Another update where we got pooed on...

Adroit - Lost City · October 2013

I do tend to think archers could use a little boost defensively. I think of it kinda similar to how clerics were before the morai update.. they were fantastic in support/group pvp but would get poo'd on in 1v1s. They just had very little offensive potential.. and tbh I thought the dev's solution to that problem was very elegant. The UV form to me is awesome, because it does not really change their support ability/role, but allows the cleric to give up some of the support skills to gain some offensive ability when they want it.

In large pvp, archers are fine imo.. but smaller pvp/1v1s archers are just helpless. In smaller pvp they cannot hide behind their team (especially 1v1s), and just get wrecked. I think the hands down squishiest class is overdue for some kind of boost (that would hopefully help in smaller pvp but not make any difference in large pvp). Just my 2 cents

Asterelle - Sanctuary · October 2013

Small update this week:
http://www.diffchecker.com/aic502ng

The only changes were to Deadly Frost and Vicious. The deadly frost update looks promising. I think it says that it does base + 750% weapon total damage which sounds good. I still have my doubts since that is like the damage of 2 normal arrows for me and according to qui it will be spread out over "5 waves" in 2.5 seconds. Ehh really in that time you could fire 2 arrows anyway... I can't really tell but it has a chance of being usable.

Also it's still 2 sparks with a 3 minute cooldown which is kinda meh. That's still probably too much overlap with barrage. Each wave of barrage is around 1000% weapon damage for most people. What's going to make or break it is the shape of its aoe (that's what made whisper shot lousy).

Vicious arrow is now base damage + 5266 with 600% wood damage over 9s which is still way too low to be usable in pve or pvp (dot damage can't crit, skill can't purge).

Jarkhen - Archosaur · October 2013

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Small update this week:
http://www.diffchecker.com/aic502ng

The only changes were to Deadly Frost and Vicious. The deadly frost update looks promising. I think it says that it does base + 750% weapon total damage which sounds good. I still have my doubts since that is like the damage of 2 normal arrows for me and according to qui it will be spread out over "5 waves" in 2.5 seconds. Ehh really in that time you could fire 2 arrows anyway... I can't really tell but it has a chance of being usable.

Makes sense going back and looking at it... the translation says "each attack" costs 1 unit of ammo and "each attack" has a chance of triggering weapon procs...

...which is great except our proc won't go off anyway because of the debuff on the skill.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver · October 2013

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

I do tend to think archers could use a little boost defensively. I think of it kinda similar to how clerics were before the morai update.. they were fantastic in support/group pvp but would get poo'd on in 1v1s. They just had very little offensive potential.. and tbh I thought the dev's solution to that problem was very elegant. The UV form to me is awesome, because it does not really change their support ability/role, but allows the cleric to give up some of the support skills to gain some offensive ability when they want it.

In large pvp, archers are fine imo.. but smaller pvp/1v1s archers are just helpless. In smaller pvp they cannot hide behind their team (especially 1v1s), and just get wrecked. I think the hands down squishiest class is overdue for some kind of boost (that would hopefully help in smaller pvp but not make any difference in large pvp). Just my 2 cents

I'm sorry but the UV skills made cleric's a little bit TOO powerful for my taste. 40sec sleep with debuffs and you still slept is a bit too much. Plus the amount of controll skills clerics got is insane.

As for archers, you may feel they deserve a defensive boost, and that's fine. But to do so the dev's would need to nerf their offense in order to do so. Can't have it both ways.

_blood_rain - Sanctuary · October 2013

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

wall of text

Your Heartz example just proves how messed up your perception is. You are taking the fact that a Deity sharded archer was able to kill you 3 sparked out of stealth w/ purge and crit after you ****ed yourself so bad that you were pretty much out of options as evidence to your point that archers are completely balanced.

You constantlyy bring up this purge thing as if it makes archers special, as if an archer's presence is what determines if you will get purged or not. EVERY CLASS CAN PURGE. EVERY class can make better use of a purged opponent opportunistically. All an archer can do consistently is keep hitting and hope they dont proc puri/ all your defensive options are in CD.

By the time I reached your end quote I started to think that maybe u aren't immune to common sense, maybe you are instead blinded by some sort of weird resentment against archers.

