Those poor puppies die when...
Comments
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A certain barb from a latin faction on RT killed many puppies(and a FC squad) today by...
...wearing phys. def. ornaments only(no single elem. res. ornie).
...using 2 holy paths on magic pull in FC.
...not waiting Kitty's mystic to give him Falling Petals and Salvation shell before that pull.
...starting pull 10 secs after archer had DC'd.
...using Roar, but not any other AoE skill after that on first pull so DDs got aggro the instant they opened fire. And they waited long before starting barrage. DDs down and barb uses Sunder to kill couple remaining mobs.
...dying in 1,5 secs after Invoke wore off at that magic pull(didn't get it down in time 'cause of earlier mentioned). From 14,4k HP and Spidervine decreasing dmg mobs did, Healing Herb, Salvation shell, vital herb and Kitty's mystic single-target healing him.f:sweat
And after all those flaws blaming the squadwipe on Kitty's mystic. "Thanks for not healing."f:hehe[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Final ragequit on 21/02/2014 'cause ARC. Back on 15/04/2014, RL was bored.
Ten Paths of Kittyness(old mains when deleted): Kittysama 100(100) Sage HA-Venomancer |Aivina 100(101) Sage (ex-Zerk) Str. Seeker | Kittytart 90(101) Demon All path Zerk BM | KittyFishie 92(101) Demon APS/DPH Zerk Assassin | Haroin 100(100) Demon Vit. Zerk Barbarian | Elfborn 82(100) Demon Cleric | Pessimiste 85(100) Sage Wizard | PalavaEnkeli 87(100) Demon Fist/APS-Archer | VerenVanki 85(100) Demon Mystic | MerenPeto 85(100) Sage Psychic
Current mains: Old psy and 19 new/recreated mains(avg. level 82)0 -
Kittysama - Raging Tide wrote: »...using 2 holy paths on magic pull in FC.
So do I. It depends where you actually use them - it's good to cast first Holy Path when you turn left and next one right before shade. Casters should be able to catch up with holy paths as well.0 -
Korpinsulka - Raging Tide wrote: »So do I. It depends where you actually use them - it's good to cast first Holy Path when you turn left and next one right before shade. Casters should be able to catch up with holy paths as well.
That kind of use wouldn't be a problem but he HP-spammed the whole pull after first couple groups, right so it ended before reaching shade. And as he had archer's speedbuff for those couple first groups...that alone made about 10 secs longer time for DDs to arrive as he had almost doublespeed compared to others(for normal-speed caster it takes about 20 secs from corner shade to left-turn. Why others didn't have that buff too? They had to HP(and so lost it) to the corner shade to catch up with the barb(who ofc didn't need to use it and so didn't lose archer buff) and then archer dc'd so they couldn't get it again. With wizzie and psy being the remaining DDs against magic mobs, it was pretty clear they couldn't kill the mobs in less than 10 secs.
Sorry for perhaps hard-to-understand text. Had to include many circumstances in one post.
And one dead puppy that Kitty forgot to report. That barb didn't move from circles at first boss even when told to. If Kitty didn't use Salvation when she's healing, that barb would have died to 3 circles at once.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Final ragequit on 21/02/2014 'cause ARC. Back on 15/04/2014, RL was bored.
Ten Paths of Kittyness(old mains when deleted): Kittysama 100(100) Sage HA-Venomancer |Aivina 100(101) Sage (ex-Zerk) Str. Seeker | Kittytart 90(101) Demon All path Zerk BM | KittyFishie 92(101) Demon APS/DPH Zerk Assassin | Haroin 100(100) Demon Vit. Zerk Barbarian | Elfborn 82(100) Demon Cleric | Pessimiste 85(100) Sage Wizard | PalavaEnkeli 87(100) Demon Fist/APS-Archer | VerenVanki 85(100) Demon Mystic | MerenPeto 85(100) Sage Psychic
Current mains: Old psy and 19 new/recreated mains(avg. level 82)0 -
Korpinsulka - Raging Tide wrote: »So do I. It depends where you actually use them - it's good to cast first Holy Path when you turn left and next one right before shade. Casters should be able to catch up with holy paths as well.
Meh, I've disliked Holy Path on barbs for a long time but its kind of one of those "to each his own" issues. 10 m/s base run speed kind of makes HP pointless unless your run speed is reduced. Holy Path is for barbs who'd rather dodge mobs then actually tank them. The problem is dodging them then means the other 5 people in your squad also have to dodge them and HP ahead to keep up with you who has the combined 15 m/s HP and 10 m/s base.
