Why Nerfing Tidal is Stupid.

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  • bearishidonteven
    bearishidonteven Posts: 119 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    cleric is the only class that needs nerf

    /closethread i dont even.......
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  • juicybluca
    juicybluca Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    amps/undine/spark does work on tidal. lol
    APS was hardly something to laugh at before all these new expansion and gears came along.
    Spark? Yes I'm serious, spark is a fire defense debuff.
    Purify in 1v1 does trigger?
    20k physical resit only goes down to 18k with tangling mire? Why are you using tangling mire on a sin as a magic class?
    Yes, but that depends on the terrain. Won't get stuck as often on flat grounds. Even if a sin tele, they still lost a few seconds of damage.
    nuking skills only take 2.5 seconds actually? Sandstorm/Divine Pyro/Glacial Snare. or Nukes can be casted without channeling?

    also, wizard non crit damage = sin's crit damage, so 20% is alot. Once again, wizards can debuff as well.

    spark doesnt work on sage tidal, if that 20ks are buffed yes, self buffed they go down a lot more (35% to 55% reduction)
    u cant think to debuff a sage tidaled sin especially if u r a wizard... long channelling, debuff fails 2/3rds of the times, you are dead
  • Zsw - Dreamweaver
    Zsw - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,087 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    juicybluca wrote: »
    spark doesnt work on sage tidal, if that 20ks are buffed yes, self buffed they go down a lot more (35% to 55% reduction)
    u cant think to debuff a sage tidaled sin especially if u r a wizard... long channelling, debuff fails 2/3rds of the times, you are dead

    Errrm. Not sure if this is an english problem. Spark does work on tidal. Although you should save spark for after tidal, you can nonetheless spam undine strike on a sage tidaled sin since it cost 0 chi, virtually no cooldown and channels fast. And the 20k is self buffed of course.
    Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »
    What the hell is wrong with you people...complaining about which class sucks worse between two perfectly good PvP classes, giving excuses left and right, and ignoring the elephant in the room.

    Think hard about which class is really the worst in endgame PvP. lols...

    I'm not complaining about anything xD
    Archers are pretty terrible at 1v1. But in mass pk with support, they can be pretty devastating since they can just stay at the back and shoot people.
    Zsw -104 Sage Assassin
    TehZsw - 100 Demon Archer


    All Luck No Skillz PvPer: youtube.com/user/zsw007
  • HESOKA - Raging Tide
    HESOKA - Raging Tide Posts: 169 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    Am a demon sin, and i think sage tidal should be nerved to 60%, although Evan if it does not it still really not an issue, All class's in the game have their own "OP" buff skills.


    Cleric:

    Mana shield (30 seconds CD - lasts 20 seconds) - basically you cannot kill a cleric 2/3 of the time if you are a melee class during the 1/3 of the time of CD they can easily use genie/apoth to tank and rebuff mana shield, sleep lasts too long - and Seal is only 1 spark by which you can easily gain back in the time provided - Weapon prock - let us not talk about it.

    Veno:

    Ability to go into foxform (150 more physical res) an Endgame veno can easily kite and tank any physical class in foxform. +12 weapon will only hit them for 1ks - 4k zerk-crits, they can easily take all the oponents chi in a minut, Purge - Bewitch - Amp - Too Much Speed - A seal & imoblize for 8 SECONDS.

    Archers:

    They can emune to stuns for 15 seconds every 15 seconds seconds + 30% reduce damage taken ! in a 1v1 i would rather have that than on my maze step than tidal any day!
    Tele lefft - tele right and can easily kite away
    No chi required for Stun arrow & let us not talk about purge.

    Barbs:

    Too much HP, Crit rate can go up to 70+% every 8 seconds for 6 seconds - Thus can easily land a zerk-crit K.O

    Tiger form allow the speed to bypass kites
    Stun requires no Chi and the CD between retuning is 1 second, they will tank you and eventual purge you and 1 shot you.

