Dual classes fleshed out somewhat
sephy287
Posts: 0 Arc User
I had an idea of a way to flesh out dual classes to work in PW without being too OP or too much a pain (possibly) for the team at PW, plus also breath a little life into an old instance that has all but been forgotten. Its gonna be a long post but just stick with me, I tried to think it all through before I posted, that doesn't mean I didn't overlook something though.
1. requirements:
-character must be lv 100 with sage/demon cultivation already picked out and taken
-player is then given a quest to kill Inferno Sovereign, Noxious Sovereign, Vampiric Sovereign, (any two of demonic dictator, tyrant, or sovereign), (any two of ashura dictator, tyrant or sovereign),(any two of Goldwing Phoenix, Arbiter of Flame, or Nether Queen), and the Ancient Ancestor ending in a total of 10 different bosses killed (threw that in for story, 10 classes = 10 bosses) and meaning that you will have to clear nirvana at least 2 times to get the quest done. (feel free to make quest chain loner but I think this is sufficient and would bring back Nirvana at least)
-player may then choose to pick one of any of the 10 classes as their secondary (yes you can pick the same class you are again, will explain later)
-give confirmation stating something on the lines of you can not choose again so make a wise choice (throw in a boutique item for later maybe for changing it, however if it is not allowed to be changed if someone wants to change it they have to make a new character thereby potentially making you guys more money through them playing a whole new character or so the idea would be)
2. restrictions/bonuses:
-lv 79 and 100 specific skills learned though either the books from old heavens tear or from morai, should remain class specific so as to add a little more incentive to play a certain class, and so as not to cheapen the work put into the newer morai stuff
-any class chosen as a secondary class can only have its skills raised to lv8 (or 80% rounded down of max skill lv so for instance a skill normally maxing at 3 would max at 2.4 rounded down to 2) This allows for the original class to not be overshadowed by a multiclass variant of it. This is just a suggestion, letting them go to lv 10 might not be too bad/be easier to code or it may need to be lower to better balance, so mind you it may need tweeked, but I most certainly do not think a secondary class should be allowed to also have sage/demon level skills of its class that would just be way too much.
-perhaps to add more value to Nirvana add in new drops that are used to make books for the secondary class skills to unlock lv 1 and then once lv 1 is unlocked learn it up to max same way you would any skill. But don't make it so the books require a crazy amount of the drops maybe like 1-25 depending on the value of the skill like the beginner class skills like venomous scarab for instance whould not need much at all like 1 of these mats to make the book, where as ironwood scarab would cost more mats to make, and so on. This would make it so you have to work at it if you really want to dual class and it wont be so easy, also from PW's perspective it means more nirvana runs, and nirvana sells charms.
-all secondary class skills should be worth more than their normal counterparts in coin/spirit to level maybe 2X or 3X the original value to go from lv 1 to 2 of X skill etc., this is again so as not to cheapen the original class and it honestly would make sense if you are not naturaly that class it would cost more time/investment for you to learn it
-any player choosing to dual class in the same class they are simply forgoes the dual classes to become a "Master INSERT CLASS HERE" who would then get an overall 10% boost to all class skills, 10 attack and defense levels, and a passive skill that boosts health and mana Max maybe as high as 25%, and maybe a few new skills specific to master class variants perhaps, maybe like 3-7.
-perhaps give each combo of classes 1 special skill only for that combination, maybe even name the combinations if you feel so inclined to do so, but it'd be fine to leave it unnamed so players can make up names for them too like arcane sneakster, or paladin, or Arcane Magister or whatever you want to call yourself.
-for venos dual classing into barb or barbs dual classing into venos, foxform and tigerform would have to either gain each others abilities when dual classed and continue to a higher skill level like 5 so you can have the equivalent 3 levels of foxform and 2 of tiger or vice versa depending on which is the original class, or a new animal could be added as a hybrid maybe like a panther (sort of like a leaner tiger to show its a mix of the forms could also be either gender that way) that would either replace the old one when learned or be another skill altogether so they can still turn into the older one if they want, or even just leave the second transformation out for simplicity and just call it a benefit of being one or the other
-An issue to fix is if someone wishes to dual class a melee class with a mage class, the melee weapons are not made to cast spells as they do not have magic damage so to fix this any melee class dual classing into a mage or mage class dual classing into a melee class should get a free passive skill (name could be enchanted weaponry) giving you a magic attack stat that equals 1/2 of your physical weapon's physical attack stat as magic attack and then does all the calculations as normal to get damage output such as mag stat *( whatever it is that the formula is for spell damage) This should also make all physical weapons classified as a magic weapon for purposes of casting if that is necessary in the code for the game as well as classify the magic weapons as whatever is needed to use a given melee class skill. Having only 1/3-1/2 of a physical weapons attack made into magic attack should make sure something silly like a barbarian having more magic attack than a wizard while using an axe should and would never happen also it would allow any mage classes going into physical classes would still be able to use their skills with melee weapons as well, while not allowing them to completely dump magic weapons form their inventory as they would always remain better for magic. To balance this skill so a melee class dual classing into another melee class doesn't feel left out, or a mage into a mage, give them a physical/magical synergy bonus skill that gives them a 5 attack level (or 5% damage basically) as well as a small boost to either health or mana dependent on class type.