Astraelys - Raging Tide · October 2013

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

The only changes were to Deadly Frost and Vicious. The deadly frost update looks promising. I think it says that it does base + 750% weapon total damage which sounds good. I still have my doubts since that is like the damage of 2 normal arrows for me and according to qui it will be spread out over "5 waves" in 2.5 seconds.

A small close range aoe?

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Vicious arrow is now base damage + 5266 with 600% wood damage over 9s which is still way too low to be usable in pve or pvp (dot damage can't crit, skill can't purge).

One question for sage archer still have Mana Drain Efect?

PD:Thanks for keeping us updated

Eoria - Harshlands · October 2013

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

I do tend to think archers could use a little boost defensively. I think of it kinda similar to how clerics were before the morai update.. they were fantastic in support/group pvp but would get poo'd on in 1v1s. They just had very little offensive potential.. and tbh I thought the dev's solution to that problem was very elegant. The UV form to me is awesome, because it does not really change their support ability/role, but allows the cleric to give up some of the support skills to gain some offensive ability when they want it.

In large pvp, archers are fine imo.. but smaller pvp/1v1s archers are just helpless. In smaller pvp they cannot hide behind their team (especially 1v1s), and just get wrecked. I think the hands down squishiest class is overdue for some kind of boost (that would hopefully help in smaller pvp but not make any difference in large pvp). Just my 2 cents

I think this is basically what I agree with. Archers really do need some sort of boost, but devs do need to be careful about overbuffing them.

@DionDagger - Clerics are magic sins in 1v1. Always have been. Morai skills just let them be more effective at it. You basically just have to make a genie that solely counters clerics.

Burnout - Harshlands · October 2013

_blood_rain - Sanctuary wrote: »

Your Heartz example just proves how messed up your perception is. You are taking the fact that a Deity sharded archer was able to kill you 3 sparked out of stealth w/ purge and crit after you ****ed yourself so bad that you were pretty much out of options as evidence to your point that archers are completely balanced.

You constantlyy bring up this purge thing as if it makes archers special, as if an archer's presence is what determines if you will get purged or not. EVERY CLASS CAN PURGE. EVERY class can make better use of a purged opponent opportunistically. All an archer can do consistently is keep hitting and hope they dont proc puri/ all your defensive options are in CD.

By the time I reached your end quote I started to think that maybe u aren't immune to common sense, maybe you are instead blinded by some sort of weird resentment against archers.

I think her post was talking more about how her gear is so OP that she doesn't lose to any other person 1v1 on her server, except deity archers. I mean, I used to be one of the most geared mystics on my server and she has almost the same p. def unbuffed as I do BUFFED, which is just ridiculous.

Also, I don't know of any other class that can take advantage of a purge like archers. I've been purged by melees before (and it took ~5 mins on average, compared to an archer who does it in 30s) but I've always just been able to either Holy path away or had enough time to CC them and rebuff myself. TBH Purge weaponry just isn't viable in pvp for melee vs casters most of the time unless you're a BM doing AOE stuns.

RankNine - Momaganon · October 2013

i think we should stop this endless discusion and focus on the topic now.
or shall we archers start invading the sins forums and complain about tidal protection?
or the seeker forums and QPQ? or wizard forums and spark combo?

HideYoHubby - Archosaur · October 2013

RankNine - Momaganon wrote: »

i think we should stop this endless discusion and focus on the topic now.
or shall we archers start invading the sins forums and complain about tidal protection?
or the seeker forums and QPQ? or wizard forums and spark combo?

The tidal convo was under PvP last I checked, remember your pitchforks and torches!

Slivaf - Dreamweaver · October 2013

Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »

I think her post was talking more about how her gear is so OP that she doesn't lose to any other person 1v1 on her server, except deity archers. I mean, I used to be one of the most geared mystics on my server and she has almost the same p. def unbuffed as I do BUFFED, which is just ridiculous.

Also, I don't know of any other class that can take advantage of a purge like archers. I've been purged by melees before (and it took ~5 mins on average, compared to an archer who does it in 30s) but I've always just been able to either Holy path away or had enough time to CC them and rebuff myself. TBH Purge weaponry just isn't viable in pvp for melee vs casters most of the time unless you're a BM doing AOE stuns.