The biggest issue is most HPs lead to mobs scraping off on walls around bends or just getting so far out distanced they reset and half the time its onto your squad. Barbs should tank mobs, not runaway from them.Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory0 -
Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »Meh, I've disliked Holy Path on barbs for a long time but its kind of one of those "to each his own" issues. 10 m/s base run speed kind of makes HP pointless unless your run speed is reduced. Holy Path is for barbs who'd rather dodge mobs then actually tank them. The problem is dodging them then means the other 5 people in your squad also have to dodge them and HP ahead to keep up with you who has the combined 15 m/s HP and 10 m/s base.
The biggest issue is most HPs lead to mobs scraping off on walls around bends or just getting so far out distanced they reset and half the time its onto your squad. Barbs should tank mobs, not runaway from them.
I totally get your point and personally at 90+ I stopped HPing most pulls totally. Nowadays I use it only if I feel I need to run faster than rest of my squad (for example to get invoke-sunder-arma combo befor seeker throws vortex down OR I get arma timed with HF).
However, in FC, especially lvl 8x barbs doing magic pull... situations change. That pull is pretty tricky without holy path, some other genie skill, apoth, charm or superior gear at certain levels. Personally I ran with unsharded TT 70 and magic ornaments when I was pulling at lvl 8x in FC and holy path in magic pull helped to get invoke down. Timing it right also helped the squad to catch me up.
However, I don't understand people who try to HP through the big pull in FC or start HPing at the very start of magic pulls Now the issue you described will happen - mobs cant keep up and they reset. Some seekers told me they cannot pull without HPbecause mobs wll surely reset and I asked have you even tried. I never got an answer. Same seekers claim hey must use 3 HPs so the mobs wouldnt reset becaue they're slower than barbs... ehh.
I personally use a lot Solid Shield / True Emptiness / AD as aid on tricky pulls.0 -
Korpinsulka - Raging Tide wrote: »I totally get your point and personally at 90+ I stopped HPing most pulls totally. Nowadays I use it only if I feel I need to run faster than rest of my squad (for example to get invoke-sunder-arma combo befor seeker throws vortex down OR I get arma timed with HF).
However, in FC, especially lvl 8x barbs doing magic pull... situations change. That pull is pretty tricky without holy path, some other genie skill, apoth, charm or superior gear at certain levels. Personally I ran with unsharded TT 70 and magic ornaments when I was pulling at lvl 8x in FC and holy path in magic pull helped to get invoke down. Timing it right also helped the squad to catch me up.
However, I don't understand people who try to HP through the big pull in FC or start HPing at the very start of magic pulls Now the issue you described will happen - mobs cant keep up and they reset. Some seekers told me they cannot pull without HPbecause mobs wll surely reset and I asked have you even tried. I never got an answer. Same seekers claim hey must use 3 HPs so the mobs wouldnt reset becaue they're slower than barbs... ehh.
I personally use a lot Solid Shield / True Emptiness / AD as aid on tricky pulls.
I took HP off my genie at 89 when I got demon tiger form because with the run boost it was no longer needed, not to mention the increase in hp, and I think that was the right time to do it. You removed ToP which is an odd choice for a few reasons. ToP is % of total hp, and barbs have huge hp pools. ToP increases max hp prior to filling your hp, so you can ToP->Bestial Rage and get the the magic shield because your hp will be below 50%. And lastly ToP-> Arma combo is awesome because you get stronger Armas and you end with filled hp bar. Think its much more valuable than HP.
As for "tricky pulls." Yah, it can be rough. I wouldn't try to do a full magic hall pull without at least 10k hp, but by 12k hp it should be fine if you know how to do it right (And honestly, what barbs don't have 10k hp at level 80 nowadays? I mean, they give you orbs to refine G8 gear +5 for free). I used the trick mentioned above where I'd run down the hall past the door to the last 2 groups of mobs, I'd ToP as I circled back through them and use Bestial Rage since my hp was below half cause of the ToP. Now the mobs are behind me and out of range of attacking, I have a magic shield, and I have a genie filling up again. By the time I reach the shade my magic shield is gone but my hp is full. Invoke and solid shield are still readily available and Bestial Rage will be ready again soon.
The last benefit of not Holy Pathing that I didn't mention earlier is mobs stay grouped together. Holy Pathing often makes mobs follow you at different angles and so they reach you in this long spreadout chain. Hard for a BM to stun and hard for people to aoe/debuff the whole bunch.
