Evaluate the sticky posts and guides
Comments
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I don't think anyone wants more sticky guides or replacements. From the start most were chock full of misleading information, and now they're out-dated on top of it.
For what purpose would you leave up so much misleading information? Are moderators told to only sticky threads that promote Boutique items and other wasteful resources? Told to never take a sticky down unless it's replaced? It's grimey to leave them; like it's grimey to leave Arcane Book: Pets in the Boutique. It's disrespectful to your customers.
There is: The wiki has a lot of out-dated and incomplete information. A lot of it is copied from obsolete guides and uses names from different versions of the game (same as the stickies). Some of the information there is just personal thoughts that have no place in a guide or resource of information. With more traffic and awareness it might get the needed attention.
When someone posts nonsense like: you need hp charm, barb, apoth, or FB, HH, etc, we can swiftly correct it. I don't think anyone wants to read through pages of replies to see how bad the sticky guides actually are.
There's many useful posts that should have been stickied that haven't been. Because of this we have repeated discussions of pure mag vs vit vs LA vs HA. Despite pures winning every argument about cost and effectiveness: we still get those repeated debates.
I'm blaming the people in charge of sticky and unsticky for all those Lvl 100+ 7.x MP clerics that can't keep an S3 +10 wiz alive in Rebirth, well geared tanks in Warsong, etc. The stickies destroy the game by creating so many horrible players who've wasted resources.
Its not nonsence because barbs are the best tanks in perfect world b:cool
If you get a barb for your rebirth he will keep you alive b:nosebleed0 -
Haila - Sanctuary wrote: »Its not nonsence because barbs are the best tanks in perfect world b:cool
If you get a barb for your rebirth he will keep you alive b:nosebleed
If I have to pot anyway: I'd rather have another good dd than a cleric. Barbs before Stomp of the King sucked at AoE aggro, and less than one in 20 is getting any aggro from my wiz. I play barb also so I know your point is invalid. I've had to pot on that toon as well. There are many things I can tank on Mystic better. You and the potatohead troll are going off topic.Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.0 -
If I have to pot anyway: I'd rather have another good dd than a cleric. Barbs before Stomp of the King sucked at AoE aggro, and less than one in 20 is getting any aggro from my wiz. I play barb also so I know your point is invalid. I've had to pot on that toon as well. There are many things I can tank on Mystic better. You and the potatohead troll are going off topic.
Off topic or not, what can your mystic tank better, it cant even hold aggro lol
And that too greedy to pot is a rediculous issue also0 -
no one mentioned my sin guide
Hmm, I guess I could redo some of the existing threads in the sin section when I get the time. Or get bribed with a cookie.0 -
^ Best post in the entire thread so far.I never said they aren't out-dated. I'm just highly sceptical about any of the current forum posters making a guide that doesn't scare everybody away with a "minimum stats for your rank gear and put up your shop to make 10mil+ profit a day so you can get r999 +10". Todays criteria of a guide is only "efficiency" and it's pushed to ridiculous proportions as we saw with aps calculations overflowding the forums. Just like the vit point "issue" on magic attack when G15 nirvana is a cheap weapon.
Been here since end 2008 regularly. The amount of up-to-date nonsense is way bigger and more harmfull then the out-dated parts in the old guides.
And well, this post was already started on the BM forums a while back. Lead to some new guides, mainly TheDan's guide. But nobody seems capable of abording the starter questions like gear, stat points and where to spend spirit first. At least not in an open impartial way that actually concerns the players that actually would read a guide.
The problem with posting guides in this community is that nobody can form a consensus on what's a reasonable way to play anymore. The closest thing you have to a majority (which in the end is really just a vocal minority) is the whole "efficiency" camp that you mention. Any guide which doesn't adhere to that gospel is giong to be ripped apart by those who do adhere to it... tweakz being a prominent example.
But you know what? I'm glad we're having this discussion. This is actually long overdue. We need to have a group of people who are willing to write guides that endorse a playstyle other than perfectionism. I'd be glad to write or help write one if anyone's interested. A "casual player's guide to the modern endgame" might be a priority here.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yes, I'm still a stubborn holdout in favor of the old game. Haters gonna hate. ;]
Other Active Characters:
LigerKing (Barb), Girasole (BM), Shamsheer (Sin), ArborSoul (Mystic).0 -
oVenusArmanio wrote: »This is one of the biggest issues. Nobody is writing guides anymore period, let alone ones that help people complete early game and take into account the vast differences in budget, play time, access to a computer capable of letting them merch, faction, etc that a new player will encounter.
This reminds me to get back at writing that beginner's guide now that 2x is over...zzzz...[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"subtraction has the butt of an angel" - Paulrogers
I
Subtraction.
/blatant sig copy is blatant
105/105/105 obtained! b:cute0 -
Yeah; trying to remember what the game was like at level 30 while confused is hard.
Still, tried my best.0 -
Yes many stickies are out-dated and to some points just obsolete.
However, the stickies are mainly guides for newer players. The old guides, even if out-dated, are way more open-minded and friendly then anything that is produced recently. From that point of view, they shouldn't be replaced, as that would only scare people away and lead to pure hypothetical arguing between old players. I don't think anyone these days is capable to write a decent guide for the newer players involving the lower lvls.
I remember the BM forums did an attempt. TheDan made a guide, which was nice and all, but totally focussed on end-game pvp. Todays view is mainly "must do this or you suck" and the demonstration is often just math showing R999 is of better quality then any non-rank gear. The OP of this thread is a perfect example this. Just above, we find yet again the ridiculous statement on 50ish vit points massively gimping magic attack that is way way way higher then it ever was before with current gear and now all the sudden became insufficient to heal a player that can already solo the exposed pve content.
