Problems with Nation war in a nutshell

Longknife - Harshlands
Longknife - Harshlands Posts: 4,843 Arc User
edited June 2013 in Nation Wars
1) Waaaaay too many lands.

The most active war my squad encountered was a 13v24. The moment it ended, we never saw those guys again. It's downright difficult to find a good war with good opponents, and the style of the Nation war actually encourages squads to split up. Some may argue this offers more balance (more on that later), but I had some team fights and some 1v1 wars. Know what's more fun? The team wars. I like playing this game with friends and I like the challenge of coordinating with them against other teams. 1v1 can only be done so many times before it becomes predictable and loses it's shine.

But in order to win with our nation, sure enough we were encouraged to split up. Because 10 people in one war was only neccesary ONCE the entire two hours, and over half of the NW I spent with only two squadmates.


2) That stupid ****ing bridge battle.



Ok. So this thing takes forever, has annoying towers that take forever to kill, and offers the lowest profit score for your nation.

Wat


Everyone I know avoided these wars like the plague, and for good reason.
Wanna fix it? Make the towers have less HP, make these wars the MOST valuable, not the least. That way you'd encourage OP squads to enter them and duke it out, thus teamplay would happen here continuously.


3) Nothing you do matters and everyone's a winner, and everyone has similar scores.


Everything that used to matter has been diluted.

I used to coordinate with other squads in nation chat. Do I do that now? No need because wtf there's 959283579823475689 lands and if an OP squad is coming we can just go around them and pick up the lands the took as they move on.

I used to want to do good in Nation War because performing well and performing poorly could be the difference between 250 tokens and 160. Today I had the misfortune of ending up in a Bridge Battle (with two squadmates) for 20 minutes vs. a group of derps who couldn't quite figure out that if they don't let us kill their towers before the Nation War ends, no one gets points. It didn't end in time. A squadmate of mine spent that time picking up Crystal wars solo and got 4k more personal contri than me. His token score compared to mine? 114 and I got 108. Another that got 5k more somehow got 135. Decent, but nothing amazing.


I used to want my nation to do well because if it didn't, my score would hurt. Now? Now I don't even know where to BEGIN helping my nation because there's 189578298572 damned lands out there. Also, it used to be that if my nation got fourth, even IF I did amazing, I would only be able to get ~100 tokens. Now? A squadmate with 21k personal got 135 tokens in the third place nation, another guy in the first place nation with the same score got 160. That's pathetic.



I think I know why it was done this way.
I'm sure there were plenty of complaints about well geared squads making more coin simply because they're already geared. This is a valid point, but unfortunately there's also others who simply made more coin because they were simply better. In that sense, it kinda encourages people to just not give a damn and stop trying, thus it kinda ruins the competition of the NW. My squad for example had two options tonight: stay together and be bored cause there's no way in hell we'd be lucky enough to run across a squad that can oppose us, or split up until we're all flying solo and just land grabbing, with winning or losing not REALLY mattering because there's dozens of other lands to choose from. FFS, two of my squadmates specifically sought crystal battles, got all 5, then ditched out to enter other wars. They did this flawlessly without opposition.

But listen, I think most of us would be willing to accept the token scores being so damned similar no matter if you do great or suck balls.


HOWEVER?

This is boring. At least make it FUN for us, otherwise yeah, nobody will bother.
I would definitely recommend reverting the map back, and I think you'd find that if given the ultimatum of losing the Bridge battle and crystal battle modes entirely but having the old map back OR keeping the new map and the new battle types, everyone would pick the old map. Yes, it's THAT bad.
Post edited by Longknife - Harshlands on
I <3 AGOREY

Comments

  • Jadsia - Lost City
    Jadsia - Lost City Posts: 1,322 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    1) Waaaaay too many lands.

    The most active war my squad encountered was a 13v24. The moment it ended, we never saw those guys again. It's downright difficult to find a good war with good opponents, and the style of the Nation war actually encourages squads to split up. Some may argue this offers more balance (more on that later), but I had some team fights and some 1v1 wars. Know what's more fun? The team wars. I like playing this game with friends and I like the challenge of coordinating with them against other teams. 1v1 can only be done so many times before it becomes predictable and loses it's shine.

    But in order to win with our nation, sure enough we were encouraged to split up. Because 10 people in one war was only neccesary ONCE the entire two hours, and over half of the NW I spent with only two squadmates.


