Is TW Outdated - Part 2

Apostasy - Raging Tide
Apostasy - Raging Tide Posts: 1,197 Arc User
edited October 2013 in General Discussion
On the basis of this issue still being as it was at the time of it's originally being posted, I figured this should be reanimated from the dead.

One suggestion I have to TW has been stated on a number of occasions... Revise the maps of each territory to reflect that territory specifically while retaining the current TW battlefield scale.

As far as rewards go, there should be something. Something at least for fluff's sake... points toward unique/exclusive fash? mounts? flyers? maybe?
Post edited by Apostasy - Raging Tide on
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Comments

  • SylenThunder - Twilight Temple
    SylenThunder - Twilight Temple Supprot Guru Posts: 7,908
    edited October 2013
    I like the idea of having the maps appear like the territories they reside in, especially with different landscapes to change the battlefield a bit. From a hardware point of view though, this will require a whole lot more resources than are being currently used. It will require much more RAM or even more servers to load that many different maps.

    I think it would be neat if the crystal on the PvP map dropped items like the bosses do on the PvE maps.

    It would also be interesting to see a buffing system similar to that in NW for the instance, but based more on level, than on gear/soulforce.
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  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    I agree that TW could use an update. I'd love a diversity in maps. Even though I haven't been doing TW as long as other people (it's been only about an year and half) I'm already quite bored of the same map over and over. The strategies you can use there are also very limited and often predictable.

    In the end it turns down to which faction can get there first and wreck the other. The update we had on towers and the crystal certainly helped a lot and make TWs more challenging, even for the well geared but I think even that is getting a little old now.

    What I'd love to see is, like mentioned, a variety of different maps (corresponding to the TW land). It would be interesting to have air and underwater TWs. It would be a lot different. Various classes your would or gain advantages.

    Also, remove that annoying seal (from the spawn at least)! I wish it was like NW instead. Not necessarily a free AD but at least spawning with some chi or a couple of buffs would be neat.
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  • JanusZeal - Heavens Tear
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,852 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    There isn't enough populace to make use of the 80 cap.

    I don't know about your servers, but the top 2 guilds in HT had issues throughout the season of showing 80, and in the last 2 months one of those guilds broke apart making the TW's like 60-70 v 30 or so. Otherwise, there was no competition whatsoever, and guilds 3 and 4 could show what, 20-30? Guilds 5 and 6 not even half that.

    The best way to address a declining population in TW is to modify TW to better reflect that and substantially reduce the max capacity to 20-30, along with other changes to reflect lower max capacity such as bringing back down the crystal's HP and possibly defences too. Max capacity of 80 is simply outrageous for going into 2014. Bringing it down along with a few other changes brings far more guilds into the mix while keeping the "srs business" nature of TW somewhat intact. Couple that with better rewards I guess..
  • Beleni - Dreamweaver
    Beleni - Dreamweaver Posts: 383 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    There isn't enough populace to make use of the 80 cap.

    I don't know about your servers, but the top 2 guilds in HT had issues throughout the season of showing 80, and in the last 2 months one of those guilds broke apart making the TW's like 60-70 v 30 or so. Otherwise, there was no competition whatsoever, and guilds 3 and 4 could show what, 20-30? Guilds 5 and 6 not even half that.

    The best way to address a declining population in TW is to modify TW to better reflect that and substantially reduce the max capacity to 20-30, along with other changes to reflect lower max capacity such as bringing back down the crystal's HP and possibly defences too. Max capacity of 80 is simply outrageous for going into 2014. Bringing it down along with a few other changes brings far more guilds into the mix while keeping the "srs business" nature of TW somewhat intact. Couple that with better rewards I guess..

    Dreamweaver :: RELIC - constantly hits our 80 + limit for TW

    Want to join us ? http://www.relic-dw.shivtr.com/
    95+
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  • bluestuffzzz
    bluestuffzzz Posts: 627 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    There isn't enough populace to make use of the 80 cap.

    I don't know about your servers, but the top 2 guilds in HT had issues throughout the season of showing 80, and in the last 2 months one of those guilds broke apart making the TW's like 60-70 v 30 or so. Otherwise, there was no competition whatsoever, and guilds 3 and 4 could show what, 20-30? Guilds 5 and 6 not even half that.

