Sould Shatter (veno skill) ignores my attack levels
Azura - Lost City
Posts: 2,281 Arc User
I was wondering if this is how is supposed to be. That the damage I do on a player is actually less than what the doll gets, because it ignores my attack level. Even though Soul Shatter is the advanced skill that is supposed to transfer 100% damage.
Thank in advance to anyone who knows...
Thank in advance to anyone who knows...
Post edited by Azura - Lost City on
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The description says the target takes 100% of all magic damage dealt to the doll. Perhaps the doll functions as a mob, in that it doesn't doesn't receive a 75% damage penalty and when the total amount of damage done to the doll is transferred to another person it's suffering that penalty? There's also the other person's defense and defense levels to account for, if defense levels factor into it.
Or, perhaps like other damage dealing Morai skills (Blade Tornado, Reckless Rush) it isn't affected by attack levels. Either of these would make sense. I'm not a Venomancer, so having no personal experience with using the skill I can't make that call.0 -
Azura - Lost City wrote: »I was wondering if this is how is supposed to be. That the damage I do on a player is actually less than what the doll gets, because it ignores my attack level. Even though Soul Shatter is the advanced skill that is supposed to transfer 100% damage.
Thank in advance to anyone who knows...
I am not sure if this is how it is supposed to be but you are correct....i just tested the skill with no equipment on and used the same attack with and without a jones blessing....The same damage was done regardless of defense lvl of the opponent both times....The skill seems to function like MOW...the only way to actually increase its damage is by lowering the opponents elemental defense.If that is the case it should get that 1.5x bonus like all the other soul damage skills. If i can figure out anything else i will post more.0 -
so does the transfered damage also ignore defense levels of the target player?
so far the skill seems nowhere near usefull...b:byei am waiting for you my little flagcarriers b:kiss0 -
Yeah it ignores defense levels too. I made quick test against my ep. First, using O'malley blessing, and then without any blessing. My ep received the same damage on both occassions.Regenbogen - Lost City wrote: »so does the transfered damage also ignore defense levels of the target player?
so far the skill seems nowhere near usefull...b:bye
And, I agree. This skill isn't very useful.0 -
Azura - Lost City wrote: »Yeah it ignores defense levels too. I made quick test against my ep. First, using O'malley blessing, and then without any blessing. My ep received the same damage on both occassions.
And, I agree. This skill isn't very useful.
It doesn't disappear when sins stealth.
You can AOE both it and the target for pretty much double damage.
Opponents in full jades will not reduce your damage at all when used on them.
It attacks through a barbarians turtle and does full damage.
It attacks through bramble hood and deals full damage.
If the doll is cast before opponent immunes you deal damage through immunity.
Do I need to continue?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »It doesn't disappear when sins stealth.
You can AOE both it and the target for pretty much double damage.
Opponents in full jades will not reduce your damage at all when used on them.
It attacks through a barbarians turtle and does full damage.
It attacks through bramble hood and deals full damage.
If the doll is cast before opponent immunes you deal damage through immunity.
Do I need to continue?
Don't forget that the advanced skill deals 100% damage, instead of 50%. Pretty nice for a two spark skill.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »It doesn't disappear when sins stealth.
You can AOE both it and the target for pretty much double damage.
Opponents in full jades will not reduce your damage at all when used on them.
It attacks through a barbarians turtle and does full damage.
It attacks through bramble hood and deals full damage.
If the doll is cast before opponent immunes you deal damage through immunity.
Do I need to continue?
Yeah keep going if you want... because in the end a veno will still do **** damage with this skill. What's the point of dealing lets say 7k on a barb on turtle when only you can really damage it? I hope that you are aware that unless the veno is disarmed that doll will only take one hit, at least with me. And all this for the cost of 2 sparks, pff, I rather use nova after the turtle effect is over.
Oh another thing, you can't die with this skill ever, because the max damage that can be transfered to a player is his current hp - 1.
Tbh, the only way I see this skill being useful is for doing a one and a half noxious scarab. Use sould shatter, then noxious scarab, 1 1/2 noxious. Good damage, even better than nova, but with nova I can deal 2 or 3 hits more that totally blow this skill.Vedovis - Lost City wrote: »Don't forget that the advanced skill deals 100% damage, instead of 50%. Pretty nice for a two spark skill.
The 50% one is soul link, I have sould shatter already, so it's 100% (but it ignores my attack level...)
