im a bit confused

Viktorian - Archosaur · August 2013

about the best endgame shards for a bm.
were talking wat to put in rrr9 armor and weapon.
originally i thought primevals/savants were best for armor however walpurga(?) (hope im spelling that right, if not im sorry) wrote in an earlier thread how JoSDs were better? any1 mind elaborating? btw PLZ PLZ PLZ dont use math cuz im horrible at it

Onatop - Lost City · August 2013

Josd is the best, end of story. If u can afford it, go for it. If not Vit stones all the way.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · August 2013

Mixed opinions on this.

Sapphires give the most mdef, end of story.
Between Vit and JoSD, JoSD is slightly better against magic attacks and Vit is slightly better against physical attacks for BMs because it gives both a large increase in pdef and hp.

I personally believe vit stones are the better endgame shard because when you consider endgame opponents to have 135+ attack levels vs the average endgame BM being around 50 def levels with o'malleys, the 48 def levels of full JoSD go to reducing your opponents attack about 37%.

On the other hand, 240 vit gives 3.78k hp (roughly 25%) and can increase your defenses 10-20% depending on gear. Hard to say if this is more than or less than the JoSDs since we don't know the opponents gear and we have to consider all 10 classes and both mag and physical attack but imo most the time the combo of hp and defense that vit gives is greater than reducing the opponents attack a little, since defense levels are only a fraction of attack levels nowadays. Def levels work great in PvE though, where the mobs have 0 attack levels so the full def level value is applied.

The other thing to remember is defense levels work on damage thats leftover ie if they hit you for 10k and you reduce it 80% then 2k damage gets through and your defense levels work on that. That means the greater your initial reduction from gear defenses the less work your def levels are doing. For instance, if I wanted to only take 1.5k damage and I had the numbers I just gave I could either use about 35 def levels to reduce the 2k down to 1.5k damage or I could just work on my gear defenses getting them to 85% reduction. Both would work out to about the same. T
The higher your defenses, the less impact def levels have, so I prefer raising my defense.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver · August 2013

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

The other thing to remember is defense levels work on damage thats leftover ie if they hit you for 10k and you reduce it 80% then 2k damage gets through and your defense levels work on that. That means the greater your initial reduction from gear defenses the less work your def levels are doing. For instance, if I wanted to only take 1.5k damage and I had the numbers I just gave I could either use about 35 def levels to reduce the 2k down to 1.5k damage or I could just work on my gear defenses getting them to 85% reduction. Both would work out to about the same. T
The higher your defenses, the less impact def levels have, so I prefer raising my defense.

uum what?

dmg_taken = raw_dmg * def_lvl_reduction * defense_reduction = raw_dmg * def_lvl_reduction * defense_reduction

so if you take 100 dmg, and have a defence reduction of 50% and a def lvl reduction of 25% you end up with 100 * 0,5 * 0,75 = 37.5 dmg; you can say that def lvls cut 25 dmg and then defense cut 37.5 dmg or that defence cut 50 dmg and then def lvls 12.5 dmg but it hardly makes sense as there is no "first" or "last".

The only thing you can to do optimise it math-wise is to make your def lvl reduction equal to your defence reduction since x^2 > (x-z)(x+z). But it's not like the costs for def lvl/defense are equal...

Morridune - Raging Tide · August 2013

just go 50/50 josd and vit then ur *** is covered b:chuckle

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · August 2013

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

uum what?

dmg_taken = raw_dmg * def_lvl_reduction * defense_reduction = raw_dmg * def_lvl_reduction * defense_reduction

so if you take 100 dmg, and have a defence reduction of 50% and a def lvl reduction of 25% you end up with 100 * 0,5 * 0,75 = 37.5 dmg; you can say that def lvls cut 25 dmg and then defense cut 37.5 dmg or that defence cut 50 dmg and then def lvls 12.5 dmg but it hardly makes sense as there is no "first" or "last".

