Curious About Damage :0

HexiKiss - Harshlands · July 2013

So I'm planning on making a veno but haven't settled on a build yet xD I'm feeling Ha/AA is a good way to go due to the fact I know I wanna dps in fox form but still do some good-decent human form damage.
Anyhow as the title states I'm curious what is the.highest amount of damage you ha e ever hit in both pve an pvp? Also throw in a calc of your build if you can/are willing/are up to it.
I'm mainly interested in the Pure or hybrid HA built venos but feel free to throw in input if your AA or LA as well :)b:cute

Raziyal - Archosaur · July 2013

HexiKiss - Harshlands wrote: »

So I'm planning on making a veno but haven't settled on a build yet xD I'm feeling Ha/AA is a good way to go due to the fact I know I wanna dps in fox form but still do some good-decent human form damage.
Anyhow as the title states I'm curious what is the.highest amount of damage you ha e ever hit in both pve an pvp? Also throw in a calc of your build if you can/are willing/are up to it.
I'm mainly interested in the Pure or hybrid HA built venos but feel free to throw in input if your AA or LA as well :)b:cute

Raziyal is a 101 HA veno, My damage at the moment is worse than i want it to be, but mind you i don't have my 3rd cast Heavy armor and non of my gear is refined. Meaning that my attack will indefinably be alot higher than what i have now.

Dps in fox does nothing, don't bother getting aps gear unless this veno is just for fun, then go ahead. if your being serious just go with the full HA or Mix hybrid.

My highest damage on my veno that i have done.. was 87k with Debuffs and HF on a boss in fc with my Nirvana second cast wep.

In Pvp my highest was 21k with a bm luckily doing a HF and me amping the barb before i hit him, mind you i was really freaked and though it was a glitch because the barb was still alive but then could have just had a charm tick or mor hp than i thought.

I like HA veno's it gives me a chance to expand my skill as a veno, i love being able to withstand an attack from most of the heavy hitted with them saying wtf... i love having bramble on and attacking BM's in TW as they just die (most of the time)

mistressmuerta · July 2013

hi im a pure Ha veno...im built mainly for NW but i do like to 1v1 from time to time....however i do not restrict my play to fox or human form.....the most pve dmg i have ever done was a Top + fossilized curse that was amped/mind broken for 386k...in pvp the max dmg i have ever hit on a person was the same combo for 32k crit....http://pwcalc.com/701b1b80d468aadf

HexiKiss - Harshlands · July 2013

mistressmuerta wrote: »

hi im a pure Ha veno...im built mainly for NW but i do like to 1v1 from time to time....however i do not restrict my play to fox or human form.....the most pve dmg i have ever done was a Top + fossilized curse that was amped/mind broken for 386k...in pvp the max dmg i have ever hit on a person was the same combo for 32k crit....http://pwcalc.com/701b1b80d468aadf

Holy cows how much did that build cost ya? I see you have the r9r weapon if I'm correct? Why not just go full r9?

tweakz · July 2013

http://pwcalc.com/701b1b80d468aadf

-I'm rank 8, +10, S2, Nirvana armors, and have more matk than this R9s3 in my defensive gears w/o swap from alt acct (12648-17765)! - (am in my crappiest gears available). The patk and atk rate is a joke when compared to real melee toons with much cheaper equips. Now with pet evolution; are pets atk not based on our matk?

Are people going this build to fool other people in PvP, or is there some other logical reason for it? It's not like you can get BP.

SanChan - Heavens Tear · July 2013

tweakz u realy dont like other builds except for AA dont you ? As for Veno i still think they where entendet as a Light armor class but then changed to AA. When you look at the skill set and the way the 6 original classes were that would be logical. Human 1 HA 1 AA Winged Elf 1 LA 1 AA and Untamed 1 HA and 1 LA would be alltogether 2.AA 2.HA and 2.LA.
But whatever Veno is the only class where all 3 Armor types work realy great.
As for the skillset the cast spells are more effected by the weapon then the Magic atk itself no Veno skill is like Deals 200% magic attk they are all like magic atk + % weapon dmg + skill dmg

Btw. Pet dmg is based on weapon and rings.

