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  • Elenacostel - Heavens TearElenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Me neither... I thought that was only the case with the Morai Armor pieces... Not the Weapon... I never noticed any changes like that using the free Morai magic Sword... f:confused

    I have not heard of this for either weapon or armor.

    I tested my friend's Nirvana S3 armor and my morai armor against the physical low level spider/scorpion mobs outside of South Archosaur. My Morai armor reduced more damage than the S3 armor, leading me to believe that Warding levels works outside of the 5 level range as indicated by the other poster.
  • Eoria - HarshlandsEoria - Harshlands Posts: 6,118 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    The real reason why you wouldn't get Morai gear is that it can't be account stashed to other alts on your account. And well...Morai gear doesn't really help you in pvp at all either.
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  • Quilue - SanctuaryQuilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I distinctly remember my cleric's +4 Morai sword (the lv 95 one) dealing about as much damage on Cube Dog as her +7 TT90 glaive despite the weapon damage difference. It would seem to me that Slaying level works. I'll have to try that again later.

    edit:

    Just got out of Cube.

    TT90 +7:
    8964-11126 base mattack

    Empyrean Edge +4:
    6657-8007 base mattack, 45 slaying lv

    Definitely hits about the same on ? level cube mobs...which makes sense if you just take the base damage with Morai wep times 1.45 as a rough estimate.
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  • Mosz - Heavens TearMosz - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,181 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    tweakz wrote: »
    Everything point you made is countered by +60 slaying levels.

    im sorry i didnt name the blatantly obvious 40 attack levels less part, didnt think anyone would pretend the s3 doesnt have +40 attack levels if i dont mention it, but of course there has to be someone right....

    s3 nirvy vs morai orange:
    ☆☆Enchanted Edge: Sky Magical attack 831-1016 10 refine yeilds: +579 ; +60 slay
    ☆Sandy World Magical attack 1316-1608 10 refine yeilds: +669 ; +40 attack

    youre generally looking at a ~30% difference in magic attack (your heals gonna suck)
    overall effective damage to mobs at best (good shards, jolly jones) would still be ~10% less with the morai, and arent they non stashable on top of non tradeable? also plenty of magic attacks are based off of weapon attack as a multiplier hence they will be much much less effective with the morai one, your sparked damage will be horrible with morai, and of course if you want to do cube, or nation wars, or tw or something well..lol
  • Annalyse - Heavens TearAnnalyse - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,618 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    im sorry i didnt name the blatantly obvious 40 attack levels less part, didnt think anyone would pretend the s3 doesnt have +40 attack levels if i dont mention it, but of course there has to be someone right....

    s3 nirvy vs morai orange:
    ☆☆Enchanted Edge: Sky Magical attack 831-1016 10 refine yeilds: +579 ; +60 slay
    ☆Sandy World Magical attack 1316-1608 10 refine yeilds: +669 ; +40 attack

    youre generally looking at a ~30% difference in magic attack (your heals gonna suck)
    overall effective damage to mobs at best (good shards, jolly jones) would still be ~10% less with the morai, and arent they non stashable on top of non tradeable? also plenty of magic attacks are based off of weapon attack as a multiplier hence they will be much much less effective with the morai one, your sparked damage will be horrible with morai, and of course if you want to do cube, or nation wars, or tw or something well..lol

    Well, people had not been comparing Morai weaps to S3. I believe the initial discussion was comparing to S1/2. And my Morai bow did outdamage my S2 bow.

    Not only that, nobody is saying that Morai is better, only that it is a perfectly good choice. Less so for clerics, but the G15 Morai still does have the same heal power as the TT99 glaive; more so if you roll good mag or mag attack stats on it and it also does refine better. So you can't call it a bad weapon even for them.

    For people talking about how you can't stash it or PvP with it, just remember not everyone plays a pile of alts and why on earth would anyone who wanted to PvP be talking about getting it anyway? Not all of us are interested in PvP.

