Since obviously Stupitdity and Greed has taken over this game let's..

Where have you been?

This started when the packs came out and hasn't changed yet.

Learn to adapt or GTFO.

I really don't share your sentiment. When I'm on-line, I LIKE to help other people without getting paid. It's called being a good friend. So you only see greed and stupidity? Not everyone is like that. Some people out there still give a damn about others, it just saddens me that you probably used to give a damn, but you ran into some crappy players and they completely ruined everything for you. For that, I am angry. At the same time, though, you've allowed yourself to stoop down to their level...I don't know how to tell you this, man, but everyone on this game is different: They have different beliefs, different values, different morals. I could turn this into an essay, but I won't because it's not needed.

If you play on Sanctuary and you see a bored cat cleric buffing people at West Gate as they run by, chances are it was me. I see people for what they truly are: human. So, come over to Sanctuary if you aren't already and I'll help you level for free. I'm not going to Frost you, I will help you with your BH's, FB's, ABC's and OMG's WTF's. As odd as this sound, I think it is my duty as cleric to shield you from enemy fire, that's what I believe. This is a game, I get it, but you're playing with real people. As a healer I'm oblidged to just that, as a person, I feel morally obligated to help protect and guard people. I'm a freak, everyone knows it.

dancingmoogle wrote: »

now now don't get me wrong I thought of making a Lunar team and since it's 2x thought ppl would be more inclined as to pay 500k and split the drops on random that didn't happen so I decided okay fine I'll pay the dam full 3mil and WCed got ppl only needing a tank got a pm from a barb saying pay me and I'll come tank it for you.

So thats what tripped me on top of paying the full Lunar free by myself I'm also being asked to pay a tank and it's not like I wanted all the EoDs for myself I thought of making it a fun run so everyone benefited it being 2x and all.

A selfless act rarely goes unpunished. Even with best of intentions, people are, at the core, materialistic. If I heard that, I would have paid money and run the instance because I feel that that's the right thing to do.

let me get this straight. you form a squad, pay 3m and get a 4m drop. you then QQ that greedy people ask for a fee to tank it. oh the irony...burns...

personally, I consider "free" lunars totaly unfair. however I do them since the alternative is either getting myself scammed or join a lottery. In this cases I usually end up with a not so good squad which takes longer, spend a couple of teles to find a tank and usually end up pulling myself in white voodoo and burn a bit of charm. still it's fun and I make a profit; but I'd gladly share it with a nice kitty that would pull most of the valleys.

all in all... just like it's your right to run squads that benefit you, it's the puller's right to ask for a fee. don't want it, don't invite him.

Murcas - Sanctuary wrote: »

What, have an actual HELPFUL attitude? Well excuse me for breathin', but I'm not going to simply change the way I think just because people think that helpfulness is a BAD thing.

you call it helpful I call it pretensious

Its a lot easier to deal with people who just want a profit.

As a small example tt opening

"do gooder" "no wait let me give you 50k back!" spend a minute of my time letting them trade me or like 10 listening to QQ

"greedy person" drop>pick up>kick

Same with "do gooders" free wining instances

They also tend to flat out ragequit very easily unless you coddle them in runs, and are just generaly unhelpful when you actually want them to be but will call in favors 5 or 6 times over.

No thanks I'll stay with the greedy buggers

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

you call it helpful I call it pretensious

Its a lot easier to deal with people who just want a profit.

As a small example tt opening

"do gooder" "no wait let me give you 50k back!" spend a minute of my time letting them trade me or like 10 listening to QQ

"greedy person" drop>pick up>kick

Same with "do gooders" free wining instances

They also tend to flat out ragequit very easily unless you coddle them in runs, and are just generaly unhelpful when you actually want them to be but will call in favors 5 or 6 times over.

No thanks I'll stay with the greedy buggers

That's fine with me. Sorry that I am perceived as pretensious. Also, coddling? I don't get coddled, I don't know about anybody else. The reason I'm 101 is because I didn't want to bother people, asking for help. I had people like you in my squad, before, and I did what I was supposed to do: Respect their opinion and respect the person. That's not just in game, that's life. I don't suppose you've ever heard of "Southern Hospitatlity"? That's the code I go by. I don't change codes just because I'm behind a computer...

