Sin Vs Seeker Pro's and cons

as the question is asked it is nonsense... It's like asking...

rice or macaroni
car or bike
man or woman
day or night
(if you think about it you will find many other comparisons :P )

it all depends on what you want it for.. Both have pro's and con's

Seekers are one of the most broken classes atm. Embrace them while you can.

i feel safer playing a seeker o.o others peck at me and i can swat them away

1vs1 fight equal gear(r9.3)and sharded...both skilled 6/10 or sometimes even 7/10 times sin would probably win in 1vs1...sins hit hard plus tidal protection...hopefully seeker can 2hit them or kill them soon, cause longer the fight goes more the sin triple sparks more dmg they'll keep doing..then they'll hit you with that 14k zerkcrit..plus 12k and ur dead x.x.

Or the fight goes long enough that their tidal protection goes out and you can finally kill them (dont forget about their constant stun/freeze/sleep/triple spark...) even with no tidal they can still be a threat...unless you have vaculty potion. then you can use that and kill them while they have no tidal on

Now a Full JOSD seeker with r8r def lvl sword + r9r will win 90% of the time vs most sins unless the in is full Attack level +2 tiger gem thing..then i would say the odds would be in favor of the sin if they know how to play

Raphxelion - Raging Tide wrote: »

1vs1 fight equal gear(r9.3)and sharded...both skilled 6/10 or sometimes even 7/10 times sin would probably win in 1vs1...sins hit hard plus tidal protection...hopefully seeker can 2hit them or kill them soon, cause longer the fight goes more the sin triple sparks more dmg they'll keep doing..then they'll hit you with that 14k zerkcrit..plus 12k and ur dead x.x.

Or the fight goes long enough that their tidal protection goes out and you can finally kill them (dont forget about their constant stun/freeze/sleep/triple spark...) even with no tidal they can still be a threat...unless you have vaculty potion. then you can use that and kill them while they have no tidal on

Now a Full JOSD seeker with r8r def lvl sword + r9r will win 90% of the time vs most sins unless the in is full Attack level +2 tiger gem thing..then i would say the odds would be in favor of the sin if they know how to play

Seekers do more damage if full str than a sin. The weapon and damage ranges are much higher. Seeker really just has to wait on a zerk crit from a metal skill. However if the sin has decent defense and offense. It's a very close fight.

Raphxelion - Raging Tide wrote: »

Yea I guess you're right...my seeker is +12 warsoul with r9.3 armor so not having zerk on weapon makes going against sins pretty tough if they know how to play, ill admit it i loose most of the time against good sins o.o

I guess getting a lucky zerkcrit with r9.3 will 1hit/2hit most sins. But the seeker also has to have pretty good defense + genie because sins have soo many control abilities and they zerk/crit more often than seekers...dont forget about their ability to consistantly spark adding a 500%-600%damage boost...

btw my analysis are based on "self-buffs" no outside buffs
bm/barb/cleric buff would prob help the seeker more than than it would help the sin...

And the thing with sin class...they are highly dependent on skill than gear.
Highgeared sin can suck and get owned by a lower gear sin that really knows how to play it's class (long as they are both r9.3 and weapon refines are close)

Depending on skill... that comes naturally to all classes honestly. Seekers can easily do the same thing too. The only thing is sins have it a lot easier due to their ability to avoid most combos and having CC skills thrown right at them along with a means to gain the chi for them right away.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Seekers and sins can both absorb damage but they do it in different ways. Sins have soaks and buffs to aviod damage/debuffs. Seekers have natural tankiness from HA, def lvs, healing spells, and the ability to redirect debuffs. Sins don't have it easier, it's just different. Btw a sin w/o chi is as good as dead.

That's obvious, if Seekers had no means of absorbing damage there wouldn't be a thread like this to begin with. The actual problem is that endgame sins (full 3r9 obviously) can be quite tanky.

