cause im noob and cant time it accuratetly enough w/ 1 spark. for SoG as soon as you see cleric raise arm you hit 1 spark.

the walk in method you posted is used by wizards but w/ DS and for a different purpose. hit skill before DS, target out of range, ds in (target now in range) skill starts channeling, this just helps minimize time b/w ds and casting.

Leni - Raging Tide · October 2013

With a skill that carries a debuff like sage D.pyro or Snare the status debuff icon apears right after channeling but the damage is not affected by it, I tested this like 2 years ago when i got my d.pyro: just go to a mob you cant one-shot, unequip weap and hit it with d.pyro 2 times in a row, the second hit will be harder.

After reading this thread i got curious and went to do more testing, repeated the experiment with sage d.pyro with the same results but now i tested sage snare too. It has 2.5s chan, 1.8s cast and 2 effects: slow for 6s and debuff for 15s. Both status effects appeared on the mob after chan and i started counting time with a stopwatch, then the skill animation was flying towards the mob and it hit it. As expected, slow effect ended 6s and debuff ended 15s after chan completed, not after the skill actualy hit the mob.

So here are my conclusions:
1. User hits the hotkey
2. Toon starts channeling (this is the phase that can be interrupted)
3. Chan completes
4. Game calculates dmg
5. Debuffs are applied, their timer starts counting and show on enemy HP bar thingie
6. Skill enters cooldown
7. Toon does the casting animation
8. Toon finishes casting animation and is controlable

Note that steps 4-6 happen all at the same time, but in that order.

Another example is Force of Will, it silences for 5s, but silence starts at the end of chan so by the end of cast (2s) you only have 3s worth of silence left to do something to them xD

Im really interested on what FaceRoll mentioned about charm ticking while the proyectile is chasing you when you're almost dead and you survive. It's happened to me LOOOOTS of times that im running away from something, and hit AD or IG and you can actualy see the animation and the pot gets consumed and enters cooldown but i still die

So if you can create some delay from certain death by running away waiting for charm to tick.... its worth trying xD

Sassy/ss_ - Sanctuary113 · October 2013

Channel Start> Channel End> Effect/Proc> Damage(most skills)[damage is guranteed at this point for ALL skills]> Cast Start> Cast End> DONE (Damage APPLIED for projectiles like pyro/take aim at this point but previously guranteed to do damage)

IDK if anyone has said this, but I just read first few. Yea after channel effects apply. The damage is calculated after the effect aka Deadly Shot procs purge then the damage is calculated with purge. The only exceptions I've noticed is on projectiles when i use pyro/d pyro the damage won't show until projectile hits, but if people AD it still seems to do damage.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · October 2013

This thread reminds me of the old channel-canceling debates and whether it was a glitch or not *reminisces*. Alot of research was being done then to find out when buffs are applied (or debuffs) and when skills land. I think they changed some of the skill dynamics to prevent CCing.

Things like O Sunder and O Glacial Spike both apply the self crit buff prior to the skill landing but now they apply it after the channeling. Debuffs, like O Wield Thunder are applied after the skill lands. I can't say if debuffs have always been like this or if they changed it when they messed skills up to prevent CCing.

SinfulLia - Archosaur · October 2013

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver wrote: »

A debuff lands after channel is done, not after "cast" is done, always has been that way. There's no need to write a novel about it.

Prime example would be HF, every noodle who ever even remotely watched the animation (that occurs during casting) noticed that HF (or well curse if you want to be exact about the names) was already on the target during "casting". Same with subsea, etc.

People really never noticed this? f:sweat

I lol'd

Sevchenko - Dreamweaver · October 2013

I'd conclude that Skill effects apply as soon as the skill finishes casting, while their damage apply as soon ias the skill actually hits the target.
But as an assassin, you can also land 2 skills before a mob actually die, so yeah.

Another intriguing fact is that Toxic Torrent hit damage delays a lot to land.

Aeliah - Dreamweaver · October 2013

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

This thread reminds me of the old channel-canceling debates and whether it was a glitch or not *reminisces*. Alot of research was being done then to find out when buffs are applied (or debuffs) and when skills land. I think they changed some of the skill dynamics to prevent CCing.

Things like O Sunder and O Glacial Spike both apply the self crit buff prior to the skill landing but now they apply it after the channeling. Debuffs, like O Wield Thunder are applied after the skill lands. I can't say if debuffs have always been like this or if they changed it when they messed skills up to prevent CCing.

It is a bit more confusing than you'd think. So the debuff lands before the damage of an attack arrives, but the debuff isn't necessarily applied to the damage of that attack. Then you get to debuffs that don't affect damage, and they seem to kick in as soon as channel ends (slows, stuns, etc).

Asterelle - Sanctuary · November 2013

Some debuffs apply before their damage such as the sharptooth debuff. Most of them apply after so the skill doesn't benefit from its own debuff (like thunder shock and purge). Damage is really at the end of channeling but you can't really see the result until after the casting / projectile animation finishes. This is why you always see damage in a damage log after the log says you died.

Not all attacks have projectiles though but if it does the target can move around during the projectile animation and take actions even though they can no longer avoid the incoming damage.

A double KO is possible if one person finishes channeling their attack during the projectile animation of the other.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · November 2013

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

It is a bit more confusing than you'd think. So the debuff lands before the damage of an attack arrives, but the debuff isn't necessarily applied to the damage of that attack. Then you get to debuffs that don't affect damage, and they seem to kick in as soon as channel ends (slows, stuns, etc).

Eh, I did most my research 3 years ago and at this point have accepted it as simply "after" channeling+damage but prior to cast. I think some of the .1-.4 sec delay you were experiencing was a change in game dynamic to apply the damage, then apply the buffs as a two step process rather than one.

When does the stun land?

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