    That said, I do agree with the people that point out how cheap it has gotten to get Nirvana weapons now which does make them a better alternative. Since you can make a pretty cheap TT99 gold in any weapon type, and raps are dropping more every week, in the end it will not cost a whole lot more than Morai (which I paid 17 mil for but now I don't use any of them anymore). If you do run NW then it can also partly be farmable. And you the have the opportunity to upgrade to G16; even if you don't run full warsong people often sell the molds really cheap if you are prepared to run in quick.

    Morai armor I still think is a decent alternative though. One of my two clerics uses it and it is great, and reasonably cheap... and you can also roll for four sockets with minimal cost.
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  • Yuna_Sama - Heavens TearYuna_Sama - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,541 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Well, people had not been comparing Morai weaps to S3. I believe the initial discussion was comparing to S1/2. And my Morai bow did outdamage my S2 bow.

    Not only that, nobody is saying that Morai is better, only that it is a perfectly good choice. Less so for clerics, but the G15 Morai still does have the same heal power as the TT99 glaive; more so if you roll good mag or mag attack stats on it and it also does refine better. So you can't call it a bad weapon even for them.

    For people talking about how you can't stash it or PvP with it, just remember not everyone plays a pile of alts and why on earth would anyone who wanted to PvP be talking about getting it anyway? Not all of us are interested in PvP.

    That said, I do agree with the people that point out how cheap it has gotten to get Nirvana weapons now which does make them a better alternative. Since you can make a pretty cheap TT99 gold in any weapon type, and raps are dropping more every week, in the end it will not cost a whole lot more than Morai (which I paid 17 mil for but now I don't use any of them anymore). If you do run NW then it can also partly be farmable. And you the have the opportunity to upgrade to G16; even if you don't run full warsong people often sell the molds really cheap if you are prepared to run in quick.

    Morai armor I still think is a decent alternative though. One of my two clerics uses it and it is great, and reasonably cheap... and you can also roll for four sockets with minimal cost.

    Cool... Thanks for the info... Was getting kinda confused with all the different statements here... Seems like the buyable Morai stuff will be pretty good for a casual PvEer after all... b:thanks
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • CapnK - SanctuaryCapnK - Sanctuary Posts: 1,166 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I bought a TT99 gold Pataka for 1.5m on my server and turned it into t2 Nirv with NW Raptures, it's reasonably cheap, so I'd say no to the morai weapon. Especially since slaying levels only work in a level range of +5 or -5 of your level, which means [?] bosses it has no effect on.

    This is completely false. Slaying levels are not affected by mob level at all.
  • WaterVixen - HarshlandsWaterVixen - Harshlands Posts: 178 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I personally do NOT like the new changes to Abba and SoT at all, and I have a 103 psy, 102 cleric and 102 seeker....and a 97 wiz that i don't even want to do her culti for FB99. I saw a squad of half 105 r9/r9rr die 6 times to hellfire and eventually gave up and that's part of culti b:beatenup The new changes are absolutely ridiculous and should come with a damn How-To manual now b:angry Also, I am one of the few on HL server who LOVES to do culti, my wiz finished her OHT culti at 93! and now I'm flippin glad I did, you almost NEED to be charmed to even survive these caves now and I am not the only one who thinks so on harshlands either.....most of us absolutely detest these caves now. Ya'll should've revamped nirvana instead of adding this ****, ijs >.< WTB caster back!!!!!!!!!! b:cry
  • Mosz - Heavens TearMosz - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,181 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I saw a squad of half 105 r9/r9rr die 6 times to hellfire and eventually gave up and that's part of culti b:beatenup

    did they forget to equip their gear? half a squad of r9/r9s3 can kill him in one spark-max 2
  • Untamed_pain - ArchosaurUntamed_pain - Archosaur Posts: 533 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Abba and SOT is not that hard if you know what you doing. And where the rrr9 plvl and don't know how to play their class or something b:chuckle

    Come to Arch server we show you how it's done b:victory
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  • HideYoHubby - ArchosaurHideYoHubby - Archosaur Posts: 995 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Abba aint hard, its SoT weekly that is just ****. We did it last night, we tried doing hellfire with puzzle approach and kept failing cause the AoE is just absurd outside of BB. Then we just went for spark + HF --> Boss dead in 10s. And before you complain bout gear, the squad was on average rrr9 with few undergeared players & my sin that is aps set, full +10 though. I can accept I get hit hard by magic attacks but isnt 16k from AoE a bit of an overkill?

