Wizard Usage? Hmm

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

OMG, Hold your horses people!!
lets go back to the original question of the OP:



The answer is yes and no.

The answer is no. Period.

Will a faction TAKE at top geared wizard? Sure. Will they LOOK for one, lament the fact that they don't have one, cry a river if one doesn't show up for tw?

No.

No.

No.

Will they do all this if a top geared archer doesn't show up? Psychic? Cleric? Barb? Seeker? Ok, there are so many of them now its possible they wouldn't, but as for the others?

Yes.

Yes

Yes

Yes

If you like playing a class that takes a lot more money to play and your left to hop around 1 vs 1 against people until you can hit them with your genie and they are stupid enough to leave nothing to defend against it, all while being EASILY killed by an unseen archer in group pvp while you try to set up that one trick shot that you have? Then wizard is your class.

Otherwise, no.

no

no

no

mynameiswizy wrote: »

the only thing that I still love about Wiz . . . I can be like this "even I play Wiz, I can beat you and your class! LMAO"
thats work a bit maybe. (with my gear right now, and that is a good at trolling)

true - I can't tell you the number of people that can gank me in tw or nw that come up to me and challenge me for 1 vs 1, sometimes in better gear but often in WORSE gear, and end up losing. They think they get the kill in TW/NW when im getting hit by 6 rrr9 arrows for like 4k each, while their little bm axes are hitting me for 2.

But that really just proves my point also. Noone is afraid of a wizard EXPRESSLY BECAUSE they are the easiest class to take down in group pvp. By far. And the trade off for that? You get to try to isolate 1 target to do the hokey pokey genie spark combo when their genie is on cooldown?

no

thank

you

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Draw your conclusions about how much worth this class is and if you want to actually invest the time and effort to be at the top. Because really, if you're not at the highest level when it comes to gear your skill in playing a wizard really does not matter.

THIS is all I have ever said. And for this reason alone wizard is the absolute worst class in todays game. Even with all his gear and his 16k hp unbuffed, adolt has to hop around like an idiot trying to hit someone with his genie to get a kill - because that's the only way to do it now against any other class with gear equal to his.

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

Why, then, would he disappear after pledging to quit the game only to reappear once he had top gear?

And if he knew what he was talking about, and had all the skill you attribute to him, why the need for all the gear? Surely, his "skill" would allow him to be a factor with just +10 armor and +12 weapon? Right? With just half jade and half garnet?

But no, his type only comes along to say how "skilled" he is when he has top gear. And your type are foolish enough to listen to them as though they didn't.

i
j
s

from ursa explaining, that is HOW Wiz can be called a wiz.
if u got the top gear vs top gear class, there, you play your wiz.

In that situation they have experienced it already.
I dont see a reason why not listen to them.
and
just search all their posts on this forum, and you will see why.
b:chuckle

Chuck_smith - Sanctuary wrote: »

I join squads with my wiz in pve and there is np. I do not see how they cannot run TT/lunar/etc.

it is not about 'yes I can do with my wiz' 'no you can't do it with wiz'
I don't see any problem with my wiz for PvE too.
lol.
it is not it.

But the reason why people choosing another class instead of us in PvE in the most cases.
its the matter of 'How valueable the Class is, compared to another class'.

I tend to have no issues (except on random occasions) finding squads for instances on my wizard. Especially gv and warsong, and ofc now the new SoT. People ask me to go, it's fun to play a wizzy and see all of the big numbers. Again still more of a PvP class but PvE is very fun as long as you're not playing agro tag and be careful. Keep in mind hitting big is great fun but make sure you're not hurting your squad while doing it.

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

I gave you the reason not to listen to them - because you don't have to.