Btw, if you have soul link only still, plz test if the skill also ignores attack levels. First, remove your weapon. Then, do different tests with blessings or not. See how much damage the doll gets, and how much the player receives.0 -
I just think the skill is not worth the cost of 2 sparks. There are so many other things you can do and may need to do with that amount of chi that I'm not willing to spend it on this skill.[SIGPIC]http://i.imgur.com/MtwcqjL.png[/SIGPIC]
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You aren't the only one that can bypass turtle, all damage dealing morai skills bypass turtle, bramble hood, plume shield, etc.
You're missing the point of the skill, which is that it not only bypasses shields but is unaffected by attack and defense levels. It may not be big to you but to someone who doesn't have 130+ attack levels it allows them to actually hurt people in full jades.
It also let's you hit sins even if they stealth (you completely ignored this point)
And allows you to continue attacking someone even if they ironguard (it goes through immunity which you also ignored)
You can easily bypass a charm with it by AoEing the doll and your target for pretty much double the damage +/- attack/defense level differences.
Assassins can't evade the damage and have it deal 1.
The doll doesn't kite.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Azura - Lost City wrote: »
... you can't die with this skill ever, because the max damage that can be transfered to a player is his current hp - 1.Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »I just think the skill is not worth the cost of 2 sparks. There are so many other things you can do and may need to do with that amount of chi that I'm not willing to spend it on this skill.
Exactly... like feral concentration, bramble hood, parasitic nova, natural psynergy, etc.
Changing the topic a bit... gratz on 105! Did you do pv to get to 105?Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »You aren't the only one that can bypass turtle, all damage dealing morai skills bypass turtle, bramble hood, plume shield, etc.
So?
You're missing the point of the skill, which is that it not only bypasses shields but is unaffected by attack and defense levels. It may not be big to you but to someone who doesn't have 130+ attack levels it allows them to actually hurt people in full jades.
So, you are saying is a good idea to expend 2 sparks to hurt a little bit a full jade person. I would only expend these precious 2 sparks if there was a chance to kill said person, but this skill doesn't even allow you to kill someone by using it. Killing or dding is not my job anyway, I let real dds do that for me.
It also let's you hit sins even if they stealth (you completely ignored this point)
I hit them, and then what? They won't die anyway. Why not instead of using 2 sparks, use a detection pot?
And allows you to continue attacking someone even if they ironguard (it goes through immunity which you also ignored)
Even if someone ironguarded with less than 100 hp left, and then I immediatly hit the doll, said person won't die. So, I use 2 sparks for doing 99 damage? No...
You can easily bypass a charm with it by AoEing the doll and your target for pretty much double the damage +/- attack/defense level differences.
I said that already, but since the skill ignores my attack levels, it's actually 1 1/2, not double.
Assassins can't evade the damage and have it deal 1.
I don't know what you are saying here. My attacks don't miss. Only noob sins use that skill to evade damage. Sins don't matter to me, and they are my least concern.
The doll doesn't kite.
Too bad it willl only take one hit.
Kniraven, I'm not sure what's your idea of venos. I'm not sure if you consider them a dd, or something else.
My idea of a veno is that venos are a support class, even the full magic venos. We have many skills that gives us survivability, and let us help our team in pve, or pvp. I, considering that venos are a support class, made my build to satisfy this role better. This is why I say using this skill is not worth. It's not worth expending 2 sparks for the mediocre damage it will deal. It's better to expend those 2 sparks on surviving, because anyone who plays as support, in pvp, will be drawing a lot of agro.
Anyway I have the feeling that you have a skill that ignores defense levels. If you have it: does it ignore attack levels too?0 -
Yeah, I did PV everyday with my game hubby and used the shroud token to do two sessions. It's all thanks to him though since he got into the trouble of running me through it b:chuckleAzura - Lost City wrote: »
Changing the topic a bit... gratz on 105! Did you do pv to get to 105?
It's so weird seeing this avatar though...
I can understand some of the points Kniraven posted but those are rather situational, like I said; not really worth the amount of chi required. I'd really rather throw a Parasitic Nova (+Zooming Powder) or Bramble Hood and run away xD
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Ah, that makes sense. I don't see how a veno can do pv effectively, unless someone helps her.Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »Yeah, I did PV everyday with my game hubby and used the shroud token to do two sessions. It's all thanks to him though since he got into the trouble of running me through it b:chuckle
It's so weird seeing this avatar though...