Kittennice - Heavens Tear · July 2013

I'm sure I don't do much as other venos but my highest was 23kish with TT-80 axes (melee damage of course)

You don't want to know my highest magic attack
xDDD

I'm in the process of getting a better weapon
But that's it for now

Desdi - Sanctuary · July 2013

HexiKiss - Harshlands wrote: »

Holy cows how much did that build cost ya? I see you have the r9r weapon if I'm correct? Why not just go full r9?

One reason would be account stashing and general sharing among toons. It's much more effective to invest in one armor set that can be shared with multiple toons instead of investing separately on different toons.

However, from a different point of view the coin spent on that particular set-up is not very effective for what you get in return. Let's assume coin isn't an issue and get a typical R999 set-up. You get less a little less HP and a little less physical defence but you gain much more magic defence, much higher magic attack, a little less physical attack, a few more defence levels and attack levels. At lvl105 that Venomancer can also hit 800 magic for the damage multiplier.

Mind you, to each and their own, I'm not bashing anyone's set up but because of the current gap between gear sets it's not very cost effective to invest heavily in HA Nirvana right now however you have to consider things like in my first paragraph; sharing gear and your PvE/PvP preferences. I just wanted to clarify it.

On topic;

I'm mainly interested in the Pure or hybrid HA built venos but feel free to throw in input if your AA or LA as well

I remember hitting up to 60k with ease in PvE with my G16 Nirvana +7 glaive. Now I have a R999 +10 weapon and much more attack levels so the results will be different but I got it recently and didn't get to test things around with my new gear.

In PvP, I don't rely too much on my physical attack, I mostly use skills for the debuffs, so I don't know.

EDIT: I was talking about my fox form attack skills above not my magic attacks. I hit about 400k-500k in PvE with Nirvana Glaive and 20k highest crit in PvP. I haven't done any PvP ever since R999 so I don't know. PvE wise, I haven't tested my max damage yet either but it's probably much higher. My build is pure magic, 3 vit 700 magic.

mistressmuerta · July 2013

TBH the gear cost a lot less than full r93..... and i do stash armor with my seeker....by the time the gear player gap closes they will release more gear which i can lvl up to again...the main reason for going Ha was to boost the power of fossilized curse when combined with tree of protection which hits most players even other arcanes for massive dmg..my original build had 24khp but lacked def lvls so i revised it. Also Desdi if you are going to compare make sure the gear/tome and equips are the same grade like this.... http://pwcalc.com/553296e01a9a803b ...still not as effective but closes the gap some..the other reason for going ha...was the dmg combination with demon fox wallop when the crit bonus procs(procs way more than 20% btw)....alot of people have purify proc weapons but it almost never procs with my attack rate...and when i get it off during an armor break/amp my 5k auto attacks become 10k crits thats 10k every second while my monkey keeps them locked while doing his dmg as well..if i do not get off a myriad then its only around 6k every crit auto attack...... thats also one of the reason venomancers do not get weapon % based dmg and low additional dmg to their melee attacks..the developers factor in myriad as a variable into all of our skills...My magic dmg also hits pretty hard i like to try to maximize the use of both my skill trees..The melee dmg tests were performed against my seeker friend who has 12kpdef unbuffed g16 and a 60def lvl with omalley......i completey ignored tweakz post in part because most of his posts are flame bait digital diarrhea, he left out the fact that my dmg gets a major boost from my attack lvls when making the negligible magic attack comparison, and he is too one dimensional and pretentious to understand other uses for alternative venomancer skills/builds

Desdi - Sanctuary · July 2013

mistressmuerta wrote: »

things

Heh, I was a little too lazy to tweak your own calculator but I'm glad you did it.
Though for the weapon, considering that not all Venomancers get the same stats, I added more physical defence because an AA Venomancer would weight that add more whilst if I were HA I'd focus more on the channeling and magic etc.

Question for the OP though; what's your budget? Here we're sitting talking about endgame gear but the coin available you have for your Venomancer might play factor in your final decision on what build to follow.