    The best way to address a declining population in TW is to modify TW to better reflect that and substantially reduce the max capacity to 20-30, along with other changes to reflect lower max capacity such as bringing back down the crystal's HP and possibly defences too. Max capacity of 80 is simply outrageous for going into 2014. Bringing it down along with a few other changes brings far more guilds into the mix while keeping the "srs business" nature of TW somewhat intact. Couple that with better rewards I guess..

    Long gone are the days when we could pull two full 80 VS 80 TWs while a faction or two fights at the same time with around 40 VS 40, making a total of over 300+ TWers per friday, saturday, and sunday.

    Nostalgic.
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  • Ursa - Dreamweaver
    Ursa - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,634 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Dreamweaver :: RELIC - constantly hits our 80 + limit for TW

    Want to join us ? http://www.relic-dw.shivtr.com/
    95+
    Our faction video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mG0ieDqIHP0

    Dreamweaver is one of the most populated PvE servers, if not the most, and probably second in population after LC.
    I checked (well, visually) the population/activity on the other servers maybe 10 days/a week ago and really, we're doing pretty well.

    As for RELIC having 80 ppl for TW...yup, that's true. I can never know if I can attend or not so I don't sign up, but if/when I can be online usually there is no free spot to get in.b:sad
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  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    My faction has an average of 60-65 people per TW. Sometimes it's lower and sometimes we get to 75.. I do know however a couple of factions this season that could pull 80 (or more) for their TWs but it kinda went down towards the end of the season.

    Lowering it a bit wouldn't be a bad idea I suppose. I think NW also contributed to less people wanting to TW though. NW gives some sort of reward while TW is not guaranteed to give you anything in return. Also, people from other timezones would often wake up for NW (to farm for coin or just gear stuff) but wouldn't make the effort to wake up for TW the next day.
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  • JanusZeal - Heavens Tear
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,852 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Long gone are the days when we could pull two full 80 VS 80 TWs while a faction or two fights at the same time with around 40 VS 40, making a total of over 300+ TWers per friday, saturday, and sunday.

    Nostalgic.
    Nostalgia really serves no purpose here either. b:surrender

    So I guess as far as TW is concerned, HT is declining faster than other populated servers?
  • Apostasy - Raging Tide
    Apostasy - Raging Tide Posts: 1,197 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    There isn't enough populace to make use of the 80 cap.

    I don't know about your servers, but the top 2 guilds in HT had issues throughout the season of showing 80, and in the last 2 months one of those guilds broke apart making the TW's like 60-70 v 30 or so. Otherwise, there was no competition whatsoever, and guilds 3 and 4 could show what, 20-30? Guilds 5 and 6 not even half that.

    The best way to address a declining population in TW is to modify TW to better reflect that and substantially reduce the max capacity to 20-30, along with other changes to reflect lower max capacity such as bringing back down the crystal's HP and possibly defences too. Max capacity of 80 is simply outrageous for going into 2014. Bringing it down along with a few other changes brings far more guilds into the mix while keeping the "srs business" nature of TW somewhat intact. Couple that with better rewards I guess..
    I find it amusing... we can fight like an old married couple throwing ceramic dishes at each other in one thread b:beatenupb:beatup... and AGREE on something in another thread b:cuteb:chuckle. I'd have to say yes, they should lower the 80 down to 40 per side, at least for now. If whatever they are planning to do with Archosaur Studios goes well, then they could always rework the cap back up to 80 again.

    An alternative to lowering the 80 cap however, is given the "Allies" system they have. Originally when I first heard the name of it, I thought it would allow for "Allied factions" to actually send aid in attacking or defending territories. This would have been a very good move on their part. If this would be implemented in this manner, the max cap of 80 could stay as is. Thus the total of the main attacker or defender plus their allied faction aiding them could total at 80. This would also allow more players to TW more often and not need to have alt characters for this purpose.