I can understand some of the points Kniraven posted but those are rather situational, like I said; not really worth the amount of chi required. I'd really rather throw a Parasitic Nova (+Zooming Powder) or Bramble Hood and run away xD
Once the pet expansion comes, I want to try pv just for fun, because for example the harpy has an aoe, and it deals extra damage to mobs.0 -
me personally..i learned the lvl 80 one and i don't use it. i had soul shattered and sold it...wasn't worth learning to me. if i didn't use the level 80 one.untamed_pain demon veno 103-100-101
SweetAzHoney Sage Cleric 102-currently rebirthing
xXZoeMarieXx sage seeker 101-currently rebirthing
StormyRainz Demon Mystic 101 Not rebirth yet
EsmeStorms Demon wizzy 101 not rebirth yet
UhitLikaGirl Almost sage barb 100 buffer
and loads of other alts...0 -
Azura, don't listen to Kniraven, he is directly interested in you wasting sparks b:sin
Yes, pls, maybe venos will change their minds if you are convincing x))Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »Do I need to continue?
Problem is, the doll is 1shot. Unless cleric casts seal of god on it, but this combo is hard to accomplish in real pvp even with smart and fast cleric, voicechat etcKniraven - Lost City wrote: »The doll doesn't kite.
She can. Actually its not the worst class for soloing pv since we have feral concentration. My best result is 5min/run so far. But my wep is still +4 >.< and i'm far from being full mag, so it's not the best result a veno can get. Considering purify on wep ofc, else you have to waste vacuity and wait for pots cd which will make run longer.Azura - Lost City wrote: »Ah, that makes sense. I don't see how a veno can do pv effectively, unless someone helps her.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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no pls stopKniraven - Lost City wrote: »It doesn't disappear when sins stealth.
doll turns yellow(npc) up on target stealthing
You can AOE both it and the target for pretty much double damage.
noxious gas or nova(another 2sparks)...well a psy could cast 4aoes dealing 2times the damage with each aoe in the same time
Opponents in full jades will not reduce your damage at all when used on them.
even with full jades endgame gear and jones blessing offer more atklv than deflv and while deflv still has dimishing returns
It attacks through a barbarians turtle and does full damage.
It attacks through bramble hood and deals full damage.
purge?
If the doll is cast before opponent immunes you deal damage through immunity.
so wasting 2sparks just if not...
Do I need to continue?Azura - Lost City wrote: »Ah, that makes sense. I don't see how a veno can do pv effectively, unless someone helps her.
Once the pet expansion comes, I want to try pv just for fun, because for example the harpy has an aoe, and it deals extra damage to mobs.
i can solo pv...
kiting is the better choice for full mag venos...i am waiting for you my little flagcarriers b:kiss0 -
Turtle isn't purgable. Sounds interesting to do some decent damage on barb who is escaping into turtle but only theoretically, if you can defeat a barb so easily you obviously don't need soul shatter.Regenbogen - Lost City wrote: »It attacks through a barbarians turtle and does full damage.
It attacks through bramble hood and deals full damage.
purge?
Why not? You never know what an average skill may hide b:chuckleRegenbogen - Lost City wrote: »no pls stop[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Does amping the doll increase the damage done to the target? Conversely, does amping the target increase the damage taken from attacking the doll? Does applying howl to either the doll or target increase damage taken from attacking the doll?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »Does amping the doll increase the damage done to the target? Conversely, does amping the target increase the damage taken from attacking the doll? Does applying howl to either the doll or target increase damage taken from attacking the doll?
Amping the doll doesn't increase the damage the player receives, but if you decrease the magic resistance of the doll, it increases the damage the player receives.
I hadn't thought about amping the player to see if it receives more damage. I will check that after I get back to home.0 -
Azura - Lost City wrote: »Amping the doll doesn't increase the damage the player receives, but if you decrease the magic resistance of the doll, it increases the damage the player receives.
I hadn't thought about amping the player to see if it receives more damage. I will check that after I get back to home.
somewhere i heard the doll had 0 res to begin with, the damage ignoring player resistance and reductions and amping works on both...well almost never using that skill b:surrenderi am waiting for you my little flagcarriers b:kiss0 -
Azura - Lost City wrote: »Yeah keep going if you want... because in the end a veno will still do **** damage with this skill. What's the point of dealing lets say 7k on a barb on turtle when only you can really damage it? I hope that you are aware that unless the veno is disarmed that doll will only take one hit, at least with me. And all this for the cost of 2 sparks, pff, I rather use nova after the turtle effect is over.
Oh another thing, you can't die with this skill ever, because the max damage that can be transfered to a player is his current hp - 1.
Tbh, the only way I see this skill being useful is for doing a one and a half noxious scarab. Use sould shatter, then noxious scarab, 1 1/2 noxious. Good damage, even better than nova, but with nova I can deal 2 or 3 hits more that totally blow this skill.
The 50% one is soul link, I have sould shatter already, so it's 100% (but it ignores my attack level...)
Btw, if you have soul link only still, plz test if the skill also ignores attack levels. First, remove your weapon. Then, do different tests with blessings or not. See how much damage the doll gets, and how much the player receives.