    Your average squads have no chance whatsoever to pass SoT weekly, its absurd, hellfire is just something stupid. And thats not even the most **** thing in it, itse the damn fact that its 10x easier just having high tier squad with OP sin or two and demon HF and killing the boss in 1 spark, instead of trying to pass the absurd puzzle on the boss. It also glitched on us, circle disappeared but mob was still alive, making it fair bit harder to handle. As Hellfire was first boss we really did after BH one, we ended up taking spark + HF approach on whole instance and it went fairly smooth.

    There is lot of cool things in the instance, I love Boozy instructors shouts and some of the instance actually requires being awake, which is good. But it has potential to so much more, which is why I am so annoyed you really need either ridiculously geared squad or you have to kill hellfire in 1 spark to live. Might be the same thing with some other bosses, queen doesnt really die in 1 spark and that puzzle was pretty nice imo.
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  • Jaabg - SanctuaryJaabg - Sanctuary Posts: 2,256 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    solution

    Isn't that always the case with pwi? Pile on the aps?

    The previous seat boss (haven't done bh recently after update) that had reduce melee buff on, we apsed it to death in two spark cycles usually. Sure other bosses would go faster, but a boss that people didn't use aps on can still be apsed, until they put on bramble. At that point you just need high hp, and bramble is annoying charm tick at max.
  • Eoria - HarshlandsEoria - Harshlands Posts: 6,118 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    So how exactly does the puzzle thing work on Hellfire?
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  • Liveena - Heavens TearLiveena - Heavens Tear Posts: 422 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Each time the boss will spawn a minotaur add and a green spark, you have to kill the green spark to spawn a trap, then lure the add into it.

    Its very annoying, most squad just tend let a barb tanked the adds while the rest ganked the boss.
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  • WaterVixen - HarshlandsWaterVixen - Harshlands Posts: 178 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Abba and SOT is not that hard if you know what you doing. And where the rrr9 plvl and don't know how to play their class or something b:chuckle

    Come to Arch server we show you how it's done b:victory

    well tankinator was the main one to survive but even he dropped and i'm pretty damn sure he knows how to play his wiz
  • _dblazen_ - Dreamweaver_dblazen_ - Dreamweaver Posts: 566 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    well tankinator was the main one to survive but even he dropped and i'm pretty damn sure he knows how to play his wiz

    It's not just about knowing how to play your class, it's about using your enviroment and what is given to you.

    Namely in SoT... there are those crystals for second boss (or well it's the boss I always do second, it's the queen one with her dogs)... they are not limited to that place and can be spammed pretty nicely.

    b:bye not so hard now to survive hellfire and the add it spawns, is it?

    tl;dr for the lazy people:
    Dig crystals in SoT and use them. Makes it a lot easier.
  • WaterVixen - HarshlandsWaterVixen - Harshlands Posts: 178 Arc User
    edited June 2013

    b:bye not so hard now to survive hellfire and the add it spawns, is it?

    that boss ticked my cleric's charm with every single aoe, those unclarmed = dead meat so ya it's a bytch and i hate it >.<
  • HideYoHubby - ArchosaurHideYoHubby - Archosaur Posts: 995 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    It's not just about knowing how to play your class, it's about using your enviroment and what is given to you.

    Namely in SoT... there are those crystals for second boss (or well it's the boss I always do second, it's the queen one with her dogs)... they are not limited to that place and can be spammed pretty nicely.

    b:bye not so hard now to survive hellfire and the add it spawns, is it?

    tl;dr for the lazy people:
    Dig crystals in SoT and use them. Makes it a lot easier.

    Take to completely different part of the instance, dig crystals, get to hellfire, distribute crystals, make sure whenever anybody out of BB there is constant immunity, do boss the hard way. If you are outside of AoE, make sure you are beefy as my full +10 armors sin got 1shot by that AoE outside of BB.

    VS

    Grab 1-3 OP sins depending on rest of the squad, find demon HF, spark + HF + aps = Boss dead in 10s.

