Nation War Regional Map Size Discussion

v4liance · June 2013

Hey everyone,

We're definitely aware that a lot of players are unhappy with the large map size, given that they were designed to hold 4 servers' worth of players simultaneously.

Right now, we're looking into possible ways to resolve this issue. We definitely want to make sure you're all able to get some fun fighting in, and having an empty map can definitely be a problem.

I can't make any promises or guarantees on how or when this will be resolved, but I wanted you all to know that this is a high priority for us, and we'll be working with the dev team to find a solution.

UPDATE here!

- Val

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 · June 2013

TL;DR We are in desperate need of either a smaller map or server-vs-server as this giant map encourages winning empty battles which is extremely boring and is the worst iteration yet of NW.

Here's my experience:

In the very first NW map the best strategy for my team was to make a beeline for the enemy HQ and to try to trap everyone inside by blocking them off. This was bad and I'm glad they changed it.

In the second map my team found that this didn't work any more and the new optimum strategy was to go searching for the strongest battles where we fought harder opponents and tried to prevent them from spearheading an attack on our nation. NW became a lot more challenging and fun.

The current map is so big that there simply aren't any hard battles and whenever my team puts all the members into one land it's just a one-sided battle with few points. The new strategy as far as I can tell is to go to far away lands and win mostly empty battles. If you get a crystal map to yourself you can win it in a few minutes and get like 1500 points.

As a test this last NW I took in my TT90+5 cleric alt (way below average gear these days because I only use her for buffing). I spent 90% of my time on my archer and sought out whatever "challenging" fights I could find. I spent 10% of my time on the cleric doing little more than entering nearly empty instances and AFKing or digging a crystal and then AFKing (popping back every 30s or so to point her at the next crystal).

My R9 third cast archer I was actually actively playing got 21k contrib
My TT90 cleric I was mostly AFK with got 12.5k contrib.

We've basically gone from rewarding seeking out challenging battles to rewarding seeking out nearly empty battles. With this update my charm usage dropped from 900k charm use (constantly fighting) to 100k charm use (all battles nearly empty).

The trend that I see going forward is that all these empty lands are going to encourage more people to bring along their nearly AFK alts which further dilutes scores. People's mains will get an even smaller share of tokens now as nearly AFK alts become more dominant.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands · June 2013

I just hope that if they change the map for a smaller one that we will keep the new battles.

OoArCsTeRoO - Sanctuary · June 2013

Asty said it best.

PvP is dead on Sanctuary, NW was a decent way to get decent PvP action and by making the map such huge you made it dead to. When NW started we had 300 people per nation now we get 180 per nation, out of which ~50-70 are probably alts.

If nothing is done soon NW would sadly become an alt PvE farming instance.

slamstone · June 2013

v4liance wrote: »

I can't make any promises or guarantees on how or when this will be resolved, but I wanted you all to know that this is a high priority for us, and we'll be working with the dev team to find a solution.

- Val

congrats you managed to actually kill NW in 1 single stupid update.

..fact is simple since a main with over 25k soulforce that joined battles and actively particapated got almost same amount of tokens like one system tray closed alt that went only into battles and did nothing (same level of soulforce)...same level same nation same war

the conclusion is simple there is no point in actually getting involved or activelly participating in NW. U didnt screwed up only the map size U SCREWED UP THE REWARDING SYSTEM ALSO.

you may discuss how many pages you want fact is simple NW will get less and less competitive by the week...and at this rate i guarantee you that in 1 month max u wont see those that have high gear and above (and by high i dont mean +10-+12 josd) participating in nw anymore (only those that still need the untradeable amount of tokens)

and no you wont do anything about it: see any reference to whatever u meant to do in the last year

NW Times - we're working on it
Nirvana cave - we're working on it
Server vs Server - we're working on it
Spawn Kill - we're working on it (you worked it alright by making no one in that land besides the attacker)

some many other aspects that you're "working on it"....

Sudqi - Sanctuary · June 2013

its look you guys not ready for servers fight yet , hope if you can make it back same 2nd map ... 2nd map was fair enough and it solve already base lock ,, yah sometime we have base lock but it will unlock very fast ..

about crystal fight one i hope if you can make gards little more front spawn point and make them hit harder like towers in TW at spawn point to avoid spam kill from OP ppl and at least can get chance to re buff..

also make like 15 seconds before crystal fight start to make sure not first person enter battle can turn all crystal before defense ppl be in ..

finally hope if u back add NW npc from morai place cuz its really crowd and lagy at main city

and i have little advice with GMs XD hope u guys if u play with us this game ... not as gm but as normal ppl .. cuz what i see its look u have miss something about ur updates and not give real players need from this game

.. maybe u already do that

seitori · June 2013

V4l, there may be some who're whining about it incessantly right now, but there are many more of us who actually like the new map alot (Cause we aren't just 1-trick Ponies, we learned quickly to adapt new tactics to this new map ya gave us)...b:victory