I have the skill book for soul shatter, haven't learnt it yet though [I'm forever running out of spirit u.u]. I'll test out soul link when I get home today and after maint ends.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Some facts about Soul Shatter that I have confirmed by doing tests:
1: The doll's magic resistance is based on the player's base magic defense.
2: Magic shell does not mitigate damage received
3: Reducing the doll's or player's magic resistance will increase the damage on the player
4: Amplify has no effect (amping doll or player)
5: Attack levels are ignored
6: Defense levels are ignored
7: If you make a doll of a sin, and then said sin goes in stealth, you cannot hit the doll.
8: If you use a detection pot to be able to hit the doll again, it will work (if you can detect the sin), but the sin won't be popped out of stealth by transfered damage.
9: The damage of this skill is capped. The max damage that can be transfered is:
the player's current hp - 1.
10: If you make a doll, and then aoe the player and the doll. The damage of the doll will register 1st, and then the one from the aoe (like noxious). So this way, you can actually one shot somoene.
The way I was reducing the magic resistance of the doll was with a pet skill, and with demon venomous scarab. I would disarm to cast venomous scarab, and then the next hit I would rearm and do a strong spell like ironwood, or noxious.
0 -
Azura - Lost City wrote: »Some facts about Soul Shatter that I have confirmed by doing tests:
1: The doll's magic resistance is based on the player's base magic defense.
2: Magic shell does not mitigate damage received
3: Reducing the doll's or player's magic resistance will increase the damage on the player
4: Amplify has no effect (amping doll or player)
5: Attack levels are ignored
6: Defense levels are ignored
7: If you make a doll of a sin, and then said sin goes in stealth, you cannot hit the doll.
8: If you use a detection pot to be able to hit the doll again, it will work (if you can detect the sin), but the sin won't be popped out of stealth by transfered damage.
9: The damage of this skill is capped. The max damage that can be transfered is:
the player's current hp - 1.
10: If you make a doll, and then aoe the player and the doll. The damage of the doll will register 1st, and then the one from the aoe (like noxious). So this way, you can actually one shot somoene.
The way I was reducing the magic resistance of the doll was with a pet skill, and with demon venomous scarab. I would disarm to cast venomous scarab, and then the next hit I would rearm and do a strong spell like ironwood, or noxious.
Interesting observations - I'd assume that soul link would probably have identical effects, but I'll check after maint just to be sure ^^[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Azura - Lost City wrote: »Some facts about Soul Shatter that I have confirmed by doing tests:
1: The doll's magic resistance is based on the player's base magic defense.
2: Magic shell does not mitigate damage received
3: Reducing the doll's or player's magic resistance will increase the damage on the player
4: Amplify has no effect (amping doll or player)
5: Attack levels are ignored
6: Defense levels are ignored
7: If you make a doll of a sin, and then said sin goes in stealth, you cannot hit the doll.
8: If you use a detection pot to be able to hit the doll again, it will work (if you can detect the sin), but the sin won't be popped out of stealth by transfered damage.
9: The damage of this skill is capped. The max damage that can be transfered is:
the player's current hp - 1.
10: If you make a doll, and then aoe the player and the doll. The damage of the doll will register 1st, and then the one from the aoe (like noxious). So this way, you can actually one shot somoene.
The way I was reducing the magic resistance of the doll was with a pet skill, and with demon venomous scarab. I would disarm to cast venomous scarab, and then the next hit I would rearm and do a strong spell like ironwood, or noxious.
Nice findings f:stare
Soul link should be about the same but with less damage I assume.[SIGPIC]http://i.imgur.com/MtwcqjL.png[/SIGPIC]
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Ty for info, Azura.
Big disadvantage of all this is time consumed. Make a doll, retarget, disarm, debuff, rearm, hit... takes ages. Nevertheless, can be useful for full magic sage veno especially if it double crits with noxious.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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ty azura for the testing... hope this skill gets some improvements...f:cute
has anybody confirmed yet if the doll can be damaged targets allies and damage does transfer?i am waiting for you my little flagcarriers b:kiss0 -
Azura - Lost City wrote: »Some facts about Soul Shatter that I have confirmed by doing tests:
1: The doll's magic resistance is based on the player's base magic defense.
2: Magic shell does not mitigate damage received
3: Reducing the doll's or player's magic resistance will increase the damage on the player
4: Amplify has no effect (amping doll or player)
5: Attack levels are ignored
6: Defense levels are ignored
7: If you make a doll of a sin, and then said sin goes in stealth, you cannot hit the doll.
