Aftercast Combos.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver
Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
edited May 2013 in Blademaster
Alrighty my BM brethren, I think it's about time we all sit down and share some trade secrets so we can all better ourselves and increase our potency in PvP. As some of you are well aware, and as some of you probably don't know, certain skills we have can be used in conjunction with each other to channel the second skill without as much of a cast time. I'd like for us to sit down and share combos, but before I do I'll explain how it's done in case you've never tried it.

Aftercasting is done by trying to use certain skills immediately after the command has gone through for the first skill in the combo. It makes the second skill channel a bit faster than it normally would allowing for more damage to be done. It does not work with all skills and the skills it does work with must be done in a certain order. Also, some skills that can be aftercasted with one skill can't be with another.

Tiger Leap>Roar of the Pride

Drake's Ray>Reckless Rush (great finisher)
>Ocean's Edge (good for slowing a target while damaging)
>Smack (great for working in a stunloop, regular aoes>Ray>Smack>Bash)
>Blade Hurl (good for damaging+disarming a long range target, same with the Smack combo but more effective in my opinion, longer inability for them to attack)

Fan of Flames>Aoelien Blade (damage+chance to stun on a target you don't want to lock)
>Drake Sweep (two powerful, fast AoEs)
>Fissure (two strong AoEs+slow)
>Highland Clave (two strong AoEs)
>+Everything mentioned above

Drake Sweep>Fan of Flames (two fast AoEs, the reverse doesn't work)
>Fan of Flames>Fissure/Highland Cleave


I never made use of leap aftercasting until today, I was always too laggy so I learned to play without. I'm looking forward to making use of it. Also, I had a few misconceptions about aftercasting having to do with the order of skills it could be done with. I've found that you can't really do much with Drake Sweep, but Fan of Flames is compatible with most of our attacks so it's quite potent.

Also, it seems aftercasting multiple skills in succession is possible, it just requires the right combo. As you can see I found one (Drake Sweep>Fan of Flames>Fissure/Highland cleave). It seems effective, and I think it'll leave room to be worked into a combo (adding >Drake's Ray>Smack/Drake's Bash aftercasting to it).

So, thoughts? Any combos you guys know about, passed around, or discovered? The ones I listed are probably known, but I never looked too much into it. I'll add any combos suggested to this post and give credit to those who share their tasty combos with us. It's difficult to remember these in the heat of battle, so it'd be nice if we could share and be able to practice them so they become second nature, at least to a degree.

If this takes off I might re-format this post and make it more.. new user friendly? Might even come color code it.
Post edited by Zanryu - Dreamweaver on

Comments

  • CapnK - Sanctuary
    CapnK - Sanctuary Posts: 1,166 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Fooled around with this a while back with Telarith. Aeolian Blade doesn't seem to combo with anything, either before or after. Heaven's Flame is a good first skill, other aoes will combo after it (and your char will move up in range of the second skill before using hf).
  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Fooled around with this a while back with Telarith. Aeolian Blade doesn't seem to combo with anything, either before or after. Heaven's Flame is a good first skill, other aoes will combo after it (and your char will move up in range of the second skill before using hf).

    Aoelien seemed to combo for me, maybe I misjudged it. I'm not in game to do anymore testing.
  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Ahh, the caster equivalent to channel canceling that strangely was never complained about....

    I use aftercasting alot on my cleric for IH+WS combos, or WS+SoR (only way I'll use SoR really) and there are a few wizard combos use. I also used to FR+Devour to get decently solid aggro while i triple sparked (was annoying I'd run up, Devour and triple spark then start apsing, but a caster would drop 3-4 attacks immediately while I was triple sparking and I'd have to chase a boss while my spark died because casters haven't learned to wait 2 fricking seconds).

    For my BM I don't do much aftercasting, although I follow HF with Highland and can get an extra aoe in that way.

    The issue is you hide the channeling and some of the cast in the animation of the first attack and we're already a fast skill and decently fast channeling class. Our lower skill damage shows that. Still, I'm gonna go work on some of the combos you suggested and see how they work out.