Since you mentioned healing spells, I assume you mean Last Stand and Blood-Thirsty Blitz. Now let me compare Last Stand with Deaden Nerves for example. You might ask yourself just why Last Stand seems a lot better right? Except the fact that you're forgetting all the CC skills sins have as opposed to seekers. Having an OP healing skill is as useless as any other such skill when you're stunned and can't cast it anyway. Yet Deaden Nerves works wonders as long as you have it activated during any kind of status. Blood-Thirsty Blitz is quite a nice healing skill assuming you have the chi to use on it. But it does require a close target, it's still risky enough to use it when it's actually needed and get through with it safely.

Quid can be easily avoided by Tidal, and most of the time ends up **** the Seeker up completely due to them having debuffs on them and Quid being in CD. Now in regards to your chi comment... I'd rather pretend it wasn't there honestly. Chi management is a skill, I'm sure you're aware of this already. Now if we don't count sage chi skill, list me all the skills seekers have that specifically say they give us chi. On the other hand our meaningful skills require chi- quite a nice combination don't you think? I'd love to see something like a sin without chi, considering they have 4 chi-gaining skills out of which, besides the stealth, one of them gives 2 sparks at the same cooldown as Master Li's Technique, another gives 150 chi at HALF that cooldown, and the last one gives 50 chi at 1/4 of it. I'm sorry but I don't think even a monkey could run out of chi on a sin that easily lol.

I'll have to assume you simply haven't seen a good DPH sin yet and that's why you don't find them as pesky as I do. I wish they would stop directing all the "OP" attention to Seekers just so that sins can get away with it.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Lol I am a DPH sin when I fight. How do you think I know? Sins have CC skills to make up for the lack of tankiness, I thought that was obvious. Even with those 4 skills you can still run out of chi and be screwed, or did you forget how many sparks a sin can do through in about 5 secs? More than you know. Deaden restores 10% HP. On an LA class that's one hit honestly. It allows for charm ticks, but normally if deaden does tick, something might kill you after. Let's not even get into what actually happens to sins in TW/NW. I'd be glad to be a seeeker because I always get focus fired. Utfetter is 100% immunity to debuffs and doesnt cost a spark. Not saying its better, but in some situations it has the upperhand. I've played both classes in the 100's, can you say the same?

Yes lets forget that seekers do similar if not more damage than sins and about more tanky. I never said seekers are that OP, they are broken however. Radiant sight, 30 def lvs, Sac Slash, QpQ, Utfetter, and Blade affinity, cost you nothing. Your stupid assumption can bite the dust. You only find a DPH sin pesky decause you can't kill them as easily as most APS sins. It's funny because I find seekers equally as pesky, or maybe that's because most of the seekers I fight have better gear than me (r9rr +10-+12). Honestly would you rather prefer a tankier sin or r9rr for sins w/ int? Wait don't answer that, you just want to be able to kill all of us easily. Typical.

I have a feeling you're trying to give me a headache honestly. Can you make some valid points already and get off your high horse or do you want to keep this up for many more pages to go?

You've just openly admit that you're a fail DPH sin if you actually have problems with Seekers. A good DPH sin can manage their chi well and not waste it like a moron in 5 seconds (which oh, you just admit). More than I know? Oh please, says the person that can't read 20% hp restoration on Deaden Nerves. If you're a one hit on your extremely awesome DPH sin then you must be wearing Paper. Not that it's easy to even take you seriously anymore if you expect a class that works the best 1on1 to also work well in group fights. What kind of debuffs are you even referring to LOL? Unfetter, if sage, gives you 4 seconds immunity to disabling effects (also known as stuns, freezes, channelling debuffs due to a bug). Demon unfetter purifies you, but you can't cast it if you're stunned obviously (don't forget the lovely 60 second cooldown).

Since we're apparently talking about who's played what. I've been maining my seeker for as long as they've been out, and I've played both demon and sage aps and DPH sins to 100, aswell as many other classes before them since PWI came out. If you're gonna bash someone that knows better than you then I'm sorry to tell you it only makes you look like an idiot.

