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fist/bow archer or no?

LuboBG - DreamweaverLuboBG - Dreamweaver Posts: 5 Arc User
edited July 2013 in Archer
As i nothiced with bow u get very slow chi and i know u can be 4 aps bb:laughb:laughase with fc gold fists at 100 got 200k rep already.So, fist for chi building and rank 8 bow or no.
Post edited by LuboBG - Dreamweaver on

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  • Walpurga - DreamweaverWalpurga - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,028 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    >rank 8 bow

    >2013

    >raps at 75K on Dreamweaver, max

    You smoking? Get G16 bow, work on G16 armor first so you're not a oneshot to every person, and then make a spare APS set.

    Also, you can be 5aps without sacrificing significant bow damage

    http://pwcalc.com/fcd1b331e57f3420
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  • Elenacostel - Heavens TearElenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Fists / Claws are still viable. I use S3 claws all the time for PvE. In fact, I have 146 Strength even when I use my bow, as I find it cumbersome swapping Strength ornaments and such.

    You can get 5 aps with Gorenox Vanities and R8, but I recommend you aim for S3 claws and S3 bow (either R9 or Nirvana).
  • Yoong - DreamweaverYoong - Dreamweaver Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    My build was almost exactly what Walpurga posted, i had a second band of heaven's jail and a bigger str tome so i had less str points. Having that kind of aps for permaspark is great dmg and lots of fun. I used it for chi and it was great DD if you're sparking more than a few times per boss. Used aps fist swaps frequently until i got my g16 bow at which point the bow dmg dwarfed anything else i was doing. Once i get g16 fists, i might swap to it for pve every once in awhile again for my aps fix :3
  • FlyingStab - ArchosaurFlyingStab - Archosaur Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Hey, i was planning on making a fist/bow build too but i choose a different set up for that. Basically im using the R8cast bonus set so i can use the +1200 and .1int bonus from it with both sets.

    With fist:

    http://pwcalc.com/dd3eed00a0268be5

    With bow

    http://pwcalc.com/03e9e3ae27008fca


    I use the HA G16 helm and robe because the str req for fist/claw are basically the same that for the HA helm and doing this way i get more extra HP from bonus and refines. This build end up with 85 attk lvl with bow and 70 attk lvl 5aps with fist and both with +8k hp at +5 refines mark. Ive modify the chest to add with .05 because i will have to reroll till get int on it (it will take several rolls but is not close to impossible, lot of people already have their int r8cast chest) and to add the 200+ extra HP from r8cast because pwicalc is outdated on r8cast bonus. Then on the bow build ive added too the +7attk lvl to compensate again pwicalc failing but i hadnt add any possible other addon i can get on r8cast set so the char should end up having higher HP and def but that is random (i got 11 addons pending to add).

    I already making this char (lvl86 with the 200k rep already in) and farming the molds and badges on my seeker main so its going to be well dressed as soon he hits lvl100. How do u guys think is going to be pve and pvp wise? For pvp i will use perma bow set up and for pve i will be switching both builds. Im on a pve server and I DO LIKE PVE, so call me carebear if u want but im interested on pve results too (i want another char that can defend every pav on warsong) and i do pvp on TW and NW (I had never turn on pk status on my seeker that has 11k+ HP and G16+10 dual blades). For TWs im planning on making him a G15 bow with spirit blackhole (roll and roll till get it, no soul shatter) for mass BoA purge and then switch to g16.


    Thank you very much for ur feedbacks.
  • Walpurga - DreamweaverWalpurga - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,028 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I doubt you'll get that kind of rolls on your G16 cape/helm
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  • Elenacostel - Heavens TearElenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Interesting, I had not considered HA helm. Let's see...

    Assuming Traceless Dimension, which requires 146 Strength, you need 7 more Strength to wear the HA Helm. However, on top of this, you lose the 6~12 Dex that comes with the LA Hat, and you get no benefit from the 6~12 Str on the HA Helm when using a bow. It does give a benefit when using claws, so it's not completely useless, but for PvP, it's useless.

    So basically, you lose 13~19 Dex in order to wear the HA helm, and gain 13~19 Str instead.