    2) That stupid ****ing bridge battle.



    Ok. So this thing takes forever, has annoying towers that take forever to kill, and offers the lowest profit score for your nation.

    Wat


    Everyone I know avoided these wars like the plague, and for good reason.
    Wanna fix it? Make the towers have less HP, make these wars the MOST valuable, not the least. That way you'd encourage OP squads to enter them and duke it out, thus teamplay would happen here continuously.


    3) Nothing you do matters and everyone's a winner, and everyone has similar scores.


    Everything that used to matter has been diluted.

    I used to coordinate with other squads in nation chat. Do I do that now? No need because wtf there's 959283579823475689 lands and if an OP squad is coming we can just go around them and pick up the lands the took as they move on.

    I used to want to do good in Nation War because performing well and performing poorly could be the difference between 250 tokens and 160. Today I had the misfortune of ending up in a Bridge Battle (with two squadmates) for 20 minutes vs. a group of derps who couldn't quite figure out that if they don't let us kill their towers before the Nation War ends, no one gets points. It didn't end in time. A squadmate of mine spent that time picking up Crystal wars solo and got 4k more personal contri than me. His token score compared to mine? 114 and I got 108. Another that got 5k more somehow got 135. Decent, but nothing amazing.


    I used to want my nation to do well because if it didn't, my score would hurt. Now? Now I don't even know where to BEGIN helping my nation because there's 189578298572 damned lands out there. Also, it used to be that if my nation got fourth, even IF I did amazing, I would only be able to get ~100 tokens. Now? A squadmate with 21k personal got 135 tokens in the third place nation, another guy in the first place nation with the same score got 160. That's pathetic.



    I think I know why it was done this way.
    I'm sure there were plenty of complaints about well geared squads making more coin simply because they're already geared. This is a valid point, but unfortunately there's also others who simply made more coin because they were simply better. In that sense, it kinda encourages people to just not give a damn and stop trying, thus it kinda ruins the competition of the NW. My squad for example had two options tonight: stay together and be bored cause there's no way in hell we'd be lucky enough to run across a squad that can oppose us, or split up until we're all flying solo and just land grabbing, with winning or losing not REALLY mattering because there's dozens of other lands to choose from. FFS, two of my squadmates specifically sought crystal battles, got all 5, then ditched out to enter other wars. They did this flawlessly without opposition.

    But listen, I think most of us would be willing to accept the token scores being so damned similar no matter if you do great or suck balls.


    HOWEVER?

    This is boring. At least make it FUN for us, otherwise yeah, nobody will bother.
    I would definitely recommend reverting the map back, and I think you'd find that if given the ultimatum of losing the Bridge battle and crystal battle modes entirely but having the old map back OR keeping the new map and the new battle types, everyone would pick the old map. Yes, it's THAT bad.

    It will be rough for the time being but this type of NW map is designed for large scale Server V. Server battles. That day is coming eventually. Until then lets get ready for that by practicing this map.
    I **** bigger than you...

    Shut up and play the game.....Damn
  • Deadalus - Harshlands
    Deadalus - Harshlands Posts: 546 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I think the new map (Not the Bridge, it sucks balls) is awesome and gives someone a break from the capture the flag fiesta, when a caster (again) managed to rofllolol the flag to the goal by just running.

    I had lots of fun, had some great battles and faced enemys i actually can kill. Not that i cant kill anyone but when it was the old map, we were baselocked by ppl like you who comes up with OP squads and kills the fun for every other player who isnt that geared like you all.

    That brings the new map into play, i enjoyed that and as stated, faced good enemys which where killable but not too easy, some squads where OP (well not OP but 14vs4, you figure) and sure some battles went bad but overall, very fun NW.

    Not want to change NW again i like it more now
  • Longknife - Harshlands
    Longknife - Harshlands Posts: 4,843 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I think the new map (Not the Bridge, it sucks balls) is awesome and gives someone a break from the capture the flag fiesta, when a caster (again) managed to rofllolol the flag to the goal by just running.

    I had lots of fun, had some great battles and faced enemys i actually can kill. Not that i cant kill anyone but when it was the old map, we were baselocked by ppl like you who comes up with OP squads and kills the fun for every other player who isnt that geared like you all.