See no reason why not to listen to them? They you just aren't paying attention. I which case, be my guest - go waste your time.

now lets be clear here, I never said anywhere that the wiz is a difference making class in the current metagame. If we're talking about veterans like myself who made a wizard when the server opened, or other people that have 3-4 alts with some of them aps alts with R9rrr wep to farm stuff, then it might be worth it to gear up a wiz. If you don't have anything better to do, why not, it's a fun class to play that's for sure.
For a new/beginner player there is no reason in the world to have wizard as your first class. I completely and totally advise against this. Wizard is a class that has the least return of investment in this game, bar none. The same amount of coins invested in any other chars will get you : more defenses, more DPS, more versatility and more support capabilities.
To anyone who thinks starting a wizard as first char and to do at one point some PvP of any kind: DO NOT DO IT. You are useless in PvE coin farming so you will not be able to make money for your gear progression. If you plan on buying gear with RL cash then who cares.

mynameiswizy wrote: »

Actually I read again that ursa post. b:laugh
rocking the boat. LMAO.
your way of descript it make me want to ROCK the boat with you sir. LOL.

I made that long *** post to show the gear progression in this game. Level 1 and 2 were achievable with lets say a minimum investment of $200. PvE wise you were still ****-ish and not able to farm anything but a minimum amount of RL money or a few months of farming with friends (back then there was no soloing stuff so you could still find a lot of squads and gold was 120k) could get you the gear you wanted.
Not the case anymore. Now the ceiling for PVP competitiveness is in the thousands RL money or billion ingame coins.

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If we're talking about . . . . people that have 3-4 alts with some of them aps alts with R9rrr wep to farm stuff, then it might be worth it to gear up a wiz.

True! Exactly the point. Wizard is essentially the LAST class you should play. If you "have nothing better to do"? Sure, go for it.

But if you are asking if its worth the time and coin invested, when you could choose essentially ANY other class. No, not worth it. Not by a long shot.

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

blah blah blah I cant own everything that walks therefore the class sucks

the tl;dr of all your posts. no class should be able to kill everything, that's balance. you are supposed to kill kitties, not archers aka robe killers.

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

True! Exactly the point. Wizard is essentially the LAST class you should play. If you "have nothing better to do"? Sure, go for it.

But if you are asking if its worth the time and coin invested, when you could choose essentially ANY other class. No, not worth it. Not by a long shot.

Erm.. you mad bro?

I for one, love playing a wizzard. Its my main, the first class i played when i first started playing PWI. Sure there were times when i was dying a lot in pve, i came close to stop playing it. And yes i've raged at the computer on more than a few occasions. b:chuckle

But at the end of the day imho. Its the best class in the game bar none. I have so much fun playing it. Though there are always days i dont. Mainly due to the fact there is so much R9rr on Dreamweaver now.

As you are well aware, wizzards are late bloomers in terms of seeing their full capability. Weather you go the G16 or R9 route you will continue to have lots of fun playing the class.

G16 wizzards are more than capable of killing R9rr toons ie. Archers, Sins, BM's. I seen it in NW and TW. So i know first hand what a wizzard can do in pvp.

As for you assertion that wizzards are not sought after for PvE and NW/TW i have to say to you. That in my experience wizzards are definatley a sought after class.

In TW you need to break up a strong cordinated attack by your opponent you send in the big guns. b:laugh

As a class we shine in TW and i believe it will continue that way. Major TW factions need Strong Magic DD's. Fact.

As to the obvious anger and bile you aimed at Adriot. Well i did laugh. So he has a maxed out wizzard. So what? Doesnt mean you can just dismiss what advise he has been offering. I say offering, not ramming down people throats as you seem to be suggesting. He's a massive fan of the class as am i and many others. Whats more he can play his class. Yes the gear helps ofc it does, but isnt that the point?

To the op who started this thread i say this. Its your choice what you do. Its a game have fun. Yes have a wizzard as your main. Why not? Its your game do as you wish. Get it as far as you can. Then make a sin to farm with. If you cant cash for your R9. Or just want to stay G16. Either way doesnt matter. Its what you get out of it that counts. It can be hard work. But the pain you can experience is well worth it. Either way, im sure you will have fun and enjoy playing a wizzard. b:victory

FaceRolI - Sanctuary wrote: »

For a player who does not want to invest a significant amount of time/money into gearing up it would probably be best to pick a character that can be played more as a support. In this case wizard would be an inferior pick to many other choices, as a casual player would be completely out geared.

this is VERY important and it might be a good part of what probably BLOODMYSTIC was trying to say also. But everyone just took their guns out and start shooting around words so after 1 page of posts almost no one knows what they're fighting for and why.