Some of the reasons are:

1-Much faster travel times between battlefields (now if only you'd fix the chat typing problem you get when you travel over a new territory ~_~' I hate to have to keep re-clicking the chat line 10 times while traveling to finish 1 simple (8 worded) sentence @_@,)

2-It has so far become impossible for super squads to achieve base locking maneuvers; emphasis on (So Far)

3-Now you have a map where many of those who unlike the rest of us (who're aren't atleast R8/G16 or better) have now got a decent capacity to sneak around major battles and attack each other fields in the rear of those fields (if a hole opens up for them) and actually achieve some pretty decent contribution points themselves (especially with the newer battlefield types)

4-the actual Map size allows us alot more time, to redirect our squads & fortify the fields that lie between the bases and the interdicting super squads with craploads of our best fighters, to deny them any capacity for base locking....

All-in-all V4l, I think the new map holds alot more potential then it does draw-backs and anyways its only been 2 NWs on it so far and let me tell you round 2 was alot more serious in its chaos then the 1st one was (and the reasons simple~ most of those worth their salts had been debating and planning their new strategies on how to counter the size problem & as such are finding that they no longer are really needing to constantly Q_Q over it... So most those still doing it are either simply not adapting aswell as others, or are simply mad that they only learned how to rush foreward immediately and baselock & spawn kill everyone else for their sole tactic and now whine constantly because they can't achieve that anymore...)b:pleased

((All-in-all though, the easiest way to achieve a fuller and even more entertaining NW map though, would be to finally start Merging the servers that use the same (Server name base) like you did with the EU servers... Reasons: 1-Server populaces are becoming thinner (and even the combined populaces would still be nothing compared to what they were on HT-server alone in years 1-2 of {PWi} & 2-It would save you guys some player losses if everyone on Archo-server "for instance" if they were merged with a populace like HT-server who has probably over 200+% there own populace) And they wouldn't even have to abandon their old characters and then re-roll new ones to get on HT-server anymore to get there....)

But never forget its still only been (1-week) since the new map came out & its still to early for everyone to jump to conclusions about the map in just 2-NWs!??!!!!????? So you should give it some time still))b:thanks

Rubybeard - Archosaur · June 2013

we demmand the old NW!! (capture the flag NW) b:laughb:laugh

v4liance · June 2013

Hey folks, got an update for you!

Our dev team has promised to look into the regional map issue, and we're right now hoping to be able to revert the size back to the previous version, while still keeping the two new battlefields.

I realize that some players actually enjoy the larger, more spacious regional map, but this map size was designed with far greater numbers of players in mind, and overall, we believe it would be best if we could reduce the map size, unless and until we can implement server vs. server Nation Wars.

We don't yet have an estimated time for when this potential change will go live, and it's not 100% guaranteed yet that we'll be getting this fix.

But I'll keep you all posted here!

- Val

Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear · June 2013

would it be possible to work faster to implement server wars instead of modifying the old map to accommodate the new battlefields?

v4liance · June 2013

Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

would it be possible to work faster to implement server wars instead of modifying the old map to accommodate the new battlefields?

Hey Magnanimous, unfortunately, getting server v. server NW is going to be a timely process, if it's even possible.

I wouldn't want to force players to have to deal with an improperly balanced map for the whole time it takes us to get that update implemented, especially since we really can't promise that we'll ever get that change made.

That said, I promise that we *are* working on getting server v. server Nation Wars, and this map fix won't interfere with our working on that.

- Val

skaitavia · June 2013

From what I have seen and experienced myself Val, in my opinion, the most ideal solution would be this:

- Revert the map size to the same as before this update while keeping the two new battlefields.
- Keep the current player limit per instance of Capture the Flag as 30 per side.

Diversifying the battlefield in terms of what war is what really twists things up. It will be up to your team to decide where to place these battles, as a bridge battle takes a lot more time to finish than a CtF battle.

Psytrac - Dreamweaver · June 2013

and make the map battle random, not predetermined. these should shuffle each time an instance is generated.

Vanflyheight - Heavens Tear · June 2013

why not just reduce the map down to normal map 2 side and just make the battlefield switchable between the three different battles for each nw. right now its an idea so dont know how well it would go if it was to be implemented.

Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear · June 2013

Now that permission was given to release the full details on how to get tokens (or how not to get 0 tokens), there will be a horde of alts that will flood into nation wars and start abusing the system to leach off free tokens from those who earn it the legit way. Alt population will go to the roof (from 5%~10% to probably 20% of the NW player base).

Half the solution was already out there on PWCN At the time of release of new battlefields (and server wars), the old (smaller) map was still in use implemented with the 2 new battlefields (bigger map only came afterwards).

Just push the changes through without breaking something else.

