PK advice yooo

SmexyChelsea - Raging Tide · September 2013

So, my comp sucks so I don't bother recording on it, maybe I will some other time I don't know. I asked my friend to record a few of our fights. ( I lost every single one -.- ). His gear are all full +12 r9rr ring, nw pdef ring, g16 cube neck, cloud charger cape and warsoul helm all +12 with jades, obviously r9rr vs me, ( 3 pieces of armor +10, 3 pieces +11 ) everything else +10, no r9rr ring and g14 mdef necklace.

Your comments are much appreciated and I know it'll be harder to give advice since its from his point of view but any advice to help me improve my gameplay would be awesome. Thanks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTc-eLS-C9o

Wickedbrew - Raging Tide · September 2013

Hope you farmed all your stuff, because otherwise it would have been a better option to get a better computer instead of wasting money on this game.

Kniraven - Lost City · September 2013

Just from watching the first minute and fifteen seconds I can already see some things you need to improve.

1.)
You don't ever use your stealth skills.
You're missing out on free chi as well as the element of surprise if your opponent is lower or equal level to you.

Stealth allows you to set up your combos, recover and gain chi, attack after something like plume shell has come off cool down, spark before an attack, etc.

2.)
You aren't immobilizing your opponent before sealing them.
When you seal her she just runs away from you.

3.)
You don't use your sleep to set up amps for combos.
You can sleep your enemy, amp them with genie, take a sec to recover or use a chi skill or reactivate deaden, give your other skills a bit to cool down before chaining sleep with a stun or paralyze + seal.

4.)
You completely waste your faith when you're not even in trouble.
You use it to get out of sleeps before being amped or anything and with your hp bar still at full.

5.)
At times you seem to arbitrarily do little circles and dance around your opponent without any real purpose. Like you will just run in a little circle around her or back up like 5 meters then run back toward her for no purpose, during which you could be dealing damage instead or at least keeping within constant close range and pressing her.

6.)
never triple spark in pvp unless you know they've already wasted their genie on something and are confident you can stun them for a small duration of time,

P.S. Don't give me any of that **** about how its unfair to stealth in a 1v1.
If you can;t stealth tell her she isn't allowed to heal.

SmexyChelsea - Raging Tide · September 2013

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

Just from watching the first minute and fifteen seconds I can already see some things you need to improve.

1.)
You don't ever use your stealth skills.
You're missing out on free chi as well as the element of surprise if your opponent is lower or equal level to you.

Stealth allows you to set up your combos, recover and gain chi, attack after something like plume shell has come off cool down, spark before an attack, etc.

2.)
You aren't immobilizing your opponent before sealing them.
When you seal her she just runs away from you.

3.)
You don't use your sleep to set up amps for combos.
You can sleep your enemy, amp them with genie, take a sec to recover or use a chi skill or reactivate deaden, give your other skills a bit to cool down before chaining sleep with a stun or paralyze + seal.

4.)
You completely waste your faith when you're not even in trouble.
You use it to get out of sleeps before being amped or anything and with your hp bar still at full.

5.)
At times you seem to arbitrarily do little circles and dance around your opponent without any real purpose. Like you will just run in a little circle around her or back up like 5 meters then run back toward her for no purpose, during which you could be dealing damage instead or at least keeping within constant close range and pressing her.

6.)
never triple spark in pvp unless you know they've already wasted their genie on something and are confident you can stun them for a small duration of time,

P.S. Don't give me any of that **** about how its unfair to stealth in a 1v1.
If you can;t stealth tell her she isn't allowed to heal.

Thanks for the reply! I have some reasons I did what I did at some points i'll post em below

.

1. Yeah, I talked to him about it. I was telling him there's so many times I wanted to use stealth just so I could get some chi back when I was at 0. I suppose I don't use it much cause i'm not used to it? I normally only use it in group PvP but I guess I should try to use it more often.