This discussion derailed pretty badly but the core idea remained: it's not about the wizard not being able to compete against classes with equal gear, it's about being able to compete against slightly better geared opponents and about being almost impossible to compete against a full stage better geared opponent.
A wizard can kill any other class, but for that it needs to survive to do it. The survival of the wizard depends almost exclusively on gear. That's where the problem is when you don't have the top tier gear is and that's also the advantage when you're at the top.

Another point argued here is the utility of a low level wizard in lets say farming. In the end, you need to either cash in, farm or merchant. Let's cut out cash in and balance farm + merchant. Let's consider our player charges 50$ to get a kick-start at lvl 100. All of those 50$ are going towards gear.
Some people are more or less talented at merchanting so I would consider money making 75% farming and 25% merchanting. Now farming at lvl 100+ as a wiz is...difficult. Beside defending metal pav in WS there is not much else a wiz can do. And that's a squad run. Solo ? nothing. A full WS run with ppl that farm to gear up can take up to 2h. You come out with 6 badges and maybe a mold. At the beginning u have to sell casting service to make some money, then you can buy(farm)/cast/sell G16 pieces for better profit. In all this money-making scenario you need a ton of available time and a squad to farm. Plus, squad wise you're a sub-mediocre DD and your survival is pretty much ****. Most probably you're going to die 3-4 times/run.


Now take a sin for example: g13+5 can solo FC. I will take about 40 minutes and you might need some apo , but can be done ( I did it a lot a few years back). That's 1 mil coins right there, clean cut, and you can do it whenever you have 40 minutes available. You can farm Eden/Brim for books, you can farm at least 2 TT's that during 2x will return you about 3-4 mil/hour. So basically we could consider beside the BH income (if lucky) we can make an average of 1.4 mil/hour from FC with the most basic of sin gear and about 3.5 mil /hour from TT during 2x. I'm sorry but I don't see how a wizard can match that productivity.
As gear improves, the Sin gets better and better at making money.

This, and only this, is the reason I advise people not to start with a wizard. It is a bad idea and whoever does it will regret it later. Why i keep getting back to this comparison of who can make how much money? because that's what it counts. That's how you get the top tier gear. For a wiz, there is no other choice, you're either dressed up in G16 or R9rrr or you just don't count. My sin can farm like hell and do some killing in NW/TWs. I did not build it for PvP, it's a pure APS farm build but it still does well. I can tank a full WS if needbe so can't complain at all really. Will I 1 shot my sin with my wiz? oh, no doublt if i geet a Stone crit, or 2 shot with gush/pyro. But only because in the last 2 years I haven't done anything about his survival gear. If all the money I've made with it I would have put it in his gear I would have been R9rrr and then there would have been no competition.

In the end is all a question of perspective and what you want to do in this game. You wanna kill some time having fun killing mobs around the map? cool, any class will do. Wanna compete a little bit then you need to chose wisely or it will be a very bumpy road.

As I said before with all the wizard setbacks, if I would have been given the choice of making same amount of money with any of the classes in game and play the one that I like more I would have chosen wizard without even thinking. But it's not the case and just as in RL money talks.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

the tl;dr of all your posts. no class should be able to kill everything, that's balance. you are supposed to kill kitties, not archers aka robe killers.

Post on your wiz so we know you have some idea what you are talking about.

Oh, that's right. Nevermind.

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

End game wizzies utterly destroy archers, bad example :P

Maybe an unbuffed one like you prefer to do on your web channel, and even then you have to run around until you can hit him with your genie. Recognize that it isn't the class, its the gear you have and the opponent you fight. And if you have to use a genie to kill when other classes don't? That alone makes my case for me.

AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Erm.. you mad bro?

I for one, love playing a wizzard.

I have so much fun playing it.

You illiterate, bro? The question on this thread isn't whether you like wizard or whether you think its fun. I won't waste time arguing matters of opinion.

AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Erm.. you mad bro?

As you are well aware, wizzards are late bloomers in terms of seeing their full capability. Weather you go the G16 or R9 route you will continue to have lots of fun playing the class.