    That brings the new map into play, i enjoyed that and as stated, faced good enemys which where killable but not too easy, some squads where OP (well not OP but 14vs4, you figure) and sure some battles went bad but overall, very fun NW.

    Not want to change NW again i like it more now


    Dude I -JUST- got my OP gear (my r9rr armor is literally 2 days old), and that goes for my entire squad. We've been rocking average gear for a while (3-4 months ago, only ~2-3 of us even had r9), but now we've hit a point where yeah, we all earned the better stuff. We earned it by raking in tokens by simply outperforming others.

    That's part of my frustration: you think we hunted easy battles? No we hunted the good ones, cause the good ones generated points. You get points for taking and dealing damage, so obviously you get less if your opponent can't DD and only survives a single hit.


    And we had fun overcoming squads that were equal or better geared. It required skill, it required teamwork, it required coordination, it required strategy. If things remain as-is. I do NOT expect to find a single "squad" of any calibur ever again, because the map encourages people to split up.


    So no, I don't have to use my brain period because strategy is moot.
    No, I don't have to talk to anyone because coordination is moot.
    I don't have to bother with anything because teamwork is moot.
    And if you have high gear, you're just tab targeting.




    As I said, I don't have a beef with everyone earning the same tokens (about) and I understand why they did it, but ffs, put the map back. As it is now, there's NO WAY you'll ever see another squad vs. squad battle.
    I <3 AGOREY
  • Deadalus - Harshlands
    Deadalus - Harshlands Posts: 546 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Dude I -JUST- got my OP gear (my r9rr armor is literally 2 days old), and that goes for my entire squad. We've been rocking average gear for a while (3-4 months ago, only ~2-3 of us even had r9), but now we've hit a point where yeah, we all earned the better stuff. We earned it by raking in tokens by simply outperforming others.

    That's part of my frustration: you think we hunted easy battles? No we hunted the good ones, cause the good ones generated points. You get points for taking and dealing damage, so obviously you get less if your opponent can't DD and only survives a single hit.


    And we had fun overcoming squads that were equal or better geared. It required skill, it required teamwork, it required coordination, it required strategy. If things remain as-is. I do NOT expect to find a single "squad" of any calibur ever again, because the map encourages people to split up.


    So no, I don't have to use my brain period because strategy is moot.
    No, I don't have to talk to anyone because coordination is moot.
    I don't have to bother with anything because teamwork is moot.
    And if you have high gear, you're just tab targeting.




    As I said, I don't have a beef with everyone earning the same tokens (about) and I understand why they did it, but ffs, put the map back. As it is now, there's NO WAY you'll ever see another squad vs. squad battle.

    Well everytime i saw you, you and your squad just loled everything over by spawnraping.
    I dont say, these are cheap ways to win and/or you guys just doing such things, nono dont get me wrong here but i see that as an opening for people who never really pvped to earn some tokens to get **** done like crafting stuff.

    I think when everyone who baselocked a nation had 2 brain cells, they would have thought that something would get changed over time, because the baselocked nation is obviously not that strong against the ppl who are baselocking or are at the base really fast to do so.
    at this point, you cant baselock (or its really hart to do) and that gives everyone a chance to do battles.

    Sure the people who are searching good battles are a bit pissed now and there should be something good to gather for those people (like a battle with good points?) and that would solve everything.

    b:victory
  • Longknife - Harshlands
    Longknife - Harshlands Posts: 4,843 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Well everytime i saw you, you and your squad just loled everything over by spawnraping.
    I dont say, these are cheap ways to win and/or you guys just doing such things, nono dont get me wrong here but i see that as an opening for people who never really pvped to earn some tokens to get **** done like crafting stuff.

    I think when everyone who baselocked a nation had 2 brain cells, they would have thought that something would get changed over time, because the baselocked nation is obviously not that strong against the ppl who are baselocking or are at the base really fast to do so.
    at this point, you cant baselock (or its really hart to do) and that gives everyone a chance to do battles.

    Sure the people who are searching good battles are a bit pissed now and there should be something good to gather for those people (like a battle with good points?) and that would solve everything.

    b:victory


    Right. Cause while I would definitely say my squad earn it's gear, I understand that usually, it's already-OP-geared squads becoming richer simply because they were already rich. Hence why I'm saying I understand the token same-ness they've implemented.