Blademasters only have one aoe stun that doesn't even do damage (which would NOT activate the purge proc)... yes they have a couple of aoe CC skills, (7 to be a bit more exact, but only 1 has the guarenteed chance to stun, most of them even take chi... most being the keyword... Aka not all!) but only 1 aoe stun. (until lvl 11 DEMON MSS/Meteor Rush (not a technical aoe... but it can hit more than 1 person at a time... but really what bms uses MSS /MR that often in PVP? A few do, even I use it once in a while... but I so rarely have the chance to do it for various reasons, and neither is a guaranteed stun)

The reason why purge is so much more effective on a archer/pretty much any other ranged/magic class is something that I have brought up quite a few times, and yet everyone keeps ignoring it like it's a complete non factor... the fact that they are ranged/magic, oh and they/you all hit way harder than any melee. (Sure purge helps melees but aye it isn't as viable as blood tried to make it out to be.) Especially not in mass pvp, when your having to deal with a lot more than just one person.

I get it it isn't the best factor/the best triumph card or w/e you want to call it, but still it is an advantage over melees.

EDIT: Let me put it this way.

If purge activates for an archer/any other ranged/magic class in game, they have the opportunities to hit ppl without their opponents knowing where the purge comes from, allowing them a far better chance of utilizing that purge, and killing their opponent before they even have a chance to react. (You would have the chance if a melee use a purge weapon.... unless they can do some serious stunlocking.) EDIT: I Am aware that the genie skill is 'ranged' BUT... if a melee used the purge, and it did proc for them... their opponent could easily be gone before they even get a hit in.... it costs chi, etc to close distances... though aye it is more than doable... imho I think it's easier for a ranged/magic class to benefit from it a LOT more. (They even hit way harder)

Also one more thing, enough with the name calling/insults... just because you disagree with someones 'stance' in an argument it does NOT meant they are wrong. (We are all blind to logic... especially when it comes to things we are passionate about.)

Eoria - Harshlands · October 2013

The real thing with purge on melee is that your purge weapons don't come with an added 60+ atk levels on them. So you know...I don't have to worry about dying at all when you're just wacking at me with it. Archers actually hurt regardless of whether they purge or not.

_blood_rain - Sanctuary · October 2013

Bah, what I meant was that every class has access to more complex/advanced offensive combo ability. Archers just propel sticks at stuff, w/ slight variance in added effect of stick, not that I'm complaining about that, I was just making a point about archers not being the sole providers of purge like Aeliah makes it sound.

BUt I agree w/ Rank Nine

Quilue - Sanctuary · October 2013

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Small update this week:
http://www.diffchecker.com/aic502ng

The only changes were to Deadly Frost and Vicious. The deadly frost update looks promising. I think it says that it does base + 750% weapon total damage which sounds good. I still have my doubts since that is like the damage of 2 normal arrows for me and according to qui it will be spread out over "5 waves" in 2.5 seconds. Ehh really in that time you could fire 2 arrows anyway... I can't really tell but it has a chance of being usable.

Also it's still 2 sparks with a 3 minute cooldown which is kinda meh. That's still probably too much overlap with barrage. Each wave of barrage is around 1000% weapon damage for most people. What's going to make or break it is the shape of its aoe (that's what made whisper shot lousy).

Vicious arrow is now base damage + 5266 with 600% wood damage over 9s which is still way too low to be usable in pve or pvp (dot damage can't crit, skill can't purge).

Yeah it's 5 rounds of scattershot in a fan shape, base + 750% total rather than 50% base each wave like before. This is barely better than a glorified Take Aim. Better use Barrage for most situations.

Bhavyy - Raging Tide · October 2013

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Bhavvy is apparently under the impression that 'being able to purge from 32meters away + having highest ranged aps and dps' does not endow archers with any offensive advantage. He uses this to argue that archers need more defense 'because an archer's offense isn't really all that great'. Capital BS, lol.
[/SIZE]

Again - this is **** you pulled from your own hat. I didnt say it wasnt an advantage. I did say it isnt that great, which it isnt. You're really good at twisting what people say and manipulating facts by missing key things out about skills to make it look like you have a point. I simply just don't care for this. I mean here you have a bunch of far more experienced archers telling you something and you're literally too far up your own **** to admit you're wrong or even consider the fact that you're wrong.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur · October 2013

Bhavyy - Raging Tide wrote: »

I mean here you have a bunch of far more experienced archers telling you something and you're literally too far up your own **** to admit you're wrong or even consider the fact that you're wrong.

