Demon Beast King Inspiration

YumaiRin - Raging Tide · June 2013

The buff as some of you may know gives 5% critical rate increase. I would like to know if this buff hinders your Power Dash or it helps with your DDing. Because when I use the buff prior to Demon Sunder or Demon Bestial Onslaught the crit rate isn't overwritten. So how does it affect it?

_Mg_Zr - Harshlands · June 2013

I think it hinders it but im not exactly sure as to much it effects there crit rate.
What i tend to do is ask the sins if they power dash first before i crit buff.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur · June 2013

I think it prevents PD from working due how crit buffs work in this game (Cant owerwrite critbuff). Its the same for demon sunder, titans buff messes it up, which is just messed up coding <.<.

skaitavia · June 2013

The barb's BKI crit boost will have priority over Powerdash, meaning if PD is used when the barb's buff is active (or when the barb uses the buff when the sin PD's), the 40% crit boost (50% for sage) won't show up.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · June 2013

To clarify, crit buffs don't overwrite. If Titans was on when you went to PD the Titans would stay on and the PD wouldn't take effect. If PD is active and the barb uses Titans the Titans won't take effect. Same with base buffs. If you get base crit buffs, don't bother using PD for an hour.

As a barb I used to warn sins to move away if they planned on PDing on the boss since I was going to demon Titans the rest of the squad (casters

it). Now I just do it. With the boost in refine rate that claws got and so much crit % on gear sins no longer out dd the rest of the squad as much as they used to so 5% for 5 DD's is better than 1 DD getting 40-50% more crit for only 8 seconds. Especially when the alternative to them PDing is them Subseaing

We've done the math (although not recently that I've seen with Dominance tomes, neck engravings, and G16 daggers). PDing means 1.2 seconds cast time, so a loss of 6 attacks at 5 aps, but then you gain 40-50% crit for 8 seconds. Since many sins now sit at higher than 40% base crit this is about 28-35% more dd during those 8 seconds (not 40-50% more dd) and only around 10-12% dd boost when you consider the 6 attacks lost. 11% boost for 1 player is much less than a 5% boost for 5 players and as I've stated the spark+IH+PD combo is more beneficial to the squad if the IH is used for spark+IH+Subsea.

opkossy · June 2013

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

We've done the math (although not recently that I've seen with Dominance tomes, neck engravings, and G16 daggers). PDing means 1.2 seconds cast time, so a loss of 6 attacks at 5 aps, but then you gain 40-50% crit for 8 seconds. Since many sins now sit at higher than 40% base crit this is about 28-35% more dd during those 8 seconds (not 40-50% more dd) and only around 10-12% dd boost when you consider the 6 attacks lost. 11% boost for 1 player is much less than a 5% boost for 5 players and as I've stated the spark+IH+PD combo is more beneficial to the squad if the IH is used for spark+IH+Subsea.

Does that factor in wolf emblem being active?

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · June 2013

OPKossy wrote: »

Does that factor in wolf emblem being active?

Can't even remember. Somewhere in the depths there's about a 5 page thread of math between Typh and I. Still, even if it wasn't figured in already WE would make it 13%(sage) and 14% (lvl 1/demon). Still small enough to ignore. compared to 4/5 DDs although we're getting closer if the other DDs suck.

Not saying PD isn't worth using I'm just pointing out that when you take 1.2 seconds (and put IH in cd and use 2 sparks) to cast it the dd boost really isn't what sins seem to think it is. It's boost damage, not dps. Which is great when combining with HF and AMP and Subsea and... but negligible by itself. And even in that situation a 30% Subsea amp for the squad is better than 20% EP and 13% WE and should take priority.

You also run into the situation where casting PD means zero paint heals for 1.2 seconds while a 5% crit boost is 1 minute of 5% more heals.

My point is even though its annoying to have your PD blocked and lose a personal dps boost it open up other things you can do, gives you more survivability over a minute, and is usually an overall squad dps gain.

Salari - Raging Tide · June 2013

I did a test earlier and using PD does not show a increase in rage damage in the char screen regardless if you use WE or not. So what it actually does or does not overwrite it hard to find i saw, but just by using it in COA I know it does increase the rage damage as there is a improvement in dph that I see in the logs over not using it which its in cd

issamali · June 2013

If I may comment though am not as experienced as you guys are but here is my 5 cent.

The 5% increase in crit for the whole squad, doesnt mean they will crit on every hit, and doesnt mean a 5% increase in heal for 1mint as it is not gauranteed to be a crit hit.

Talking about a mage class who has 5% crit chance or even 10%, then u make it 10 or 15%, thats 1 hit out of 10 criting theoretical speaking right?

But if u have 2 sins in squad, and your doing full WS or Lunar or an instance, and you use the barb skill... And assuming the barb will go tiger form try to hold agro, and you have cleric healing or in bb, so that leaves in a squad a magic class dd a bm and 1 more char. Do those 3 chars with that 5% chance deal more than a sin at 80-90% chance crit with wolf embelem and zer crit?! I really doubt it, considering the mage class will get 1 hit crit out of each hit or am I mistaken?

Please gentle replies would be great b:surrender

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · June 2013

issamali wrote: »

If I may comment though am not as experienced as you guys are but here is my 5 cent.

The 5% increase in crit for the whole squad, doesnt mean they will crit on every hit, and doesnt mean a 5% increase in heal for 1mint as it is not gauranteed to be a crit hit

Well, it's all theoretical math. Lucky for us, its a computer game and computer game dynamics are based on mathmatics.

True, a barb can give a caster 5% more crit and it might not increase what actually happens at all. Or a barb can 5% crit boost a caster and they end up critting way more. You never know. It comes down to the Law of Averages. Repeated enough times it will average out to 5% crit boost.

We also treat 1% crit as 1% dps because it doubles 1 normal attack. So you have 20% crit and attack 100 times. You can expect to do 80 normal attacks and 20 attacks for double damage. So 80 + (20 x 2)=120 attacks worth in 100 attacks, or 120%.

There is some slight skewing when we talk about crit rate. If I calc out a Sins dps to be 135k with their 35% crit rate (so 100k, and another 35k from crits attacks). Then that sin gains 5% crit, they haven't really gained 5% more damage. They've gone from 135k to 140k so they've gained 5k, 5k/135k is 3.7%. This is why you hear things like crit having a diminishing return to it.

So for your question, its all theoretical. The best answer is use your head. If your sin has amazing dps and the rest of the squad is kind of 'meh' then don't block him from using PD. If your sin isn't so impressive but you have a few other decent dd's then its probably a good idea to help all your DD's out and boost their crit. This is why I'm a big fan of checking out peoples gear as we run, so I can figure out my best strategies for teamwork. Familiarity also helps. Running with a sin a few times lets you know if they even use PD. Most Sin's don't use PD because they prefer to either Subsea or save Inner Harmony for if they get sealed/stunned and need emergency chi to get back to triple sparking. If you know this about your sin then Titans. If you know they prefer to use PD and use EP off their genie, don't Titans. If you're not sure, you can always ask.

Demon Beast King Inspiration

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