And to point out how to abuse the system to get tokens (because its gonna take half a brain cell to figure this out anyways):
Run into an empty Capture-the-flag map, hit the npc for 5mins, and done: you can start getting a sht load of tokens for your alt(s).

Clergywoman - Raging Tide · July 2013

the advent of nation wars was fantastic! it revitalized our server. people were making squads, got prepared, making new tactics and generally were looking forward to the next nw to fight the other strong teams and have fun in the competition.

now, squads are utterly useless on maps with mostly 1 or 2 enemies. nation wars degenerated to boredom wars. it is to boring to attend, nini nw. b:sad

Desdi - Sanctuary · July 2013

Thanks for the heads up, not that I can participate in NW myself but I know a lot of people are unhappy with this latest NW update.

Sudqi - Sanctuary · July 2013

v4liance wrote: »

Hey folks, got an update for you!

Our dev team has promised to look into the regional map issue, and we're right now hoping to be able to revert the size back to the previous version, while still keeping the two new battlefields.

I realize that some players actually enjoy the larger, more spacious regional map, but this map size was designed with far greater numbers of players in mind, and overall, we believe it would be best if we could reduce the map size, unless and until we can implement server vs. server Nation Wars.

We don't yet have an estimated time for when this potential change will go live, and it's not 100% guaranteed yet that we'll be getting this fix.

But I'll keep you all posted here!

- Val

hurraayyyyyyyy this is good news ^_^ lool if that mean u guys took with my advice

??? cuz this is exactly what i was try to say b:laugh

trands · July 2013

v4liance wrote: »

Hey folks, got an update for you!

Our dev team has promised to look into the regional map issue, and we're right now hoping to be able to revert the size back to the previous version, while still keeping the two new battlefields.

I realize that some players actually enjoy the larger, more spacious regional map, but this map size was designed with far greater numbers of players in mind, and overall, we believe it would be best if we could reduce the map size, unless and until we can implement server vs. server Nation Wars.

We don't yet have an estimated time for when this potential change will go live, and it's not 100% guaranteed yet that we'll be getting this fix.

But I'll keep you all posted here!

- Val

Yay, good news. Like Asterelle pointed out, the previous map was a really good size to encourage big battles. I think the new maps would be really fun when having a real chalange in there.

Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

would it be possible to work faster to implement server wars instead of modifying the old map to accommodate the new battlefields?

Personally, I prefer the map reduced. I doubt server vs server would be able to find good time slots that would really bring all servers on the map. At the best, I hope server vs server would be an addition and not a replacement of the intra server nw.

ApocaIypto - Dreamweaver · July 2013

any update on this?

trufflles · July 2013

ApocaIypto - Dreamweaver wrote: »

any update on this?

"we're working on it" or "coming soooooooon.....next year"b:laugh

no worries 1 month of 2x solved the QQ...and now it can get burried till the late september update.

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

they also added the older smaller NW map back into the PWCN client (with edit: 128 lands or something).

I assume that is meant for us so now we have to wait for that to work its way across the ocean
(edit: arround 2 months or more).
I guess this means they've 100% given up on server vs server

metalmana · July 2013

Yes, This MAP IS TOO BIG!! HUGE map like this r good for HUGE country with a lot of ppls w HUGE D. f:shy

this map is too HUGE!!

Ahira - Lost City · July 2013

Just completely revert it- nobody likes bridge or crystal wars anyway!

ovenusarmanio · July 2013

Ahira - Lost City wrote: »

Just completely revert it- nobody likes bridge or crystal wars anyway!

Speak for yourself, I love having new battles. It breaks the monotony.

Ahira - Lost City · July 2013

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

Speak for yourself, I love having new battles. It breaks the monotony.

I'm not just speaking for myself actually! b:chuckle Sure the first few times they were interesting but now they're just effectively breaking up the endless fun of cap the flag! b:angry

skaitavia · July 2013

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

Speak for yourself, I love having new battles. It breaks the monotony.

This. Personally I love the new battles.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands · July 2013

Ahira - Lost City wrote: »

Just completely revert it- nobody likes bridge or crystal wars anyway!

I love the new battles. Doing capture the flag over and over again is boring.

Ahira - Lost City · July 2013

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

I love the new battles. Doing capture the flag over and over again is boring.

nuuuuu b:infuriated

Kniraven - Lost City · July 2013

New battles are great, i avoid capture the flag like the plague.
Actually beat (admittedly they came in when we already had thirty points) Adroit/Baits party in Crystal battle Sunday.

Next battle we were in flag.
Adroit got the flag, game over.
F-,k the flag.

evolution1234 · July 2013

any updates on upcoming NW changes?

OoArCsTeRoO - Sanctuary · July 2013

Can we get an answer of the estimated time the map size would be reverted? The active player base for NW is dwindling with every NW and the alt player base size is increasing, this should be taken as a sev 1 and fixed asap.

Nation War Regional Map Size Discussion

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