New defences needed?

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Vitenka - Dreamweaver
Vitenka - Dreamweaver Posts: 4,125 Arc User
edited July 2013 in Venomancer
Ok, I am fed up with dying in the "Stealth this" trap at the start of Abba. What defence so I actually need to survive that? The old 5k pdef/5k HP (unbuffed) isn't cutting it any more.

Yes, I can use our damage reduction skills; but they run out halfway.

So what's the new requirements to not get humiliated in instances?
Post edited by Vitenka - Dreamweaver on

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  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited July 2013
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    The rocks have a falling pattern so if you can figure it out you can run in and receive minimal damage.

    I'm not very familiar to be honest since all of my toons can pass through relatively easy but what I've figured thus far is that when rocks are about to fall they appear on the minimap as monsters and once they have fallen/exploded they disappear.

    I wait until the dots become less and scattered and then I Holy Path through, usually I get very few hits or no hits at all.

    For the second part, I try to do something similar but the pattern seems to be a little more chaotic so I try to stick to the sides and look out for the rocks' shadow because it usually hints where they will be falling.
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  • Fissile - Archosaur
    Fissile - Archosaur Posts: 607 Arc User
    edited July 2013
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    I don't think your defenses are considered at all when you take damage from the rocks. I think it just applies random damage somewhere in the 1000-4000 range. I receive similar damage on all my characters, which have wildly different defenses.
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  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited July 2013
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    Yeah, that's true as well. They seem to have a set damage.

    A lot of things PW implements lately seem to work this way.
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  • Vitenka - Dreamweaver
    Vitenka - Dreamweaver Posts: 4,125 Arc User
    edited July 2013
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    Oh lovely; so it's another thing telling you to ignore defences, but buff HP. That's annoying.

    Dodging works to dodge most of them, but two hits is usually enough to whack me. And.. I really don't see where I can realistically get more than about extra 250HP from. (Improving refines and shards would get me that, but I'm into the many millions to go further. I already use a +5% HP necklace for that bit.)
  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited July 2013
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    What are your refines at? If they are not higher than +7 you could try using Tisha/Tienkang to get a +6/+7.
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  • Mayfly - Dreamweaver
    Mayfly - Dreamweaver Posts: 6,094 Arc User
    edited July 2013
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    Are you running on the walls? (I use the right hand walls so Celestial Giant doesn't wander into the middle on curves and die.) That helps to avoid most of them. Also, you could get Salvation's shield or cleric's wings of protection before the run, or use Feral.
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  • Vitenka - Dreamweaver
    Vitenka - Dreamweaver Posts: 4,125 Arc User
    edited July 2013
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    Yes, hugging the right hand edge; keeping pet in the bag to avoid that death.

    Mostly at +5, a couple are a bit above that. That would be my main source of getting 250 ish extra HP; but that's not going to be enough by the sounds of it.

    Hmm, as they're implemented as exploding mobs - I wonder if they can be earthquaked; either to interrupt, or to push out of the way like the clappers can.
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
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    Sage Summer Sprint can purge the slow effect. Fox Form for def. It is possible to get through them without getting hit.
    Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »
    [COLOR
    I wait until the dots become less and scattered and then I Holy Path through, usually I get very few hits or no hits at all.

    I wait til they're most scattered because it's clear right after, and they fall lighter after.
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  • Walpurga - Dreamweaver
    Walpurga - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,028 Arc User
    edited July 2013
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    Wait for rocks to subside, bramble hood holy path

    demon summer sprint/fortify-->feral concentration-->charger or holy path or demon fox thru second leg
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  • Salari - Raging Tide
    Salari - Raging Tide Posts: 2,102 Arc User
    edited July 2013
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    wow what kind of gear do you have to only have 5k hp @ 100. my 95 cleric has more hp than that unbuffed with just tt90 gold gear(i am not knocking ur gear). Other than that i just run on the sides, there is alot less rocks that fall there. if you time it right you wont be hit at all.
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  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
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    Salari - Raging Tide wrote: »
    wow what kind of gear do you have to only have 5k hp @ 100. my 95 cleric has more hp than that unbuffed with just tt90 gold gear(i am not knocking ur gear). Other than that i just run on the sides, there is alot less rocks that fall there. if you time it right you wont be hit at all.

    I thought that myself. I have 2 dex sins that swap equips and their HP w/o any equips is almost that.
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  • Vitenka - Dreamweaver
    Vitenka - Dreamweaver Posts: 4,125 Arc User
    edited July 2013
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    Really, I'm a decently geared level 99 who accidentally levelled up.

    I just rechecked - it's 5537HP unbuffed, over 6k pdef in foxform.

    And the glaring problem is the Rank7 chestpiece, which only has +3, half due to bad luck and half due to my intending to replace it, so not wanting to waste too much improving it.

    My best equipment piece is the wings of cloudcharger at +6, most of my other pieces are sacred legate; I've got 8 citrines (a somewhat shameful mix of flawless and immaculate, I really need to get enough morai points to get some perfects, but I got the pdef ones first)

    It used to be more than enough; but it's not any more. So what is?

    But there really don't seem to be any decent chest pieces above it - and I really like having 40% channel. It's the last channel piece available that I can find, unless someone else knows of others?