    Hmm... as for what the actual rewards would be... think PWI, but not too PWI... Obviously for the faction overall is whatever those "proofs" amount to, plus lands for bragging rights... Im thinking the winning faction members individually however might get 1 random pack of any of all the "Perfect Tokens Packs" that exist. These would have the current odds of getting whatever they already have the chance of giving. Obviously, win more TW's in a weekend, get more packs randomly. This also allows all of the "outside of the in-game means items" to actually be brought into the game by some means. This would work well with the "Allies system" mentioned above I think. The losers would get an extra lucid b:mischievous
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  • Eoria - Harshlands
    Eoria - Harshlands Posts: 6,118 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Guild #1 usually fields around 60-65 per TW. It is rare we get a full 80.
    Guild #2 is apparently always around 70-80.
    Guild #3 used to be getting 120 or so on for TW, but numbers have declined and I've heard anywhere from 65-80.
    Guild #4 always gets a full 80, but it doesn't matter because guilds 1/2/3 would roll them in 10 minutes anyway.
    Everyone else gets 40-50 or less.

    tbh, I'd be for lowering the amount of people allowed in TW to 40-50 and then lowering the amount of people allowed in guild down to 100 or so. ofc, I'd also lower the amount of defenses per timeslot back down to three in this case.
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  • Untamed_pain - Archosaur
    Untamed_pain - Archosaur Posts: 533 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    No we don't need to lower it 80 vs 80 is good. I love Tw. If your a fan of PVP and NW you don't need a prize to do TW.

    Although free buffs and chi like NW i like that idea and upgrade tw and take away the invisible walls.
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  • JanusZeal - Heavens Tear
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,852 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    No we don't need to lower it 80 vs 80 is good. I love Tw. If your a fan of PVP and NW you don't need a prize to do TW.

    Although free buffs and chi like NW i like that idea and upgrade tw and take away the invisible walls.
    How many TW guilds on Arch show 80 every week?
  • SMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver
    SMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver Posts: 400 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Top 4 factions on Dreamweaver usually field 80+ people in TW each week, outside of these top 4 there is a huge decline in numbers of other factions who TW.
  • Linc - Raging Tide
    Linc - Raging Tide Posts: 589 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    So if 80 folks take 3 hours to turtle a defense, then would we extend the time to 6 hours with 40? Have 2 catas instead of 4? They beefed up the defense structures and crystal health for 80 v 80, so then if 40 is limit, should they decrease the defense structures and crystal health?

    Reducing the numbers sounds like a lot of work, but I could be wrong since I'm no game designer. What would be nice though is that when they increase the cata count for the bidders, then they could reduce the defender count to make higher tier lands more difficult to defend. Also one of the reasons weaker factions don't attack stronger ones is because they have no chance. How about "handicap" instances the way they do in golf or bowling or w/e.
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  • JanusZeal - Heavens Tear
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,852 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Top 4 factions on Dreamweaver usually field 80+ people in TW each week, outside of these top 4 there is a huge decline in numbers of other factions who TW.
    Wow. I wish HT would even field 2 with 80+.

    Something is amiss.. wonder if the new TW season will change anything.
  • CapnK - Sanctuary
    CapnK - Sanctuary Posts: 1,166 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Enelysion usually (not always) has 70+ on Sanctuary. It's certainly a contributing factor to our success because our opponents usually have <60. Not sure how much Vindicate and Hoorah are pulling right now.

    As for changes, I'd like at least three different maps instead of the current one. Maybe an air-based battle and an underwater battle depending on the specific territory you're defending. Like Raging Tide area and Misfortune area would be underwater, Heaven's Tear would be aerial, etc.

    The long seal on respawn is something that definitely needs to be changed but it needs to be done carefully or it could go badly. If you could attack as soon as you respawned, turtling would be *really* easy.

    I'm thinking keep the long seal but add invulnerability for the whole time. That way you could move around and have others buff you after you die, but not actually do anything yourself.
  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited October 2013

    The long seal on respawn is something that definitely needs to be changed but it needs to be done carefully or it could go badly. If you could attack as soon as you respawned, turtling would be *really* easy.

    I'm thinking keep the long seal but add invulnerability for the whole time. That way you could move around and have others buff you after you die, but not actually do anything yourself.