    My whole point is its **** how difficult its to do the puzzle compared to just completely overpowering it. It really should be the other way around. And w/o crystals it was **** fairly OP squad, any of your average N3 squad have pretty much no chance of surviving the AoE + adds, `cept doing it the spark + debuff + aps way.
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  • _dblazen_ - Dreamweaver_dblazen_ - Dreamweaver Posts: 566 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Take to completely different part of the instance, dig crystals, get to hellfire, distribute crystals, make sure whenever anybody out of BB there is constant immunity, do boss the hard way. If you are outside of AoE, make sure you are beefy as my full +10 armors sin got 1shot by that AoE outside of BB.

    VS

    Grab 1-3 OP sins depending on rest of the squad, find demon HF, spark + HF + aps = Boss dead in 10s.

    My whole point is its **** how difficult its to do the puzzle compared to just completely overpowering it. It really should be the other way around. And w/o crystals it was **** fairly OP squad, any of your average N3 squad have pretty much no chance of surviving the AoE + adds, `cept doing it the spark + debuff + aps way.

    You have no idea how to use the crystals then, you can just keep using them, the cooldown isn't that long.

    The puzzle is not needed (it isn't even a puzzle?), the crystals are just pure for protection while doing the same as your spark debuff aps away, but then for your so called "average N3" squad.
    Besides that, if you do the Weekly SoT you have to go through the part where you dig crystals, no one is telling someone else to go kill the boss before the digs to get to hellfire, it's just a method to ensure some more protection.

    Point of it is, when using the crystals you can also ignore the taurox that spawns, even if your squad doesnt consist of completely OP people b:bye

    So what is the so called hard way? Digging a few crystals takes 2 minutes too long to ensure your squad won't wipe?
  • PotatoHeadQR - DreamweaverPotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,507 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    My whole point is its **** how difficult its to do the puzzle compared to just completely overpowering it.

    :S :S :S
    the very definition of overpowering something is being able to just force your victory without tactics.

    don't see what the problem is.
    not OP squad? dig crystals, "solve puzzle" (lol at this being called a puzzle), stategize a bit (metal def apo, charms, mdef charms, metal immune genie skills)
    OP squad? destroy hellfire. it's only natural to have an advantage when you gear up...
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  • HideYoHubby - ArchosaurHideYoHubby - Archosaur Posts: 995 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    You have no idea how to use the crystals then, you can just keep using them, the cooldown isn't that long.

    The puzzle is not needed (it isn't even a puzzle?), the crystals are just pure for protection while doing the same as your spark debuff aps away, but then for your so called "average N3" squad.
    Besides that, if you do the Weekly SoT you have to go through the part where you dig crystals, no one is telling someone else to go kill the boss before the digs to get to hellfire, it's just a method to ensure some more protection.

    Point of it is, when using the crystals you can also ignore the taurox that spawns, even if your squad doesnt consist of completely OP people b:bye

    So what is the so called hard way? Digging a few crystals takes 2 minutes too long to ensure your squad won't wipe?

    I guess I just imagined the puzzle should be reasonably easy to done. And like you said, you could just ignore the spawns with crystals and it would be basically the same thing as instagimping it. The hard way is the one doing it the way it was clearly intended to be killed. The whole spawns, dragging em, etc. Seemed like a great way to make instance more "skill based", while dragging and freezing mobs really isnt that hard.

    As for my overpowering comment? You need better gear to do it the puzzle way than overpowering it, which I find absurd. Yes, it could be done w/o crystals/simple Spark + HF but with people suggesting apos, defense charms, etc. for it? Nobody is going to, its like paying 30$ for bag of chips when there is some for 3$ right next to it. Some will do it with only purpose of showing off, no one else will.

    I cant understand what is the point of a puzzle in such scenario, for all that matters they could of just added npc who spawns the boss when you got BM + X amount of sins and yells "SPAAARK!!! HF!!!! GOGOGOGO!!!" when boss gets spawned.

    Ps. And the same time ppl QQ how sins are noobs cause can only spark and auto-attack...
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  • GlenRoss - ArchosaurGlenRoss - Archosaur Posts: 430 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I guess I just imagined the puzzle should be reasonably easy to done.

