Morai 101 weapons VS g16

cassie5th
cassie5th Posts: 0 Arc User
edited October 2013 in General Discussion
Ok i know this thing is been talked about lot of time but it seems that there still isnt a real answer to the question. Too many personal opinion and random refine/sharding while comparing them.

So, anyone really have tested same sharding and refining of any of them? Im specially interested in axes (bm) and swords/blades (seeker).

1)What is better for PVE only? Here the answer seem to be morai ones but like i said with too many random things during the tests.

2)Does it worth to wait to 101 for them? Using for example the morai 95 ones...or i get kicked from bhs? b:shocked

3)And how exactly the reforge work? i found 2 different thing like a reform (45 emblems + 150k) and a reshape (60 emblems + 200k)...confusing me a lot...b:surrender
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  • JanusZeal - Heavens Tear
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,852 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Go to pwdatabase.com, compare weapon ranges, weapon add-ons (might consider combining 60 lvl slaying wep with g16 armor), then compare defenses, add-ons, and set bonuses.. the answer should be obvious even for PVE.
  • Xainou - Sanctuary
    Xainou - Sanctuary Posts: 5,369 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Pretty sure reform is the one that resets your sockets and add-ons. Reshape should be the one that just resets your add-ons but keeps sockets.

    As for stats, would like to know that too. Especially mind-boggling with the axes =p
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  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Morai weapons (and armor) were a viable choice for people only interested in PvE but G16 Nirvana is so cheap nowadays that there's not much of a point not to get it. It's probably nice for a cheap weapon/armor for an alt (say you have Mystic main but Barb alt so different weapon types) but if it's main I'd say Nirvana.

    Whilst Morai one has more slaying levels, G16 Nirvana has a much higher base attack and if you ever decide to PvP you don't need to invest in a whole new weapon (and/or armor).

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  • byekunr
    byekunr Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Seeker's have a no-bound TT sword, that will turn into no-bound G16. I used both, Morai 101 and G16 and besides the add's be quite different, the damage was pretty much the same.
    The morai fee's is high, I think you should go for G16 no-bound sword as a Seeker.
  • Mosz - Heavens Tear
    Mosz - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,181 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    byekunr wrote: »
    Seeker's have a no-bound TT sword, that will turn into no-bound G16. I used both, Morai 101 and G16 and besides the add's be quite different, the damage was pretty much the same.
    The morai fee's is high, I think you should go for G16 no-bound sword as a Seeker.

    unrefined they may be similar damage, but remember morai refines for 13.3% less, after the first few refines the morai falls behind g16 unless you have a large amount of attack levels from other gear
  • cassie5th
    cassie5th Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    From what my pocket allow me atm i think ill go for something around +5 on every armor/access/weap and then ill see how my luck with money will go.
    So for some time i dont really have to think what will happen at very high refine

    The prob about g16 is to farm all the badges required to make them, atm im not so sure that my main can do full warsongs to get all the badges/molds in some decent time, only doing bouny hunter and so...and to make all the g16 set take forever :)
  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Lunar gives badges too so if going Warsong is not possible, you could try doing Lunar instead.
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  • WannaBM - Archosaur
    WannaBM - Archosaur Posts: 1,984 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Im sure in all the discussions you must have found the answer is clearly given each and every time.

    G16 is significantly stronger than morai. Base stats of morai items are terrible. The warding and slaying levels can just make up for the poor stats to make them equal to G16 without the attack or defence levels.

    And if you want proof on a total character, just do the math in PWcalc.
    Everything i write is from PvE perspective unless mentioned otherwise.
  • byekunr
    byekunr Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    cassie5th wrote: »
    From what my pocket allow me atm i think ill go for something around +5 on every armor/access/weap and then ill see how my luck with money will go.
    So for some time i dont really have to think what will happen at very high refine

    The prob about g16 is to farm all the badges required to make them, atm im not so sure that my main can do full warsongs to get all the badges/molds in some decent time, only doing bouny hunter and so...and to make all the g16 set take forever :)


    I didn't get it. You want a PVE char, but you don't want to farm with it? I think it was one of the best times I had on PWI, when i used to farm my own gear.

    When I farmed my Morai sword, I did it cuz back then G16 worth 120-140m against 17-20m (Morai). Now is practically the same price. b:pleased

    It's true, you can do just fine with Morai 101, but Morai is a dead-end and bound.
    Even if you don't think about PVP or high refines, G16 is no-bound with a higher damage, better refine and allow you to PVP or resell it later if you want to. b:victory
  • JanusZeal - Heavens Tear
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,852 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    cassie5th wrote: »
    From what my pocket allow me atm i think ill go for something around +5 on every armor/access/weap and then ill see how my luck with money will go.
    So for some time i dont really have to think what will happen at very high refine

    The prob about g16 is to farm all the badges required to make them, atm im not so sure that my main can do full warsongs to get all the badges/molds in some decent time, only doing bouny hunter and so...and to make all the g16 set take forever :)
    Make friends, go to TT runs..