    That sounds good like a good idea :o
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  • scruncy
    scruncy Posts: 458 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    the catapult will fly behind you then in a Air Tw ?b:chuckle
  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Probably lol.
    I'd assume there's something on the ground that auto 1shots you thus forcing everyone to stay up in the air.
    Bewitch skill would be pretty OP there (and that other flight cancel skill) then but that would make up for the lack of the ability to use Venomancer's natural fast speed. Unless the ground would be far down that gives enough time to fly up before you hit the ground.
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  • fansouthcorea
    fansouthcorea Posts: 63 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    The long Seal after death take too long,will be more fun if will be max 3 secs.
    80 players each faction is a good number for TW
    maybe 1 more tower each entry gate but not inside
  • Cantabrum - Archosaur
    Cantabrum - Archosaur Posts: 246 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    arch 80 + ppl for tw b:chuckle meaybe 1????????????
  • ToyMaker_NOT - Raging Tide
    ToyMaker_NOT - Raging Tide Posts: 397 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    I'd like there to be a tactical advantage from attacking from the higher ground. The TW map already allows for elevations.

    Why not raise atk/def levels for the person with the higher ground while dropping the levels for the person on the lower ground?

    For example, on a ground-to-ground elevation difference of 5 the higher elevations gains 5% atk/def levels while the lower elevations looses 5% atk/def levels, 10% swing.

    With ground-to-air the atk/def levels would be half just as the damage is. So instead of a 10% swing it is reduced to 5%.


    Just a thought.
  • ChiefZoltar - Heavens Tear
    ChiefZoltar - Heavens Tear Posts: 104 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    I think it'd be fun if after every season, there was a tournament between servers pitting the top factions against each other with the winner getting a nice prize. And this could be on a different day or time slot to avoid conflicting with the normal TW times.
  • Apostasy - Raging Tide
    Apostasy - Raging Tide Posts: 1,197 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    I think it'd be fun if after every season, there was a tournament between servers pitting the top factions against each other with the winner getting a nice prize. And this could be on a different day or time slot to avoid conflicting with the normal TW times.
    Im lovin this idea (and actually the air and underwater ideas that were also stated)... mainly because 1. it is a good idea... and 2. wanna see everyone that nws goes ape b:fatbb:chuckle as we were told our version of PW can not have server vs server for nw, so how would it be possible for tw instead? b:question

    Again, there might be hope in server vs server events such as both tw and nw if Archosaur Studios has the ability to do so. I mean think about it... 2 individual server nw times... and maybe 1-2 server vs server nws... and tws as they have been... but the top 1-2 factions on each server going server vs server tws for like a month or 2 after tw season winners are announced... those factions would have access to a server tw map to bid on OR the tw map on their server. This would give the weaker factions a month or 2 head start on the tw map of their own server... while the big wigs are chasing carrots on server vs server...


    And there would be no need to have any kind of reward for the server vs server tws, except something for the number 1 and maybe number 2 tw faction on the server vs server overall... maybe a gold dark lord set or grey set, or better yet... a dyeable set (hood included), yeah, this would be be nice... and pangu damn it, make an effing fem dark lord set too b:angry I mean really, the chance to say your server is the best will be enough in that case... its all ego at that point... maybe a handful of people in any top faction would actually qq about costs/rewards then...
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  • HunterRich - Heavens Tear
    HunterRich - Heavens Tear Posts: 65 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    There isn't enough populace to make use of the 80 cap.

    I don't know about your servers, but the top 2 guilds in HT had issues throughout the season of showing 80, and in the last 2 months one of those guilds broke apart making the TW's like 60-70 v 30 or so. Otherwise, there was no competition whatsoever, and guilds 3 and 4 could show what, 20-30? Guilds 5 and 6 not even half that.