    Now, the HA Helm has 209 more HP in terms of base stats. Refines are the same, as well as the cape stats. In terms of the set bonus, HA has 200 more HP (700 vs 900).

    So basically , you gain 409 HP if you wear the HA helm / cape.

    13~19 Dex vs 409 HP.

    That's actually not bad. Certainly worth thinking about. I might even do this.
  • Mr_SilverWan - Raging TideMr_SilverWan - Raging Tide Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I rather have an arhcer with a sword, it is easier to get a tome for extra str and dex, swords do more damage than fists and are faster however i like more the look of fists than that of swords.

    My chosen weapon for archer is the sling, crossbow is too slow but higher attk and bow is just rudimentary
  • Decus - DreamweaverDecus - Dreamweaver Posts: 5,033 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I rather have an arhcer with a sword, it is easier to get a tome for extra str and dex, swords do more damage than fists and are faster however i like more the look of fists than that of swords.

    My chosen weapon for archer is the sling, crossbow is too slow but higher attk and bow is just rudimentary

    A sword is not faster than a claw or fists. Also, as far as endgame is concerned, the only option worth considering is a bow (unless you're one of the hipster g16 sling/xbow archers). It's just the way the game was made. The purge proc only shows up on bows.
    Proving that not only archers do math since 2009. b:victory
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  • Walpurga - DreamweaverWalpurga - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,028 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    G16 weapon > G15 with purge. At least you can do damage with higher base + 40 atk levels

    Don't hate on the sling; crossbow is meh but sling is guaranteed 2 socket, fast, really benefits from demon QS, and awesome dps.
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  • Decus - DreamweaverDecus - Dreamweaver Posts: 5,033 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    G16 weapon > G15 with purge. At least you can do damage with higher base + 40 atk levels

    Don't hate on the sling; crossbow is meh but sling is guaranteed 2 socket, fast, really benefits from demon QS, and awesome dps.

    I suppose I wasn't clear enough. Let me correct that. A r9(99) bow is the most logical option as far as endgame gear is concerned.
    Proving that not only archers do math since 2009. b:victory
    Current math challenge: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1029711&page=45
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "Any skills that can be used to kill you will interrupt BB when successful." -truekossy | "...Sage archers are kind of like Mac owners. They are proud of the weirdest and most unnecessary things." -Aesthor | "We ALL know Jesus doesn't play PWI. He may have suffered a lot for humanity, but he'd NEVER punish himself this way." -Abstractive | "I approve of bananas." -SashaGray
  • Walpurga - DreamweaverWalpurga - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,028 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Easier said than obtained though, lol b:laugh
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  • HideYoHubby - ArchosaurHideYoHubby - Archosaur Posts: 995 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    The purge proc only shows up on bows.

    There are purge poles :o.
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  • Quilue - SanctuaryQuilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    What you really need are Purge R8r hammers so barbs can AOE purge all over the place!
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  • Walpurga - DreamweaverWalpurga - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,028 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    barb hammer has purge. Pretty sure either Kronos or Fenrir_Wolf or both (possibly more) on DW have spirit blackhole hammers (jace confirm please lol)

    EDIT: holy **** I never thought of it but a lot of barb aoes are eligible for SBH (slam, arma, swell)!
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  • Decus - DreamweaverDecus - Dreamweaver Posts: 5,033 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I am fairly sure that it was pretty obvious that the thread dealt with archer weapons. Hence, my statement about purge only appearing on bows (as far as a viable endgame weapon, anyway). To be fair, yes purge also appears on an xbow, but it's hardly worth considering.
    Proving that not only archers do math since 2009. b:victory
    Current math challenge: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1029711&page=45
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "Any skills that can be used to kill you will interrupt BB when successful." -truekossy | "...Sage archers are kind of like Mac owners. They are proud of the weirdest and most unnecessary things." -Aesthor | "We ALL know Jesus doesn't play PWI. He may have suffered a lot for humanity, but he'd NEVER punish himself this way." -Abstractive | "I approve of bananas." -SashaGray
  • XShadowshotx - Heavens TearXShadowshotx - Heavens Tear Posts: 278 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I know archers who were stated for fists who have or are now stating away from fists because its purely PVE and they are going r9s3 for PvP. If you wanna farm with your archer, I'd just suggest leveling a sin. They get the benefit of BP and have a mastery for damage bonus and you can share all your aps gear with them. Archer's should be stating pure dex for end game plain and simple. I see some archer's saying they're 5.0 and I just sit there and lol because it doesn't matter.