    Learn to profit, use that profit toward mats..

    Do warsong runs, get badges+molds and pay substantially less for gear outright.

    How simple it needs to be is entirely up to you. If you want to put in the minimal amount of effort, you CS (and even those who CS their R9 still have to farm badges+molds to S3), or, you're stuck with ****ty gear.
  • Xainou - Sanctuary
    Xainou - Sanctuary Posts: 5,369 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    The advantage I always saw in the rroai stuff is that you can easily farm it on your own. And you can reroll it very cheap for the stats you want. Not a bad idea for a barb or someone who prefers vit and wont pk P:
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  • Walpurga - Dreamweaver
    Walpurga - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,028 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    A non pvp vit barb is much, much better off with G15 with zerk + vit for higher arma...
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  • cassie5th
    cassie5th Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Im sure in all the discussions you must have found the answer is clearly given each and every time.

    G16 is significantly stronger than morai. Base stats of morai items are terrible. The warding and slaying levels can just make up for the poor stats to make them equal to G16 without the attack or defence levels.

    And if you want proof on a total character, just do the math in PWcalc.

    The prob, like i said in my main post, is that a lot of people give personal opinion and do bad compareds between the 2 and even someone say they got very good stats and adds.
    So you say they sux, someone say good...and im confused b:shocked and dont really wanna use my not so much cash to get both and try.
    I know, dont have 10 hours a day to farm sux...expecially when u are at this point of the game.
    byekunr wrote: »
    I didn't get it. You want a PVE char, but you don't want to farm with it? I think it was one of the best times I had on PWI, when i used to farm my own gear.

    When I farmed my Morai sword, I did it cuz back then G16 worth 120-140m against 17-20m (Morai). Now is practically the same price. b:pleased

    It's true, you can do just fine with Morai 101, but Morai is a dead-end and bound.
    Even if you don't think about PVP or high refines, G16 is no-bound with a higher damage, better refine and allow you to PVP or resell it later if you want to. b:victory


    Oh i really like the farming thing, i only think that if i try to go in full warsong without a good weap they dont even try to get me, too many old playee/cashshoper with +10 and more weaps.
    that lead to a load of fire/metal/lunar and whatever give badges.
    Atm i got a g15 dag and waiting to get around 120 badges before try the g16, dun wanna end up with horrible stats and losing the -int. That give me around 10 attempt to get some decent stats, from there i can actually entyer in full ws and farm badges for my alts for sure^^
  • KeKeLeLe - Archosaur
    KeKeLeLe - Archosaur Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Previously, I was using the G15 morai dual swords, with 2 socs, refined it to +6, with adds like +18 str and +1atk lvl. This weapon works well in any PvE instances.

    Recently, I got myself a new weapon, G16 Infinite Longing with really bad stats, so I have decided not to refine it till I farm more badges so I can do a reroll.

    What I can say is that, G16 definitely is stronger than G15 morai, after I tested it in delta and warsong ^^
  • cassie5th
    cassie5th Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Previously, I was using the G15 morai dual swords, with 2 socs, refined it to +6, with adds like +18 str and +1atk lvl. This weapon works well in any PvE instances.

    Recently, I got myself a new weapon, G16 Infinite Longing with really bad stats, so I have decided not to refine it till I farm more badges so I can do a reroll.

    What I can say is that, G16 definitely is stronger than G15 morai, after I tested it in delta and warsong ^^

    This is what i wanted to listen^^ Someone with both that actually tested it. And if u say that even unrefined g16 is stronger, well of course it will after sharding and refining.
    Even if, in the g16 case, im going to astral ballad casue it look cooler b:laugh
  • Ynxi - Archosaur
    Ynxi - Archosaur Posts: 53 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    For weap: G16 definitely
    Armor on the other hand i find myself standing a lot longer with morai g15 gear then with g16.
    Hell in warsong i've seen rrr9 seekers dying on the groups after which i slowly finished those off whilst the seekers return from their graves....
  • cassie5th
    cassie5th Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    The armor could be interesting too, actually i still havent comapred the stats/adds but it was on my mind for some free day.
    The problem here is to survive till 101 with lvl 95 morai one. Is that enought? Not too much refined/sharded casue its not the "final one".
  • Euthymius - Heavens Tear
    Euthymius - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,162 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    I use my Morai G15 over my G16 for PVE currently.
    Mostly because it's got 2 sockets and better add-on stats. I guess it also helps that I've already got additional attack levels to multiply with the slaying levels due to armor bonuses and Black Voodoo since the damage is pretty...similar.
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  • JanusZeal - Heavens Tear
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,852 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    I use my Morai G15 over my G16 for PVE currently.
    Mostly because it's got 2 sockets and better add-on stats. I guess it also helps that I've already got additional attack levels to multiply with the slaying levels due to armor bonuses and Black Voodoo since the damage is pretty...similar.
    It was stated on the forums somewhere too concerning PVE damage (by a pretty reliable source) that slaying lvls combine better with attack lvls (example: morai slaying wep with attack lvl bonuses) than attack lvls combine with other attack lvls. Not sure if that's still the case but if someone only does PVE this idea should be explored too.