And I noticed you quote Hemmingway. Sorry, I hate to break up this fight, but that's pretty damn cool...

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm more southern hostility with a dose of common courtesy because yes everyone deserves respect till they prove that they dont, for most folks that takes about 5 seconds. b:chuckle

Ha ha! You and my husband would get along quite well! I love a good verbal sparring. I am female before your gaydar goes off. XD

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

let me get this straight. you form a squad, pay 3m and get a 4m drop. you then QQ that greedy people ask for a fee to tank it. oh the irony...burns...

Where in your fantasyland are EoDs a 4mil drop?

The only reason why EoDs are 4mil is because the people selling them charge that much for it. You pay 3mil for a full Lunar run, you get the EoD, you don't automatically get 4mil for it.

NPC price is 100k. That's the lowest amount you'd get for an EoD. The lowest amount anyone would charge for an EoD, on the other hand, is 3mil, because that's how much it costs to open each Lunar run. If the fee for Lunar went down, the price of EoDs would go down with it.

This is the same reason why I have to facepalm whenever some moron tries to argue that during 2x the 2nd EoD should go to the squad rather than the fee-payer. Seriously, EoDs are not freaking automatically 3mil each. The moment the 2x switch is flipped, the price of EoDs are halved.

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

Same with "do gooders" free wining instances

So you'd rather spend ten minutes in a normally fast instance like BH79, waiting for everyone to get inside and trade the person with wine just to get started? I free wine these instances because I have no patience for slow people. I don't want to stand there trading every individual, I want to wine it and get clearing and the slow people can make their way in while I do so. And I leave drops as free because I really don't need 2x junk cluttering my inventory and being stuck with molds I only NPC anyway. That makes me a "do gooder?" I do it because it benefits me.

Lunar is a slightly different scenario, due to the end reward. However, most people actually prefer someone else to pay the opening fee and they just run along for the BH/badges. When you try making a split-fee squad now it is almost impossible to fill. Why? Because 9/10 people don't want to bother with the hassle of paying and then splitting the end reward. They are happy to get their badges and BH done, and there are so many free squads out there they will just take those instead. For people that don't like it, they are perfectly capable of forming their own split-fee squads and have no right to complain about it.

As far as tanks/other people demanding money, I can only understand it if said person does not actually need anything in the instance so would be wasting time/pots and have repair costs with nothing to show for it. But I find it pretty sad (not to mention greedy) that people who actually need a BH would charge the squad for it only because they see via world chat that said squad is desperate for a tank. I've had tanks whisper me demanding money when it is a cleared easy instance like SoT and would take them all of 5 minutes. But I would rather spend more money in teles finding someone that isn't greedy than paying someone.

Thrieya - Lost City wrote: »

Where in your fantasyland are EoDs a 4mil drop?

you can run w/e squad you want and think it's fair. and maybe for your economy it is. In DW EoDs can sell fast at 4m, 4.5m if you wait a bit and the majority of catshops sell for 5m. Recovery after 2x is pretty fast too.

are you running free TT my drops too? after all, their npc price is a few k.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

well, it really depends on how slower. if it's group by group vs 2 pulls per valley it's not really just slightly slower. plus, in case of lunar it's more of a "share the whole profit"

Most barbs pull 2-3 groups at a tiem and most AOE DD's are awful so its pretty rare to run faster with aoe than run and gun

Annalyse - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So you'd rather spend ten minutes in a normally fast instance like BH79, waiting for everyone to get inside and trade the person with wine just to get started? I free wine these instances because I have no patience for slow people. I don't want to stand there trading every individual, I want to wine it and get clearing and the slow people can make their way in while I do so. And I leave drops as free because I really don't need 2x junk cluttering my inventory and being stuck with molds I only NPC anyway. That makes me a "do gooder?" I do it because it benefits me.

