New Skill Trees?

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Kiszmet - Heavens Tear
Kiszmet - Heavens Tear Posts: 155 Arc User
edited July 2013 in Venomancer
I keep seeing mention across the forums of new skill trees in the pipe for the next expansion/large update. Any information on this or is it just rumor?
Post edited by Kiszmet - Heavens Tear on

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  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited July 2013
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    Source? o.o I don't remember anyone saying anything.
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  • Kiszmet - Heavens Tear
    Kiszmet - Heavens Tear Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited July 2013
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    Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Source? o.o I don't remember anyone saying anything.

    Ive heard it from a couple sources, in game, vent, and just saw a sin mention it on the forums. I have no announcements or company pages as proof, I was wondering if someone else did. Right now its still in rumor territory with me, but I've heard about it enough times I'm starting to wonder.
  • Kyooshu - Sanctuary
    Kyooshu - Sanctuary Posts: 68 Arc User
    edited July 2013
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    Hmm... I haven't heard or seen anything about it at all. I've been looking at a number of veno things lately cause I'm thinking of starting up my veno again, but I haven't heard a word o:

    Also, hey Desdi, what level can venos start to do the daily instance or whatever it is o.o? Is there any forum guides or anything for it yet O_o? I heard the only way to get the Protect/Reflect/Strong skill books is through there D: ( Not counting the Lv. 80 skill books that cost what.. 33mil each? q.q)

    Currently, my veno's only 35 x3 it's been about... 4 years since I've touched her lol
  • Mayfly - Dreamweaver
    Mayfly - Dreamweaver Posts: 6,094 Arc User
    edited July 2013
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    Level 100 to do the instance, and there is a small chance of getting Claw or Bless scrolls (not Protect, Reflect or Strong; those can only be gotten from Dragon Temple or a high enough level base Vault) if you manage to get 400+ points, with a slightly better chance if you get 700+ points.
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  • Kyooshu - Sanctuary
    Kyooshu - Sanctuary Posts: 68 Arc User
    edited July 2013
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    Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Level 100 to do the instance, and there is a small chance of getting Claw or Bless scrolls (not Protect, Reflect or Strong; those can only be gotten from Dragon Temple or a high enough level base Vault) if you manage to get 400+ points, with a slightly better chance if you get 700+ points.

    I retract my dumb question. it would seem to be a pk event, not an instance *Sighs*
  • Mayfly - Dreamweaver
    Mayfly - Dreamweaver Posts: 6,094 Arc User
    edited July 2013
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    Yeah, Dragon Temple is mostly a PK event, and level 60 to enter.
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  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited July 2013
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    Temple of the Dragon doesn't have a level limit does it? Unless it's something like lvl50+ or so. I've never been there so I don't know anyway xD

    The daily instance is for lvl100 yeah, there's plenty of info on it if you're interested later. You can check the stickies (evolution guide, useful venomancer links) and there's plenty of youtube videos for it.
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  • DeffyNature - Archosaur
    DeffyNature - Archosaur Posts: 1,400 Arc User
    edited July 2013
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    I guess the rumors may be attributed to the statement Val made when asked about the veno/barb 2 new skills for the spirit foxform and panda form: he said those will be introduced later this summer, in a larger expansion focusing on skill re-balance and updates, but no other details were given.
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  • Veneir - Dreamweaver
    Veneir - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,541 Arc User
    edited July 2013
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    DeffyNature - Archosaur wrote: »
    he said those will be introduced later this summer, in a larger expansion focusing on skill re-balance and updates, but no other details were given.

    Again??
    OTL well, alright.
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  • Kiszmet - Heavens Tear
    Kiszmet - Heavens Tear Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited July 2013
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    DeffyNature - Archosaur wrote: »
    I guess the rumors may be attributed to the statement Val made when asked about the veno/barb 2 new skills for the spirit foxform and panda form: he said those will be introduced later this summer, in a larger expansion focusing on skill re-balance and updates, but no other details were given.