Second paragraph... sums it up QQ seekers have anti sin skills (finally) not fair sins can't dominate 1v1's anymore seekers need nerf QQ. Full dex versus full Str, both with GoF, sins with atk level buff. I wonder who does more damage endgame. Your stupidly childish and invalid arguments can get lost now unless you want to keep making yourself look like a bashing idiot. Go fight a real DPH sin seeing as you obviously don't know a thing about them Lol. I've killed plenty of DPH sins and I know how well they can be pesky. I don't even care about APS sins at this point as they're simply bramble food in NW and DPH sin is still the endgame way to go for PvP. Typically egoistic ending for you though. I always fight people that outgear me, sadly for you I don't happen to be a silly pleveled char that doesn't know game mechanics. Though you give off that impression quite well right now.

To answer your last question, typically. If you want to make a difference in PvP as a sin then go DPH full r9 and learn how to play. If you want to keep killing arcanes that haven't worked on their pdef yet (and probably tick from the headhunt you cast from stealth anyway LOL) then by all means go APS. Or you could just keep APS for PvE and start taking your char and it's skills seriously in PvP.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Then go DPH full r9 and learn how to play? I stopped right there. You obviously are making a lot of assumptions while I am not. Almost everyone i fight nowadays out gears me by a large margin and btw learn what kind of gear i used before you make half *** attempts to insult me. Please note I didn't say I run out of chi. It happens, but I guess you never run out of chi either, right? You don't even know me. And obviously I pay more attention to the little details, seems like ur still QQing about nirvy and "sins OP". Gimme a freakin break. I bust my hump for my gear, spending hours day and night farming this summer. You can't tell me anything. http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/5326/1pmv.png Get served. 3 peices r9.3, r9.3+10 dags w/ imcomparables and +8 g16 helm and robe. Ring +7 w/ 222 physical attack and my rank ring w/ 114 pdef engraving. Not that I owe you that, but you 'know' nothing about me. Also I play with Tsyfall a bit, but I guess he's a bad sin right?

So we're back to bragging dear that bashed me first? You're the one that made assumptions to begin with, and many of your points were wrong. I'd suggest you would learn how to keep your mouth shut if you can't back up your claims. Let me start on a few then... lol.

You pay more attention than ME, to the little details? I'd love to see you prove that with in-game mechanics right now.

QQing about Nirvy: Where DID I qq about nirvy mr knowitall? xD

Sins op: If played well, as any other class is LOL. People gotta stop trying to make sins look like the weakest lil' fish of the bunch.

So, you spent a few nights during the summer farming for your gear. Cool story? Did you assume I was r8 or something? I guess fully farmed 3r9+10 is weak gear to you.. okay then I know nothing right...?

Lastly, please don't mention Tsyfall here because I don't know if he'd want people to start thinking he's bad because of all the stuff you're saying here. Even someone as silly as me that "makes assumptions and knows nothing (LOL)" knows this Tsyfall won't start saying Deaden Nerves recovers 10% HP.... xD. Thank you, have a nice day, hopefully off your high horse this time?

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I was never on a high horse to begin with. But w/e. I don't make assumptions based off of what I think. I think based on what I see, it's called observation, it's a skill. Maybe you should learn it.

About deaden nerves, yea it is 20%, I said the wrong thing, big **** whoop. You think you can make me feel bad because of it?

As for bashing you first? "I'll have to assume you simply haven't seen a good DPH sin yet and that's why you don't find them as pesky as I do. I wish they would stop directing all the "OP" attention to Seekers just so that sins can get away with it." Ring any bells? You made an assumption and you were wrong, own up to it. Why do I even waste my time talking with people like you? Have a nice day.

It's an assumption based on what I see aswell. If you wanted people to think of you as an OP DPH sin maybe you should've started acting like one instead of playing the mad teenager. You've made Plenty of assumptions and were wrong, I'm still sticking to my "wrong assumption" because you've yet to prove anything that shows you are a SKILLED DPH sin. Then again, I wasn't even going to bother replying to your troll comments anymore. "People like you" should honestly get lost off the Seeker forums before you say more nonsense.

Misturo - Sanctuary wrote: »

Actually really difficult to choose from.