Lunar is a slightly different scenario, due to the end reward. However, most people actually prefer someone else to pay the opening fee and they just run along for the BH/badges. When you try making a split-fee squad now it is almost impossible to fill. Why? Because 9/10 people don't want to bother with the hassle of paying and then splitting the end reward. They are happy to get their badges and BH done, and there are so many free squads out there they will just take those instead. For people that don't like it, they are perfectly capable of forming their own split-fee squads and have no right to complain about it.

As far as tanks/other people demanding money, I can only understand it if said person does not actually need anything in the instance so would be wasting time/pots and have repair costs with nothing to show for it. But I find it pretty sad (not to mention greedy) that people who actually need a BH would charge the squad for it only because they see via world chat that said squad is desperate for a tank. I've had tanks whisper me demanding money when it is a cleared easy instance like SoT and would take them all of 5 minutes. But I would rather spend more money in teles finding someone that isn't greedy than paying someone.

I'd rather run unwined, with a half decent squad its just as fast, and I actually get to enjoy playign the game instead of spending the same time in the same bh....holding down my W key. Its pretty hilarious how bad winers are at the game.

Regenbogen - Lost City wrote: »

i always told people offering "free" lunar that they are hypocrites, just pretending to be nice but only being greedy...b:bye

I run free lunars, how is making money of peoples lazyness and stupidity worse than normal merchanting?

Money good. dont overcomplicate it.

No one should have the audacity to charge for their presence in an instance.
Either go because you want/need something, or go because you want to help altruistically.
The moment people regularly begin charging to participate in instances is the day the game truly has died. Not the economy, not the bugs, not the lack of new content, the players themselves will have killed the game.

The reason most people go to the free lunars is that they need the bh and can't be bothered to care about the rest of the stuff. In that case, the lead benefits with a few mil profit, and I benefit from getting my bh done and possibly getting 2-5 mil in bh rewards. I see that as more or less equal in gain. Under 2x it's a little different, and I probably would not do a free lunar. I find that place seriously annoying and, if I'm going to spend that much time in there under 2x I would prefer to get some extra coin back.
Actually I almost never do lunar unless someone I know asks me to come, and the split then isn't even a question.

If people want to offer some compensation for some help opening TT, or give tanks some repair money as incentive to join their party, or wine bhs for free that's fine, that's their choice, but it's a perk, not an expectation. No one will ever want to lead a squad for anything if everyone wants coin to join, because when you start charging for one thing, you know it will trickle down into other instances. That's not really a game I want to play anymore.

From my point of view when someone pay 3mil fee for Lunar they should get 1 EOD and other EOD should be random, cuz you pay 3 mil and you get 3 mil back because other people help you fight and do same work as you are, I dont think is fair for opener to take 2 EOD's and if they dont like it, do Lunar yourself! I just say what is fair, i really dont care cuz i never do lunar anyway but for others in squad they put same amount of effort in that Lunar and why should opener get 1 EOD extra?

Reliea - Sanctuary wrote: »

No one should have the audacity to charge for their presence in an instance.
Either go because you want/need something, or go because you want to help altruistically.
The moment people regularly begin charging to participate in instances is the day the game truly has died. Not the economy, not the bugs, not the lack of new content, the players themselves will have killed the game.

The reason most people go to the free lunars is that they need the bh and can't be bothered to care about the rest of the stuff. In that case, the lead benefits with a few mil profit, and I benefit from getting my bh done and possibly getting 2-5 mil in bh rewards. I see that as more or less equal in gain. Under 2x it's a little different, and I probably would not do a free lunar. I find that place seriously annoying and, if I'm going to spend that much time in there under 2x I would prefer to get some extra coin back.
Actually I almost never do lunar unless someone I know asks me to come, and the split then isn't even a question.

If people want to offer some compensation for some help opening TT, or give tanks some repair money as incentive to join their party, or wine bhs for free that's fine, that's their choice, but it's a perk, not an expectation. No one will ever want to lead a squad for anything if everyone wants coin to join, because when you start charging for one thing, you know it will trickle down into other instances. That's not really a game I want to play anymore.

Barbs/clerics/veno's in 08 game has been like this almost from the start. Seriously go look at old tt/delta threads of you dont believe me