    Wizards:

    "broken" genie skill which allows an easy 1 shot KO for any wizard that knows what he is doing. Purify weapon + Auto tele when attacked + Two teles can allow for an easy "Hit and run" in TW and PvP

    Seekers:

    35 def? what? almost 18 JOSD??? Ad rather have that than Tidal any day!
    Its dumb to HF, Soul burn, or debuff them.
    cannot imoblize them, thus the only way to prevent them from kiting by an assassin is a Head hunt! lasts 5 seconds 30 seconds CD!
    both magical and physical damage hits allows them to be capable of killing both AA class and HA class.

    I can go on and on but tell me your class, and am sure you can have my tidal anyday if i get one of your skills in exchange.
    Am Awesome b:victory

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  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    HESOKA - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Archers:

    They can emune to stuns for 15 seconds every 15 seconds seconds + 30% reduce damage taken ! in a 1v1 i would rather have that than on my maze step than tidal any day!

    Nope it's 12 seconds every 31 seconds once you factor out the channel and cast.
    During the channel you are very vulnerable too. It's the only anti stun I can think of with a channel, everything else is instant cast. Purify Spell anti-stun puts it to shame.
    HESOKA - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Tele lefft - tele right and can easily kite away
    Can easily kite away from what class? All melee classes have instant teleport or leaps with short cooldowns.
    HESOKA - Raging Tide wrote: »
    No chi required for Stun arrow.
    A stun that's shorter than any melee stun and lost a lot of effectiveness against purify spell casters.
    HESOKA - Raging Tide wrote: »
    let us not talk about purge.
    Actually let's talk about purge:
    - Can't proc at all with: Frost Arrow / Vicious Arrow / Serrated Arrow / Sharptooth Arrow / Blood Vow / Thunder shock / Stormrage Eagleon / Aim Low / Stun Arrow / Inferno Arrow / Whisper Shot
    - Can't purge Sin / Psychic buffs.
    - Does nothing to prevent someone from rebuffing with self buffs / Spirit of Defense
    - Has no utility at all against a target after they are purged
    - All melee classes (except Seeker?) have access to Spirit Blackhole on cheap R8r / Nirv weapons.

    I'd switch it to one of the better procs any day. Any utility role it plays I could have just switched to a heaven shatterer for.
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  • Zsw - Dreamweaver
    Zsw - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,087 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    To be honest, I'd rather have an archer with Purge to assist me than an Archer with any other proc in mass pk. Especially if I have no venos near me.
    Zsw -104 Sage Assassin
    TehZsw - 100 Demon Archer


    All Luck No Skillz PvPer: youtube.com/user/zsw007
  • DionDagger - Dreamweaver
    DionDagger - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,140 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Nope it's 12 seconds every 31 seconds once you factor out the channel and cast.
    During the channel you are very vulnerable too. It's the only anti stun I can think of with a channel, everything else is instant cast. Purify Spell anti-stun puts it to shame.


    Can easily kite away from what class? All melee classes have instant teleport or leaps with short cooldowns.


    A stun that's shorter than any melee stun and lost a lot of effectiveness against purify spell casters.


    Actually let's talk about purge:
    - Can't proc at all with: Frost Arrow / Vicious Arrow / Serrated Arrow / Sharptooth Arrow / Blood Vow / Thunder shock / Stormrage Eagleon / Aim Low / Stun Arrow / Inferno Arrow / Whisper Shot
    - Can't purge Sin / Psychic buffs.
    - Does nothing to prevent someone from rebuffing with self buffs / Spirit of Defense
    - Has no utility at all against a target after they are purged
    - All melee classes (except Seeker?) have access to Spirit Blackhole on cheap R8r / Nirv weapons.

    I'd switch it to one of the better procs any day. Any utility role it plays I could have just switched to a heaven shatterer for.

    Yes because you dont do any damage with your regular auto right? And it's not like you can't purge on QS.
  • juicybluca
    juicybluca Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Yes because you dont do any damage with your regular auto right? And it's not like you can't purge on QS.

    you forgot the limited utility of purge... once you purged your target your weapon proc has no more utility at all... as an archer...

    if you are a sin you can bow purge, switch to daggers and u haz unlimited zerks b:chuckle

    you also forgot that sage tidal prevents spirit blackhole proc (20ish% chance to proc, -66% tidal = 6,66% chance to purge gg archer r9r3 proc is nullified by a passive skill)

    and about all this:

    Cleric:

    sleep lasts too long - and Seal

    Veno:

    they can easily take all the oponents chi in a minut, Purge Amp - A seal & imoblize for 8 SECONDS.