2. The seals were mainly to try and disable him from attacking me.. most of the time my immobilize is on cd.

3. The sleep thing is normally to try and setup a double spark although sometimes i'm forced to use it. I've been trying to tackling >sleep>double spark > throatcut but it fails sometimes and I gotta use it to stop him.

4. My faith yeah I admit im not sure how to use it lol, I always spam it.. His debuffs scare me cause he can easily 1 shot me with a crit if i dont have a def charm on =/

5. Lol this parts funny.. most of my skills ( that dont require chi )would normally be on cooldown ( I think ) at that point so I just like to keep myself moving lol . Should probably stop doin that :S (I can't really remember, maybe there were some off cd, I just always get a mini panic attack when i have no chi )

6. Yeah i kinda gave up at some point so i thought id try a desperate move to see if i could get some lucky zerk crits haha. The triple spark was a troll moment :P

Thanks for your comments I appreciate it, they were all really helpful and i'll try to improve on my gameplay based on it

Zsw - Dreamweaver · September 2013

I'm going to address this from a different perspective. Kniraven tried to say that you have poor execution. However, your execution is not that bad. Instead, I will address the theory of pvp instead.

Assassins do not need stealth to win 1 v 1 if there is no gear difference. However, in your case, the gear difference is huge. If you two truly want a fair 1 v 1, you should either have her take off gears, or have you get buffs to make up for it.

End game PvP is extremely different from early game pvp. You can read Tsyren's guide to understand what I mean. http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1555611

The Main Issue is:

You are Demon, so you will be at a chi disadvantage. You wasted too much chi on trying to lock your opponent. You should instead conserve chi and save your cooldowns for when your opponent is actually vulnerable.

Sometimes, it may be better to not seal your opponent every chance you get. For example, if your opponent's charm ticked and has about 50% hp left, it may be better to keep attacking, as opposed to using a seal skill. When you are at full hp with charm off cooldown and your opponent just put on plume shell, it may be unnecessary to seal them.

Keep an eye on their genie usage. You have to conserve your chi because you must try to force their genie with your first spark(or power dash, debuff stack, or anything that will give you a good boost of damage), then after they used their genie, spark again for the kill.

In fact, at one point in the video I was sure you would've won.

Additionally:

It is acceptable to kite out of your opponent's range to recover if necessary. You attempt to kite, but then appear to have a change of mind for some reason and go back. That resulted in your death multiple times. If you plan to kite, just do it.

Sometimes, it may be better to anti stun while tidal is off. A cleric can sleep you for the entire duration of your dew of star. Anti-stun will give you more chances to force the cleric to use her genie.

I noticed that you have heart of steel on your genie, but most of the time, it does not seem to be used during a time that it can save you. If you are not at risk of getting 1 shot after a sleep, you could instead let the cleric hit you once to wake you up, then heart of steel to prevent further damage. Using Heart of Steel while they are stacking debuffs on you is not recommended.

However, the points above requires more or less equal gears. If your gears are unequal, you are forced to lock your opponent to prevent yourself from dying purely because they hit you too hard. Every time you are forced to do that, you are at a huge disadvantage because you are wasting both chi, time and cooldowns.

I recommend getting into contact with Tsyren. Your playstyle resembles his, more so than mine.

One more thing. I made these points as I watched the video. You actually got better the more fights you did. In fact, in the later fights, you figured out some of these points by yourself.

Aeliah - Dreamweaver · September 2013

I think I know why she's doing the little back up and run in thing. Its a common tactic for sins to get 4.5 meters (+ a tiny bit) when fighting against bms, barbs, other sins, so that you can get your skills off, particularly immobilize, but they can' retaliate. Buuuut its completely useless against arcanes. Stick up nice and close to them. Don't bother backing up; in fact the best place to stand is right in the middle of where they are. If they want to run they gotta run 4.5 meters in any direction to escape you instead of a fraction of a meter backwards. Clerics don't port, clerics don't have run speed buffs, clerics don't stealth. Stay close!