-any restrictions on weapons such as daggers only being useable by assassins should be removed by classifying the character who dual classes into it as that class so the system will then allow them to use the weapon if they have the appropriate stats for it.
-this of course would bring up very interesting stat breakdowns and possible issues of not having enough to go around so this should be fixed not by adding more because that would make things a little crazy perhaps, but by skills that can be trained once dual classing that will give you possibly say for mages 75% of your magic stat will be counted as strength and dexterity, but only for use of equipping gear, and for melee characters the 75% of your Strength stat or Dexterity stat whichever is higher will be counted towards Magic and whichever of the two is the lowest. This might be simpler to split into class by class specific exceptions, but that would be a general way to fix it using only 2 different skills, the bonus/downside depending on how you look at it being that if done with the 2 skill mentioned it would allow Assassins to not need strength at all at lv 100 basically or mages to need anything for that matter other than magic, which given how small an investment they tend to need toward those skills that may not be a big deal, as it would free up some more stat points for vitality.
-adding the ability to dual class like this would possibly also bring about a need/call for more magic weapons that would also count towards melee skills that would be more balanced in terms of attack dmg and magic attack damage for instance a lv 100 req. magic sword that has 635-895 (random numbers chosen as example) in both physical attack and magic attack, but never have one that would be equal or even close to an existing weapon that is made for purely physical or magical means of the same level (if that makes sense to you) In my opinion a weapon like this with req. of lv100 should ideally not have an attack that exceeds a lv 80 phys or magical weapon but perhaps equal to it in its respective attack power, that way it would represent the willingness to sacrifice some power to gain more power in the other side, but not being to the point that it would outclass an existing weapon used for only one or the other skill. This could also be used as an option to negate the need for a skill to fix physical/magical weapons as mentioned in the point above so that they would be able to use the opposite, in fact this option could completely remove the need for the above mentioned option, but I will leave it as well as an idea for other options should anyone at PW decide they like this)
-any class restrictions on skills such as blood paint not being able to be used on a mage would need to be either removed ( I don't know why it got removed anyway it only works on physical damage, makes no sense why it mattered to make it not work on mages) or fixed so it would work on classes multiclassing into assassin or another melee class.
-if implemented one or a few free advanced all stat resets would be nice, just saying
-would be nice to add more character slots on each account so you can try out more combinations maybe 2X or 3X what it is now (this would be nice anyway now with only the 10 classes to at least have enough to make one of every class maybe a couple extra for experiments)
3. reasons this would be a good idea
-It would breath some more life into the game, and give people a reason to come back/ experiment some more
-It would take the existing 10 classes and make a possible of 55 (I think) combinations and would give a whole new element to pvp, without the need to create so many new classes from scratch
-relatively easy way to make a huge update of content
-would bring back nirvana as a popular instance and not let it gather more cobwebs
-would technically allow for male venomancers at lv 100 so those people would be happy too albeit they would not be demon/cat/fox/whatever guys which to me sounds like a reasonable compromise
-would be nice surprise for your anniversary coming up, eh PW?
Feel free to comment on this and add to guys, If anyone needs clarification or comes up with a point I have left out that would cause something not to work like the magic weapons not being physical thing Ill try to remember to check back in too and think up some answers or clarifications for you.
1. requirements:
-character must be lv 100 with sage/demon cultivation already picked out and taken
-player is then given a quest to kill Inferno Sovereign, Noxious Sovereign, Vampiric Sovereign, (any two of demonic dictator, tyrant, or sovereign), (any two of ashura dictator, tyrant or sovereign),(any two of Goldwing Phoenix, Arbiter of Flame, or Nether Queen), and the Ancient Ancestor ending in a total of 10 different bosses killed (threw that in for story, 10 classes = 10 bosses) and meaning that you will have to clear nirvana at least 2 times to get the quest done. (feel free to make quest chain loner but I think this is sufficient and would bring back Nirvana at least)
-player may then choose to pick one of any of the 10 classes as their secondary (yes you can pick the same class you are again, will explain later)
-give confirmation stating something on the lines of you can not choose again so make a wise choice (throw in a boutique item for later maybe for changing it, however if it is not allowed to be changed if someone wants to change it they have to make a new character thereby potentially making you guys more money through them playing a whole new character or so the idea would be)
2. restrictions/bonuses:
-lv 79 and 100 specific skills learned though either the books from old heavens tear or from morai, should remain class specific so as to add a little more incentive to play a certain class, and so as not to cheapen the work put into the newer morai stuff
-any class chosen as a secondary class can only have its skills raised to lv8 (or 80% rounded down of max skill lv so for instance a skill normally maxing at 3 would max at 2.4 rounded down to 2) This allows for the original class to not be overshadowed by a multiclass variant of it. This is just a suggestion, letting them go to lv 10 might not be too bad/be easier to code or it may need to be lower to better balance, so mind you it may need tweeked, but I most certainly do not think a secondary class should be allowed to also have sage/demon level skills of its class that would just be way too much.