Talking strictly for PvP now, if budget is low you'd probably want a Vit build if you choose AA or go for HA for better HP from refines etc.

mistressmuerta · July 2013

i laughed so hard at the quote...that was good....um as far as the budget goes most things u can farm the thing that will take a while that you will be forced to farm is tokens for the recast rings..i purchased my r9 during sales so it was half the price total i problaby only dropped about 2k and that was for refines after +7 using your method..which i also purchased and combined orbs during sales...id have to actually go back and look at charge history for how much i actually spent, but im a nurse irl so money isnt really an issue i have plenty of disposable income every month..i also didn't achieve all this instantly over night it was a work in progress over several months....not saying its not possible to farm it all but a majority of people charge for thier rank gear otherwise pwi wouldn't keep having all these sales on it..

tweakz · July 2013

SanChan - Heavens Tear wrote: »

tweakz u realy dont like other builds except for AA dont you ?

Personal attack to lead a weak argument?

As for Veno i still think they where entendet as a Light armor class but then changed to AA.

All rank equips are AA making it no guess.

But whatever Veno is the only class where all 3 Armor types work realy great.

I addressed this in the previous post pointing out that at least HA doesn't appear to be so great.

As for the skillset the cast spells are more effected by the weapon then the Magic atk itself no Veno skill is like Deals 200% magic attk they are all like magic atk + % weapon dmg + skill dmg

For R8+10 to have more matk than R9s3 +12 is a huge tell on difference.

Btw. Pet dmg is based on weapon and rings.

"with pet evolution"?

As pointed out many times in the past: the only logical reason to use another armor type/build is to swap equips with another toon. Another play style is valid, but not practical for progress in game.

Pelli - Dreamweaver · July 2013

I'm an LA veno and first of all, let me tell you that LA venos mostly get the worst of both ends having less magical defense than AA and less physical defense than HA

However, despite this, I am more than able to survive some things a lot of AA with the g16 AA with the same refines and shards I have. I could say that all I need to do to kill some people is to stand still and let them kill themselves but that's not so fun, even if it is funny to see archers do it.

My build goes like this: http://pwcalc.com/1aa24b5569cdb4f3 and I'll be honest, there are some players that fear me, and others that simply KOS me just because they recognize me in NW or TW. Of course, LA venos are a dying breed on Dreamweaver and I'm one of the last standing LA venos of the server, those well-known on the server anyway, along with Draal, Locwoko, Cass_Kitty and a few others.

My goal is to get my gear to +10 or +12 and obtain my Warsoul weapon (because I resent veno r9 weapon. I just hate on patakas because of the lack of consistent damage output) and +10 it by then.

LA venos on Dreamweaver are rare to come by, and I've honestly been mistaken as a HA veno by some because of how hard I am to kill (that is, if you don't oneshot me anyway :P).

In all honestly, I love my build. I wouldn't give it up for anything and I facepalm at anyone telling me to go r9 instead of my LA build.

The highest I've hit someone was a BM in TW with 24k crit with my O'Malley on and the highest I've hit in PvE was over 300k in Trials with pretty much every debuff in the game and a crit.

And that ends my small speech about LA venos and my own build. b:cute

Draal - Dreamweaver · July 2013

Well, I'll second Pelli, LA venos have to sacrifice damage for survaviblity. While we lack this damage for 1vs1, when it comes to TW or NW, the higher survavibility comes handy.

I regret going r9r3 for weapon because its purify almost never proc for me, and its attack speed sucks, but the ring is definitely worth it. (If you go LA veno, don't go for r9r3 belt, take a pdef one).
I'm still one-shot to some seekers, but that's only because I have low def levels b:surrender

Anyway, regardless of your build, everyone hates venos (or hates me) on DW

Desdi - Sanctuary · July 2013

Seeing as AA classes can now reach 800 magic for the damage multiplier and archers having magic attacks too, isn't it better to have a magic belt/neck on LA though? or both I guess.

Pelli - Dreamweaver · July 2013

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

Seeing as AA classes can now reach 800 magic for the damage multiplier and archers having magic attacks too, isn't it better to have a magic belt/neck on LA though? or both I guess.

It would. However, the way I plan my build is to obtain 2 Cloud Stirs to make up for the lack of magical resistance while having physical defense ornaments for my neck and belt.