    Thank you Deffy. Glad to know Val said they would release the skills eventually, now I can stop pestering geno about it, for now.

    As far as rebabalancing goes I would say most classes need it, especially fox venos (completely skipped over last set of balancing). I just hope they don't **** it up more than they fix it.
  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited July 2013
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    Agreed. Fox skills need an update and since I've been doing PvP (not very much due to timezone but still) I've found that I don't even get to use my fox form skills besides the regular debuffs (including morai) and stunning blow for the freeze.

    I don't know if we are really getting a re-balance though. It sounded more like us just getting the new skills but I'd love some updates on skills again. I just hope it won't happen when I'm really busy with college :/
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  • DeffyNature - Archosaur
    DeffyNature - Archosaur Posts: 1,400 Arc User
    edited July 2013
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    He said the re-balance and skill update was for the other classes as well, so we'll just have to wait and see. I'm also skeptical for re-balancing, we did get some skill changes for a few demon/sage and lvl 100 skills last winter for a number of classes, but I could see them adding 2-3 skills for the other classes as well.
    They also called the introduction of Morai skills a balancing factor, so yeah, we'll just have to wait and see.
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  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited July 2013
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    I hope you're right, I'd really really love an update to the fox form tree and heck I'd love demon/sage version for the Morai skills too and maybe make some new version of AEU to farm them. That would be fun!
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  • Marengo - Lost City
    Marengo - Lost City Posts: 771 Arc User
    edited July 2013
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    Why are all so eager to update foxform skills (except debuffs)? Is it fun to chase target, which can escape with a single leap (bm, wiz), and miss (no accuracy)? Not talking about great loss of time in foxform (6 sec + casting skills) while opponent's charms refreshes b:question
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  • Mayfly - Dreamweaver
    Mayfly - Dreamweaver Posts: 6,094 Arc User
    edited July 2013
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    Some of us spend a lot of time in foxform.
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  • Vitenka - Dreamweaver
    Vitenka - Dreamweaver Posts: 4,125 Arc User
    edited July 2013
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    I too would much like to see fox form be a more major part of gameplay; it seems like it's very under utilised right now.

    And I was so very hopeful when the new evolved shiny foxform came out, and we were promised new skills for it.

    I'm really expecting it to end up being a disappointment though. Probably a single skill with ridiculous cooldown, or that consumes mirages or something.
  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited July 2013
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    Agreed, I'd love to see Fox Form become more than just a form used for purge and amp, figuratively speaking.
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  • Untamed_pain - Archosaur
    Untamed_pain - Archosaur Posts: 533 Arc User
    edited July 2013
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    i just want bramble to not be nerfed or any other damn demon veno skill. I don't persay spend alot of time in Foxform and sadly not all skills are lvl 10...but im working on getting them all there. Soul degen, amp, purge is demon
    untamed_pain demon veno 103-100-101
    SweetAzHoney Sage Cleric 102-currently rebirthing
    xXZoeMarieXx sage seeker 101-currently rebirthing
    StormyRainz Demon Mystic 101 Not rebirth yet
    EsmeStorms Demon wizzy 101 not rebirth yet
    UhitLikaGirl Almost sage barb 100 buffer
    and loads of other alts...
  • Kiszmet - Heavens Tear
    Kiszmet - Heavens Tear Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited July 2013
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    Marengo - Lost City wrote: »
    Why are all so eager to update foxform skills (except debuffs)? Is it fun to chase target, which can escape with a single leap (bm, wiz), and miss (no accuracy)? Not talking about great loss of time in foxform (6 sec + casting skills) while opponent's charms refreshes b:question

    There is a lot more to fox form than simply running up and biting at things. It has a seal (Bewitch) A Freeze skill to prevent targets from running (Stunning Blow) A massive accuracy aoe debuff (Befuddling Mist) An Aoe multi debuff (Fox Rainbow) and several recovery skills such Leech and Consume Soul. The problems aren't the skills themselves its that these skills are woefully underpowered with the state of the current game. Throw the bramble nerf in there and foxes are hurting in terms of balanced PvP combat.