-perhaps to add more value to Nirvana add in new drops that are used to make books for the secondary class skills to unlock lv 1 and then once lv 1 is unlocked learn it up to max same way you would any skill. But don't make it so the books require a crazy amount of the drops maybe like 1-25 depending on the value of the skill like the beginner class skills like venomous scarab for instance whould not need much at all like 1 of these mats to make the book, where as ironwood scarab would cost more mats to make, and so on. This would make it so you have to work at it if you really want to dual class and it wont be so easy, also from PW's perspective it means more nirvana runs, and nirvana sells charms.
-all secondary class skills should be worth more than their normal counterparts in coin/spirit to level maybe 2X or 3X the original value to go from lv 1 to 2 of X skill etc., this is again so as not to cheapen the original class and it honestly would make sense if you are not naturaly that class it would cost more time/investment for you to learn it
-any player choosing to dual class in the same class they are simply forgoes the dual classes to become a "Master INSERT CLASS HERE" who would then get an overall 10% boost to all class skills, 10 attack and defense levels, and a passive skill that boosts health and mana Max maybe as high as 25%, and maybe a few new skills specific to master class variants perhaps, maybe like 3-7.
-perhaps give each combo of classes 1 special skill only for that combination, maybe even name the combinations if you feel so inclined to do so, but it'd be fine to leave it unnamed so players can make up names for them too like arcane sneakster, or paladin, or Arcane Magister or whatever you want to call yourself.
-for venos dual classing into barb or barbs dual classing into venos, foxform and tigerform would have to either gain each others abilities when dual classed and continue to a higher skill level like 5 so you can have the equivalent 3 levels of foxform and 2 of tiger or vice versa depending on which is the original class, or a new animal could be added as a hybrid maybe like a panther (sort of like a leaner tiger to show its a mix of the forms could also be either gender that way) that would either replace the old one when learned or be another skill altogether so they can still turn into the older one if they want, or even just leave the second transformation out for simplicity and just call it a benefit of being one or the other
-An issue to fix is if someone wishes to dual class a melee class with a mage class, the melee weapons are not made to cast spells as they do not have magic damage so to fix this any melee class dual classing into a mage or mage class dual classing into a melee class should get a free passive skill (name could be enchanted weaponry) giving you a magic attack stat that equals 1/2 of your physical weapon's physical attack stat as magic attack and then does all the calculations as normal to get damage output such as mag stat *( whatever it is that the formula is for spell damage) This should also make all physical weapons classified as a magic weapon for purposes of casting if that is necessary in the code for the game as well as classify the magic weapons as whatever is needed to use a given melee class skill. Having only 1/3-1/2 of a physical weapons attack made into magic attack should make sure something silly like a barbarian having more magic attack than a wizard while using an axe should and would never happen also it would allow any mage classes going into physical classes would still be able to use their skills with melee weapons as well, while not allowing them to completely dump magic weapons form their inventory as they would always remain better for magic. To balance this skill so a melee class dual classing into another melee class doesn't feel left out, or a mage into a mage, give them a physical/magical synergy bonus skill that gives them a 5 attack level (or 5% damage basically) as well as a small boost to either health or mana dependent on class type.
-any restrictions on weapons such as daggers only being useable by assassins should be removed by classifying the character who dual classes into it as that class so the system will then allow them to use the weapon if they have the appropriate stats for it.
-this of course would bring up very interesting stat breakdowns and possible issues of not having enough to go around so this should be fixed not by adding more because that would make things a little crazy perhaps, but by skills that can be trained once dual classing that will give you possibly say for mages 75% of your magic stat will be counted as strength and dexterity, but only for use of equipping gear, and for melee characters the 75% of your Strength stat or Dexterity stat whichever is higher will be counted towards Magic and whichever of the two is the lowest. This might be simpler to split into class by class specific exceptions, but that would be a general way to fix it using only 2 different skills, the bonus/downside depending on how you look at it being that if done with the 2 skill mentioned it would allow Assassins to not need strength at all at lv 100 basically or mages to need anything for that matter other than magic, which given how small an investment they tend to need toward those skills that may not be a big deal, as it would free up some more stat points for vitality.