    That's just my view concerning the PVE aspect.. I would never rule out PVP so by my own subjective logic I'd still go with n3 in case one changes their mind. Obviously slaying wep will be terrible for PVP in comparison.
  • Morridune - Raging Tide
    Morridune - Raging Tide Posts: 239 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    my personal exp I found my +6 morai unsharded duals ( from lumi ) did on average 500 points more on mobs in heaven than the +10 g16 and sharded infinite longings a friend let me borrow to test with ( as both are dual swords so similar diff in low and top damage range), this was wearing full r9 Omen gear tho so could be the combo of atk lvls + slayer vs the pure atk lvl from g16 combo I do know a barb tho who also never lost aggro using the top end morai axes +10 and a sin with crazy dps using the dags( pulled from r9 omen sins with 5aps to his 4) I personally think the slayer weapons are under estimated but again this is in my current experience g16 tho will serve you better on average if you also decide to opt in more for pvp stuff as morai is terri bad vs players
  • Salari - Raging Tide
    Salari - Raging Tide Posts: 2,102 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Warding and Slaying levels stack(multiply) with attack levels and defense levels to make up the lower stats,base dmg, refine rate ect. It was calculated some time back that an equally refined level 101 Morai weapon could equal or exceed(with right stats and attack levels) the DPS capability of R9 (First stage) in PvE, just like G15 Niv with the right stats could do the same. This was more on sins that I posted about myself with my experiences.

    Not all classes may have a good benefit from the gear, say like Clerics. The slaying levels did nothing for their heals and I think some posted there was a very large difference trying to heal with a morai weapon(it sucked even at higher refines 6+). Other instances like bm's and barb could benefit. Cata Barbs with the ability to add 1050 Hp for a very low cost compared R8R(at the time) and G15 Niv reroll's. And I talked to several BM's that dumped their R8 or G15 Niv gear for G15 morai in most pve instances because it gave them better defenses.


    A lot of people try to compare just the price of Morai to G16 Niv. Yes G16 Niv is pretty much farmable from G15 to G16, but the price of making G13 Niv gear in the first place has not(aside raps and cannies). Those that can not farm all the mats to make TT99 or Lunar gold quickly much less the funds to buy the mats outright may opt to getting Morai gear. I can not remember off hand the prices of Morai gear, but I do think it comes out cheaper.

    In the end Morai gear is pretty decent gear for the casual pwi player, but if they want to compete at a higher level in NW or TW or even PK they will need to go to the next level and Morai is a good start.
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  • cassie5th
    cassie5th Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    well not planning to do tw, nw, pw or whatever similar.
    need to equip the chars for bh, instances, things with guildies and so. thats why i got this worm in my mind about going g15 morai on the toons that can have some advantage from that.

    sin is not going cause of -int
    bm only axe IF they are better then g16, rest is required for -int too
    seek, veno, myst, psy could be full g15 morai IF again...and here come the need to think about some -chan on the caster

    not going to use barb/cler/wiz/archer

    and yes, make the full g15 morai its lot cheaper then the g16, but that not really a problem. with jollies some money income will be done with time.
    im worried only about how it good or bad works playing with it.
  • Salari - Raging Tide
    Salari - Raging Tide Posts: 2,102 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    cassie5th wrote: »
    well not planning to do tw, nw, pw or whatever similar.
    need to equip the chars for bh, instances, things with guildies and so. thats why i got this worm in my mind about going g15 morai on the toons that can have some advantage from that.

    sin is not going cause of -int
    bm only axe IF they are better then g16, rest is required for -int too
    seek, veno, myst, psy could be full g15 morai IF again...and here come the need to think about some -chan on the caster

    not going to use barb/cler/wiz/archer

    and yes, make the full g15 morai its lot cheaper then the g16, but that not really a problem. with jollies some money income will be done with time.
    im worried only about how it good or bad works playing with it.