Its a classic case of ego on internet. Its not bout arguing for facts, its bout arguing bout being right, even if you arent. Admitting being wrong can be a hard thing for some people. There really seems to be no other agenda than being "right" and showing "those dumb archers" they know nothing.

Ps. Doesnt the fact he thinks archer dots are the bomb pretty much debunk everything he says?

Desdi - Sanctuary · October 2013

I was following this thread out of curiosity (as I did with every other update-related thread for other classes) and I guess I'll give my two cents before I go back to simply lurking around the thread.

On the purge note, assuming we're only talking about endgame gear or generally r9r3 situation, it's most effective for venomancers and archers as they don't need to change their weapon and can take advantage of this quickly. This is compared to the other purge methods that are available to other classes. Even if a blademaster, for instance, switches to a purge pole and manages to purge me, I'll most definitely have enough time to react before I see a possible hard attack coming my way.

In general, I also believe archers would deserve an update in terms of defence but something that's reasonable and not mess things up. Most classes give up on something in order to gain something; clerics give up on their support side for more offence, the untamed switch forms according to what they need etc. that would be a fair trade to me.

Also, I've always agreed and supported that they should do something about the archer buff being overwritten by any form of speed buff (genie, apoth, self-buff). I don't know much about the skill themselves so I'm not commenting on that.

Enough with the arguments *goes back to lurking*.

kenpachikensai · October 2013

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

Also, I've always agreed and supported that they should do something about the archer buff being overwritten by any form of speed buff (genie, apoth, self-buff). I don't know much about the skill themselves so I'm not commenting on that.

This. Our buff definitely need to be reworked before anything else, imo.

Fae_Harpy - Archosaur · October 2013

I've read through at least half this thread and keep seeing the same thing over and over again, so I thought I would point this out to some people:

PURGE IS NOT AN ARCHER SKILL

It's a proc on a weapon, so to use that for the base of argument as to why archers are so OP makes your argument invalid. Take the proc bow out of the equation and what do you have. Archers are not venos, we did not get purge added to our skill list. With the exception of a few level 100 skills I have all mine learned and maxed out. If purge had suddenly been added to our skill list, I would have noticed.

Now about actual archer SKILLS, with these new ones are they just upgrades or will our skills automatically change. Personally I would prefer to keep some of the skills I already have, then have them changed to the new ones.

Mayfly - Dreamweaver · October 2013

Upgrades. There's items you have to gather before you can get the skill books, and there's a requirement of having learned level 11 skills before learning the new ones (at least, as far as I know; I haven't looked over the archer skills.)

Aesthor - Heavens Tear · October 2013

RankNine - Momaganon wrote: »

i think we should stop this endless discusion and focus on the topic now.
or shall we archers start invading the sins forums and complain about tidal protection?
or the seeker forums and QPQ? or wizard forums and spark combo?

We should invade cleric forums and complain about Aeliah's walls of text being too OP. I can't seem to read them without my head hurting from the overabundance of bias and ego. The lack of logic stuns me for longer than a BM roar. The only saving grace to this OPness is you'd actually have to read the wall of text to suffer from it.

As for being on topic, I'm not too surprised archers got shafted. The problem is the players without end-game gear get wrecked primarily by stray arrows. It doesn't matter if a wizard can hit them for 50K if a simple 6K hit can kill them, and so they go on the forums complaining about how OP archers are. They of course don't realize how squishy those archers are because they don't survive long enough to even try, or how bad our CC is because no one needs to CC them to kill them.

Bhavyy - Raging Tide · October 2013

Aesthor - Heavens Tear wrote: »

As for being on topic, I'm not too surprised archers got shafted. The problem is the players without end-game gear get wrecked primarily by stray arrows. It doesn't matter if a wizard can hit them for 50K if a simple 6K hit can kill them, and so they go on the forums complaining about how OP archers are. They of course don't realize how squishy those archers are because they don't survive long enough to even try, or how bad our CC is because no one needs to CC them to kill them.

Nailed it. The only reason archers are "feared" as someone said earlier is because of how many people don't have end game gear.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver · October 2013

Aesthor - Heavens Tear wrote: »

We should invade cleric forums and complain about Aeliah's walls of text being too OP. I can't seem to read them without my head hurting from the overabundance of bias and ego. The lack of logic stuns me for longer than a BM roar. The only saving grace to this OPness is you'd actually have to read the wall of text to suffer from it.