-adding the ability to dual class like this would possibly also bring about a need/call for more magic weapons that would also count towards melee skills that would be more balanced in terms of attack dmg and magic attack damage for instance a lv 100 req. magic sword that has 635-895 (random numbers chosen as example) in both physical attack and magic attack, but never have one that would be equal or even close to an existing weapon that is made for purely physical or magical means of the same level (if that makes sense to you) In my opinion a weapon like this with req. of lv100 should ideally not have an attack that exceeds a lv 80 phys or magical weapon but perhaps equal to it in its respective attack power, that way it would represent the willingness to sacrifice some power to gain more power in the other side, but not being to the point that it would outclass an existing weapon used for only one or the other skill. This could also be used as an option to negate the need for a skill to fix physical/magical weapons as mentioned in the point above so that they would be able to use the opposite, in fact this option could completely remove the need for the above mentioned option, but I will leave it as well as an idea for other options should anyone at PW decide they like this)
-any class restrictions on skills such as blood paint not being able to be used on a mage would need to be either removed ( I don't know why it got removed anyway it only works on physical damage, makes no sense why it mattered to make it not work on mages) or fixed so it would work on classes multiclassing into assassin or another melee class.
-if implemented one or a few free advanced all stat resets would be nice, just saying
-would be nice to add more character slots on each account so you can try out more combinations maybe 2X or 3X what it is now (this would be nice anyway now with only the 10 classes to at least have enough to make one of every class maybe a couple extra for experiments)
3. reasons this would be a good idea
-It would breath some more life into the game, and give people a reason to come back/ experiment some more
-It would take the existing 10 classes and make a possible of 55 (I think) combinations and would give a whole new element to pvp, without the need to create so many new classes from scratch
-relatively easy way to make a huge update of content
-would bring back nirvana as a popular instance and not let it gather more cobwebs
-would technically allow for male venomancers at lv 100 so those people would be happy too albeit they would not be demon/cat/fox/whatever guys which to me sounds like a reasonable compromise
-would be nice surprise for your anniversary coming up, eh PW?
Feel free to comment on this and add to guys, If anyone needs clarification or comes up with a point I have left out that would cause something not to work like the magic weapons not being physical thing Ill try to remember to check back in too and think up some answers or clarifications for you.
Post edited by sephy287 on
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Comments
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heh i was just watching something about quantum mechanics and it made sense.
Then i started reading your post and after a while i was wondering what i was actually reading about and i gave up b:surrender0 -
Archer dual sin will be wonderful
Dex based APS on an archer, with BP availableChannels
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I started reading it.. maybe got a quarter of the way through... I'm sorry but no. xD
Classes have enough skills as it is, without letting them have another classes skills. it is just going to be a recipe for absolute disaster.
Imagine a seek/barb, they would never die
Or for that matter a wiz/veno, a wiz that can PURGE and AMP you, horrible idea. x.x'[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Queen of Silly, circa 2014, as conferred by the late great Proski Wallace.0 -
Wizzie BM
tactical reversion->undine->Ice Prison-> Roar of the Pride->HF->ztp->spark->BT
With GoF axes
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I'm down. I wanna be a Bladezard. I'll run around with Purify Spell and heavy armor with a **** ton of leaps and amps to abuse my newfound world ending power.0
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Barbcleric or Clericseeker
With Purify
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archseek
metal zerkcrit bow lolwatChannels
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Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »archseek
metal zerkcrit bow lolwat
I'm tellin' ya man. Seekomancers. lolwutpurgemetalzerkcritcombo0 -
As others have said, this may become too overpowered... Something more specific... Wont pvp be ruined by permanent stunlock combos? ... b:surrender0
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I think we should only look at the positive things of suggestions like these and not try to find reasons why it wont work.
Its like when people suggest that the government should stop raising taxes. And they should make schools and medical care totally free and give everyone a car when they turn 18. And a new one every 5 years from then. And solve poverty in africa of course because we dont want to be selfish.
Dreaming is fun. No point in ruining peoples fantasies when its about things that wont ever happen anyway Or am i ruining someones fantasy now ?b:chuckle0 -
Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »I'm tellin' ya man. Seekomancers. lolwutpurgemetalzerkcritcombo
sin-o'-mancer
purge from stealthChannels
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Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »sin-o'-mancer
purge from stealth
Archmancers. On demand purge with Purify Spell. Anti stunnin' purgin' all up in dis mess from stealth son.0
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