    Zanryu Note: The reason this hasn't been posted, btw, is it is a trade secret. Much like CCing was back in the day only a few people knew about it and only a few people used it even though the forum Mods said it was acceptable. We haven't brought this up because a. we educate other classes more than our own and may have tougher opponents and b. pointing out glitches might mean in 3 years PWI fixes them and we lose aftercasting.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Nobody complains about AC because casters are dumb as bricks and its useful as hell but incredibly difficult to use lol.

    I use it in pretty much every skill sequence involving tiger maw or drakes ray b:surrender

    Ae blade can actually be aftercasted however the timing window is like 3 frames long lol
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Rubybeard - Archosaur
    Rubybeard - Archosaur Posts: 134 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    wait a sec edited i didnt read the title *flee*
  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Ahh, the caster equivalent to channel canceling that strangely was never complained about....

    I use aftercasting alot on my cleric for IH+WS combos, or WS+SoR (only way I'll use SoR really) and there are a few wizard combos use. I also used to FR+Devour to get decently solid aggro while i triple sparked (was annoying I'd run up, Devour and triple spark then start apsing, but a caster would drop 3-4 attacks immediately while I was triple sparking and I'd have to chase a boss while my spark died because casters haven't learned to wait 2 fricking seconds).

    For my BM I don't do much aftercasting, although I follow HF with Highland and can get an extra aoe in that way.

    The issue is you hide the channeling and some of the cast in the animation of the first attack and we're already a fast skill and decently fast channeling class. Our lower skill damage shows that. Still, I'm gonna go work on some of the combos you suggested and see how they work out.

    Zanryu Note: The reason this hasn't been posted, btw, is it is a trade secret. Much like CCing was back in the day only a few people knew about it and only a few people used it even though the forum Mods said it was acceptable. We haven't brought this up because a. we educate other classes more than our own and may have tougher opponents and b. pointing out glitches might mean in 3 years PWI fixes them and we lose aftercasting.

    Nobody else has lost their aftercasting after bringing it up, and I think our entire class could use a bit of toughening up. I never did use too many in actual PvP since I'm mostly caught up in ganks and can't focus on trying them out, but I'm getting more and more into it now. Drake's Ray>Bash/Reckless/Smack has been second nature to me for a while now, as has Fan of Flames>Roar of the Pride after Bash is about to end, just gotta keep practicing.
  • NigeIus - Dreamweaver
    NigeIus - Dreamweaver Posts: 399 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    roar>ocean>tiger maw/draw blood>drake ray then it could be smack or aeolian blade

    that was for 1 vs1, for more than 1:


    drake sweep>fan of flames>higland cleave

    or if u went hf first it can be turned into:

    hf>fissure>higland cleave>drake sweep
  • Superfeng - Lost City
    Superfeng - Lost City Posts: 125 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I never noticed aftercasting!! b:shocked

    Is there anything else I should be aware of?
    Superfeng - Level 101 Lost City Blademaster, retired.
  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I never noticed aftercasting!! b:shocked

    Is there anything else I should be aware of?

    Well, turns out that you can aftercast with Drake Sweep. Though I get the feeling you meant something else b:chuckle
  • Superfeng - Lost City
    Superfeng - Lost City Posts: 125 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Well, turns out that you can aftercast with Drake Sweep. Though I get the feeling you meant something else b:chuckle

    b:beatup
    Superfeng - Level 101 Lost City Blademaster, retired.
  • Superfeng - Lost City
    Superfeng - Lost City Posts: 125 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    So how much time do you exactly save by doing one of these combos?
    Let's say leap and roar. 1-2 seconds?
    Superfeng - Level 101 Lost City Blademaster, retired.
  • HrunsPanda - Archosaur
    HrunsPanda - Archosaur Posts: 1,136 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Aftercasting is done by trying to use certain skills immediately after the command has gone through for the first skill in the combo.