    Also in response to the Polehammers with Blackhole, plenty of barbs on the HT server have it as well. And BMs with the r8 recast poleaxe have it on there too.
  • Quilue - SanctuaryQuilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Well when you're R999 and you run with other people with R999, your squad would probably kill something in 1 spark cycle, so no need for fists really.

    Although if you can get triple -int fists and have 5.0 with R999 set bonus it'd be fun.
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  • PotatoHeadQR - DreamweaverPotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,507 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    the problem with HA hat/cape is that you don't get the g16 set bonuses of 15def+20attack which far outweights the hp bonuses. ofc I'm assuming that you switch to full g16 for pvp.

    I know archers who were stated for fists who have or are now stating away from fists because its purely PVE and they are going r9s3 for PvP. If you wanna farm with your archer, I'd just suggest leveling a sin. They get the benefit of BP and have a mastery for damage bonus and you can share all your aps gear with them. Archer's should be stating pure dex for end game plain and simple. I see some archer's saying they're 5.0 and I just sit there and lol because it doesn't matter.

    cant stash r8 chest and daggers; you'll need more -int gear to hit 5aps with daggers than fists. BP point is valid but you can get hp returns with fists. while it wont matter if the archer is 5aps fist in an OP squad it wont matter if he's not pure dex either. it will hardly matter in pvp with r9rr; the value of a few stat points is overestimated.
    you only purge once #yopo
  • NW_Shinoby - DreamweaverNW_Shinoby - Dreamweaver Posts: 113 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    >rank 8 bow

    >2013

    >raps at 75K on Dreamweaver, max

    You smoking? Get G16 bow, work on G16 armor first so you're not a oneshot to every person, and then make a spare APS set.

    Also, you can be 5aps without sacrificing significant bow damage

    http://pwcalc.com/fcd1b331e57f3420

    Actually LuboBG is my archer and he uses my aps set but as archer g16 armors are more suted for archer so i may delete it. To start farming TT 99-g16 armors ** it
  • Decus - DreamweaverDecus - Dreamweaver Posts: 5,033 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    the problem with HA hat/cape is that you don't get the g16 set bonuses of 15def+20attack which far outweights the hp bonuses. ofc I'm assuming that you switch to full g16 for pvp.

    Nah that was in reference to using just the hat and cape + r999 gear. Otherwise, yea, it wouldn't be wise.
    Proving that not only archers do math since 2009. b:victory
    Current math challenge: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1029711&page=45
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "Any skills that can be used to kill you will interrupt BB when successful." -truekossy | "...Sage archers are kind of like Mac owners. They are proud of the weirdest and most unnecessary things." -Aesthor | "We ALL know Jesus doesn't play PWI. He may have suffered a lot for humanity, but he'd NEVER punish himself this way." -Abstractive | "I approve of bananas." -SashaGray
  • FlyingStab - ArchosaurFlyingStab - Archosaur Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I think most of people are missing an extremly important point, not everyone hve the money nor the time to farm for being rrr9. I have not a single doubt that if u are a rrr9 full josd +12 u arnt going to need an aps set and u are much better having a rrr9 set instead of mixing r8cast with g16 (do any one really mention contrary?). Now for many, many people having such set is something they will never even bother and they need to found something more realistic for their budget/time. The sets I mention on my post are r8cast with g16 and +5 with flawless shards, basically getting the rep+ring+rrr9 weapon cost many many many many times more than making the set im proposing and if i do that i will have 1 ring and 1 weapon but my char would be naked. R9 isnt for everyone and u can still have lot of fun on this game without being r9.