Thank you for telling everyone what they will have fun at. But again, stay on topic "bro"

AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver wrote: »

G16 wizzards are more than capable of killing R9rr toons ie. Archers, Sins, BM's. I seen it in NW and TW. So i know first hand what a wizzard can do in pvp.

Noone said they weren't. The real issue is which is stronger - not the possibility of being able to kill. The question is, equally geared, which is stronger. And in almost every respect, every other glass in g16 is stronger than a wizard in G16. But don't ask Adolt that - he quit his wizard until he got it top gear.

AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver wrote: »

As for you assertion that wizzards are not sought after for PvE and NW/TW i have to say to you. That in my experience wizzards are definatley a sought after class.

In TW you need to break up a strong cordinated attack by your opponent you send in the big guns. b:laugh

As a class we shine in TW and i believe it will continue that way. Major TW factions need Strong Magic DD's. Fact.

Proof? You have none. Again, all the reader has to do is watch world chat - noone ever asks for a wizard. For anything.

AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver wrote: »

As to the obvious anger and bile you aimed at Adriot. Well i did laugh.

As you should. I laught at him too, as he greets people who disagree with him with an arrogance that has no peer.

AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver wrote: »

So he has a maxed out wizzard. So what? Doesnt mean you can just dismiss what advise he has been offering.

When he implies that his experience is typical, or that with lesser gear his experience will be the same, yes, oh yes, I most certainly CAN dismiss it, as should everyone.

AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver wrote: »

To the op who started this thread i say this. Its your choice what you do. Its a game have fun. Yes have a wizzard as your main. Why not? Its your game do as you wish. Get it as far as you can.

Well, I am sure that advice is really helpful for him. He didn't ask if he could do what he wanted, or if he could get a wizard as far as he could, did he?

AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Then make a sin to farm with. If you cant cash for your R9.

Whoa, wait a minute. Wizards are "in demand" - what need of a sin to farm with?

AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Or just want to stay G16. Either way doesnt matter.

Yes, because rrr9 wizard and g16 are the same. Gear doesn't matter at all . . . .

AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Its what you get out of it that counts. It can be hard work. But the pain you can experience is well worth it.

Well worth it? Based on what? The fact that you "have fun" playing one I suppose?

AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Either way, im sure you will have fun and enjoy playing a wizzard. b:victory

Morons. And people wonder why I continue to post here. These forums are taken over by morons.

FaceRolI - Sanctuary wrote: »

To me BloodMystics arguement seems to be that a non-end game geared psychic/archer/veno/anyotherclass can accomplish more then a similarly geared wizard in terms of pk (really?).

Close. They are more effective. While this is difficult to prove, as absolute equality of gear is difficult to find, the fact is my damage log every week shows the vast disparity between what classes are hitting me for and how much I hit them back, and this is only made worse by the fact that we are the slowest attacking class. Those bigger hits come faster than we can dish them out. Some of that is the difference in crit rate, to be sure, but it takes very little time playing a wizard (unless you are at the very top in terms of gear - meaning by necessity you are mostly attacking people with lesser gear than you) to realize that other classes get much more out of the heavier gear choices than wizards do. Which is pretty close to what Ursa was saying - this difference (although it may have still existed when tt90/tt99 was end game for most people) has become far greater and far more noticeable in the current game.

FaceRolI - Sanctuary wrote: »

It is implied that accomplishment in pk is based on securing kills.

Somewhat, as long as you are speaking in terms of ability to kill, not mere number of kills per tw, etc.

FaceRolI - Sanctuary wrote: »

For a player who does not want to invest a significant amount of time/money into gearing up it would probably be best to pick a character that can be played more as a support. In this case wizard would be an inferior pick to many other choices, as a casual player would be completely out geared.

Somewhat true, but not necessarily. G16 archers, sins and even (to a lesser extent) seeker can all be very effective in a non-support role. Hell, my rr8 archer can still hit 1st and 2nd cast r9 arcane classes enough to kill them if quick shot procs not to mention purge. A rank 8 wizard will hit them for 500 every 3 seconds.