    The problem is though that PWI has done away with the sheer boredom of being baselocked by downgrading the fun-factor of all other battles across the board. That's my problem. A baselock required more than one squad or an incredibly quick squad with little resistance last map, so it wasn't a regular occurance. If you were undergeared, you'd experience it maybe ~20% of the time. My problem is that now, you'll experience a "bleh" nation war 100% of the time. I would much rather have a crappy time 20% of the time than have a "bleh" time 100% of the time, personally.




    That's why I suggest they either re-do the map or tweak the points for the battle types. Setting the map back to the way it was would do fine, otherwise give one of the three battle types drastically more nation contribution (and maybe personal contribution) so that it attracts the OP squads. Honestly, the bridge battle could give 2x the personal contri and Nation contri of the others and it'd STILL be fine because those things take so damned long. Hell, maybe even x3 would do it.



    I get that they want to even out the income, but I also like for any work I do to actually matter. Give people SOME incentive to do well; AKA either make the map small enough that running into strong squads is likely, or make one of the three battle types reward overall better scores IF you can handle it, thus the strongest would flock to them while the weaker would learn to avoid them.
    I <3 AGOREY
  • Sel_Darkmore - Dreamweaver
    Sel_Darkmore - Dreamweaver Posts: 350 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    IDK about yall but today i had a Blast ..was fun for me found some great battles ..crystal one for me made me feel pressure, bridge fights was awsome high score battles.

    PPl complaint of low token count but they had high cred..well..why u think that was so?...easy think about it..WAS SOO EASY to get high cred count. hell clocking 10k cred wasnt even hard to get.

    I pulled what i normally pull so for me no complaint there. I think some ppl see higher cred and expect MORE tokens..that could be called greed, cause i bet yall had about the same or even less of the kill count then normal old NW map.

    Today in my Server in my nation ..I loved it ..communication was going on as a nation etc. And in the end 1st place.
    To think your OP is Fail, To know your role is OP
    Team work is Flawless,
    To think your better then the rest is shabby.

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  • Aurantiumina - Heavens Tear
    Aurantiumina - Heavens Tear Posts: 344 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I know people who used to get 400+ tokens

    I'm talking about +12 josd people

    Now they got 250ish tokens


    You know what? I freaking love it. You can cry all you want, but when people were able to get 400 tokens whike others had to be happy with 40, I'm sorry, but that just wasn't fair.


    I do agree that map is crazy big and hopefully SvS will be implemented soon, because otherwise this map size is kinda pointless :<
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  • NigeIus - Dreamweaver
    NigeIus - Dreamweaver Posts: 399 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I know people who used to get 400+ tokens

    I'm talking about +12 josd people

    Now they got 250ish tokens


    You know what? I freaking love it. You can cry all you want, but when people were able to get 400 tokens whike others had to be happy with 40, I'm sorry, but that just wasn't fair.


    yeah but u know what? those ppl that used to get 40tkns now get 0! i used to get around 150-180 tkns,in bad nation, best i got was 370, yesterday i got 82 tokens... and ppl with my same contribution but in teh wining nation got around 180, soo i have to be in a wining nation to get what i used to get in a bad nation..... thinking this only affect +12josd ppl is stupid. it affects everybody and guess what? it affects most to the non cashplayers. perhaps u are a cash player adn u dont realize. but i am not and i do realize that this isnt good.
  • Ssaassaa - Lost City
    Ssaassaa - Lost City Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Played a level 92 Barb with hh 90 gear +5 all.

    Got today 69 Supply Tokens.

    In 3 old NW never got any.

    Im happy.
  • XCableX - Archosaur
    XCableX - Archosaur Posts: 1,338 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    New maps were pretty fun.

    Rewards? My god. lol

    I reallly didn't like Cap the Flag map just due to the caster's advantage in that but heck.
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  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    You don't really need much incentive to kill people. When SP was PvP enabled, people just went in there to fight, where was the reward? The heart of it all is fighting, and that hasn't really changed for me.
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
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  • CapnK - Sanctuary
    CapnK - Sanctuary Posts: 1,166 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I like the new instances, but yeah getting an even fight is ridiculous with the map size. I think best fix for now is change the max number of people in each. Flag 15v15, Bridge 10v10, Crystal 10v10 or 15v15.
  • Professor_X - Heavens Tear
    Professor_X - Heavens Tear Posts: 102 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    New Nation Wars...