Desdi - Sanctuary · July 2013

Pelli - Dreamweaver wrote: »

It would. However, the way I plan my build is to obtain 2 Cloud Stirs to make up for the lack of magical resistance while having physical defense ornaments for my neck and belt.

I was mostly refering to Draal suggesting getting a physical defence belt. My bad for not quoting b:chuckle
It's just something my game husband suggested once as he has an assassin (obviously LA) so I don't have personal experience. However, I can say that endgame AA classes can be pretty scary b:shocked

Draal - Dreamweaver · July 2013

My suggestion was more to get all the mag defense from rings, and extra pdef from belt/necklace, although there are a couple of LA venos having one pdef neck and one mdef belt, or the opposite.

tweakz · July 2013

This I see all the time: someone does unconventional build; then uses compensators.

Older threads show that vit build (another mistake but a good example) gives more survivability and dmg than LA. LA claim to upgrade weapon to compensate for low matk. AA shard gear and refine for survival. Both work toward survival and dmg. In the end; AA is cheaper, and more efficient, unless you're goal is pure phys dd. Also; didn't I read somewhere that they are modifying fox form skills to base dmg off of our matk or magic dmg?

HexiKiss - Harshlands · July 2013

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

Heh, I was a little too lazy to tweak your own calculator but I'm glad you did it.
Though for the weapon, considering that not all Venomancers get the same stats, I added more physical defence because an AA Venomancer would weight that add more whilst if I were HA I'd focus more on the channeling and magic etc.

Question for the OP though; what's your budget? Here we're sitting talking about endgame gear but the coin available you have for your Venomancer might play factor in your final decision on what build to follow.

Talking strictly for PvP now, if budget is low you'd probably want a Vit build if you choose AA or go for HA for better HP from refines etc.

Well that's the thing I don't really have a budget o-o..sounds stupid I know but honestly I haven't decided how I wanted to approach making my veno..I just know what I want to do with her. Chances are however if I decide to go HA or LA I'll be shooting g16 vana gear. On the other hand if I happen to go AA I'd try to shoot for r9, starting out with r8. It's still mostly up in the air but either way it falls g16 is more likely as it stands with only being able to farm NW.

Eoria - Harshlands · July 2013

Don't bother with HA/LA unless you can invest heavily in it to make it good or it's stashed gear from a HA/LA class.

If you're on a limited budget, do a vit AA build.

If not on such a limited budget, you can do pure mag.

//this is if you're planning on doing pvp. pve, your build doesn't matter, but then I'll wonder why the hell you're on a pvp server with a veno if all you want to do is pve.

Walpurga - Dreamweaver · July 2013

Pelli - Dreamweaver wrote: »

and others that simply KOS me

Maybe it's because you're a veno. As they say on our server, KOSvenos b:laugh

On topic: LA inevitably falls into the archers' and sins' dilemma of having bad def on both ends. Because you get a slight m.def boost from statting magic and because your rings are refinable, though, and because you intend to use your veno as a caster (I think?), you get the option of getting mdef from decent rings, which will cost an arm and a leg.

Example LA build: http://pwcalc.com/a67210a1e94f692f Putting on lowest requirement items with additional wielding-stats (dex and str) help you minimize the amount of points taken out of magic. Level 3 fox form because I was not sure about culti

Here's what I can tell you for each path (assuming 90 atk levels with jones):

AA: max. magic damage, min. pdef, max. m.def

LA: med. m.def, med. p.def, total loss of magic damage from pure AA is a loss of (104-54)+(104-5) = 199 magic, which, with G16 + 10 and an incomparable sapphire shard (easily farmed in weekly sot/abba) you lose 2170.1 base magic attack, roughly 4123.2 on a 0-def level (pve) target

HA: min. m.def, max p. def, total loss of magic damage from pure AA is a loss of (252-54)+(54-5)=247 magic, equal to (same weapon as above) 2693.5 base m.atk, 5117.7 after atk levels

All calculated values are based on an average damage value for G16 + 10 sword with G10 sapphire shard.

Attack level considerations are approximate

tweakz · July 2013

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

Don't bother with HA/LA unless you can invest heavily in it to make it good or it's stashed gear from a HA/LA class.