As for being on topic, I'm not too surprised archers got shafted. The problem is the players without end-game gear get wrecked primarily by stray arrows. It doesn't matter if a wizard can hit them for 50K if a simple 6K hit can kill them, and so they go on the forums complaining about how OP archers are. They of course don't realize how squishy those archers are because they don't survive long enough to even try, or how bad our CC is because no one needs to CC them to kill them.

I am not saying I disagree with you; HOWEVER, welcome to the world of a bm (more the under-geared ones)... except you all have ranged to help you all along, which allow you all a lot more opportunities to cause mayhem, sure you may not be able to kill, but at least you all have better chances at it than a bm. Not to mention you all definitely have a chance to not be ganked every time you attack, which further allows you more flexibility with getting gear. (EDIT: Sure the range advantage may not be all that awesome for you casters/archers, but still it is quite an intangible factor towards meleers... a useful intangible at that.)

No ONE likes to be hammered before they have any time to react to what's going on, regardless of what class they are on, but still the fact is that most classes have a chance to at least do something more than just taking a single hit or two. It is far easier for a archer/caster to avoid getting ganked, making their gear come into play a lot less. Whereas melee's who are under-geared they pay for it DEARLY... granted barbs, and sins both have a way to ignore that the fact that the may have sub par gear assuming they are played correctly... (shields for the barbs, deaden nerves, stealth, focused mind, etc for the sins), sure bm's could to, but they would HAVE to use apo.

Meh I don't like this conversation/the fact that I keep disagreeing/pointing out the arguable flaws with the points being brought up.

---

It's hard to know if people are saying someone's logic fails because they're in disagreement/can't see things on the opposite side of theirs... or if logic really is failing to be in any part of either arguments.

Jarkhen - Archosaur · October 2013

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I am not saying I disagree with you; HOWEVER, welcome to the world of a bm (more the under-geared ones)... except you all have ranged to help you all along, which allow you all a lot more opportunities to cause mayhem, sure you may not be able to kill, but at least you all have better chances at it than a bm. Not to mention you all definitely have a chance to not be ganked every time you attack, which further allows you more flexibility with getting gear. (EDIT: Sure the range advantage may not be all that awesome for you casters/archers, but still it is quite an intangible factor towards meleers... a useful intangible at that.)

No ONE likes to be hammered before they have any time to react to what's going on, regardless of what class they are on, but still the fact is that most classes have a chance to at least do something more than just taking a single hit or two. It is far easier for a archer/caster to avoid getting ganked, making their gear come into play a lot less. Whereas melee's who are under-geared they pay for it DEARLY... granted barbs, and sins both have a way to ignore that the fact that the may have sub par gear assuming they are played correctly... (shields for the barbs, deaden nerves, stealth, focused mind, etc for the sins), sure bm's could to, but they would HAVE to use apo.

Meh I don't like this conversation/the fact that I keep disagreeing/pointing out the arguable flaws with the points being brought up.

---

It's hard to know if people are saying someone's logic fails because they're in disagreement/can't see things on the opposite side of theirs... or if logic really is failing to be in any part of either arguments.

We're not saying range confers no advantages. Not a single person here has said that.

What we have said is that it doesn't offer nearly as much of an advantage as you seem to think, and - especially for the class with crappy defense and crappy defensive options - it's not nearly enough. You're bringing up issues faced by non-endgame geared bms... we're bringing up the fact that archers are so ****ty defensively that even endgame geared ones get torn to ribbons with ease compared to all other classes.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver · October 2013

Jarkhen - Archosaur wrote: »

We're not saying range confers no advantages. Not a single person here has said that.

your right no one has, but seems like everytime I turn around someone is posting something, that seems to completely ignore that fact.

EDIT: (yes I make lots of them sorry. :$) To be fair to me I never said that someone said anything similar to that, but to me it seems like people just keep ignoring the natural advantage like it plays no role in mass pvp whatsoever, which is oh so wrong... in my honest opinion anyways.