    Yeah with sins, you only need the dagger, but tbh its a waste of coins for little gains over the cheaper R8 dagger and you will have r8 anyway for the -10 int on chest.

    same with bm's if you go aps

    with a psy, it already has high chan to begin so there is no real loss for choosing morai over anything else.

    with your other toons, i just cant say tbh i have not played any to level high enough to use morai gear
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  • FlyingStab - Archosaur
    FlyingStab - Archosaur Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Many people say that 1 image worth more than 1k words so i better made a video ^^. After i read this post and see so many people doing their apport but not much real numbers i decide to take my old g15 morai dual swords from my bank and record me while doing my morais and BQ. I basically first went to the Fire Eaters parts and kill first 8 with G16 Astral Baladas +7 (18str 19str 310MP,1 Perfect Garnet) and the next 7 with morai G15+5(18str 350HP 350HP, no shard), then i had to kill those skorpions for Shroud and i record that too as they are consider lvl150 so u can see the damage on those [?] mobs.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkdjRzkS4mM&feature=youtu.be

    Basically on Fire Eaters i did between 19 to 25k damage with G16+7 using always the 3 spamables skills (Batuossai, Stagering, RockSplit) and trying to avoid the higher damage ones. When i was using my G15+5 morai i did between 16 to 20k. On the [?] mobs the damage was between 7 to 10k with G16+7 and 5 to 8k with g15+5 Morai. I use R8cast set with G16 helm+robe and Jones Blessing.

    So thats is, G16 have better refine, 1 shard and more str but i think the thats not enough to compensate the difference in damage. I would suggest to make G16 from unbounding tt99 so u can sell the weapon in case u need it and thats another good point compared to the bounded G15 morais.
  • cassie5th
    cassie5th Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2013

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkdjRzkS4mM&feature=youtu.be

    G16 have better refine, 1 shard and more str but i think the thats not enough to compensate the difference in damage.

    This was really helpfull, and somehow sad, all my dreams about g15 morai weaps are DEAD.
    I agree on the fact that the difference on refines and shards is not enought to compensate, untill some math genius come and say me the opposite b:chuckle


    Now only rest the thing about armors...only...b:surrender

    Anyone with both sets wanna make a video? b:laugh


    Copy and past the topic renaming it "Morai 101 armors vs g16" or can any mod change the name to weapons/armors together? b:kiss
  • Walpurga - Dreamweaver
    Walpurga - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,028 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Morai doesn't even come close, off of the +Def, stat and + def/atk level and refine rate and base.

    It also only gives a tiny bit of warding level so in PVE full G16 is still tankier.

    i.e. I am full G16, but Incarcerate, with omalley and BB, only hits me for 2.5Ks, which, with my 12K buffed HP I can tank lol, not counting APS buff and adds debuff ofc
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  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    cassie5th wrote: »
    well not planning to do tw, nw, pw or whatever similar.
    need to equip the chars for bh, instances, things with guildies and so. thats why i got this worm in my mind about going g15 morai on the toons that can have some advantage from that.

    sin is not going cause of -int
    bm only axe IF they are better then g16, rest is required for -int too
    seek, veno, myst, psy could be full g15 morai IF again...and here come the need to think about some -chan on the caster

    and yes, make the full g15 morai its lot cheaper then the g16, but that not really a problem. with jollies some money income will be done with time.
    im worried only about how it good or bad works playing with it.

    If you're going to use classes that can use the same type of armor/weapon then it's much better to get G16 Nirvana because it's not character bound, instead of having to farm and buy two whole sets of the same type. Psychic will benefit from the Nirvana armor too but if you want, you can get the G15 Morai sphere.
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  • Salari - Raging Tide
    Salari - Raging Tide Posts: 2,102 Arc User
    edited October 2013

    yeah some classes may benefit from them others may not

    sins can benefit some soloing earth with lvl 95 pixies +4 no shardshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qX2APSN7GA

    (was an help video requested by a guildie)

    now compared to g16 niv +10 (no attack add's)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qX2APSN7GA
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  • CapnK - Sanctuary
    CapnK - Sanctuary Posts: 1,166 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    The value of warding levels depends primarily on the mob levels you will be fighting. The lower the mob level, the stronger warding gets. I run the full set of Morai gear and level 90 Lunar mobs are a joke, 100 Abba mobs not much better. Delta ? mobs still do decent damage but the warding helps.

    At this point in the game G16 is cheap enough that there is no reason to go Morai anymore. But I don't regret getting Morai when I did (prior to G16 existing and the Nation Wars rap/canny crash). It's still great gear and I got my money's worth out of it and then some.
  • Annalyse - Heavens Tear
    Annalyse - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,618 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    I went for the Morai gear before the Nirvana G16 came out. I have full Morai sets for my wiz and veno as well as G16 now. How do they compare? My wiz's +7 Morai sword, with 2x mag and 1x vit stats, does not hit as hard as my +7 Nirvana G16 glaive with the same addons. And in the full gear set she tanks waves of Rebirth now that she never could in the Morai. I see a huge difference, personally.

    That said, if you want something you can farm on your own, the Morai is perfectly reasonable gear if you are PvE. I don't recommend using the lower tiers of it on a high level char because it isn't all that great, but the G15 is nice and people won't kick you from a squad for using it.
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