Pulling on my seeker was much rougher and I did have to use Holy Path, but I waited till the end just to get the distance to setup a vortex otherwise it gets interupted. Seekers have it rough since they don't outrun the mobs. They literally walk amongst the mobs getting beat on the whole time. Seekers have great defenses and hp food can replace it as quickly as they lose it, but my repair bill on a seeker was so much higher because I wasn't out running the mobs like a barb naturally does.Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory0 -
when they aren't in invoke the spirit and get sparked.What can you expect from filthy little heathens? Their whole disgusting race is like a curse. Their skin's a hellish red they're only good when dead they're vermin, as I said and worse. They're Savages! Savages! Barely even human. Savages! Savages! Drive them from our shore! They're not like you and me
which means they must be evil we must sound the drums of war! They're Savages! Savages! Dirty redskin devils! Now we sound the drums of war!0 -
Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »I took HP off my genie at 89 when I got demon tiger form because with the run boost it was no longer needed, not to mention the increase in hp, and I think that was the right time to do it. You removed ToP which is an odd choice for a few reasons. ToP is % of total hp, and barbs have huge hp pools. ToP increases max hp prior to filling your hp, so you can ToP->Bestial Rage and get the the magic shield because your hp will be below 50%. And lastly ToP-> Arma combo is awesome because you get stronger Armas and you end with filled hp bar. Think its much more valuable than HP.
As for "tricky pulls." Yah, it can be rough. I wouldn't try to do a full magic hall pull without at least 10k hp, but by 12k hp it should be fine if you know how to do it right (And honestly, what barbs don't have 10k hp at level 80 nowadays? I mean, they give you orbs to refine G8 gear +5 for free). I used the trick mentioned above where I'd run down the hall past the door to the last 2 groups of mobs, I'd ToP as I circled back through them and use Bestial Rage since my hp was below half cause of the ToP. Now the mobs are behind me and out of range of attacking, I have a magic shield, and I have a genie filling up again. By the time I reach the shade my magic shield is gone but my hp is full. Invoke and solid shield are still readily available and Bestial Rage will be ready again soon.
The last benefit of not Holy Pathing that I didn't mention earlier is mobs stay grouped together. Holy Pathing often makes mobs follow you at different angles and so they reach you in this long spreadout chain. Hard for a BM to stun and hard for people to aoe/debuff the whole bunch.
Pulling on my seeker was much rougher and I did have to use Holy Path, but I waited till the end just to get the distance to setup a vortex otherwise it gets interupted. Seekers have it rough since they don't outrun the mobs. They literally walk amongst the mobs getting beat on the whole time. Seekers have great defenses and hp food can replace it as quickly as they lose it, but my repair bill on a seeker was so much higher because I wasn't out running the mobs like a barb naturally does.
I do have ToP on my genie, forgot to mention it b:laugh saved my *** a lot in 90+ FC where I stopped HPing at the magic pull.
Bestial Rage... it's ool skill and I doubt that many barbs pay attention to the magic shield part these days. I used it mostly in Warsong though, didn't really use it in FC magic pull if I remember correctly..Leader of Cyanure on Valonsurma and a proud member of Vertu
Demon Strength Barbarian 103/103/101
Demon Pure Mag Cleric 102/102/101 | Demon 4 APS Assassin 102/102/101 | Demon Pure Mag Mystic 102/101/101 | Demon Pure Mag Psychic 100/100/93 | Demon 4 APS-Barbarian 100/100 | HA-venomancer 100 | DPH Assassin 100 | Pure Mag Wizard 100 | Demon Pure Mag Stormbringer 96 | Demon DPS Archer 94 | Sage Vit Barbarian 93 | Demon All-Path Blademaster 93 | Str Seeker 86 | Pure Mag Venomancer 81 | Pure Mag Wizard 81 | Pure Dex Duskblade 470 -
HrunsPanda - Archosaur wrote: »Oh and the puppies die when:
Barbs think it is stupid to stat vit even while their weapons arent +12 yet and then choose to invest in armor refinements rather than first getting that weapon to +12.
I guess I'm confused here, because a barbs more important weapon is their HP....It's a game and I'm proud to be a stupid fail demon barb!
My EPIC Fail Demon Barb has 40k/48k HP and my stat points are as follows:
VIT 552 STR 310 DEX 60! b:surrender0 -
SteelStar - Heavens Tear wrote: »I guess I'm confused here, because a barbs more important weapon is their HP....