8: If you use a detection pot to be able to hit the doll again, it will work (if you can detect the sin), but the sin won't be popped out of stealth by transfered damage.
9: The damage of this skill is capped. The max damage that can be transfered is:
the player's current hp - 1.
10: If you make a doll, and then aoe the player and the doll. The damage of the doll will register 1st, and then the one from the aoe (like noxious). So this way, you can actually one shot somoene.
The way I was reducing the magic resistance of the doll was with a pet skill, and with demon venomous scarab. I would disarm to cast venomous scarab, and then the next hit I would rearm and do a strong spell like ironwood, or noxious.
One very strange thing I noticed about Soul Link was that it also slowed a sin in my squad who was next to the barb I was using Soul Link on. It did this repeatedly. Since I was duelling in a safezone, this should not have happened.
I've done a few tests with the lesser skill [soul link] - from what I've tested, it DOES take attack levels into account. I'll try tomorrow with a Jones when I can get one.
Damage on doll with 0 attack levels, no weapon or mag defence buffs/debuffs - 1024
Damage on doll with 15 attack levels, no weapon or mag defence buffs/debuffs - 1189
Damage on doll with 0 attack levels, no weapon and wood debuff - 1089
Damage on doll with 15 attack levels, no weapon and wood debuff - 1263
After this, I tested out whether amplify increased the damage on the doll; and found
Damage on doll with 0 attack levels, no weapon or mag defence buffs/debuffs WITH AMP - 1280
Damage on doll with 15 attack levels, no weapon or mag defence buffs/debuffs WITH AMP - 1486
Damage on doll with 0 attack levels, no weapon and wood debuff WITH AMP - 1361
Damage on doll with 15 attack levels, no weapon and wood debuff WITH AMP - 1579
Throughout the test I had exactly 1590 base magic attack, barb I was hitting had 2334
magic defence.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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I got soul shatter too, tried it and i really hit a bit harder with jone's blessing. Not 30% harder though but definitely not the same.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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I got a friend who has soul link to help me test a bit. I found out that soul link ignores attack levels too. She was disarmed, and first tried w.o blessing. The transfered damage was 364. After that she tried again with blessing, the damae was again 364. Ofc, the doll does recieve more damage, if you have more attack levels, but that doesn't matter, the only thing that matters is the transfered damage.
Btw, I thought of a better combo with this skill...
If you are demon: Use soul shatter, then demon venomous scarab on the player, then noxious gas. This way you don't have to switch targets. Since soul shatter slows players down, you probably should be able to hit the doll and the player before s/he goes out of range.
If you are sage (with sage lucky scarab): Use soul shatter, then lucky scarab, and then noxious scarab. Lucky scarab last longer, so I think with this combo the player won't even have a change to get away. Here, you don't need to change target either.0 -
This is a really interesting thread and I don't know a whole lot about this subject, but I have a few questions that I haven't been able to answer using the search option.
Can other players attack the doll? If yes, are they under the same atk lvl constraints?
Can pets attack the doll? I saw mention that melee damage is ineffective, but I was wondering how a ranged pet would do and if it would also ignore opponent's def levels.
I am also curious if it can damage a target's allies.
And to clarify, it can hit opponents through immunity such as Ironguard? and it does ignore defense boosting skills like barb's Turtle?
Basically I am interested in its effectiveness in group pvp.
Apologies if some of these questions are redundant.Ring Engraving/Amulet Carving Guide - pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1174451
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I'd slip a Myriad Rainbow in before Noxious on the off chance of a mind break.Vindis - Dreamweaver wrote: »This is a really interesting thread and I don't know a whole lot about this subject, but I have a few questions that I haven't been able to answer using the search option.
I haven't tested, so this is just what I gathered from other's posts and my interpretations thereof.
Yes, but bear in mind that the first strong magic attack will destroy the doll.Can other players attack the doll?
YesIf yes, are they under the same atk lvl constraints?
Yes.Can pets attack the doll?
Ranged pets do physical damage, so their ranged autoattack would be ineffective. However, Howl (mdef debuff skill) and elemental bashes (Icicle etc.) should work and ignore the opponent's def levels. (Storm Mistress' skills should work, and I believe that the upcoming Harpy legendary pet has a ranged skill doing magic damage.)I saw mention that melee damage is ineffective, but I was wondering how a ranged pet would do and if it would also ignore opponent's def levels.
Should only transfer damage to its linked target, not any allies.I am also curious if it can damage a target's allies.
Yes, if the link is made before the immunity goes into effect.And to clarify, it can hit opponents through immunity such as Ironguard?
Yes.and it does ignore defense boosting skills like barb's Turtle?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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