    I believe getting rid of "reasonably easy" was the point of the change. There needs to be things which challenge the high-end players and force team play.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Annalyse - Heavens TearAnnalyse - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,618 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I believe getting rid of "reasonably easy" was the point of the change. There needs to be things which challenge the high-end players and force team play.

    Meh, I understand making the weekly quest less than reasonably easy as it is new content for higher levels, but I still think they shouldn't make it so hard for the 99 culti. They should have just made it so that if you tab at the entrance or something, you get access to the old bosses.
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  • Kiyoshi - Heavens TearKiyoshi - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,385 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I saw a squad of half 105 r9/r9rr die 6 times to hellfire

    With bb... its impossible for a refined r9 to die. Please don't group together those weapon only or +2 3rd cast r9s with those of us who can auto attack/tank/grab a drink and come back to a dead boss.
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  • HideYoHubby - ArchosaurHideYoHubby - Archosaur Posts: 995 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I believe getting rid of "reasonably easy" was the point of the change. There needs to be things which challenge the high-end players and force team play.

    I guess I am alone in wanting there to be a point for the puzzle. Right now its so much easier to instagib the boss, which requires few OP geared toons and good debuffs. I dont actually even tick tanking the boss if we instagib it, I got 1shot out of BB though as I was trying to be the one doing the puzzle. It really wouldnt be that hard if the AoE wasnt that absurd. Yes, my sin uses the crappy defenses of aps set but its all +10, mostly endgame sharded and it really should imo count for something Im at 14,7k hp barb buffed.

    I will get my SoT weekly done easy enough as I can always do the spark + HF trick, thats not the point. Thats freaking easy to endgame geared players and challenge really isnt argument for this puzzle. Is it just me who sees how nobody will ever utilize the puzzle option, making it completely useless content?

    Ps. Discounting hellfire, SoT really isnt that hard and hellfire is a joke with spark + HF to any high tier squad.
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  • Kinjeto - Raging TideKinjeto - Raging Tide Posts: 564 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    #DealWithIt

    b:laugh
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  • Walpurga - DreamweaverWalpurga - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,028 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Ran abba weekly with mix R9s, a +10 G16 BM and mix of everything ranging from mold gears and tt90 to mix G15. Was not that bad, though it took a while to do. Bosses like mask you need G16 tier dps to kill without being a major pain in the ***
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  • soleidasoleida Posts: 113 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Done Abba on my veno (S2 gear no hp or +). First the squad rush off incl the cleric. Dont have holy path for a started. What the heck I died the first time on the Fireballs in the beginning. Got lucky to have cleric stand save so she could ress. After that I died again.........but the cleric had been rushing off to the another side ........so back in again. And guess what there I was all alone and need to try to get pass these fireballs again and my great team rush to the boss leave all mobs alive.........how many change you have to make it to that boss alive? OMG PWI first its major sucks you have to rush pass these fireballs. Sec Squad maybe a bit off teamwork would have been nice and instead off rushing off a bit off info would had help after all I didn't told it was my first time in the new instance.

    And yes it might not be hard for who has tons of hp and great gear but for a TT squad its hell to get you bh done.
  • Quilue - SanctuaryQuilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    If you really can't get past the falling rocks just wait at the beginning for teleporter after the rest of the team do the work. You can have people's afk alts keep you company while you wait.
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  • LoneVixen - HarshlandsLoneVixen - Harshlands Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Meh, I understand making the weekly quest less than reasonably easy as it is new content for higher levels, but I still think they shouldn't make it so hard for the 99 culti. They should have just made it so that if you tab at the entrance or something, you get access to the old bosses.

    See, I totally agree with this. Ya, the one for abba is fairly easy....port, pew pew and done......but for SoT, it's absolutely ridiculous. The fact that one almost NEEDS to be charmed to even survive these instances is absurd. But the fact that sins can't stealth through everything and solo it does kinda make me laugh b:chuckle Sure, give the R9's a challenge....but not at the expense of totally **** up an FB cave b:surrender
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