sage bp worth it for a buff alt?

Even tho I love my sage BP. I would suggest going demon if the toon is gonna be used for farming, mainly due to the skill cost and the lack of int from spark doesnt help once you have to notch defensive gear. I recommend sage to those that don't want to invest in an aps set much, but still want to do a bit of farming, or the toon is their main, in that case it's a different story.

As for what WannaBM said. Sin's need top notch gear to solo things like 2-3. I don't because I am sage, but even then I can still bite the dust because the last boss hits me for like 4k. My rines are pretty much +5-+7 all around. I'd suggest +8 average for that boss to think about truly soloing.

I've stated before, the real attraction for lvl 11 paint, sage or demon, was the 1 hour buff. I know my bm's defenses are high enough that as long as I'm attacking pretty regularly I fully heal off of paint alone. It doesn't matter if it's demon or sage. For the most part, the only time I'm in trouble is if I'm purged and paint is gone or if I'm chain stunned, slept, lose my spark, can't keep my dps up,... In those situations sage or demon hardly matters also.

The real bonus for me was with lvl 11 paints I could spam multipler TTs without it running out (and especially without it surprising me by running out in the middle of a boss).

I personally prefer to duo with a demon sin because demon rib strike and better dps make a big difference in how much damage I take and how quickly things die. I also like demon Subsea because it's rarely timed perfectly, especially when duoing, and 15 seconds gives me a bigger window to match with my 9 second HF than a 7 seconds sage.

PlsStahp - Sanctuary wrote: »

My main concern is that ive heard demon sins suck and aps=noob. I want a challenge too and not be some 'aps noob'.

I guess sage sins have a better edge due to sins having tons of chi gaining skills which allows them to permaspark. However, they need better eq or so i heard.

Considering that i want to bring her to 100 eventually, which path do i go?

For PvE, there isn't too much for either sage or demon to do than aps. Especially the better geared you get. Undergeared sins have to 'finesse' a little, sleeping 1 mob to kill another or shadow escaping, or stopping to buff Focused Mind and Deaden Nerves for just a few mobs. Aps=noob is just a label. It's because so many sins have the mindset "all I need is more dps to tank" and then they get aggro and still die. Solution? More paint heals by more dps which means more aggro and... dieing more. Ignore people who say aps=noob. Just be smart. Sometimes aps really is the best solution, sometimes its not. Use it when its appropriate, which for a sin is alot of the time.

Sage chi gain is an edge in PvP where you skill spam more and aps less. In PvE demons have an easier time permasparking because they get more aps from their triple spark, meaning they don't have to stop and use skills just to keep a perma spark. 4 aps is permasparked. Most sins get 3.33 with all their gear. This means sage need to find chi by skill use, demons triple spark to 5.0. This means after 1 spark sage get 250 chi and demon get 375.

One culti really doesn't get an equipment advantage over the other. Sage can start soloing earlier because they're triple spark gives them 25% reduction. This effect is similar to a 33% boost in hp so a 6k sage sin triple sparked is more like an 8k sin in survivability. This means they can start soloing with lesser armor as long as they stay triple sparked. But sages are somewhat more constrained in their gear choices because they don't get -int from their triple spark so they need to find -int elsewhere. This limits them to the standard aps set (every piece) and often a -.1 weapon like G13 daggers, or dropping out of a permaspark situation (2.86 aps/3.33) or heavily relying on windshield to keep up their aps and eating their genie. On the other hand, demon's can swap gear pieces for defense and comfortably use G16 daggers with only .-05 and still remain permasparked. Demon gear advantage is more versatility and cheaper aps, sage gear advantage is the 25% survivability boost so lower refine requirements.

One last thing to point out, and this has nothing to do with a buff alt. A standard aps setup is 3.33 base and 5 aps triple sparked. Compare a 3.33 sage and a 5 aps demon and the damage from attack speed difference is roughly 50% (5/3.33=150.1%). The difference between 2% bloodpaint and 3% bloodpaint is... you got it, 50%. This is a very basic analysis and I'm sure some sage's want to throw in Powerdash (about a 3% difference) and sage mastery (about a 1% difference) and ignore Wolf Emblem or argue for genie use (sage will windshield, demon will frenzy or EP or TM) but most the time the demon will have very similar amounts of paint heals just from their higher dps, but as WannaBM pointed out they'll be sparking more for more heals, resisting damage more often, etc... and thinks will go down quicker. If you're duoing and you HF+TM and your Sin alt Triple sparks+Subsea things die fast.

All that said... I went sage buff alt and play my demon BM and demon Sin. Now my demon Sin has sage bp if I ever feel he needs it. Demon bp runs 15m+ and you can get sage bp for around 30m. All I wanted was the hour buff and with both so expensive the sage was a better choice.