    and explain me a bit more the basics. Are we talking about some kind of bug/glitch to reduce/eliminate channeling on the second skill you cast ?
    What do you mean by "the command has gone trough" ?
    When you say it does not work with every skill, i assume that has something to do with channeling vs casting times ? I mean bugs/glitches do not usually work with one skill and not another because its name starts with an A and not a B. there must be some system to it ?
    explain for those who have no idea what you are talking about please :)
  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    and explain me a bit more the basics. Are we talking about some kind of bug/glitch to reduce/eliminate channeling on the second skill you cast ?
    What do you mean by "the command has gone trough" ?
    When you say it does not work with every skill, i assume that has something to do with channeling vs casting times ? I mean bugs/glitches do not usually work with one skill and not another because its name starts with an A and not a B. there must be some system to it ?
    explain for those who have no idea what you are talking about please :)

    I'm unsure if it's a bug, most likely it is. Archers and Wizards can do it with certain skills, and apparently so can Clerics. I'm probably not the best person to explain exactly how or why it works, but in my experience it works like this:

    Use skill 1
    As skill 1 begins channeling use skill 2
    (if using a third)As skill 2 begins channeling use skill 3

    Basically, you press the first skill in the chain followed by holding down/spam clicking the next skill you want immediately after. The result is that the second skill will be used with seemingly reduced channeling and without having to wait through the cast time.*

    It is necessary to spam click/hold down the key to ensure the skills go off properly, or you run the risk of auto attacking rather than using another skill. That's about as simple as an explanation as I can give, keep in mind that it will only work with a certain order of certain skills. I do not know why the skills in question behave like this, nor is the reason they behave like this what this thread is about. It is simply a compilation of the skills, how they can be combo'd to achieve the desired effect, and a basic tutorial on how to aftercast.


    *Cast time - The period of time after using a skill that you must wait before being able to use another skill.
  • Jaabg - Sanctuary
    Jaabg - Sanctuary Posts: 2,256 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Each skill has two components, channel+cast.

    This "removes" one aspect of that for the 2nd skill (and others in the chain). I tried it, my issue with this is ping+fps. My pc doesn't loves me enough to let me do it. I don't pvp outside of nw, tw. I have massive lag there, so doing the above won't work for me.

    In pve often times people unload at once, i just manage to hf and maybe an aoe and mobs are dead. Few times that i do not lag on aoes, pulls, i do this. This how ever does not work as well with a macro.

    I use macros in delta/trials, save my mouse buttons.

    What kind of ping, fps do you need to have to begin testing/using this?

    To me this is not a bug/glitch, it's just like aps, the game was designed this way, just like the goon glitch, existing ever since fcc got changed over i presume.
  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    explain me a bit more the basics. Are we talking about some kind of bug/glitch to reduce/eliminate channeling on the second skill you cast ?

    I used to do it a fair amount but as I've played more my BM recently and rarely use aftercast on my bm (and usually by accident if I do) I'm a little rusty on the concepts.

    How to explain it? Have you ever hit a button and then immediately hit a second hotkey and your character starts the first skill then instead stops and does the second skill? That's a mistimed aftercast.

    A proper timed AC you actually start both skills at the same time, the first one goes through and then only the casting of the second one goes through with no time spent casting. Less noticable for BMs, hugely noticable for cleric's and wizards. There have been double-cast videos of veno pet heals since back in the days when venos ruled TT, and its the easiest to do because of the longer channel time and equal cast and cd times. You sit there and pound "F1" to heal your pet and you'll hit both the cast of one skill and the start of another.

    So you can do Drake Sweep-> HF to get both of them in 1.8 seconds rather than 3.1sec. 1.2 seconds of the HF cast is hidden inside, or absorbed into, the DS channel and cast.

    It won't work if the channeling doesn't fit in the channel+cast of the previous skill though.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • Superfeng - Lost City
    Superfeng - Lost City Posts: 125 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I never noticed aftercasting!! b:shocked

    Is there anything else I should be aware of?

    What hits hard besides a mire/GS + BT combo?
    I haven't found anything...
    Superfeng - Level 101 Lost City Blademaster, retired.
  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Tried to make a video of a few AC combos but being out of practice and having the lag from my recording program I had horridable videos. Zan, you up for the challenge?
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • HrunsPanda - Archosaur
    HrunsPanda - Archosaur Posts: 1,136 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    If I can find me a willing target to tank hits'

    Twilight emperor wont complain probably :)

    Or you could take silverfrost if you want someone more passive.