If you're on a limited budget, do a vit AA build.

If not on such a limited budget, you can do pure mag.

//this is if you're planning on doing pvp. pve, your build doesn't matter, but then I'll wonder why the hell you're on a pvp server with a veno if all you want to do is pve.

Made wave 3 squad today. Had a decent Psy, a failish barb, decent cleric, a typical ~6k hp assassin, and another veno who was R8. The cleric mentioned something about "no aoe?" I had to struggle to get that squad to the end, and can't help but think how much more useful that veno would have been if they hadn't put points in vit. I was expecting the run to be easy but it wasn't. Barb was partly to blame since it was dying, and my Giant was assuming aggro which killed my own ability to dd. Cleric did warn me that the Barb was very weak. I should have evaluated the squad better and pruned.

Eoria - Harshlands · July 2013

...I don't take venos as AOE DDs in GV? Also, sounds more like the barb failing than anything else.

Pelli - Dreamweaver · July 2013

Tweakz, let me ask you something: Does it really matter in the end? Your opinion is yours alone and everyone else had their own opinions on stuff. I gave my fair share of objective details about the LA venos. Also, why say compensators? Am I not right to say that casters compensate for their low p.def stat by investing into p.def neck/belt ornaments.

Of course, venos were originally intended as casters but to me, having a caster and giving that caster class a MELEE mastery with little to no use of that mastery seems like a waste to me. And after all, venos are the most versatile class of the game so even if it is an uncommon build, it does not invalidate its use simply by being unconventional.

Of course, as Draal pointed out, LA venos sacrifice damage for survivability on the p.def side because they have Fox Form to tap into for the extra p.def but they make up for their lack of damage compared to the AA venos by having a higher critical hit rate to deal additional damage that some AA venos cannot tap into.

Say what you will but the way people play and the builds they use vary according to the player and their play style.

HexiKiss - Harshlands · July 2013

SanChan - Heavens Tear wrote: »

tweakz u realy dont like other builds except for AA dont you ? As for Veno i still think they where entendet as a Light armor class but then changed to AA. When you look at the skill set and the way the 6 original classes were that would be logical. Human 1 HA 1 AA Winged Elf 1 LA 1 AA and Untamed 1 HA and 1 LA would be alltogether 2.AA 2.HA and 2.LA.
But whatever Veno is the only class where all 3 Armor types work realy great.
As for the skillset the cast spells are more effected by the weapon then the Magic atk itself no Veno skill is like Deals 200% magic attk they are all like magic atk + % weapon dmg + skill dmg

Btw. Pet dmg is based on weapon and rings.

This has always interested me. If venos were a pure AA class we wouldn't need Merle mastery or Malefic Crush, it would have been a straight up management drain maybe withheld some magic damage attached. I think the creators didn't have a clue on how a veno should be made. It's like they created a dex class who uses magic weapons. I aways thought it'd be funny if AA venos were the ones gimping themselves xD but I highly doubt that'd be the case. Anyhow it is really interesting because also if we were a pure AA class our debuffs like bewitched would have range and if we weren't meant to.stay in fox form.we wouldn't need a spell like leech or that one that restores mana. Of course I'm most likely wrong but think about it we're the only class(besides seekers) who can do both magic and meele damage excluding the pet, factor in the pet and one could say we're a bit broken or at least would be if our damage was on par with a cleric or pay. As that's not the case since I assume our damage is split between us and our pet.
I'm just rambling really but as it stands I'm leaning towards LA it's resonating with what I want to do.

Desdi - Sanctuary · July 2013

An endgame AA Venomancer can achieve a 17% crit rate or more (also depending Sage vs. Demon masteries) depends on the equipment they have and it should be able to go up to ~21% buffed (again depending on gear/masteries).

A LA can probably achieve more but don't underestimate the crit rate of an AA either

I'm sorry if I sound like I'm trying to force my opinions by bringing up AA so much, I'm really not trying to, just throwing some facts here. I've tried both LA and HA in the past to see how they are.

@ HexiKiss - Bewitch has a 27 meter range, one more reason for us to be hated in PvP, so that example is not good, what you meant is probably things like Purge and Amplify Damage.