    Archers:

    Stun arrow & let us not talk about purge.

    Barbs:


    Stun requires no Chi and the CD between retuning is 1 second, they will tank you and eventual purge you and 1 shot you.

    Wizards:

    "broken" genie skill which allows an easy 1 shot KO for any wizard that knows what he is doing.

    Seekers:

    Its dumb to HF, Soul burn, or debuff them. (qpq)

    ^all this is dodged by Sage Tidal passive skill b:victory

    you mean its dumb to hf soulburn or debuff a sage tidaled sin b:shocked
  • PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver
    PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,507 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    juicybluca wrote: »
    Seekers:

    Its dumb to HF, Soul burn, or debuff them. (qpq)

    ^all this is dodged by Sage Tidal passive skill b:victory

    you mean its dumb to hf soulburn or debuff a sage tidaled sin b:shocked

    it is dumb because they'll throw it back to you.
    against my better judgement, here is a tip: pvp isn't about doing something that will always succeed. you only see tidal as OP because in your mind debuffing a tidaled sin will always fail; which is the same with saying that evasion is OP because you can miss a hit.

    tsy has a marvellous analysis of high-end pvp which is what the game should have been about: a strategic battle, not a sure-fire combo to kill
    you only purge once #yopo
  • juicybluca
    juicybluca Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    it is dumb because they'll throw it back to you.
    against my better judgement, here is a tip: pvp isn't about doing something that will always succeed. you only see tidal as OP because in your mind debuffing a tidaled sin will always fail; which is the same with saying that evasion is OP because you can miss a hit.

    tsy has a marvellous analysis of high-end pvp which is what the game should have been about: a strategic battle, not a sure-fire combo to kill

    they cant throw it back to you if you have sage tidal...

    a strategic battle where one side has 66% chance to evade kinda almost every way to lose that battle?
    whats the strategy besides hope in that 33% luck...

    fire combo has really nice counters (soul of fire mag def charm faith elemental shell)....as qpq (faith heart of steel etch)... whats the counter to sage tidal? whats the counter to zerkcrits? b:cry
  • PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver
    PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,507 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    juicybluca wrote: »
    blah blah blah I only see defeat and assume that 66% chance to evade debuffs for 60/90sec => autowin

    fixed. people have written detailed instructions on what do do against tidal but all you want is a magic button to remove it.
    you only purge once #yopo
  • Zsw - Dreamweaver
    Zsw - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,087 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    juicybluca wrote: »
    whats the counter to sage tidal? whats the counter to zerkcrits? b:cry

    Read the first post...
    Zsw -104 Sage Assassin
    TehZsw - 100 Demon Archer


    All Luck No Skillz PvPer: youtube.com/user/zsw007
  • DionDagger - Dreamweaver
    DionDagger - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,140 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    it is dumb because they'll throw it back to you.
    against my better judgement, here is a tip: pvp isn't about doing something that will always succeed. you only see tidal as OP because in your mind debuffing a tidaled sin will always fail; which is the same with saying that evasion is OP because you can miss a hit.

    tsy has a marvellous analysis of high-end pvp which is what the game should have been about: a strategic battle, not a sure-fire combo to kill

    Most of the time you can out DD a sin to death if they can't stick to you anyway. Its like purify proc casters, I dont bother CCing them, I do enough damage so they are forced to not rely on purify, eventually killing them if they thing they can tank my damage, because at some piont I will zerk crit on a high damage skill. GG.
  • juicybluca
    juicybluca Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Most of the time you can out DD a sin to death if they can't stick to you anyway. Its like purify proc casters, I dont bother CCing them, I do enough damage so they are forced to not rely on purify, eventually killing them if they thing they can tank my damage, because at some piont I will zerk crit on a high damage skill. GG.

    who does even rely on purify in 1on1?

    zerk with 60% crit that turns into 90% with power dash is just op
  • PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver
    PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,507 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    juicybluca wrote: »
    who does even rely on purify in 1on1?