Since when? I have 19,5k HP standing and I can do all PVE-content. For what I need more vitality?Leader of Cyanure on Valonsurma and a proud member of Vertu
Demon Strength Barbarian 103/103/101
Demon Pure Mag Cleric 102/102/101 | Demon 4 APS Assassin 102/102/101 | Demon Pure Mag Mystic 102/101/101 | Demon Pure Mag Psychic 100/100/93 | Demon 4 APS-Barbarian 100/100 | HA-venomancer 100 | DPH Assassin 100 | Pure Mag Wizard 100 | Demon Pure Mag Stormbringer 96 | Demon DPS Archer 94 | Sage Vit Barbarian 93 | Demon All-Path Blademaster 93 | Str Seeker 86 | Pure Mag Venomancer 81 | Pure Mag Wizard 81 | Pure Dex Duskblade 470 -
Colum - Raging Tide wrote: »Since when? I have 19,5k HP standing and I can do all PVE-content. For what I need more vitality?
Can you mob a whole wave of delta? Didn't think so. How well does your class specific skill Armageddon work? Probably less than any wizard's aoe damage. If you want to be a monster at damage dealing, then roll a different class.It's a game and I'm proud to be a stupid fail demon barb!
My EPIC Fail Demon Barb has 40k/48k HP and my stat points are as follows:
VIT 552 STR 310 DEX 60! b:surrender0 -
Mob a wave of delta? Not sure what that even means...SteelStar - Heavens Tear wrote: »Can you mob a whole wave of delta.
It takes about 14k hp to tank a Delta, 12k if charmed. Hp higher than that is just gravy.
At endgame the difference between 3 vit and 250 vit is like 12% hp. Considering Armageddon is hp, mana, and chi it would means the difference between a vit barbs arma and a pure barbs arma is less than 12%. Its also a 2 spark eating skill with a 30 second cooldown, meaning you use it once for every 5-8 other aoes you use. Meaning vit is nice for 1 skill, strength/refines is nice for the rest of them.
And strength goes further for survivability against phys mobs since its a better def multiplier.
Anyway, Hruns and I have debated statting and refining priority before. His point is its much easier to stat vit and refine 1 weapon than it is to stat strength and refine 6 pieces of armor for hp and survivability. My argument is you only have 1 piece of gear you can refine for more damage/aggro but you have 6 pieces of gear you can refine for more survivability. And endgame, unless you're pulling a cata, you'll want the stats in strength more than vit so that incurs an extra restatting cost you could have just put towards refines in the first place.Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory0 -
I agree with the refine argument, but as far as the whole vit and str concept, why roll a barb if your worried about damage? A barb will never compare to any other class when it comes to physical damage unless your referring to armageddon.Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »Mob a wave of delta? Not sure what that even means...
It takes about 14k hp to tank a Delta, 12k if charmed. Hp higher than that is just gravy.
At endgame the difference between 3 vit and 250 vit is like 12% hp. Considering Armageddon is hp, mana, and chi it would means the difference between a vit barbs arma and a pure barbs arma is less than 12%. Its also a 2 spark eating skill with a 30 second cooldown, meaning you use it once for every 5-8 other aoes you use. Meaning vit is nice for 1 skill, strength/refines is nice for the rest of them.
And strength goes further for survivability against phys mobs since its a better def multiplier.
Anyway, Hruns and I have debated statting and refining priority before. His point is its much easier to stat vit and refine 1 weapon than it is to stat strength and refine 6 pieces of armor for hp and survivability. My argument is you only have 1 piece of gear you can refine for more damage/aggro but you have 6 pieces of gear you can refine for more survivability. And endgame, unless you're pulling a cata, you'll want the stats in strength more than vit so that incurs an extra restatting cost you could have just put towards refines in the first place.It's a game and I'm proud to be a stupid fail demon barb!
My EPIC Fail Demon Barb has 40k/48k HP and my stat points are as follows:
VIT 552 STR 310 DEX 60! b:surrender0 -
SteelStar - Heavens Tear wrote: »Can you mob a whole wave of delta? Didn't think so. How well does your class specific skill Armageddon work? Probably less than any wizard's aoe damage. If you want to be a monster at damage dealing, then roll a different class.
I can pull in delta from the Eye instead of spawnpoint if that's what you meant - I started pulling from the eye actually. With 15k HP.
I am quite happy with my DDing on barb, too bad you aren't happy wit yours.
Demon spark+sunder+arma+surf impact+roar work pretty nice and after said combo the pull is dead. b:bye0 -
SteelStar - Heavens Tear wrote: »A barb will never compare to any other class when it comes to physical damage unless your referring to armageddon.
Lol, well for typical aps setup we fall like 1-3% behind a bm, but we can also be full r9 and have higher dps (and highest surviviabilit of any aps) than BMs. With the rebalancing of dagger damage, G16 and r9t3 sins are only about 10-15% ahead of us which isn't much (compare 200k aps barbs to 230k sins to 40k vit barbs). With an axe setup we have some of the highest spike dph available. Skills like Sunder often hit as hard for me as Armageddon since it auto crits and even with +6 Morai axes it's not uncommon for me to hit mobs in the 200-300k dph range. And then we have Arma, the hardest hitting skill in the game.