What we have said is that it doesn't offer nearly as much of an advantage as you seem to think, and - especially for the class with crappy defense and crappy defensive options - it's not nearly enough. You're bringing up issues faced by non-endgame geared bms... we're bringing up the fact that archers are so ****ty defensively that even endgame geared ones get torn to ribbons with ease compared to all other classes.

You must have missed my edit.

oh well ill just quote it.

(EDIT: Sure the range advantage may not be all that awesome for you casters/archers, but still it is quite an intangible factor towards meleers... a useful intangible at that.)

Despite what it may seem to some I am trying to keep the bm talk to a minimum I know it doesn't belong here, ergo that's why I keep bringing up 'melee's' while talking, as they too suffer from the same 'lack' of... "natural" advantage that all bm's do. (Albeit it isn't an extremely huge advantage.) Still it is an advantage. (I just think it's kind of unfair to boost others defenses when they have so much ease killing most melees to begin with, especially considering how melees are OFTEN being attacked by more than 1 person at a time.) Though yes easy deaths of the melees is due to a lack of great gear, but casters/archers also have that range = damage factors on their side, making life HARD for the melee.

Other than that I agree archers are lacking in viable ways to get out of a gank, but still ignoring their 'natural' advantages over melees seems quite... asinine... or at least it does in my book. (I get it my book may not be the best, nor the one others go off of, but still... my point remains... I find it unfair to boost the defenses of ranged/caster people to "godly" (trying to use it loosely... I know this isn't what you all are asking for) amounts making it so hard to take them down. It seems quite unfair to me that even if melees could survive and all hop onto a caster (end game) one and the 5 melees are nearish end game, and they still can't bypass the defenses/skills of that caster... and yet if there was a 5 decently geared casters on 1 end game melee player... the results would be a lot different... it would be easier for the casters to take down the melee, than vice versa... or at least that is what I have experienced/seen. Especially when you factor in some of the 'intangible's' of the fights. Also I get it that is not always the case... but still... their natural advantages would give them the edge over the melee, as the melee, would have to run down, and kill them all... and when their defenses rival that of an HA, skills or no skills... their natural advantages kick back in, making it even harder for the melee to take them down.... fortunately for us we have GOF... still... natural advantages do play a role in each of the fights/the phys def/skills, etc.) EDIT: If casters weren't soloing 20 vs 1's I probably wouldn't even be questioning this... though yes part of the reason why casters can solo 20 ppl vs 1, is that evil proc/their INSANE defense that can sometime rival that of a melee! EDIT: I for one don't see how it's fair for a meleer to have to survive the hits from multiple people, and yet even when they get up to a caster OR an archer, they still can't kill at all... without some major help from others. (I am not saying it should be a soloer's paradise, but still aside from the defenses of a caster/archer (granted it thanks to refined gear) their natural advantages also plays quite a role in mass pvp, no matter how small of an advantage that may be... it is still an intangible advantage over meleers.

EDIT (Yes AGAIN

): I guess what I am trying to say is this, I dont get why archer, or casters seems to want to be able to tank everything that a melee can throw at them, especially when it is quite difficult for a melee to close those gaps in the first place. (EDIT:! Yes, I am aware the defense/str gaps significantly drops when both the meleer, and caster/archer are all end game, still in mass pvp.... natural advantages play a role, sometimes so much so that things become too much in their favor.) End game players of all classes have trouble to an extent taking on more than one person.... but again when you throw in natural advantages (no matter how small they may seem) they play big roles in deciding the way mass pvp plays out in the end.

Also I get it you all aren't asking for an insane boost, but still, boosting archers defensive abilities would effect the game in a way that no one could quite imagine until it happens... I for one can't see it turning out to be good for any class except archers... unless it was a REAL slight, nigh unnoticeable one... but tbh I can't see archer's being happy, nor content with that.

SinfulLia - Archosaur · October 2013

lol archers complaining b:chuckle
Seriously?
b:chuckle

Burnout - Harshlands · October 2013

The thing is, pure-ranged players don't know just how valuable that range is, because they've lived with it and adapted to the range. Try playing an endgame BM/barb/even seeker, and you'll see just how much more damage you take, and how much harder it is to output damage. You'll see how if the person just walks forward, it becomes literally impossible to hit with anything unless you use genie/skills that cost chi.