    zerk with 60% crit that turns into 90% with power dash is just op

    lets all punch each other, that would be fair.
    you are the "omg no pots no heals no stuns no stealth no blah blahblhah in duels" type arent you
    you only purge once #yopo
  • juicybluca
    juicybluca Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    lets all punch each other, that would be fair.
    you are the "omg no pots no heals no stuns no stealth no blah blahblhah in duels" type arent you

    just no stealth, the rest is fine b:chuckle

    another point is that sin have those fast\no channelling skills that are able to outdph heavy casters
  • PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver
    PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,507 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    juicybluca wrote: »
    another point is that sin have those fast\no channelling skills that are able to outdph heavy casters

    you use that dph word, I don't think you know what it means
    you only purge once #yopo
  • G_tar_God - Dreamweaver
    G_tar_God - Dreamweaver Posts: 92 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    I think most ppl are forgettin one thing.....100% stuns yo! Show me an archer whos Stunnin arrow or Aim low always lands -.- And Lol at the guy sayin archers have the highest phys damage endgame. Never seen an archer 1 shot zerk crit for 20k+ on another r9 3rd cast player xD

    I think the main problem with sins isnt each skill individually, it's the fact they have all those skills in the one class. Stealth, stuns, anti-stuns, deaden, tidal, focused, run boost, zerk dags, chill, lots of chi, jumps....etc. Ppl might say "but other classes have some of those too!" Lol 6 secs tidal thats at like 20% or a deaden's that have timers all over it.
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  • juicybluca
    juicybluca Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    you use that dph word, I don't think you know what it means

    bleh its really hard to speak with a monkey that tries hard to make his class appear weak...


    2spark mires subsea earthen from stealth, considered u are unaware of the sin till mire-subsea comes in.... in 1.8 seconds you ll get hitted twice 5 digits anyclass
    now find me another class that in 1.8 seconds throws the same load of damage..

    also a zerkcrit would be subsea oneshot

    and cept barbs all the other classes doesnt have deaden nerves. b:bye
  • PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver
    PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,507 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    juicybluca wrote: »
    bleh its really hard to speak with a monkey that tries hard to make his class appear weak...


    2spark mires subsea earthen from stealth, considered u are unaware of the sin till mire-subsea comes in.... in 1.8 seconds you ll get hitted twice 5 digits anyclass
    now find me another class that in 1.8 seconds throws the same load of damage..

    also a zerkcrit would be subsea oneshot

    and cept barbs all the other classes doesnt have deaden nerves. b:bye

    funny that it's not even my class. really hard to speak with a monkey that cannot understand the difference between dph and dps.
    you only purge once #yopo
  • juicybluca
    juicybluca Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    funny that it's not even my class. really hard to speak with a monkey that cannot understand the difference between dph and dps.

    yea because 2hitting 30k-40k damage in 1.8 seconds its totally dps
  • PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver
    PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,507 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    juicybluca wrote: »
    yea because 2hitting 30k-40k damage in 1.8 seconds its totally dps

    so 15k-20k per hit?
    first one triggers pdef charm, ticks charm, auto-pot equips new charm, second hit also deals 7.5k-10k. and now it's time to oneshot the fish.

    ofc now you'll got "derpp if he zerkcrits" in which I say deal with it. a lot of stuff may trigger on the first hit too, e.g. SoS.
    you only purge once #yopo
  • DionDagger - Dreamweaver
    DionDagger - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,140 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    juicybluca wrote: »
    bleh its really hard to speak with a monkey that tries hard to make his class appear weak...


    2spark mires subsea earthen from stealth, considered u are unaware of the sin till mire-subsea comes in.... in 1.8 seconds you ll get hitted twice 5 digits anyclass
    now find me another class that in 1.8 seconds throws the same load of damage..

    also a zerkcrit would be subsea oneshot

    and cept barbs all the other classes doesnt have deaden nerves. b:bye

    Sorry but most caster do 4-5 digits on every attack if we talking average gear opponents.b:chuckle
  • juicybluca
    juicybluca Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Sorry but most caster do 4-5 digits on every attack if we talking average gear opponents.b:chuckle

    just no.
    magic def charms, sage tidal... how do you get hitted 5digits?

    also average cast time of a caster "nuke" is 5 secs ?
  • opkossy
    opkossy Posts: 11,177 Community Moderator
    edited September 2013
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    juicybluca wrote: »
    just no.
    magic def charms, sage tidal

    Stopped reading there as sage tidal has absolutely nothing to do with how much an endgame caster will hit you for.