    I don't play much any more, and so running BHs in the hopes of getting a decent reward was part of my plan to improve this - but clearly I need to spend to improve first.
    Also, how on earth is a player supposed to do their culti in there?
  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited July 2013
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    Pretty much only the rank tops have channeling.

    I'd say get a better top and use the rank one when you need channeling. I was never a fan of sacrificing defences/HP for channeling and I just carried with me a whole set of channeling gear/ornaments for when I needed some.

    Generally though, I've seen people with less than 5k HP make it through somehow so maybe you just need a little practice on timing/running through.
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  • Vitenka - Dreamweaver
    Vitenka - Dreamweaver Posts: 4,125 Arc User
    edited July 2013
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    Ugh. I already switch ornaments. More inventory slots to use up? Yeuch.
    I guess I could though. Would the morai top be good enough? I've got that in a bank somewhere.
  • X_volcano_y - Harshlands
    X_volcano_y - Harshlands Posts: 135 Arc User
    edited July 2013
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    I use Natural>stow pet>feral.My genie allow me to holy path twice in a row. Immunity just ends as soon as i reach end safely.
  • WannaBM - Archosaur
    WannaBM - Archosaur Posts: 1,984 Arc User
    edited July 2013
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    Build a barb and wonder what all the fuzz is about with those rocks :) just ignore and run b:laugh
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  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited July 2013
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    Honestly, 5k for a caster is decent enough. I still get the random 3k clerics in my squads.

    Rock damage is magic btw. Just double checked with BMs marrows, 900 magic marrowed, 2500 phys marrowed.
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  • Vitenka - Dreamweaver
    Vitenka - Dreamweaver Posts: 4,125 Arc User
    edited July 2013
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    Ah, that's interesting to know!

    Means I was using the wrong ornaments all along! (Though... 5% HP is probably still worth having over the 300ish mdef option, for this)

    I'm beginning to think these rocks are PWIs way of enforcing charm usage.

    This weekends runs were hilarious. Saturday, got hit by rocks, stuck in scenery; died nine times.

    Sunday, got through the rocks; and then the beholders decided to visit us (not my fault, I hasten to add) - but I didn't manage to catch them all, and we had about six squad wipes as people tried to res back in and the beholders came running from across the room. Very odd.
  • PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver
    PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,507 Arc User
    edited July 2013
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    if the damage is magical you can try mdef charms that cut damage by 50%. if they are affected by those. disproving a fixed, random 2-4k dmg hypothesis is kinda hard :/

    get those divine emisary pots that instantly heal you for 1.5k, when rock hits pop one. ideally you would have popped an hp pot a few sec before.
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  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited July 2013
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    Can it be reduced by turtle buff? cuz then you can just use Hood.

    If not, then use Feral with some sort of movement immune (ask an archer, Demon sprint, some damn pill, etc)
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  • Kiszmet - Heavens Tear
    Kiszmet - Heavens Tear Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited July 2013
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    Hood won't last long enough without Holy Path. The feral conc with a fortify or relentless courage genie skill will work, though you'll only get one or two Holy Paths from it then run into the same problem. Best solution is to wait for a lull (they happen) and Holy Path through it while sticking to the corners. Fortunately Holy Path ignores the slow effect the stones give you so if they do hit, and almost 1 or 2 always will, you'll at least still be going at full throttle. If that doesn't work, try doing it with feral conc then switch to Hood when that wares off, should be able to get through at least the first set alright.

    I applaud the idea of the stones, I disparage its implementation.
  • Vitenka - Dreamweaver
    Vitenka - Dreamweaver Posts: 4,125 Arc User
    edited July 2013
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    That's a good point - in quality corner there's a comment that "The aim is to dodge the rocks"

    ... But how? There's no useful warning, the little puffs of dust don't seem to have any relation to the damage explosions - it's just "boom, randomly you might not take damage"
    Is there a trick to it I'm missing?


    Using bramble hood does seem to reduce the damage, but as you say, it doesn't last long enough. The instant regen apothecary items is a good idea though, I'll try that. And use apo speed item (which I have a ton of) and the genie for second wind instead. Maybe that'll work. It can't be worse, anyway.
  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited July 2013
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    Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    That's a good point - in quality corner there's a comment that "The aim is to dodge the rocks"

    ... But how? There's no useful warning, the little puffs of dust don't seem to have any relation to the damage explosions - it's just "boom, randomly you might not take damage"
    Is there a trick to it I'm missing?

    I pointed out it is magic damage, so theres that.

    The first one is totally a pattern. Boom boom boom, slight wait, boom, then like 10 seconds with no rocks, then the rocks fall in the back. Then it starts over.

    The second one is a pattern but I don't see a path through it. The biggest problem is idiots try to HP down the center and so they get damage from rocks that fall in the left side, the right side, and the middle. Holy path down the right side. About 1.5 holy paths should get you through.

    One last thing. Go left wall when you get to the eyes. Yah, its about 12 seconds farther of a walk but the eyes don't aggro you if you stick to the wall but they will if you go right. Unless you're earlier, then may as well clear eyes for others.
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