    I feared it would suck due to the large size of the map, but wanted to try it first before I complained.. Now that I have tried it, I think it's safe to say that they've ruined this for me.

    1. It's not about the tokens. I still got 350+ Tokens from Nation Wars, but I had much less fun doing it.

    2. DC.DC.DC.DC.. 4/10 of our squad left us before it even started and did not end up in the same nation as us. That kinda sucks that they can't fix that part and it seems to have gotten worse.

    3. While I love the new battles, it IS TOO SPREAD OUT! All the battles I entered were very one sided. It was a wasted 2 hours of running around looking for a good battle, but we never found one.

    4. Please make the map smaller... Please please please... Don't ruin the best thing you've added to the game in a long time.
  • Aurantiumina - Heavens Tear
    Aurantiumina - Heavens Tear Posts: 344 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    yeah but u know what? those ppl that used to get 40tkns now get 0! i used to get around 150-180 tkns,in bad nation, best i got was 370, yesterday i got 82 tokens... and ppl with my same contribution but in teh wining nation got around 180, soo i have to be in a wining nation to get what i used to get in a bad nation..... thinking this only affect +12josd ppl is stupid. it affects everybody and guess what? it affects most to the non cashplayers. perhaps u are a cash player adn u dont realize. but i am not and i do realize that this isnt good.

    Interestingly I got the same amount of tokens I always got (70), for the same amount of credit I always got (9kish), in a losing nation...so, your argument is invalid. The token distribution is fine (and obviously I'm not cash shopper...with 70 tokens...lol).


    Also all this QQ after 1 (ONE) NW is childish, none of the reported results are statistically relevant, if this set up trully sucks or wins can be determined on the long run only.
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  • seitori
    seitori Posts: 1,328 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I think the new map (Not the Bridge, it sucks balls) is awesome and gives someone a break from the capture the flag fiesta, when a caster (again) managed to rofllolol the flag to the goal by just running.

    I had lots of fun, had some great battles and faced enemys i actually can kill. Not that i cant kill anyone but when it was the old map, we were baselocked by ppl like you who comes up with OP squads and kills the fun for every other player who isnt that geared like you all.

    That brings the new map into play, i enjoyed that and as stated, faced good enemys which where killable but not too easy, some squads where OP (well not OP but 14vs4, you figure) and sure some battles went bad but overall, very fun NW.

    Not want to change NW again i like it more now


    ^^Exactly!! Very Well Said!!!b:victory


    And BTW (OP) Me and 4 others Utterly Destroyed multiple Bridge stages in about a little less then 2.5 minutes (on average)!! we found them quite easy to deal with and defeat!!!! (Despite their High HP & their occasional Spamming triple Stun shot AoE's on us)>>>b:chuckle
  • Reliea - Sanctuary
    Reliea - Sanctuary Posts: 685 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I know people who used to get 400+ tokens
    I'm talking about +12 josd people
    Now they got 250ish tokens
    You know what? I freaking love it. You can cry all you want, but when people were able to get 400 tokens whike others had to be happy with 40, I'm sorry, but that just wasn't fair.
    I agree with you. I love it, I freaking love it XD

    That being said, the map is WAY too big. Obscenely huge. Biggest complaint by far that people seem to be in agreement on.
    On the one hand though, it's a good thing for some players. Some people avoid battles with large numbers of players/any players at all because their level is low so they can't compete against higher level players, or their gear is not superfantastic, so they can gather contrib by winning lands "solo", which does help the team anyway. Of course you get more contrib from strong Vs. but this approach to NW is better for people who do poorly Vs. others.
    Sometimes I pop into empty lands when I need a little break from heavy pvp action or get split up from teammates and need to wait to regroup with them in another nearby land.

    The best thing to do if you don't want to face nobody is to join battles already running or start ones that are in clear areas of heavy conflict. It pays in some ways not to spread out too far too fast.

    The Crystal Capture map is spectacular! I was really looking forward to this feature because it reminded me of my first MMO which had a pvp map like this running regularly. I adored it then, and I adored it now! Thank you thank you thank you :D
    With this map, sometimes the long way 'round is better than going straight to the crystal points. When people get more comfortable with this map some good strategy with fast runners may be able to pull off a win against a better equipped team in a way that isn't possible in the capture the flag map.