    I've seen a cleric in first cast R9 with +7 (aka nowhere near endgame) drop large groups of people consistently via Zooming Thunder Potion -> tempest with nothing they can do about it in time to react. You want to claim magic def charms against caster damage yet conveniently ignored the point of pdef charms against sins in what was posted above, yet expect to be taken seriously? Fact is an APS style sin won't drop pretty much anyone who has decent gear/skills while basically making themselves 1-shots. Meanwhile a DPH style sin is the same level of threat as any other class utilizing DPH... assuming you have the skills to play well enough to fight them.
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  • juicybluca
    juicybluca Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    OPKossy wrote: »
    Stopped reading there as sage tidal has absolutely nothing to do with how much an endgame caster will hit you for.

    I've seen a cleric in first cast R9 with +7 (aka nowhere near endgame) drop large groups of people consistently via Zooming Thunder Potion -> tempest with nothing they can do about it in time to react. You want to claim magic def charms against caster damage yet conveniently ignored the point of pdef charms against sins in what was posted above, yet expect to be taken seriously? Fact is an APS style sin won't drop pretty much anyone who has decent gear/skills while basically making themselves 1-shots. Meanwhile a DPH style sin is the same level of threat as any other class utilizing DPH... assuming you have the skills to play well enough to fight them.

    undine or spark doesnt work on a tidaled one, same thing for veno amps debuffs, metal debuffs cleric seals etch

    getting a nuke in 5 seconds and getting 2 nukes in 1.8 give you also a completely different time to react on def charms

    the point is not the damage itself, the point is that all the other classes are not 2/3 evading "every negative status"...

    while a sin can debuff with subsea mires etch to land that kind of dph, the opponent wont have the chance to debuff him back to hit him with the same amount of dph
  • opkossy
    opkossy Posts: 11,177 Community Moderator
    edited September 2013
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    juicybluca wrote: »
    undine or spark doesnt work on a tidaled one, same thing for veno amps debuffs, metal debuffs cleric seals etch
    ... You realize how absolutely wrong you are, and how stupid that sounds right? That's like saying damage doesn't work on a sin in focused mind. You can still get debuffs through, it's just a chance to be evaded. However if people have the same mindset as you and don't even try then that's just a bonus for the sins who don't have to worry about defense at all.

    And you still haven't shown what tidal has to do with... you know... dealing damage? Pretty sure if I run out of safe zone on a sin in TT99+5 tidal is not gonna stop the random R9 3rd cast +10 wiz from 1-shotting me with a 15k gush crit.
    getting a nuke in 5 seconds and getting 2 nukes in 1.8 give you also a completely different time to react on def charms
    Zooming Thunder Potions. Your argument is invalid. And this is without taking into account other ways to reduce channeling time.
    the point is not the damage itself, the point is that all the other classes are not 2/3 evading "every negative status"...
    And having a CHANCE to evade negative status ailments does what exactly for a sin that gets hit by a crit from a caster that kills them or gets ganked by 5 people the instant s/he leaves stealth and dies to focus fire and DAMAGE even without the need of the debuffs... though with the usual ganks sins get the instant they leave stealth some debuffs can and will get through unless people are too stupid to even try).
    while a sin can debuff with subsea mires etch to land that kind of dph, the opponent wont have the chance to debuff him back to hit him with the same amount of dph
    Yep. The sin can waste his spark and genie so that their opponent can laugh and (insert one of many counters or plain kiting here) while the opponent is STILL quite capable of dealing high damage to the sin. Oh and while we're on that subject, DPH has always been what casters are stronger at. The sin needs to debuff or get lucky more than the caster does because of trying to compete while having a lower base damage to begin with. And when tidal gets bypassed (any smart player can and will try to debuff even during tidal and when it happens sin is as screwed as anyone else who gets debuffed) what then?