I'd honestly just run away when tidal is off cooldown, or better yet, stealth. Ignore any stigmas surrounding kiting and stealthing. If you are losing, you don't hold off using the skill that defines your class. And like Zsw said, you need to expend less chi on a lock, and more on dealing damage... I want to see some triple sparks, and people who say 'don't triple spark' can go f' off lol. Double or triple sparking is the only thing you are going to be able to do to get her to use that genie, which, barring the extremely lucky 'you slept her and her hp is floating just above half and you zerk crit on a headhunt with tangling mire in', is a must for killing her. Spam double or triple sparking might be the only thing you can do to put everything into cooldown and create openings of vulnerability.

Familiarize yourself with plume shell timing. Since, as a sage sin, she thinks is in no danger of you purging her, she'll spam it. It lasts 20s, it has a 30s cooldown. Watch it go in and keep a mental timer going. Time your big offense several seconds before it runs off: example, at second 18, double spark, immobilize, then throatcut before she can purify off the immobilize. You probably won't kill the first few times but you'll almost certainly force a genie use.

If you are feeling particularly shameless, use a spirit of defense, and then if she tries to follow suit, attempt to purge it off with bow, preferably you start from stealth, maze steps, few hits with bow, then will surge (notice how she tried sleeping most of the time before seal of gods? Each cleric is a bit different with this, I'll typically try seal of the gods first, so you have to just learn these things and take a good guess). Get off maybe 6-7 hits with a spirit blackhole, then if you do actually get that purge, switch back to daggers asap, port in and deep sting. Tip: plume shell may seem to be insurmountable, but what you gotta remember is, it is possible to empty that mana pool if the damage is high enough. Particularly if you've just purged, you can blow through that mana if you triple spark and get a few hits in. And if it doesn't work, you can keep trying till it does. Remember: you can eventually purge off her apoth, she won't ever get yours... not with the genie she uses anyways lol. (I do have a fist eruption genie for purging on hand but I don't usually pull it out, since its not 105 yet and doesn't have ad).

Ah, this is getting long. Basically I do agree with Zsw, the execution wasn't bad, just, you were executing the wrong sorta things. Or, to put it this way: your errors were more strategical than tactical. Does that make sense to you? You have to change how you plan the fight, more than you improve how you combo your skills together. In your shoes I'd be wielding my chi a bit more heavy-handedly for damage, and relying a little more on luck to avoid status effects, and, when in trouble, I'd run (clerics cannot chase you very far, remember, no built in speed skills), or stealth, and get chi back. By limiting your chi gain to only hitting her, and never stealthing you are removing several of your class advantages: mobility, surprise, chi gain. A cleric has you beat in the ability to tank by a huge margin. Your only chance is to overwhelm with offense.

Good luck!

Aeliah

SmexyChelsea - Raging Tide · September 2013

@Zsw

Thanks for the advice. I actually sent tsy a private message before I posted this but I guess noone reads their messages lol. I actually like fighting people better geared than me cause it forces me to improve my offense and defense in some way just my opinion I guess =/. Also, yeah I realize I have alot of problems with conserving my chi. It gets used up so fast its not even funny.. Mainly cause i need to double spark to kill him. I would like to practice more against clerics but the only clerics that actually pk on my server have maxed out gear so it'd be kinda hard.

Like you said at one point I thought I was gonna get him but I guess I just wasnt hitting hard or fast enough.. It's always the last hit where I start choking up and make some dumb mistake.

@Aeliah

I never though about it like that but yeah you're right.. I'm so used to keeping at max range while dding its hard to get out of the habit. Also, you're right about getting plume shell timing down. It's so hard I guess i'm just not used to it yet ( I used to think it was a 30 sec shield lul ) that shield is the most annoying thing in the world =/.

I do try to double spark more against him but I normally try to get the typical tackling>sleep>spark>throat combo in.. Always trying to wait for a nice time to pull it off but its hard to do without using another disable skill

I guess my problem really is chi management.. I'm not used to dealing damage without locking the person down cause they tend to run lots lol.

