Is there too much "clutter" in game?

ponyduck · April 2013

I'm curious to see if anyone agrees with me on this.

When it first came out, I played another PWE game (FW) for a year or so,
then quit. Today I got an email from them saying "we miss you--come back"
and as incentive, offered me all this free in-game stuff: star packs &
titles & stones of various sorts--just all sorts of stuff I don't even
remember what they're for.

But it struck me then the reason I grew tired of that game: there was
just TOO MUCH STUFF. Odd as that may sound, I find that all the
clutter was just . . . oh, I don't know--just clutter. It tends to
have the same effect on me as a messy, cluttered house does--makes
me feel overwhelmed & I just want to get out of there.

Then I realized the same phenomenon had happened in PWI, and it's
one of the reasons I've gradually lost interest in this game as
well. When I first started playing in 2009, there was a simplicity
to it that was very appealing. Now it's jammed with packs & inks &
essences, etc, etc. (I haven't kept up with end-game stuff at all,
so my examples may be poor, but I'm sure you know what I mean.)

Maybe it's because I'm an older player (and by that I mean, older
in real life), and I'm sure a lot of it has to do with my personality
as well. I tend to be drawn to simply but beautifully wrought things.
Solid, well-made things which exhibit the maker's skill, care & pride
in his craftsmanship. Things with a lot of cheap bells & whistles
don't do it for me. And that's what PWI has become to my perception:
a once-elegant, simple game that gradually got so loaded down with tons
of poorly designed add-ons that it now is an unwieldy mass of junk with
its original beauty & style completely obliterated.

I know the game will not change; it will continue on this same course
because it's apparent that most players are enjoying all the new
things they keep adding on. And that's fine--different strokes for
different folks. I'm just curious if there's anyone out there who
shares my penchant for simplicity.

To save some of you the trouble, I'll do your posts for you:
1) "No."
2) "You're not supposed to talk about other games, even PWE ones, in
this forum."
3) "QQ moar"
4) "If you don't like it, just quit & go back to playing Pong, you
old geezer."

Vedovis - Lost City · April 2013

Ugh, I agree. I started a blademaster a couple of weeks ago and quit playing her only at level 30 because of the amount of **** I didn't have space for. One of the biggest annoyances is the dreamchaser pack, it has tons of useful stuff I just don't have space for and can't store anywhere else. Nowadays I just log her to collect my free money from Jones since I can't stand playing with a full invo. I wouldn't be surprised if PWI inteded for this so newbies would buy invo stones and such from the boutique when they started.

CapnK - Sanctuary · April 2013

You need seven free spaces in inventory to turn in a BH1. SEVEN. b:angry

Mr_Z - Harshlands · April 2013

I strongly agree. I am an old player as well, I'm not sure how old, though. The reason my level is so low is due to the fact that I quit for a while.

I just recently came back. b:laugh

Narcillatrix - Dreamweaver · April 2013

I would agree that there are a lot of things that seems to take of space in game, but compared to other games, PW's clutter isn't that bad. The clutter in other games is just godawful. f:shh

Takeva - Heavens Tear · April 2013

CapnK - Sanctuary wrote: »

You need seven free spaces in inventory to turn in a BH1. SEVEN. b:angry

This irritates me soooo much. Having to keep clearing out stuff to turn in bh. And why doesn't nirvana talisman stack. Hate unstackable items should be stackable.

Evalria - Sanctuary · April 2013

I appreciate the fact that even after all this time, the UI remained quite clean, smooth and comprehensive.
Other games have so many buttons, shiny stuff, icons and even more buttons, that it gets confusing and pressing something becomes an adventure. b:laugh

I too miss the simplicity of the game in its early days, and how the atmosphere was so much more friendlier, people would actually stop and sit in game to talk and admire the scenery, now apparently "ain't nobody got time for that" since they all run through dungeons all day like robots, doing the same things over and over again without even being open to changes i.e. unconventional squad setups to make things different.

We can't change anything, indeed...
Maybe all that is left to do is simply try to find silver linings, and when not even that will be possible anymore...
I stand by eliminating things that make you unhappy from your life, and if the game becomes a source of unhappiness and stress, it is better to move forward from it and let it be.