    The best way to address a declining population in TW is to modify TW to better reflect that and substantially reduce the max capacity to 20-30, along with other changes to reflect lower max capacity such as bringing back down the crystal's HP and possibly defences too. Max capacity of 80 is simply outrageous for going into 2014. Bringing it down along with a few other changes brings far more guilds into the mix while keeping the "srs business" nature of TW somewhat intact. Couple that with better rewards I guess..[/QUOTE

    dropping to 60 could be fun, but at this stage of the game there could almost be a need for 2 different types of TW. one with the current towers and crystal for say 101+ toons, since most are at some form of R9 S1-2-3 or Nirvana S3 and another TW instance for 100 and under, with the old version of the towers and crystal for the lesser geared toons that are R8, N2 or less. the tower updates have had an impact on TW fun for the lesser geared toons that use to have fun on map resets for the first month or 2. under the old TW setup, the newbies trying out TW use to be able to have fun or it also gave people a chance to try out different toons that they havent maxed out their gear yet. NW time slot being on friday also had an impact on the TW drop off too. or i guess you can look at it another way, those that are R9S3 or N3 +10-12, wheres the challenge anymore? look at the numbers in NW's, they have dropped off alot too.
  • Szol - Harshlands
    Szol - Harshlands Posts: 242 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    imho only one two changes really needed :

    - introduce nw npc buff(maybe even stronger for lower lvls than the nw currently already is)

    - give guild members an option to trade guild contribution/merit for *TW-only* charms



    FIXED b:dirtyb:dirtyb:dirtyb:dirty
  • UltiMaia - Morai
    UltiMaia - Morai Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Air and water battles!
    New maps that follow real territories!
    Changing the player cap and seal time!


    That's all I'm interested in right now.
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  • klys
    klys Posts: 283 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Hi,

    No underwater maps. GTFO.

    That's all, bye.
  • Euthymius - Heavens Tear
    Euthymius - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,162 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    klys wrote: »
    Hi,

    No underwater maps. GTFO.

    That's all, bye.

    I can agree with this to an extent.
    Barbs and Fish would have an edge because of Swimming Mastery/Tideform (lol no skills though)

    Kiting would be awfully difficult for others too, and the best movement one would get is teleports and leaps since all other movement skills will be nullified by swimming.
    I'm open to the idea of water battles, but it'll need to be changed up some if its strictly in that terrain.

    Maybe if that style of combat had a starting point from land with the objective being to cross the sea to the enemy's land? Or just a literal sea battle iwth boats like pirate ships (like that boat outside of Archosaur East).

    -Both attackers and defenders embark from their lands on ships (or start on the ships as is, idk) and engage each other until one's boat is destroyed to win.
    -Squad leads take quests to fire canons or to attempt to rope your way onto their ship (can fall into the water doing this perhaps)
    -Boarding the ship means you have to fight the enemies on it, as well as destroying certain parts of it
    -Blasts from destroying certain parts can knock allies and enemies close by off of the ship and into the water
    -You can fight in the waters, but you need to get back to a certain point of the ship to return to it
    -Alternatively, Knockbacks could work for all classes here so that you can push your targets overboard (distance of the actual knockback may be halved)

    Something like that could work maybe.
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  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    I can agree with this to an extent.
    Barbs and Fish would have an edge because of Swimming Mastery/Tideform (lol no skills though)

    Kiting would be awfully difficult for others too, and the best movement one would get is teleports and leaps since all other movement skills will be nullified by swimming.
    I'm open to the idea of water battles, but it'll need to be changed up some if its strictly in that terrain.

    Maybe if that style of combat had a starting point from land with the objective being to cross the sea to the enemy's land? Or just a literal sea battle iwth boats like pirate ships (like that boat outside of Archosaur East).

    -Both attackers and defenders embark from their lands on ships (or start on the ships as is, idk) and engage each other until one's boat is destroyed to win.
    -Squad leads take quests to fire canons or to attempt to rope your way onto their ship (can fall into the water doing this perhaps)
    -Boarding the ship means you have to fight the enemies on it, as well as destroying certain parts of it
    -Blasts from destroying certain parts can knock allies and enemies close by off of the ship and into the water
    -You can fight in the waters, but you need to get back to a certain point of the ship to return to it
    -Alternatively, Knockbacks could work for all classes here so that you can push your targets overboard (distance of the actual knockback may be halved)

    Something like that could work maybe.


    That would be epic!
    I guess we're dwelling too much into other types of games but pirates existed everywhere anyway and we already have that big ship and stuff so it wouldn't be a bad idea o.o
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