Thanks for the advice it's really helpful! I'll try to record some fights once I find a program to download. So at least you can see my chi and what cooldowns are on/off. We'll see how it goes. Hopefully I find the time lol

DionDagger - Dreamweaver · September 2013

SmexyChelsea - Raging Tide wrote: »

@Zsw

Thanks for the advice. I actually sent tsy a private message before I posted this but I guess noone reads their messages lol. I actually like fighting people better geared than me cause it forces me to improve my offense and defense in some way just my opinion I guess =/. Also, yeah I realize I have alot of problems with conserving my chi. It gets used up so fast its not even funny.. Mainly cause i need to double spark to kill him. I would like to practice more against clerics but the only clerics that actually pk on my server have maxed out gear so it'd be kinda hard.

Like you said at one point I thought I was gonna get him but I guess I just wasnt hitting hard or fast enough.. It's always the last hit where I start choking up and make some dumb mistake.

@Aeliah

I never though about it like that but yeah you're right.. I'm so used to keeping at max range while dding its hard to get out of the habit. Also, you're right about getting plume shell timing down. It's so hard I guess i'm just not used to it yet ( I used to think it was a 30 sec shield lul ) that shield is the most annoying thing in the world =/.

I do try to double spark more against him but I normally try to get the typical tackling>sleep>spark>throat combo in.. Always trying to wait for a nice time to pull it off but its hard to do without using another disable skill I guess my problem really is chi management.. I'm not used to dealing damage without locking the person down cause they tend to run lots lol.

Thanks for the advice it's really helpful! I'll try to record some fights once I find a program to download. So at least you can see my chi and what cooldowns are on/off. We'll see how it goes. Hopefully I find the time lol

I'll hit Tsy up and tell him to respond if I speak to him, meanwhile try to pay attention to your opponent. Guage their play style. Are they offensive? Passive? Defensive? All those things will show you weaknesses and expliots. Save your throat cut for when they spark or channel tempest, it frustates them, especially if they just wasted 2 sparks on you just to be sealed for the duration. So many sins focus on locking an opponent down rather than just killing them. I used to be that way before I started fighting non aps sins and casters with purify. If they run, get in their face if you know you have the upper hand. Sometimes when fighting, you have to mentally disturb the enemy to win. When they show a weakness or make a mistake, expliot it. But that's just my 2 centsb:victory. Wish you luck.

-DD

Aeliah - Dreamweaver · September 2013

Hmmm... when you are undergeared, your only hope is to be much more offensive than them. If you are somewhat fatalistic, think that 'well I'll probably lose this fight anyways'. If you first accept that, then you can move onto the next step. 'Put it all into offense'. You must pressure the cleric into using their defensive skills, sometimes when they aren't necessary. You pressure them, then you slip away like a true assassin: run or stealth. You come back when ready and try again.

A lot of sins don't agree with me on this point, but I say, triple spark all the way. Wield that chi heavy handedly. Keeping in mind that I'm a tricky bugger who isn't afraid to stealth or run away and hit mobs for chi if my offense didnt' work... dps tactics against modern arcanes. But who says that chi-crazy sages can't do similarly unfair... completely legit tactics? Its not like you are ganking the cleric. The cleric is more than strong enough to kill you. Discard those notions of honor that are weighing you down.

Think about it, from the cleric's perspective. Deep sting, triple spark, tackling slash. Do you risk seal of gods not working on a sage tidal sin? Do you stand there and try to tank (lets assume you did the deep sting right as plume shell ran out) the triple sparked sin? I've tried it. Its not smart. Double spark? I'll risk it, triple... no way. What do you do? You do... *something*. And that something won't be vanguard spirit (lucky for you, this cleric you are fighting is demon). They'll use apoth, genie, 79 shield, pious blessing maybe, as soon as they can.

