What is the most helpfull/needed class atm?

GOOD barbs, sins and seekers. Kitty thinks there's never too many of them.

Too many seekers don't know how to use stances(and don't seem to learn, however much they are told how they work) and don't use shatters correctly on bosses(if they use them at all, forgetting them on one boss might be forgivable, but not on all bosses. And they should time Soulshatter to wizzie's or psychic's triple-sparkf:hehe).

Too many sins don't seem to have vital skills learnt(or they just don't use them) and don't unleash their full damage potential by using chi skills and having constant triple spark even before full APS gears. This of course if knowing how to use them correctly so they wouldn't be on CD all at once.

Too many barbs invoke even when facing couple mobs that don't hurt a **** and complain about not having enough chi(YOU HAVE BESTIAL RAGE!!!f:fume). Not to mention wasting chi on Flesh Ream when they clearly can't keep aggro and would profit squad better by using Devour, if the aggrothief can tank. This even when told a dozen times to use Devour f:fume
And barbs that have p. def. ornaments and wipe with just a couple relatively low-hitting magic mobs on themf:shame

Kitty's the one to talk about this. She never does any mistakesf:hush

And Kitty ish sowwy for yet another QQ-post.

Barbs are highly needed for under lvl 100 instances, also I've noticed a lack of sins.

I don't see much mystics or wizards in PK.

For 100+ PVE... meh, hard to tell what they would lack.. Healers/BMs maybe.

ickbotcrane wrote: »

In your eyes what classes are there not quite enough of to satisfy everyones needs?

Archers are highly unwanted on PvE. So unles you plan to TW or PvP a lot, I wouldn't recommend roll one.

Same happens with Mystics imho. People will only take a mystic if they can't get a cleric or if he/she is OP.

I mean, in today's metagame everything is 5aps or GTFO. If you are not a 5aps, better be a demon HF Blademaster, or a Sage Amplify Veno, or a +12 R9rr Sekker who can aoe and heal himself just with bloodpaint.

Tho even clerics and barbs are wanted on high instances, they're not always needed since 5aps can pretty much heal themselves if they have bloodpaint buffs and crab meats.

ickbotcrane wrote: »

Then I have lowered my selection to Barb, seeker, or cleric. Lets discuss PVE, Do barbs fall off post-100 in demandability for squads? Are seekers only good once you can afford to go full-pay mode? Have clerics stopped getting so much hate-rage at every little stupid thing someone does in dungeons?
And KittySama are you by chance available/willing to teach one to not make mistakes?

From what Kitty has seen as seeker doing lvl 100 stuff, barbs are quite demanded as many bosses are safer to do with one. And barb buffs+Devour isn't something even APS-squads would like to go without easily.
Seekers are good if you have a well-prepared genie, are ready to pay for some Apoths and learn how your debuffs work. That way seeker doesn't need super-gears to do most stuff. At least Kitty ish not doing too badly using TT90-gears(upgraded to T2-weapon last weekend, went long with TT90 gold blade. Trying to get lunar nirvie-armors soon). Of course having G16 makes seeker even far stronger.
Clerics are still pretty much blamed on if something goes wrong. But Kitty doesn't know too much about them as Kitty's not played or seen one being played at lvl 100 dungeons.

And that "Kitty never does mistakes" was pretty much sarcasm. Though Kitty indeed seems to do less mistakes than many players that Kitty has seen. Common sense and strict self-observation helps to cut them out(believe Kitty, common sense doesn't seem to be as common as it looks like as a word).f:shame
But Kitty ish willing to teach how to avoid some mistakes to anyone who's ready to listen. Too bad that many doesn't seem to want, rather continuing doing their less effective way and perhaps kicking Kitty from squad if Kitty points them where they could improve.
And like some even have as signatures, this game ish much about rinse and repeat. Kitty's done, for example, FC so much that most things she does come automatically without Kitty thinking much about what she ish doing. If Kitty ish doing something she's not done before, she might go by instinct.

Kitty ish sowwy for wall of text f:shame

Ahem, let fluffy start by saying it is in fact barbs who are the most needed and helpful class. Clerics are also the most needed and helpful class. Every other class is everywhere, mostly the fish and hippies. Fluffy sees people always wanting barbs, clerics, and of course GOOD DD's who don't have gear from the stone ages. Barbs are needed for pulling, grabbing aggro from anything that may be, but shouldn't be, smacking your cleric and/or stupid team mates who can't avoid mobs even though they can be TEN STORIES HIGH they won't avoid them. Being a barb, fluffy can just set out a world chat and get a spam of PM's from people who want a barb for whatever. Bob Barker should be here to say to spay or neuter our tideborn to help control their population, don't be a fish. BM's can be good but you of course will be expected to go with APS as well as axes. A good starting class fluffy says be a cleric, you just sit in 1 spot after level 59 anyway, so get used to being in a blue hamster ball you can't roll around in, but it's an easy job assuming your DD's aren't with gear from the stone ages, and a tank isn't made of paper. Though being a barb is expensive as it is, if you can't tank you can't go to the instance (kind of stupid but people DO need a tank) which makes gear farming a bit difficult, so it's both time consuming AND expensive, unless you have an obese wallet. Fluffy hopes this helps your decision.