    For example, back in 2008/2009 600-800 HP was fine recovery as (if you were HA veno) melees didn't hit for much more than 200-300 a hit, making the skill useful to regain some HP in prolonged fights. Now with melees hitting 1k or more, and GOF zerks going off with criticals, even with (minor) added damage the skill isn't worth taking the time to cast.

    Malefic Crush also comes to mind, its a very expensive skill that has a good aoe radius, but unlike Nova it only adds damage to base phys attack instead of adding weap damage or damage based on stat modifiers like many other 2 spark skills. Throw in a fairly long charge time for a melee skill and the fact that charms made the debuff it adds worthless long ago and you have a skill in dire hurt for a change.

    For the most part, I feel the problems would be solved simply by adding a weapon modifier into the damage equation, and changing only a select few debuffs so that they are useful again. Many of the standing debuffs and purge are fine and don't need to be changed and as fox form is more support instead of damage oriented I wouldn't mind if the damage modifiers weren't that large, in fact I don't feel they should be, but they are needed and I hope some help comes for the form soon.

    (I just pray they don't have the idea of changing the skills over to be based on magic attack, with some veno builds that would just be absolutely game breaking b:shocked)
  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited July 2013
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    I argee with Kismet there.
    The problems are not in the skills per se but the fact that over the years updates occurred, gear was released and gameplay was changed that rendered most of those skills rather obsolete.

    I can't say they lost their value in PvE completely but in PvP you won't be using those skills, except for Stunning Blow occasionally. I should also throw in Fossilized Curse which is a powerful debuff and deals decent damage too.

    I'd love a small weapon damage multiplier added to the skills, certainly something that doesn't make them too strong but at least worth using. However, I think the main focus should be adding various effects and/or improving the effects of the skills.
    MANray_ did a good post on it.

    I don't necessarily agree with all of them but considering Fox Form is more of a support mode for the majority of Venomancers, they should increase/modify/improve the effects. That, of course, doesn't mean they should change the skills to be based off magic attack. That doesn't even make sense, we do have Melee Mastery and all that.
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  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
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    Kiszmet - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    For example, back in 2008/2009 600-800 HP was fine recovery as (if you were HA veno) melees didn't hit for much more than 200-300 a hit, making the skill useful to regain some HP in prolonged fights. Now with melees hitting 1k or more, and GOF zerks going off with criticals, even with (minor) added damage the skill isn't worth taking the time to cast.

    The amount they hit for is based on your defense. (lost argument)
    Malefic Crush also comes to mind, its a very expensive skill that has a good aoe radius, but unlike Nova it only adds damage to base phys attack instead of adding weap damage or damage based on stat modifiers like many other 2 spark skills. Throw in a fairly long charge time for a melee skill and the fact that charms made the debuff it adds worthless long ago and you have a skill in dire hurt for a change.

    With today's attack levels; it hits harder than the average wiz from 3 years ago (which still exist today). It also hits many more mobs than Befuddling Mist does.
    Many of the standing debuffs and purge are fine and don't need to be changed and as fox form is more support instead of damage oriented I wouldn't mind if the damage modifiers weren't that large, in fact I don't feel they should be, but they are needed and I hope some help comes for the form soon.

    Melee Mastery: 'Sage version always gives 200% damage increase.'
    (I just pray they don't have the idea of changing the skills over to be based on magic attack, with some veno builds that would just be absolutely game breaking b:shocked)

    Those builds are already game breaking. I hate recruiting a veno for anything just to find out they're deeteedee 1-1 aps melee that suck at 1-1 dd, aoe, range tanking, pulling in metal, etc. Almost all, if not all updates have been to thwart the mindless derpa derpa melee. To roll a veno as one at this point makes me think troll post.
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  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited July 2013
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    I was actually thinking they could make the skills deal different damage (and effects?) in PvE and PvP. That would probably be the easiest way to make them more useful in PvP.
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