    The Tower Destroying map can go back to the bottom of the hell from which it was dragged. It sucks so hard it's impossible to truly express the degree of its suckage. It should really be called Archer Vs Archer, and the rest of us just stay the hell away >.> I am so glad that we are able to see the type of battle before we enter it, because I will never go back to that style of battle ever again. I will walk around them, or just sit and wait if I have no other option. Enough people seem to hate this battle style that I'm pretty confident that it's hard to argue for it.

    Me personally, my nation came in 3rd I think.
    Over all I gained about 2-3000 more contribution than my best previous score, and gained 10-20 more tokens than my best average non-winning nation reward. Interestingly enough, I think I did less pvp at that, for what ended up being more contrib and more reward, so I 100% can't complain about that.

    Though I found occasionally in mostly 'empty' battles when I did 95%-100% of the flag or crystal caping that I did not come in first, I felt tiny amounts of rage. There should be enough contrib gained from caping things to guarantee 1st place for the majority cap'er in a mostly empty battle, so they could really do with boosting that a tad.

    Over all, I have a big enthusiastic thumbs up to give to this NW update! Remove Tower battles and shrink the map and it'll be perfection in my eyes :3
  • Untamed_pain - Archosaur
    Untamed_pain - Archosaur Posts: 533 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    i liked NW but omg the map can hurt your eyes lol. We can keep all 3 battle styles but maybe lose some of the lands of each place.
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  • Nariin - Dreamweaver
    Nariin - Dreamweaver Posts: 890 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    i liked NW but omg the map can hurt your eyes lol. We can keep all 3 battle styles but maybe lose some of the lands of each place.

    Well the question is if it is technically possible. The 2 new battles were probably intended for server vs server (or they have a much larger population) so it might be directly linked to the map size.
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  • Fabuleux - Lost City
    Fabuleux - Lost City Posts: 920 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    What nobody has mentioned (and I don't know why) is that unfortunately the NW system (along with everything else) comes direct from Wanmei Games (aka, PW China). China and PW Japan have server v server so the map needed to increase in size. That's not so great for PWI (anyone know if PW Malaysia, Russia, etc has the new NW and how it's going?). The GM's have said Server V Server isn't possible at this time but they're working on it.

    I was in loosing nation today, had 9880 personal credits and got 63 tokens. Which is about usual for me. Maybe people are experiencing a different amount of tokens due to less players in the NW/more players in the NW. Don't forget the amount of players and how many players are in each nation effects the token distribution. If you hover the chest, you'll see the total amount of Tokens being distributed in that battle. And i've noticed it changes with how many players there are.

    Once people get used to it and it starts to get more popular with the new battle types, we may see an increase in participants. As for the bridge battle, it can be a charm disaster and the towers can be long. I mean they respawn twice before they officially go so.... But people will start to get the hang of it in no time :)

    Give it some time and a few weeks before you start jumping down it's throat. I thoroughly enjoyed myself today. It was a lot of fun to see how China improved it.
  • DeffyNature - Archosaur
    DeffyNature - Archosaur Posts: 1,400 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I just loved it, I actually had fun!
    No more base-locking, no more repeated spawn killings by stealthed sin waiting for a squishy caster in the spawn points, with the new crystal map.
    I was disappointed about the archer npcs, they wouldn't attack a ranged DD, like a psy, so we still got creamed in one battle at spawn point.
    Super, super fun!
    My wiz got 10.6k contribution and 96 tokens in the 3rd nation. He usually got around 3.5k contri, with 50 tokens.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver
    Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver Posts: 301 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I like new content in nw but omg shrink that map please!!!!

    I enjoy battles and I come to nw to fight not to walk around like maniac true empty lands.

    Good part is I never spent less on my charm, it barely ticked, but was so boring. If this map stay this big less and less people will play it because its just to dmn boring.
  • trufflles
    trufflles Posts: 68 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    no worries the little mushrooms like those empty battles/ PVE with no mobs.....and by the time pwi will fix this....NW will become an obsolete instance boring and with chance based low rewards.

    i think i'll just bring one of my alts undergeared and uncharmed cuz now it seems it will gain the same as my main (only with no costs) just cuz u know THE BATTLES ARE FREAKING EMPTY anyway. i see a large potential of multiclienting anyway b:laugh. let the best computer win b:thanks
  • Apostasy - Raging Tide
    Apostasy - Raging Tide Posts: 1,197 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    If they are bringing us Server VS Server in for NW... this map is perfect in size...