Sorry you're not happy with your 500+ vit build, but I'm pretty happy with my 500+ strength aps build.Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory0 -
Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »Lol, well for typical aps setup we fall like 1-3% behind a bm, but we can also be full r9 and have higher dps (and highest surviviabilit of any aps) than BMs. With the rebalancing of dagger damage, G16 and r9t3 sins are only about 10-15% ahead of us which isn't much (compare 200k aps barbs to 230k sins to 40k vit barbs). With an axe setup we have some of the highest spike dph available. Skills like Sunder often hit as hard for me as Armageddon since it auto crits and even with +6 Morai axes it's not uncommon for me to hit mobs in the 200-300k dph range. And then we have Arma, the hardest hitting skill in the game.
Sorry you're not happy with your 500+ vit build, but I'm pretty happy with my 500+ strength aps build.
I am extremely happy with my build, you know slamming 250k+ sunders and low 7 digits with Armageddon. I never said I was unhappy, I said if you are so concerned about damage then you should roll a different class and that as far as damage barbs have the lowest of physical attack of all other classes.It's a game and I'm proud to be a stupid fail demon barb!
My EPIC Fail Demon Barb has 40k/48k HP and my stat points are as follows:
VIT 552 STR 310 DEX 60! b:surrender0 -
Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »Mob a wave of delta? Not sure what that even means...
It takes about 14k hp to tank a Delta, 12k if charmed. Hp higher than that is just gravy.
At endgame the difference between 3 vit and 250 vit is like 12% hp. Considering Armageddon is hp, mana, and chi it would means the difference between a vit barbs arma and a pure barbs arma is less than 12%. Its also a 2 spark eating skill with a 30 second cooldown, meaning you use it once for every 5-8 other aoes you use. Meaning vit is nice for 1 skill, strength/refines is nice for the rest of them.
And strength goes further for survivability against phys mobs since its a better def multiplier.
Anyway, Hruns and I have debated statting and refining priority before. His point is its much easier to stat vit and refine 1 weapon than it is to stat strength and refine 6 pieces of armor for hp and survivability. My argument is you only have 1 piece of gear you can refine for more damage/aggro but you have 6 pieces of gear you can refine for more survivability. And endgame, unless you're pulling a cata, you'll want the stats in strength more than vit so that incurs an extra restatting cost you could have just put towards refines in the first place.
uhhhh
less
had an 11K hp G16 archer tank delta from eye
failed cuz we forgot you only have 10 min to dig beans between waves
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SteelStar - Heavens Tear wrote: »Can you mob a whole wave of delta? Didn't think so. How well does your class specific skill Armageddon work? Probably less than any wizard's aoe damage. If you want to be a monster at damage dealing, then roll a different class.
My crappy hh90 barb with 19k hp in tiger (sage) can pull any way of gv... If I decided to actually gear the barb to something better but cheap like nv-3, probably I wouldn't need to add more vit.
Imo the best build for barb is 200 dex, and the rest on strength so they don't miss so often and deal monster damage.0 -
Azura - Lost City wrote: »
Imo the best build for barb is 200 dex, and the rest on strength so they don't miss so often and deal monster damage.
+1 to this[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
_Mg_Zr - 102 Demon Kitty Kat
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and is widely regarded as a bad move."
- Douglas Adams0 -
160 base 200 with gear is enough for endgame fisting. Less if you're anal about min-max stats like I am. Also lets you stat a bit of vit if your gear isn't +10 vit stones or something
Edit: if you think you need 20-30k hp to tank delta then we really have issues, lol
**** like lunar, let r9rr casters pullChannels
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Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »160 base 200 with gear is enough for endgame fisting. Less if you're anal about min-max stats like I am.
I am anal about my stats as well but i like to have enough to equip all my gear with base stats.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
_Mg_Zr - 102 Demon Kitty Kat
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and is widely regarded as a bad move."
- Douglas Adams0 -
Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »160 base 200 with gear is enough for endgame fisting. Less if you're anal about min-max stats like I am. Also lets you stat a bit of vit if your gear isn't +10 vit stones or something
Edit: if you think you need 20-30k hp to tank delta then we really have issues, lol
**** like lunar, let r9rr casters pull
Show me a pure strength/dex barb that survives a full +12 r9.3 wizard.It's a game and I'm proud to be a stupid fail demon barb!
My EPIC Fail Demon Barb has 40k/48k HP and my stat points are as follows:
VIT 552 STR 310 DEX 60! b:surrender0
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