Unholly - Morai wrote: »

Questions you need to ask yourself:

What am I farming and will i be farming anything harder?

How have I been doing with 2% heals? If you can survive what you are currently farming and don

pssh...

I always write these walls of text I think are good advice then I see another post as simple as this and go "Wait. That's better advice."

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

I've stated before, the real attraction for lvl 11 paint, sage or demon, was the 1 hour buff. I know my bm's defenses are high enough that as long as I'm attacking pretty regularly I fully heal off of paint alone. It doesn't matter if it's demon or sage. For the most part, the only time I'm in trouble is if I'm purged and paint is gone or if I'm chain stunned, slept, lose my spark, can't keep my dps up,... In those situations sage or demon hardly matters also.

The real bonus for me was with lvl 11 paints I could spam multipler TTs without it running out (and especially without it surprising me by running out in the middle of a boss).

I personally prefer to duo with a demon sin because demon rib strike and better dps make a big difference in how much damage I take and how quickly things die. I also like demon Subsea because it's rarely timed perfectly, especially when duoing, and 15 seconds gives me a bigger window to match with my 9 second HF than a 7 seconds sage.



For PvE, there isn't too much for either sage or demon to do than aps. Especially the better geared you get. Undergeared sins have to 'finesse' a little, sleeping 1 mob to kill another or shadow escaping, or stopping to buff Focused Mind and Deaden Nerves for just a few mobs. Aps=noob is just a label. It's because so many sins have the mindset "all I need is more dps to tank" and then they get aggro and still die. Solution? More paint heals by more dps which means more aggro and... dieing more. Ignore people who say aps=noob. Just be smart. Sometimes aps really is the best solution, sometimes its not. Use it when its appropriate, which for a sin is alot of the time.

Sage chi gain is an edge in PvP where you skill spam more and aps less. In PvE demons have an easier time permasparking because they get more aps from their triple spark, meaning they don't have to stop and use skills just to keep a perma spark. 4 aps is permasparked. Most sins get 3.33 with all their gear. This means sage need to find chi by skill use, demons triple spark to 5.0. This means after 1 spark sage get 250 chi and demon get 375.

One culti really doesn't get an equipment advantage over the other. Sage can start soloing earlier because they're triple spark gives them 25% reduction. This effect is similar to a 33% boost in hp so a 6k sage sin triple sparked is more like an 8k sin in survivability. This means they can start soloing with lesser armor as long as they stay triple sparked. But sages are somewhat more constrained in their gear choices because they don't get -int from their triple spark so they need to find -int elsewhere. This limits them to the standard aps set (every piece) and often a -.1 weapon like G13 daggers, or dropping out of a permaspark situation (2.86 aps/3.33) or heavily relying on windshield to keep up their aps and eating their genie. On the other hand, demon's can swap gear pieces for defense and comfortably use G16 daggers with only .-05 and still remain permasparked. Demon gear advantage is more versatility and cheaper aps, sage gear advantage is the 25% survivability boost so lower refine requirements.

One last thing to point out, and this has nothing to do with a buff alt. A standard aps setup is 3.33 base and 5 aps triple sparked. Compare a 3.33 sage and a 5 aps demon and the damage from attack speed difference is roughly 50% (5/3.33=150.1%). The difference between 2% bloodpaint and 3% bloodpaint is... you got it, 50%. This is a very basic analysis and I'm sure some sage's want to throw in Powerdash (about a 3% difference) and sage mastery (about a 1% difference) and ignore Wolf Emblem or argue for genie use (sage will windshield, demon will frenzy or EP or TM) but most the time the demon will have very similar amounts of paint heals just from their higher dps, but as WannaBM pointed out they'll be sparking more for more heals, resisting damage more often, etc... and thinks will go down quicker. If you're duoing and you HF+TM and your Sin alt Triple sparks+Subsea things die fast.

All that said... I went sage buff alt and play my demon BM and demon Sin. Now my demon Sin has sage bp if I ever feel he needs it. Demon bp runs 15m+ and you can get sage bp for around 30m. All I wanted was the hour buff and with both so expensive the sage was a better choice.

I would like to say that sage does give a slight advantage for certain bosses like Steelation and Colleast in 3-1 where you cant always build enough chi by auto attacking alone. I once ran out of chi because Colleast decided he wanted to attempt to purge me 5x in a row. It's quite rare that that happens, but it's an example where culti can matter. As for the rest, I prefer 50% more paint heals over 50% more damage, maily due to the fact I hate seeing my HP dip if it's aviodable. Demon is faster ofc, but for what I want my sin to do. Sage fits my playstyle, sometimes that's more important than what farms faster.

As for the aps=/=noob people. APS is still the best DPS tactic in the game, including PvP. Charms negate it due to the fact of their being space between attacks, but still does a lot of damage. Just ignore them.