    If they are NOT bringing us Server VS Server... we need to back track the map back to the last map we just came from...

    PS. And yeah, that bridge battle type was like fighting TW towers without catabarbs and catapults... ouch... but was still doable...

    So 1. keep the new battlefields, and 2. adjust either to server VS server OR to the last map size.

    OMG. another thread about the new nation wars is probably right... 1. the last nw map probably cant support the new battlefields... AND our pwi version probably cant support server VS server... or at least that's what we gonna get told b:cry
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Arawin - Raging Tide
    Arawin - Raging Tide Posts: 256 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    1) Waaaaay too many lands.

    The most active war my squad encountered was a 13v24. The moment it ended, we never saw those guys again. It's downright difficult to find a good war with good opponents, and the style of the Nation war actually encourages squads to split up. Some may argue this offers more balance (more on that later), but I had some team fights and some 1v1 wars. Know what's more fun? The team wars. I like playing this game with friends and I like the challenge of coordinating with them against other teams. 1v1 can only be done so many times before it becomes predictable and loses it's shine.

    But in order to win with our nation, sure enough we were encouraged to split up. Because 10 people in one war was only neccesary ONCE the entire two hours, and over half of the NW I spent with only two squadmates.


    2) That stupid ****ing bridge battle.



    Ok. So this thing takes forever, has annoying towers that take forever to kill, and offers the lowest profit score for your nation.

    Wat


    Everyone I know avoided these wars like the plague, and for good reason.
    Wanna fix it? Make the towers have less HP, make these wars the MOST valuable, not the least. That way you'd encourage OP squads to enter them and duke it out, thus teamplay would happen here continuously.


    3) Nothing you do matters and everyone's a winner, and everyone has similar scores.


    Everything that used to matter has been diluted.

    I used to coordinate with other squads in nation chat. Do I do that now? No need because wtf there's 959283579823475689 lands and if an OP squad is coming we can just go around them and pick up the lands the took as they move on.

    I used to want to do good in Nation War because performing well and performing poorly could be the difference between 250 tokens and 160. Today I had the misfortune of ending up in a Bridge Battle (with two squadmates) for 20 minutes vs. a group of derps who couldn't quite figure out that if they don't let us kill their towers before the Nation War ends, no one gets points. It didn't end in time. A squadmate of mine spent that time picking up Crystal wars solo and got 4k more personal contri than me. His token score compared to mine? 114 and I got 108. Another that got 5k more somehow got 135. Decent, but nothing amazing.


    I used to want my nation to do well because if it didn't, my score would hurt. Now? Now I don't even know where to BEGIN helping my nation because there's 189578298572 damned lands out there. Also, it used to be that if my nation got fourth, even IF I did amazing, I would only be able to get ~100 tokens. Now? A squadmate with 21k personal got 135 tokens in the third place nation, another guy in the first place nation with the same score got 160. That's pathetic.



    I think I know why it was done this way.
    I'm sure there were plenty of complaints about well geared squads making more coin simply because they're already geared. This is a valid point, but unfortunately there's also others who simply made more coin because they were simply better. In that sense, it kinda encourages people to just not give a damn and stop trying, thus it kinda ruins the competition of the NW. My squad for example had two options tonight: stay together and be bored cause there's no way in hell we'd be lucky enough to run across a squad that can oppose us, or split up until we're all flying solo and just land grabbing, with winning or losing not REALLY mattering because there's dozens of other lands to choose from. FFS, two of my squadmates specifically sought crystal battles, got all 5, then ditched out to enter other wars. They did this flawlessly without opposition.

    But listen, I think most of us would be willing to accept the token scores being so damned similar no matter if you do great or suck balls.


    HOWEVER?

    This is boring. At least make it FUN for us, otherwise yeah, nobody will bother.
    I would definitely recommend reverting the map back, and I think you'd find that if given the ultimatum of losing the Bridge battle and crystal battle modes entirely but having the old map back OR keeping the new map and the new battle types, everyone would pick the old map. Yes, it's THAT bad.

    I disagree on bridge battles. I found bridge battles fun.
    HOWEVER, I agree 100% with the entire rest of your post.