On another note, the original PW game was never truely completed by the original development team so we will never know what they really had planned for this class.

HexiKiss - Harshlands · July 2013

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

An endgame AA Venomancer can achieve a 17% crit rate or more (also depending Sage vs. Demon masteries) depends on the equipment they have and it should be able to go up to ~21% buffed (again depending on gear/masteries).

A LA can probably achieve more but don't underestimate the crit rate of an AA either
I'm sorry if I sound like I'm trying to force my opinions by bringing up AA so much, I'm really not trying to, just throwing some facts here. I've tried both LA and HA in the past to see how they are.

@ HexiKiss - Bewitch has a 27 meter range, one more reason for us to be hated in PvP, so that example is not good, what you meant is probably things like Purge and Amplify Damage.

On another note, the original PW game was never truely completed by the original development team so we will never know what they really had planned for this class.

Woops that was so mybad xD was typing way too fast. Yeah I mean like amp and purge our.two.most valued skills. If we were pure AA based they'd have a decent range not exactly 27m like bewitched but enough so that we wouldn't need to be within Merle range.

Draal - Dreamweaver · July 2013

What people tend to forget, is that there was a time before R9, were hybrid builds were significantly more present. TT99 was endgame gear, and nix was still scaring the hell outa arcane classes.
Who remember all those LA/HA BM builds for aps? People never complained about those, if they knew how to play their classes not to be 1-shot.

tweakz · July 2013

Pelli - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Tweakz, let me ask you something: Does it really matter in the end? Your opinion is yours alone and everyone else had their own opinions on stuff.

I'm not interested in opinion.

I gave my fair share of objective details about the LA venos. Also, why say compensators? Am I not right to say that casters compensate for their low p.def stat by investing into p.def neck/belt ornaments.

Am I not right in stating that AA is the most efficient, and cost effective?

Of course, venos were originally intended as casters but to me, having a caster and giving that caster class a MELEE mastery with little to no use of that mastery seems like a waste to me.

Sounds like prioritizing -channeling on a Mystic just for Absorb Soul. I'm pure mage and still use the melee mastery -ty. -Just like I still use Absorb Soul.

And after all, venos are the most versatile class of the game so even if it is an uncommon build, it does not invalidate its use simply by being unconventional.

Do you read what I write, or just get huffy puffy?

Of course, as Draal pointed out, LA venos sacrifice damage for survivability on the p.def side because they have Fox Form to tap into for the extra p.def but they make up for their lack of damage compared to the AA venos by having a higher critical hit rate to deal additional damage that some AA venos cannot tap into.

They don't make it up on crit rate. They further fail at pet healing. -Stop this mindless rant will ya?

Pelli - Dreamweaver · July 2013

The only thing you do is act like a pure mag purist and anything that's not pure mag AA as a veno is doomed to fail.

However, depending on what build you take and make, and if we take away the cost it requires, the various builds structured around the venomancer class all have different mechanics based on the original class mechanics.

While the pure mag AA build is the most effective for pet healing and dealing high damage, you need to invest refines and p.def orns in order to toughen up your survivability in case you're stuck in a situation where you need to tank or take damage from a melee mob.

Of course, the pure mag AA veno is more aimed as a supporting class because while you do have a good damage with your stand-up skills, the venomancer class is still a suppor class rather than a DD class albeit venos make for great DDs once you know how to utilize your skills to your own adavantage.

But... that doesn't make the build almighty. Like I pointed out, the pure mag AA build for venos has it's fair share of flaws such as the low hp and p.def. Without those two, a pure mag is going to be squishy and easily killed by anything that uses physical damage. Some may say that bramble can save them but if you lack the hp and the p.def, the damage you take will be superior to what bramble reflects on the enemy target, especially the damage from an aps build like sins and bms.

Pure magic AA venos may be the prominent build because it's cost effective but that doesn't mean that everyone should just do it because people tell them to. It's a very good and valid build but it's just that. It's only one build amongst other builds that the veno can tap into (maybe I should do a bowmancer someday just to be hipster o.o).

Curious About Damage :0

Comments

Categories