    Or for if you really dont like mobs ... Are you really gonna tell us you are the only one here who does not have a second account to dual client ? :p
  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    If I can find me a willing target to tank hits I don't see why not. I 1v1'd PREIST today and tried to work in combos, it went pretty well when I was actually able to hit haha. Spent a lot of time leaping. It's getting more and more second nature, I've also incorporated it into my grinding.

    Lemme get on that vid makin'

    Woops. Forgot I was on my BM.

    Twilight emperor wont complain probably :)

    Or you could take silverfrost if you want someone more passive.

    Or for if you really dont like mobs ... Are you really gonna tell us you are the only one here who does not have a second account to dual client ? :p

    I do, but they're wiksauce. Oh well, guess I'll get a weak pair of axes b:chuckle Actually, that's a great idea! I can dust off an old classic!
  • HrunsPanda - Archosaur
    HrunsPanda - Archosaur Posts: 1,136 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I can dust off an old classic!

    you gonna use handaxes of demonic roar ? I love them so much, i was so proud of them when i was a baby panda b:dirty
  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    you gonna use handaxes of demonic roar ? I love them so much, i was so proud of them when i was a baby panda b:dirty

    You'll seeeeee
  • TheDan - Sanctuary
    TheDan - Sanctuary Posts: 3,495 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Meh, I think they're more of an annoyance than helpful, my drake bash started becoming a few milliseconds too early whenever my ping was in the 100-200s, but was on time when it was in the 300s+ whenever I used drake ray in a stun-lock combo.

    The only thing I use regularly is the drake ray and reckless rush combo together because they hit at the same time when you cast them in that order so you can kill someone before their charm even procs on your screen.
    BM PvP Guide: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1320761

    YouTube channels: youtube.com/TheDan912 and youtube.com/TheDanPWI
  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I'll be updating this thread soon-ish, been kind of distracted from forum posting.
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    and explain me a bit more the basics. Are we talking about some kind of bug/glitch to reduce/eliminate channeling on the second skill you cast ?
    What do you mean by "the command has gone trough" ?
    When you say it does not work with every skill, i assume that has something to do with channeling vs casting times ? I mean bugs/glitches do not usually work with one skill and not another because its name starts with an A and not a B. there must be some system to it ?
    explain for those who have no idea what you are talking about please :)

    Aftercasting is an exploit based on server lag.

    You hit skill A, sever confirms skill A and sends it back. You hit skill B before skill A gets back to you from the server and both of them channel at once giving you a stupid fast 1-2 punch.

    Based on your ping and FPS the timing changes however the idea is to hit skill B before the channel/cast bar of skill A shows up on screen without changing skills.

    It works best with short cast time short>mid channeling skills though you can use a long cast skill 2nd (but never 1st) because the server checks and drops the skill as canceled if you spend long enough in a casting animation for it to ping off the main server a second time.

    So a short chan short cast skill can be used to set up a CC on any other skill for small gains
    A mid chan short cast skill can be used on anything but a very fast chan/cast skills for high gain
    A long chan short cast skill can erratically be used for huge gains on almost anything.

    Long cast skills are useless for ACing. (thus why AE blade is terribad)

    If you dont build your skill combo's around CC it will mess them up, and your skill order becomes predictable as hell so aside from tiger maw+ray 1-2 hits its pretty mediocre in a long term stunlock due to the change of losing or gaining a lot of time. Plus lag etc will **** with you unless this is your normal way of using skills.

    You can get 8-9 hits in during a demon DB with CC if you dont care about locking anymore though, and you can adjust DB/RoTP timing by about half a second either way to make near seamless locks regardless of the skills you have on CD and without sacing damage if you have an accurate internal clock.

    So ya, its not voodoo magic but another old trick that takes a stupid amount of practice to use fluidly.
    Gifs are hard to make work here