    As someone who usually got 250-350 tokens... getting an astounding 122 tonight was most shocking. Hearing people with HALF my points getting 100 tokens was also rather... surprising. They really have removed ANY point to seeking high scores, or seeing good matches. You'll always get poor rewards no matter what you do now, so as you've stated in OP, the competitive nature is completely gone. Sad.
  • trands
    trands Posts: 2
    edited June 2013
    1) Waaaaay too many lands.

    Agreed on this. This map encourages for everyone to split up and doing solo/duo maps without opponents. Most of the time, when entering with 3+, the 2 from the other nation on the map left within a minute.
    2) That stupid ****ing bridge battle.[/U][/B]

    It's hard to really say something about the new battles, as I had none with actual enemies. I didn't particularly dislike the bridge battle though. 1st took ages indeed. But from 2nd on, it was pretty fast as ppl actually worked togather. With 5+ ppl focussing on 1 tower, it's pretty fast unless they are all lvl60.

    If they do change something, I'd rather see the towers have 1 less respawn. Giving them less hp will just lead to 1 op player IG destroy a tower with all it's respawns.
    3) Nothing you do matters and everyone's a winner, and everyone has similar scores.

    I don't have much problems with this. Personally, I even got tokens with lvl60~80 alts so never really understood how some didn't get anything. My score wasn't bad but I only got 104 tokens (was in last nation though). If it's devided differently to less favor OP ppl, so be it. I can't say I care much.
    I used to want my nation to do well because if it didn't, my score would hurt.

    Yeah right, it just stayed at hoping. Working for nations interest also was going against personal credits before. I always got most points by just trolling around in white voodoo in battles I was outnumbered while only doing my best to drag it as long as possible (and NOT winning it even if I could). In squad and working for my nations score, I never get as much personal credits and would only beat in number of tokens if I got unlucky on nation solo.
    HOWEVER?

    This is boring. At least make it FUN for us, otherwise yeah, nobody will bother.
    I would definitely recommend reverting the map back, and I think you'd find that if given the ultimatum of losing the Bridge battle and crystal battle modes entirely but having the old map back OR keeping the new map and the new battle types, everyone would pick the old map. Yes, it's THAT bad.

    After 1 NW, not going to say that yet. I'm not interested in server vs server, as that's garanteed to be US time based anyway. So for now, I do like the old size better.
  • Rubybeard - Archosaur
    Rubybeard - Archosaur Posts: 134 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    lol yea the bridge battle is really lameeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
    and the point nerf is too damn annoying, i scored aprox 10k on saturday, on losing nation i usually get more than 100 tokens for 10k points (thats like 4th place)
    last saturday i got only 81 tokens b:laughb:laugh lameeeeeeeeeeeeee
    but its good for the economy cause i will be able to sell my tokens for more now
  • Sheswes - Heavens Tear
    Sheswes - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,216 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    lol yea the bridge battle is really lameeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
    and the point nerf is too damn annoying, i scored aprox 10k on saturday, on losing nation i usually get more than 100 tokens for 10k points (thats like 4th place)
    last saturday i got only 81 tokens b:laughb:laugh lameeeeeeeeeeeeee
    but its good for the economy cause i will be able to sell my tokens for more now

    keep dreaming - the total amount of tokens didn't change at all
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    scruuuuuuuubs killa b:cute Nation War champion b:cool
  • _Mictian_ - Archosaur
    _Mictian_ - Archosaur Posts: 88 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    +1 to what has been said + disable flyer in crystal map or just lower the fly box

    keep territories around nation bases like this, but reduce total number of territories also if bridge maps dont have at least 10 people in any side they are a plain /leave, reduce hp of those towers
  • Apostasy - Raging Tide
    Apostasy - Raging Tide Posts: 1,197 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    +1 to what has been said + disable flyer in crystal map or just lower the fly box

    keep territories around nation bases like this, but reduce total number of territories also if bridge maps dont have at least 10 people in any side they are a plain /leave, reduce hp of those towers

    nah... towers are easy to tear down if i was solo in bridge battle b:chuckle

    i just cant stand all the extra effects they have while getting squad r***ed by opposition at the same time b:surrender
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver
    PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,507 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I don't see why reducing the diff between the nations is a bad thing. In fact I believe it's a good thing.

    the only reason to give way more points is to motivate people to sacrifice their personal gain (either in fun, points etc) so the nation can win so they can get more points...uuuum so if you reduce the diff people won't have to do sacrifices; isn't that a good thing?
    you only purge once #yopo