FaceRolI - Sanctuary wrote: »

However, this is clearly not a good measure for PK potential of a class. At the very least the classes should be compared when in equatable gear. This is where we seem to differ, a g16+10 wep +7 armor wizard (I picked something that seems reasonably obtainable) would be able to kill ever other class just as well if not better then most other classes. Blood seems to believe that this is not the case, and that the wizard is at a disadvantage vs an archer or any other class.

Funny you should mention this. I actually play a +10g16 weapon +7 armor psychic and cleric as well, and the psychic is AS (if not in some instances more) effective than my rrr9 wizard +10 weapon and rr9 +8/+10 armor (11 josd, 4 vit (i know, i know) 8 garnet gems). It hits just as hard with everything but wizard ultimates (if you consider casting time, cool downs, chi costs, etc.), has far more survivability (white voodoo, soul of silence/stunning, psychic will) , and most of the skills are quick casting aoe's.

Vs archers in particular since you mentioned them, on my psychic I can stun them with 1 spark, freeze them with no sparks, psychic will and white voodoo to tank them, etc. In essence, I can go toe to toe with them in a way a wizard simply can't do. And if I can't kill them, I can at least tie them up enough to neutralize them from killing my squad until I get some help. On a wizard? You can tie them up with sleep and seal for maybe 10 seconds, then you have to run away like Adolt does on his youtube channel. Which maybe an effective way to get a spark combo kill in 1 vs 1 against an unbuffed archer (which, lets be honest here, of all the classes light armor ones NEED buffs the most), but if you play TW that way as a wizard, you might as well not even show up imo.

Now, are their some things that my wizard can do better? Sure. HEAVY hitting aoe's to take out large groups. But those are slow cast and very situational in that you have to find the group and do everything right. And yes, that is what makes wizards fun to play. I get it. But effective? In TW, I'd rather have a psychic than a wizard anyday.

thumbs wrote: »

People were saying wizard was late bloomer even before Nirvana came out. -Old myth being kept alive.

'late bloomer' That is true.
But it is not like a 'BOOM'!!
Wow like an Evolution or something like what we expected from the word.

-Too much effort to playing it correctly, while the other class are not that much. (I cant descript it)
-I feel this class power is still argueable to be said as the best magic DD.
(As we already know this class signatures are spark genie Combo, 3 ultis,
and then with 0 chi, what? undine?)
I don't know what to say really

umm, maybe
if we get a good chi gain (without sacrificing anything!) then there will be no this long page thread.
even there are still the annoying cooldown of course.

oh and hey don't get me wrong here, it is still enjoyable to play b:pleased
to take down the PRIMARY target of the opponent. here we go fire combo. bye2.
to take down large group of opponent with wide area from a distance. take 1 of 3 ulti, or combine.
but must do this (GoodGear-up), and this(good Combo), and this(Chi chi chi yeah we love a lot of chi)
it will be a good Wiz.
CMIIW

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

So if somebody were to try to use that video as a representation of what end game wiz vs ea is like, well, that'd be a tad silly.

Perhaps, but I guarantee you it is an accurate representation of the way you play your wizard now, and what you must do (and more importantly, what you can't do) to kill someone.

And its not just your video - there is another rrr9 105 wizard on LC that posted a video called "lost city wizards vs sins" or some such thing - and the result is the same. 16k hp wizard with self buffs and copper paperweight only dying a fair bit and only winning when he hits the sin with his genie.

But hey, you like that play style, so be it. Just recognize that it is absolutely indicative of wizards being the weaker class.

Oh, and just wait - eventually pwi will nerf genie spark because it imbalances the game in favor of wizards. No other class has a genie skill that amps damage by as much, and only wizards can use it effectively. Can't you hear them now? "It's soooooo unfair . . . . . ." Trust me, it may take them a while because they don't actually play the freakin game, but it will happen. You heard it here first.

Unless of course they come out with a new race of fire casters? Think like a psychic but fire skills instead of water skills. Who needs sutra when you have 1 second channel times?

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

This'll happen as soon as they nerf sins.

No, pwi clearly hates wizards. The number of wizards gets fewer and fewer. If they liked wizards, each rrr9 piece would have -3/-6 channel, ijs . . . .