Also, I think the title of the thread may have been part of the reason why it's become so popular. Since when were archers pooed on every single update? When you guys got heaven shatter, that was a HUGE buff to your kill potential, and switched the balance of power over to archers. Then came R9, massive attack levels, and you guys suddenly became OP. R9 archers were up there with psychics/barbs in their overall strength.

Then morai came, and gave you stealth, two leap skills, and buffs to blood vow, which arguably gave you the best set of 79/100 skills out of any class. The only thing casters have really been given is purify. It was a huge buff, yes, but it's also countered by the fact that you can get **** levels of m.def when previously m. def used to be at a premium compared to p. def.

Quilue - Sanctuary · October 2013

Um...Purge has become the only reason the class is still playable.

When archers got Lunar bow was about the time I was barely hitting buffed robes for 1k with the +10 Lunar. Robe hp was like 10k buffed.

Now comes R999, and I hit ~2k on buffed jade robes unless Purge, but robe HP is like 20k buffed now.

Really you think Purge is so great...if the reason it's great is because it makes a **** class actually able to kill buffed people at endgame, I guess you can call it pretty OP, but the class itself...lol. I hear ignorant robe **** talk all day long about how much they want Purge...yeah it's because they'd one shot everything when it's added to a class that can already do damage.

Stealth, Leap, and buffs to Bloodvow and Awaken was necessary because the class sucked, plain and simple. Also, with new Morai skills for other classes adding more disables and even position shifts, it was necessary to have new skills to deal with all the ****. It's not like other classes got nothing and archers got Leap and Stealth or something.

Every update is one where archer's situation doesn't change much, and only keeps up with the BS. This particular update just looks like archers get **** on completely with the heavy damage added to many other classes.

Sure archers are one shotting crappy geared people left and right, but what endgame class doesn't do that? Are endgame melees complaining because one shots are running away from them before they can get one shot or something?

Burnout - Harshlands · October 2013

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Um...Purge has become the only reason the class is still playable.

When archers got Lunar bow was about the time I was barely hitting buffed robes for 1k with the +10 Lunar. Robe hp was like 10k buffed.

Now comes R999, and I hit ~2k on buffed jade robes unless Purge, but robe HP is like 20k buffed now.

Really you think Purge is so great...if the reason it's great is because it makes a **** class actually able to kill buffed people at endgame, I guess you can call it pretty OP, but the class itself...lol. I hear ignorant robe **** talk all day long about how much they want Purge...yeah it's because they'd one shot everything when it's added to a class that can already do damage.

Stealth, Leap, and buffs to Bloodvow and Awaken was necessary because the class sucked, plain and simple. Also, with new Morai skills for other classes adding more disables and even position shifts, it was necessary to have new skills to deal with all the ****. It's not like other classes got nothing and archers got Leap and Stealth or something.

Sure archers are one shotting crappy geared people left and right, but what endgame class doesn't do that? Are endgame melees complaining because one shots are running away from them before they can get one shot or something?

How hard do you get hit by psys while fully buffed? Most archers have 25k+ hp fully buffed, and w/ elemental necks you take 4-5k per nuke...considering each nuke takes 2-3 seconds to fire off, it takes psys just as long to kill a lot of archers unless they crit.

Assuming a modest crit rate of just 50%, you can kill a fully buffed arcane in under 8 seconds. The point is, killing a fully buffed, R9rr +12 JoSD target is hard for ANY class, not just archers.

Quilue - Sanctuary · October 2013

You cannot honestly look at this from a damage per second perspective and tell me classes just spam basic spells and base attacks at each other until one side dies. I have yet to see a Psy kill endgame people with Aqua + Impact spam. Too bad only AFK people stand around to take auto hits for 8s.

Other classes have options available to them to spike harder than the typical basic damage hits. Other classes also have the skills necessary, whether it be disables, debuffs, mobility skills, or amps, to try to output the necessary spikes.

At the end of the day, archers just have base attack and long channeling Metal skills as far as damage goes. There are archer skills that channel long as well, but does barely more than base damage.

How do you explain the archer skills that channel for 3+ seconds and doesn't even hit harder than Divine Pyro?

Try to kill everyone endgame with Pyro Gush, then you will understand what it's like. Don't even think about genie spark or heavier nukes. Disables, Undine, then Pyro Gush.

This isn't even mentioning damage on the triple buffed robes, but whatever.

Another update where we got pooed on...

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