I have 103 sin and 79 seeker I play with. I made her like couple months ago (seeker) and have avoided FCC as much as I can, only did so if I ran out of quests to do, but I mainly just play on her when Im bored and I dont bother farming at that moment.

I could say seeker is fun to play with, its fun to play with their looks and make them look original as possible. Also gears are hawt, no doubt. They dont even need fashion if youre female.. Unless you just really like having fashion.

Sin's also fun. My ex main is psy but I switched her to sin when I came back from a break thanks to school and work issues, and I think Id keep sin as my main still. Shes my personal favorite, but there are many types of people. Like someone mentioned, its same as asking day or night etc.

Agreed. I find both to be quite fun to play, though I prefer DPH sin over APS sin (probably due to the fact that I've played Seeker for so long), but not enough to start maining a sin yet.

Who was that even directed at?
Learn flipping English mate? – Your post isnt exactly oozing of good English either mate.
Anyway nice contribution to this thread, you should be commended for being so helpful!

On Topic
Assassins have two options: to play either DPH or APS. At early lvl 100s you will almost certainly be building around APS gear. However if you want to competitively PvP you will probably do a lot better with DPH. Either way you may find yourself having to build two completely different gear sets to unlock all the potential of a sin. Something to consider if you are trying to decide which class you should main/play.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

And you still haven't proven that I am not skilled. See my point?b:chuckle

*Sigh* not this again... you've proven it by talking like someone that doesn't know a thing about the class they're playing, it's enough for me. I don't feel like going back and listing all the assumptions you've made about me, so do us both a favor and quit trolling now.

Medaka - Morai wrote: »

That's obvious, if Seekers had no means of absorbing damage there wouldn't be a thread like this to begin with. The actual problem is that endgame sins (full 3r9 obviously) can be quite tanky.

Since you mentioned healing spells, I assume you mean Last Stand and Blood-Thirsty Blitz. Now let me compare Last Stand with Deaden Nerves for example. You might ask yourself just why Last Stand seems a lot better right? Except the fact that you're forgetting all the CC skills sins have as opposed to seekers. Having an OP healing skill is as useless as any other such skill when you're stunned and can't cast it anyway. Yet Deaden Nerves works wonders as long as you have it activated during any kind of status. Blood-Thirsty Blitz is quite a nice healing skill assuming you have the chi to use on it. But it does require a close target, it's still risky enough to use it when it's actually needed and get through with it safely.

Quid can be easily avoided by Tidal, and most of the time ends up **** the Seeker up completely due to them having debuffs on them and Quid being in CD. Now in regards to your chi comment... I'd rather pretend it wasn't there honestly. Chi management is a skill, I'm sure you're aware of this already. Now if we don't count sage chi skill, list me all the skills seekers have that specifically say they give us chi. On the other hand our meaningful skills require chi- quite a nice combination don't you think? I'd love to see something like a sin without chi, considering they have 4 chi-gaining skills out of which, besides the stealth, one of them gives 2 sparks at the same cooldown as Master Li's Technique, another gives 150 chi at HALF that cooldown, and the last one gives 50 chi at 1/4 of it. I'm sorry but I don't think even a monkey could run out of chi on a sin that easily lol.

I'll have to assume you simply haven't seen a good DPH sin yet and that's why you don't find them as pesky as I do. I wish they would stop directing all the "OP" attention to Seekers just so that sins can get away with it.

you kinda just proved my point why skillful r9.3 sin will have an advantage over a skillful r9.3 seeker in 1vs1..stating they are both self buffed and both very skillful...tidal protection, constant sparks...constant controls

5 sparks in 5 seconds: -double spark, inner harmony, headhunt, tackling slash, throatcut, rising dragon, rib strike, spell cutter. If you were counting, 5 seconds was at the throatcut.

double spark -2
headhunt -2
throatcut -1

inner harmony +2
tackling slash +0.5
rising dragon +1.5 (demon) or 1.8 (sage)

net: -0.5 (demon) or -0.2 (sage)

Sins are both founts and destroyers of chi. The way they manage chi is like no other class. 5 sparks in 5 seconds isn't just possible, its easy, and even sometimes necessary, to kill difficult targets.