The only thing you can to do optimise it math-wise is to make your def lvl reduction equal to your defence reduction since x^2 > (x-z)(x+z). But it's not like the costs for def lvl/defense are equal...

Agreed. I explained it poorly. What I meant was the working value since JoSDs are applied after def reduction and after they first go towards canceling out opponent attack levels means they do less "work" the better your defenses are in the first place. They're great for LAs who often only have 50-70% def reduction and so the working load of JoSD is based on the 30-50% leftover. For BMs the working load of a JoSD is reducing whats leftover of the 10-15% that defenses didn't already reduce.

Onatop - Lost City · August 2013

U guyz for forgetting the case when u're amped (poison, dragon, etc) JOSD does more to reduce damage that the rest of those shards. To be honest I believe a mix of JOSD, VIT, and sapphire gemz might be a better combination, but I have no idea how to mix those, nor do i have the money xD

Loshon - Archosaur · August 2013

shabby turquoise shards are superior for bms in every way to vit stones, josd, diety, etc, etc.

for weapon, I'd recommend sapphire shabbies.

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I'm lying. you should take the advice of the above posters.

_Nottunyx_ - Heavens Tear · August 2013

full deity bm pwns everything. b:cool

Cantabrum - Archosaur · August 2013

yes please go full deity like the dude up me so youget 1-2 shots by any magic class that move b:surrender
the only that can wear dots- deity are psy archers and sins

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · August 2013

Cantabrum - Archosaur wrote: »

yes please go full deity like the dude up me so youget 1-2 shots by any magic class that move b:surrender
the only that can wear dots- deity are psy archers and sins

Magic classes can still 1 shot a +12 full JoSD/vit BM in many situations, too. Since purify proc took away our ability to nail down and build sequences and setups on casters they're also very hard to finish. A full Deity build would have a much easier time finishing a caster then a full vit/JoSD BM. Then again, they'd be squishier too.

In 1v1 I don't think Deity stones are a problem since we have marrows, large hp pools, and the natural need to gear swap. But in mass pvp our aoe stuns, red sprints, and giant flaming dragons of HF make us very noticable in group pk and for that you'll want more defense. You can't marrow against everyone at once, and much of your effectiveness depends on staying alive long enough to store up chi.

A deity build would be like a sin or archer in pvp: Great chance you'll kill them before they knew what happened, equally great chance you'll get squished.

Since I have 129 attack levels but only 53 def levels, I'd say JoSD or vit stones are gonna go farther than Deities but I wouldn't really say they're a bad option. Alot of pkers like to go full attack so they win roughly half their fights then trash talk how they hit you for xx amount even though they're also a one shot.

Morridune - Raging Tide · August 2013

f:shockf:shockf:shock people trash talk in pk

QontroL - Sanctuary · August 2013

I`m afraid u cant do math on this one

JOSD is a very flawed shard because it gets completely bypassed by many skills....

The 1 and only thing that will decide whether JOSD is better than Vit stones is how and if your opponent will counter your JOSD.

All servers are very small, arguably somewhat dead...every single person that wants to PvP somewhat seriously will know you are full JOSD if you are. If they use this knowledge to counter you, you're screwed, if they dont you're golden.

The only question you need to answer when it comes down to JOSD vs Vit Stones is simple:

Do my opponents have a clue what they are doing?

(answer is usually no so I will suggest JOSDs or at least mix)

My response is based off the assumption ur just theorycrafting...

if you are actually planning on spending this much money on your gear my ultimate suggestion is you use flawless citrines.

Refines severely outclass shards in cost-efficiency. (especially on heavy armor)

goin from +8 to +10 will cost u 60m which will give you an extra 632 hp

I dont know the prices of 11* orbs on your server but 1 orb will give u an xtra 456 hp

for 12* its 578 hp

so personally Id keep the flawless citrine in your armor untill ur full +11 since they give 40 hp at the cost of 140k ^^ that vitstone will only give u 110 xtra hp at the cost of 40m ^^

Peace b:bye

im a bit confused

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