FluffyPanda - Raging Tide wrote: »

Ahem, let fluffy start by saying it is in fact barbs who are the most needed and helpful class. Clerics are also the most needed and helpful class. Every other class is everywhere, mostly the fish and hippies. Fluffy sees people always wanting barbs, clerics, and of course GOOD DD's who don't have gear from the stone ages. Barbs are needed for pulling, grabbing aggro from anything that may be, but shouldn't be, smacking your cleric and/or stupid team mates who can't avoid mobs even though they can be TEN STORIES HIGH they won't avoid them. Being a barb, fluffy can just set out a world chat and get a spam of PM's from people who want a barb for whatever. Bob Barker should be here to say to spay or neuter our tideborn to help control their population, don't be a fish. BM's can be good but you of course will be expected to go with APS as well as axes. A good starting class fluffy says be a cleric, you just sit in 1 spot after level 59 anyway, so get used to being in a blue hamster ball you can't roll around in, but it's an easy job assuming your DD's aren't with gear from the stone ages, and a tank isn't made of paper. Though being a barb is expensive as it is, if you can't tank you can't go to the instance (kind of stupid but people DO need a tank) which makes gear farming a bit difficult, so it's both time consuming AND expensive, unless you have an obese wallet. Fluffy hopes this helps your decision.

Oh god another third person speaker

Anyways roll a barb or a cleric. These days BB takes care of all good tanks since they either are barbs with enough defense and HP to begin with that they last just fine till the next BB tick, or are BM/sins getting more BP heals than you can every provide as a cleric

If you're rich then +10 a pair of axes and a pair of claws and +10 a set of APS gear and a set of PVP/tanking gear and roll clawbarb. No one will ever know until your frighten-devour-stomp-spark aps takes all the aggro.

AriesBreath - Raging Tide wrote: »

No dex barb plox. I'm sick of those APS barbs who can tank less than my cleric even though I've got out dated gear.

If you're rich, you won't have to gimp yourself with APS build anyway.

I beg your pardon but when I used to play clawbarb I had at least 25k hp standing. Clawbarb is fun. You can solo many bosses with just BP and self buffs thanks to invoke and genie skills. If you are needed in team play you can go full axe and tiger. There had been numerous times when I was the only one alive and had to solo tank and kill a boss while other ppl just die. Try soloing that TT3-3 colossus with just self buff all by yourself. Note (OP sins are excluded)

*I don't exist*

dosen't rly matter what you roll what there is a sever lack of is ppl who play the toon well, if you want easy squads roll barb/cleric/BM every1 wants tank/buffs/heals/HF if you want to get invited back into good squads regularly though, roll w/e and learn to use it properly i.e dont go claw barb not all are fail ppl just dont trust em, don't PD+3spark+Frenzy on a boss u cant tank and qq wen ur *** gets dropped if ur a sin, dont afk in BB on a cleric etc etc etc

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

*rolls eyes

people still think clawbarbs as the old TT90 chest G15 legs TT99 arm/leg LA orns 8K HP standing things with +5 deicides lol?

R9 pieces are R9rr; entering stats too much work

Thank you for making my case for me.

My alt barb that has TT99 +5 has almost the same HP as your claw barb.

Edit: Didn't see that you didn't have tiger form on. Either way, this barb costs about 1/1000th the cost of your claw barb and has 4k less hp than your clawbarb in human form. This is actually what my alt barb has. (Note the +3 on some gear and 3 sockets of immaculate citrines.)

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

EDIT: I rolled a barb to tank, not to stand around and be a debuff/buff monkey; that's why I (aim for) clawbarb

You don't need barbs to tank PvE anymore, so there isn't a necessity to go clawbarb. Any claw bm or sin with equal or better gear would do a better job in terms of DD and tank just as well.

What barbs NEED to tank though, is an entire faction raining down on you as you drag your cata to their crystal.

Claws don't help you with that.

There is 1 fist barb and his name is Blood_Tyrant, every other fist/claw barb can gtfo.

AriesBreath - Raging Tide wrote: »

Combined these 2 points because they lead to the same thing.

Show me one PvE instance a BM or Sin of average and above gear can't already solo successfully without dying.

And you mean to tell me that a clawbarb will out-dps a r9 sin? I think not.

When did I say you're gonna outdps them lol? Devour + stomp of the king, aps, drop to tiger just before their spark cycles end and repeat. Every 1.5 spark cycles (stomp CD is 20 seconds) you give yourself a ~300K damage lead. Pretty much going to hold aggro for more than long enough to 100-0 any boss if your sin is R9rr (if that's what you mean since G16 claws and daggers aren't that different and 5aps G16 is not exactly super-crappy compared to R9 first cast)

If the sin is r9 good; let that sin tank and make his life easier by supporting DD and dropping a devour + frighten every spark cycle instead of devour+ stomp and putting out massive damage to kill boss faster.


Best friggin reasoning right here.