You: anticipate that they'll do something. They WILL survive this triple spark. You count on it. The first things you do are tackling slash, then rising dragon, just like so. Now you you have about 10 seconds to try and tick as many of their cooldowns as possible. Spam dd. You get in close. You hope you avoid sleep and seals. You deep sting them again... and impossibly, you triple spark again. Now they are gonna be getting a little bit worried, but they still have things in reserve. This time you inner harmony, tackling slash, then maybe do a throatcut. You pretty much will force them to do something again. You've just ticked another defensive *something*. Ok. Hit, do some dmg.

Now, you triple spark one more time. Say wuuuuut? Really? Hell yes. Triple spark, tackling slash, and... rising dragon. Yup, one more time. This triple spark will probably fail too. When its over, get into stealth and get tidal back. Run about 40 meters away to waste their detection apoth till you have tidal ready.

The next 2 triple sparks you have a chance to kill the cleric. Don't worry if these fail too. By now you've probably ticked the 79 shield. That has a 5 minute cooldown. You've probably forced her to use apoth as well. If these triple sparks fail as well, get away and get your cooldowns back.

Honestly, thats exactly what I'd be doing in your shoes. They'll hate it: their margin of error goes way down if all you are hitting them with is triple sparked dmg. One slip up and you could win just like that, just on damage alone. Naturally it will never go exactly as I've described, but its the principle of how you approach the fight. Extremely offensive, extremely mobile, not afraid to kite when your chips are down, and relentlessly throwing huge damage at the cleric. Occult ice even... tanky clerics won't have badge of course, they'll have expel (like the cleric in this video) or belief (like me). If you think you've ticked her ad, I'd be all for pulling out something absurdly basic like a triple spark power dashed occult ice combo. It honestly has a better chance of catching them off guard than 10 minutes of a perfect control lock on your part with no dmg to back it up. Know what I mean?

intuition007 · September 2013

lol ep cant just purify freeze?

3 spark > freeze > purify > 3 spark wasted

think you can make video of it?
good cleric like SonH or Smash pls

DionDagger - Dreamweaver · September 2013

tehforsakenone wrote: »

lol ep cant just purify freeze?

3 spark > freeze > purify > 3 spark wasted

think you can make video of it?
good cleric like SonH or Smash pls

3rd cast cleric can if purify procs, but remember purify isnt 100%, and triple spark powerdash is a damage combo, not a CC combo. Powerdash proc before it does damage, so you get 40% increase on spark damage and sages get that 10-50% crit glitch, the skill does a nice amount of damage, it alone can drop their HP.

Walpurga - Dreamweaver · September 2013

He means regular purify skill

Aeliah - Dreamweaver · September 2013

i can try to make a video of it. I usually beat smash in 1vs1s (my sin vs. his cleric), though it has been a few months since the last bout. To be completely fair, I use full buffs on sin when doing 1vs1, anything less is just suicidal and pointless for me. To be fair to my opponents i invite them to get whatever buffs they want as well, which I'll then attempt to purge off without dying (though if they show up in psy buffs and they aren't a psychic I will stealth 10 minutes lol).

A *good* cleric will purify the tackling slash fast enough. If you wanted to be tricksy, you might consider counting on that, and trying variations:

deep sting > triple spark > condensed thorn (smashnHeal is a heavy armor cleric after all) > rising dragon, tackling slash > dps

deep sting > triple spark > rising dragon > spell cutter > knife throw > tackling slash > dps

deep sting > triple spark > rising dragon > condensed thorn > spell cutter > tackling slash > dps

deep sting > triple spark > inner harmony > throatcut > tackling slash > dps

deep sting > triple spark > tackling slash > spell cutter > dps

Just off the top of my head. I have no doubt that I've used all those variations and more at one point or another; i've probably used variations of those in a single fight before. You want to stay one step ahead of a cleric if possible. A tanky cleric like smashnheal or to a certain extent sonH, will try to seal of gods you right after you triple spark; 1 spark for 3 sparks, good tradeoff if it works. You might count on this and use will surge at the appropriate time. Occult ice works pretty well too, if you save it for the right time; aka, power dash (never use subsea since the debuff could go poof at any time).