    From your posts, you sound like someone who has never played a sin and doesn't have the skills to fight one in endgame PvP. The fact of the matter is all the pros already know that, while tidal is a powerful buff, it is by no means this sort of ultimate defense that makes a sin unkillable. People such as yourself who claim it is, on the other hand, need to get more experience and skill. Or, better yet, play a sage sin for yourself, go seek out opponents of a similar gear level, and see the weaknesses and strengths of the skill for yourself.
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  • juicybluca
    juicybluca Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    OPKossy wrote: »
    ... You realize how absolutely wrong you are, and how stupid that sounds right? That's like saying damage doesn't work on a sin in focused mind. You can still get debuffs through, it's just a chance to be evaded. However if people have the same mindset as you and don't even try then that's just a bonus for the sins who don't have to worry about defense at all.

    And you still haven't shown what tidal has to do with... you know... dealing damage? Pretty sure if I run out of safe zone on a sin in TT99+5 tidal is not gonna stop the random R9 3rd cast +10 wiz from 1-shotting me with a 15k gush crit.


    Zooming Thunder Potions. Your argument is invalid. And this is without taking into account other ways to reduce channeling time.


    And having a CHANCE to evade negative status ailments does what exactly for a sin that gets hit by a crit from a caster that kills them or gets ganked by 5 people the instant s/he leaves stealth and dies to focus fire and DAMAGE even without the need of the debuffs... though with the usual ganks sins get the instant they leave stealth some debuffs can and will get through unless people are too stupid to even try).


    Yep. The sin can waste his spark and genie so that their opponent can laugh and (insert one of many counters or plain kiting here) while the opponent is STILL quite capable of dealing high damage to the sin. Oh and while we're on that subject, DPH has always been what casters are stronger at. The sin needs to debuff or get lucky more than the caster does because of trying to compete while having a lower base damage to begin with. And when tidal gets bypassed (any smart player can and will try to debuff even during tidal and when it happens sin is as screwed as anyone else who gets debuffed) what then?




    From your posts, you sound like someone who has never played a sin and doesn't have the skills to fight one in endgame PvP. The fact of the matter is all the pros already know that, while tidal is a powerful buff, it is by no means this sort of ultimate defense that makes a sin unkillable. People such as yourself who claim it is, on the other hand, need to get more experience and skill. Or, better yet, play a sage sin for yourself, go seek out opponents of a similar gear level, and see the weaknesses and strengths of the skill for yourself.

    aye another one that puts it on the personal... seems i hitted the spot once again...
    and we are talking about equal geared not tt99 vs r9r3 -.-

    are you really suggesting to deplete your apothecary to face a passive skill? oooh this is not OP at all

    u r trying to make it appear as that CHANCE TO EVADE debuffs its something that rarely happens...
    but its 66% chance man, this is plain statistics... if you try to debuff it most likely wont work in the single try, then it most likely wont work the second try and then it will work the third try...
    ok how many classes can spam their debuffs this way? maybe just undine strike? tho will the sin just stand afk or will he be CCing like he is supposed to do and while you are trying to merely debuff you get CCed with skills that actually deal a pretty large amount of damage aswell?

    what does work on sin is AA gank.
    but how do a gank work in 1on1? (rethorical)

    i faced, died and killed equal geared sage tidaled sins in 1on1 in a 2:1 ratio,

    just: sage tidal, zerk + 60% crit rate, deaden nerves, purge, 2x forced stealth, unlimited chi, unlimited CCs, amps, tele\telestun, antistun + movement speed skills, free attack level buff... in the same class?
    i can say that sin class has technically every feature of the game (it can heal itself too but its another thing)... find me any another class that has all this features...

    this is why this class is too complete, hard to counter\deal with, and plain OP and at least SAGE TIDAL HAS TO BE NERFED
  • PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver
    PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,507 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    juicybluca wrote: »
    i faced, died and killed equal geared sage tidaled sins in 1on1 in a 2:1 ratio,

    with all classes?
    you only purge once #yopo
  • juicybluca
    juicybluca Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    with all classes?

    wat?
    no tho, i see all classes kinda struggling on sage sins

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