Who said anything about rolling squish barb? If i wanted to roll a squish barb I will roll a squish barb.

Sweetheart, that last part was emphasizing what barbs ACTUALLY HAVE to tank. You somehow are stuck with the notion that PvE in this game is insanely difficult which it isn't.

The whole reason why aps barb is at all viable is because of the presumption that pve is easy enough that a barb no longer needs full vit to even function and can turn into a hybrid DPS tank instead

And I think we've established that a modern endgame aps barb is anything but squishy

Yes, it's an option. So is the AA barb that boogiepanda pulled off. That was an option too.

Point is, you're gimping yourself one way or another when it really isn't necessary.

"Oh but claw barbs are fun" - I really don't see what's so fun about triple spark/auto attack. That's literally everything you can do as a clawbarb.

All the anti-clawbarb people seem to have forgotten what hotkeys are. APS barb is probably the most active barb of all lol since you're swapping pretty much an entire set of gear, weapons, forms on-demand. Ream-devour-stomp-spark-change form and weapon with 2 hotkeys-autoattack is a hell lot more fun than ream-devour-stomp-frighten-surf-sum filter skills-rinse and repeat lol. I can do that with a macro key. If you're letting sin tank then I might as well afk with a book on the devour and frighten hoykeys

Replies in red

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The whole reason why aps barb is at all viable is because of the presumption that pve is easy enough that a barb no longer needs full vit to even function and can turn into a hybrid DPS tank instead

And I think we've established that a modern endgame aps barb is anything but squishy

And again, if you're already end game, there's no reason to go APS build. If you've got end game gear, you'd probably want to try PvP/TW, where your claws fall very short.

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

All the anti-clawbarb people seem to have forgotten what hotkeys are. APS barb is probably the most active barb of all lol since you're swapping pretty much an entire set of gear, weapons, forms on-demand. Ream-devour-stomp-spark-change form and weapon with 2 hotkeys-autoattack is a hell lot more fun than ream-devour-stomp-frighten-surf-sum filter skills-rinse and repeat lol. I can do that with a macro key. If you're letting sin tank then I might as well afk with a book on the devour and frighten hoykeys

And as usual the main point is ignored.

You're still gimping your capabilities when it isn't really necessary.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see a point in getting end game gear without going to TW or PvP.

AriesBreath - Raging Tide wrote: »

I don't think you read what I wrote properly. If you're already end game, you don't need to go aps build.

My barb wasn't end game he only had vana gear and tt. Even with some of the end gear barbs, going aps is more fun because tanking as a tiger is boring as heck.
Farming gear =/= end game. And 5aps sins with average gear can pretty much solo most instances just as efficiently, if not more efficiently anyway.

Sure a sin is efficient but the point is enjoying your character and learn it. Why would someone build a sin when they can make a barb and stash gear with bm and seeker? Aps demon barb has an advantage in individual pvp so over way more fun to play with.


No, I've never played an aps barb. I see no reason to. I made my alt barb as a buff slave and to help pull catas in smaller faction TWs, back in the day. I have played aps chars before however, and it bored me to tears.

Base on your response I'd say you were bored to tears because you never challenged yourself. Go beyond what ppl say you cannot do and just do it. Aps characters have challenges as well. Timing of skills, apoth, etc becomes important for hard to kill bosses and even in pvp. Don't only do the dailies and weak instances, anyone would be bored to tears.

I will concede that this is true. I've not found any reason to go back to TT (or any PvE instance really, besides BH) recently, and hence have not done so.

things change. You will never know unless you explore. See you play like a stereotypical cleric or magic class. You don't see the fun in messing with the heavy class.

Also,


How far back is "a while back"? If you're so up to date on the status of bosses and dungeons you must not have quit that long ago.


I quit about 1 year ago. The main changes to the game also happened around that time. I explored all I could explored and finally decided to call it quits.

Response in red

On my phone now, and can't be bothered to tab/multi quote from the original posts while on this so I will respond based on memory.

@MagicChu,

Challenging yourself in this game really doesn't mean much. If I really wanted to challenge myself as a cleric, I would go to every instance with 4k hp squish sins, and I have from time to time but it ends up being more frustrating than fun.

It's very curious to me why I would have to gimp my gameplay or gear in order to "challenge" myself in this game. I don't think the level of the "fun factor" would outweigh the time and effort needed.

Apart from that though, RL has just dragged me away from the game too much to invest more time than I already am in this game.

@wallpurga
This discussion is really starting to sound like the one with Arawin in the other thread.

When going to group PvP I prioritize my group over myself, so I would usually try to fill any role that was vastly needed. It just so happens that I actually enjoy playing support/healer as well. The fact that you're saying that even if you had end game gear, you'd never pull a cata in TW sounds like Arawin saying he doesn't like healing in TW. These are 2 of the most crucial roles in TW and are usually lacking in people to fill, but you would rather play a pseudo DD for your own fulfillment than filling that role.

This is going to come to the same conclusion that I came to with Arawin; people will do whatever they want regardless of effectiveness as long as what they are doing is fun.

Oh, and I thought that the trend was already in season a year and a half ago.