    As ive commented on my post im not only interested in PVP with this char but also PVE and i have already seen a good 5aps archers take down bosses much faster with claws than with his g16 bow, thats why ive presented this options:

    With fist:

    http://pwcalc.com/dd3eed00a0268be5

    With bow

    http://pwcalc.com/03e9e3ae27008fca


    So i only have to switch weapon and gloves for being 5aps or bow and still having more than 8k hp unbuffed that is more than most archers have(at least on my server) and a good amount of attk lvl.
  • Yoong - DreamweaverYoong - Dreamweaver Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Here's my current archer off the top of my head, i'll restat more to dex when i get around to it.
    http://pwcalc.com/96d65260385693f7

    Here's an approx of what she'll be in aps swap, need to get one more str ring engraving and badges for peak of clouds b:laugh I'm not too worried about defenses as i'm expecting to be another DD not a tank. Most of my gear gets stashed to bm/sin too ^_^
    http://pwcalc.com/0005f774685ea258

    PS i'm cheap and i like immacs atm, dont worry about it b:surrender
  • Walpurga - DreamweaverWalpurga - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,028 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    It's not about the r9rr; it's just that archer has the option to still keep claws after going r9rr
    Again the thing is you use G16 HA cape/helm, which means you lose out on G16 bonuses in bow mode. That sucks because that bonus is one of the best things about G16

    So you'd do well to 1. go claw instead of fist. 4 STR makes all the difference and 2. Work out a build where you end up full g16 LA with a bow, which is the most important part.
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  • FlyingStab - ArchosaurFlyingStab - Archosaur Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    It's not about the r9rr; it's just that archer has the option to still keep claws after going r9rr
    Again the thing is you use G16 HA cape/helm, which means you lose out on G16 bonuses in bow mode. That sucks because that bonus is one of the best things about G16

    So you'd do well to 1. go claw instead of fist. 4 STR makes all the difference and 2. Work out a build where you end up full g16 LA with a bow, which is the most important part.

    I know i loose 5 attk lvl and 15 def lvl but i do get the 1200 HP (r8cast) + 409HP (G16 HA instead of G16 LA) so 1609HP add more survability than 15 def lvl on most situations, so basically Im mostly loosing just the 5 attk lvl in order to get the chance to be aps (trade 5attk lvl for -.1 int on completion and the chance of getting int too on chest).
  • Walpurga - DreamweaverWalpurga - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,028 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I mean the 15 atk levels and 20 def levels that make G16 semi-competitive lol
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  • Bhavyy - Raging TideBhavyy - Raging Tide Posts: 1,083 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    No.f:hush
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  • Metalogue - ArchosaurMetalogue - Archosaur Posts: 320 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    No. Lack of fist mastery, extra strength points, addition of bow mastery... use a bow.. it's not like you can benefit from bloodpaint.
  • PotatoHeadQR - DreamweaverPotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,507 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    No. Lack of fist mastery, extra strength points, addition of bow mastery... use a bow.. it's not like you can benefit from bloodpaint.

    got numbers?
    you only purge once #yopo
  • Neferhotep - Lost CityNeferhotep - Lost City Posts: 276 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    as my archers only 90 yet i have fist + bow, while my bow being a 80er gold bow + 5 and my lvl 85er green FC fists are +3, i prefer them at "?" bosses. I have every aps gear possible at this lvl and im demon, most of the str needed comes from gear. And i out- dd myself with fist at bosses a lot.

    Its mainly due to the fact that i can nearly constantly spark with a little help of CE or wind shield till next full spark. I love using bows but the problem is that debuffs are usually timed after the sins demon spark and i wait with full sparks till bm uses HF or Veno amps while theyre waiting for the sin while the sin is too lazy to hit the button for demon spark. And when i finally decide to use it, the bm HFs right when my spark goes off.

    So at "?" bosses i usually debuff with bow->wait for the first HF-> demon spark with bow-> switching to fist when DS wears off and continue with Fists and DS
    All that as long as i have no advantage with bows (moving bosses, strong AoE or AoE debuffs when melee) and when im not the tank.

    With r9 i guess your shooting power is strong enough to out dd every fist and ill restat more dex when im getting to that point (if i get to it at all) but before that fists really are too useful :P
    I like potatoes <(O~O)>
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