Thoughts to consider.

Aeliah

DionDagger - Dreamweaver · September 2013

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

He means regular purify skill

Freeze from tackling slash, yes. Freeze from occult Ice doesnt allow you to use skills.

ZooozOOo - Archosaur · October 2013

well was a nice vid most ppl already pointed out all imp points...
just gona ad one more thing its just that asserting how many hits u can tank frm ur opponet is important so that u can time the genie accordingly in this fights case i notice u can tank up to 4-6hits.. i hope next time when u fight her u will do much better gl keep fighting beeter gears i love doing it to b:laugh b:victory

Evertide - Lost City · October 2013

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

i can try to make a video of it. I usually beat smash in 1vs1s (my sin vs. his cleric), though it has been a few months since the last bout. To be completely fair, I use full buffs on sin when doing 1vs1, anything less is just suicidal and pointless for me. To be fair to my opponents i invite them to get whatever buffs they want as well, which I'll then attempt to purge off without dying (though if they show up in psy buffs and they aren't a psychic I will stealth 10 minutes lol).

A *good* cleric will purify the tackling slash fast enough. If you wanted to be tricksy, you might consider counting on that, and trying variations:

deep sting > triple spark > condensed thorn (smashnHeal is a heavy armor cleric after all) > rising dragon, tackling slash > dps

deep sting > triple spark > rising dragon > spell cutter > knife throw > tackling slash > dps

deep sting > triple spark > rising dragon > condensed thorn > spell cutter > tackling slash > dps

deep sting > triple spark > inner harmony > throatcut > tackling slash > dps

deep sting > triple spark > tackling slash > spell cutter > dps

Just off the top of my head. I have no doubt that I've used all those variations and more at one point or another; i've probably used variations of those in a single fight before. You want to stay one step ahead of a cleric if possible. A tanky cleric like smashnheal or to a certain extent sonH, will try to seal of gods you right after you triple spark; 1 spark for 3 sparks, good tradeoff if it works. You might count on this and use will surge at the appropriate time. Occult ice works pretty well too, if you save it for the right time; aka, power dash (never use subsea since the debuff could go poof at any time).

Thoughts to consider.

Aeliah

I'm on my nook at work so bare with my devices auto correct. My question is on comboS. Why use 3spark when 2 spark is same song amp and is one less bubble?

DionDagger - Dreamweaver · October 2013

Evertide - Lost City wrote: »

I'm on my nook at work so bare with my devices auto correct. My question is on comboS. Why use 3spark when 2 spark is same song amp and is one less bubble?

In the world of highly refined daggers and zerkcrits. 3 spark>2 spark in any situation where you have complete control. You can more damage per hit with allows for charm bypass, especially on skills that scale off pure wep damage like Rift.

Kastus - Raging Tide · October 2013

SmexyChelsea - Raging Tide wrote: »

So, my comp sucks so I don't bother recording on it, maybe I will some other time I don't know. I asked my friend to record a few of our fights. ( I lost every single one -.- ). His gear are all full +12 r9rr ring, nw pdef ring, g16 cube neck, cloud charger cape and warsoul helm all +12 with jades, obviously r9rr vs me, ( 3 pieces of armor +10, 3 pieces +11 ) everything else +10, no r9rr ring and g14 mdef necklace.

Your comments are much appreciated and I know it'll be harder to give advice since its from his point of view but any advice to help me improve my gameplay would be awesome. Thanks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTc-eLS-C9o

Hope This Helps LOL

this was filmed when i had +10 immac cits but +12 weapon

obviously Arawin's gear is far greater than clergy but clergy depends more on skill xD

Zsw - Dreamweaver · October 2013

SmexyChelsea - Raging Tide wrote: »

@Zsw

Thanks for the advice. I actually sent tsy a private message before I posted this but I guess noone reads their messages lol.

By the way, if you still want to contact him, contact me and I can deliver your message.

PK advice yooo

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