The old guides have the merit, at least most of them, to not just announce a single truth that should be followed and treat the basic questions most players these days don't even think about anymore.
+1 sadly most of todys are power hungry wolfs who only see what they wish to see and any diff path is horrible
i do not remember ppl being this harsh in the past tho it should not be a suprise0 -
Todays view is mainly "must do this or you suck" and the demonstration is often just math showing R999 is of better quality then any non-rank gear.
The OP doesn't have any R9 gear. It's lame attacks like this that proponents of putting points in vit resort to. -Or taking some piddly amount and comparing and then saying 'ah-ha'.
The harvest from guides that promote vit isn't a crop of +10-12's with 50-100 vit: it's a bunch of sub 5k hp 7.xK mp +0-3 weapon bare minimalists with an ignorant attitude they copped from the forum guides and ignorant proponents.
If a guide is to include other builds; perhaps minimal acceptable matk per level should be incorporated into the guide. -Do the vit proponents have an issue with that?0 -
I dunno, I never really read forum build guides, even when I was new to the game.
Whenever anyone asks me what to do, I just say put enough str/dex/mag into your build to be able to use the armor/weapon you want, then use the rest of your points however they want to use them... always reminding them how str/dex/mag/vit will effect the class they're asking me about. I don't much like how a lot of people only want certain classes built one way, and completely dismiss anything else. If we weren't meant to customize our stats, we would just gain static points as we go up in levels depending on what class we're playing.
I figure, unless someone makes a new guide, and one that isn't closed minded to variations on a theme, there's no reason to unsticky old guides. Once people get in a faction or at least play for a few months they usually ask someone who plays the classes they play anyway for advise, which sometimes is better anyway as long as the person they're asking isn't closed minded.0 -
I saw sticky guide and I can say, that some statements there are just ... useless to me.AsimM - Raging Tide wrote: »Chapter 4: Player vs Environment (PvE) and Player vs Player (PvP)
...Levels 61-80
1) Do Twilight Temple runs for better gear
2) Do Bounty Hunter runs
3) Do training Frostcovered City runs with high level friends (If any).Levels 81-100
1) Do Frostcovered City runs with hyper exp stones, which multiply the amount of exp received for an amount of time.
2) Do Bounty Hunter quests
3) Do Twilight Temple runs for better gear.
...
If my aim is to play this game, then I not need "Frostcovered City runs with hyper exp stones".
Also some quests not mentioned above: World Quest give some experience daily, for example.
About Twilight Temple runs ... I was in Twilight Temple once only (long ago and at another character), got 1 mirage from it and don't want to be there yet once.0 -
The OP doesn't have any R9 gear. It's lame attacks like this that proponents of putting points in vit resort to. -Or taking some piddly amount and comparing and then saying 'ah-ha'.
The harvest from guides that promote vit isn't a crop of +10-12's with 50-100 vit: it's a bunch of sub 5k hp 7.xK mp +0-3 weapon bare minimalists with an ignorant attitude they copped from the forum guides and ignorant proponents.
If a guide is to include other builds; perhaps minimal acceptable matk per level should be incorporated into the guide. -Do the vit proponents have an issue with that?
Another classic tweaks post. Horrible attitude... but a damn good idea.
I already slapped in pdef/hp advisories for each level range - but I honstly don't remember what my magic attack was at each level. I've put in some sugegsted weapons to aim for (TT60, wheel of fate) - do you have numbers for each range I can put in; or shall I just resort to pwdb? (And if so, go for what - the quest glaive for 40, TT70+3 for 70, TT99+5 for 99?)0 -
Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »Another classic tweaks post. Horrible attitude... but a damn good idea.
I already slapped in pdef/hp advisories for each level range - but I honstly don't remember what my magic attack was at each level. I've put in some sugegsted weapons to aim for (TT60, wheel of fate) - do you have numbers for each range I can put in; or shall I just resort to pwdb? (And if so, go for what - the quest glaive for 40, TT70+3 for 70, TT99+5 for 99?)
I can recommend pwcalc.com to calculate magic attack. It is independent from the class of the caster as I know, but it is dependent from the build (Arcane, Light) and used weapon.0 -
If the person's going to stick at lvl99 for a while then yes but otherwise they might as well skip TT99 and go directly for lvl100 and make Nirvana weapon (unless they choose lunar path in which case they should have a lunar weapon since lvl95).
FCC weapon is about the best choice for lvl85 and I'd probably keep it until lvl95 and switch over to lunar. Otherwise TT90 to be made into TT99 and Nirvana perhaps. If R9 is considered, they could go with R8 weapon/gear at a low/mid refine (+5) until they get r9 armor/weapon. If farming R9 takes too long though, G16 Nirvana is still the better choice (skipping r8).[SIGPIC]http://i.imgur.com/MtwcqjL.png[/SIGPIC]
★ Venomancer videos - tinyurl.com/k6ppkw4 ★ Desdi - Demon ♪ Wyvelin - Sage ★0 -
The OP doesn't have any R9 gear. It's lame attacks like this that proponents of putting points in vit resort to. -Or taking some piddly amount and comparing and then saying 'ah-ha'.
The harvest from guides that promote vit isn't a crop of +10-12's with 50-100 vit: it's a bunch of sub 5k hp 7.xK mp +0-3 weapon bare minimalists with an ignorant attitude they copped from the forum guides and ignorant proponents.
If a guide is to include other builds; perhaps minimal acceptable matk per level should be incorporated into the guide. -Do the vit proponents have an issue with that?
Who says the 7k mp's followed a guide, did u ask them XD ?
When they have 10k+ mp you cry about their HP b:nosebleed0
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