Alsiadorra - Sanctuary · April 2013

Vedovis - Lost City wrote: »

Ugh, I agree. I started a blademaster a couple of weeks ago and quit playing her only at level 30 because of the amount of **** I didn't have space for. One of the biggest annoyances is the dreamchaser pack, it has tons of useful stuff I just don't have space for and can't store anywhere else. Nowadays I just log her to collect my free money from Jones since I can't stand playing with a full invo. I wouldn't be surprised if PWI inteded for this so newbies would buy invo stones and such from the boutique when they started.

Kinda similar to how things are setup for aspiring venos. You either stress yourself out to all hell getting those hays, or fork up the money to buy the pet bag stone/cage.

Crixxix - Raging Tide · April 2013

When talking about clutter, a certain online, Java-based, partially f2p MMO come to mind. Won't name any specific games though. b:chuckle

Jadsia - Lost City · April 2013

Takeva - Heavens Tear wrote: »

This irritates me soooo much. Having to keep clearing out stuff to turn in bh. And why doesn't nirvana talisman stack. Hate unstackable items should be stackable.

It would be interesting to see how they can make items that are individually timed stack properly.

Annalyse - Heavens Tear · April 2013

CapnK - Sanctuary wrote: »

You need seven free spaces in inventory to turn in a BH1. SEVEN. b:angry

This irritates me soooooo much. Especially on 2x when I have an inventory full of junk and have to dump pots and stuff to turn in BH.

Why can't you have an option to select things like nirvana keys/shard thingies/fairy box keys and we can choose if we want them or not? I just NPC it all on most of my chars and I'd rather not have to bother with it in the first place.

And also, while on the topic of clutter...... TT mats. Seriously, why only stack to 20? Everything else stacks higher. Trying to continually make space on faction bank characters to hold all these piles of 20 is driving me nuts.

MetzliDemon - Harshlands · April 2013

Evalria - Sanctuary wrote: »

I appreciate the fact that even after all this time, the UI remained quite clean, smooth and comprehensive.
Other games have so many buttons, shiny stuff, icons and even more buttons, that it gets confusing and pressing something becomes an adventure. b:laugh

I too miss the simplicity of the game in its early days, and how the atmosphere was so much more friendlier, people would actually stop and sit in game to talk and admire the scenery, now apparently "ain't nobody got time for that" since they all run through dungeons all day like robots, doing the same things over and over again without even being open to changes i.e. unconventional squad setups to make things different.

We can't change anything, indeed...
Maybe all that is left to do is simply try to find silver linings, and when not even that will be possible anymore...
I stand by eliminating things that make you unhappy from your life, and if the game becomes a source of unhappiness and stress, it is better to move forward from it and let it be.

It can change if players change their way of thinking and stop being "robots"... xD
Personally, now most of times I go into PWI I gotta do stuff very fast, I don't have time to admire the landscape (which I love to) but that's because my parents have put limits to the time I play, so... Just in weekends I can sit in the beach and enjoy the sunset f:cute

Lesthar - Heavens Tear · April 2013

Evalria - Sanctuary wrote: »

I appreciate the fact that even after all this time, the UI remained quite clean, smooth and comprehensive.
Other games have so many buttons, shiny stuff, icons and even more buttons, that it gets confusing and pressing something becomes an adventure. b:laugh

I too miss the simplicity of the game in its early days, and how the atmosphere was so much more friendlier, people would actually stop and sit in game to talk and admire the scenery, now apparently "ain't nobody got time for that" since they all run through dungeons all day like robots, doing the same things over and over again without even being open to changes i.e. unconventional squad setups to make things different.

We can't change anything, indeed...
Maybe all that is left to do is simply try to find silver linings, and when not even that will be possible anymore...
I stand by eliminating things that make you unhappy from your life, and if the game becomes a source of unhappiness and stress, it is better to move forward from it and let it be.

In fact, I felt like posting here to talk about what you exactly described in the first paragraph, but I'd express the inverse... to me the UI is worse than ever (besides being better-looking). More of big round buttons taking space, a silly whirl on the skill bar, window parts here and there and it gets even worse when someone tries to be funny via a horn (why does that freeze item transfers by the way?!).
Maybe it's because I play on smaller screens (laptop and notebook) by default?

As for your second paragraph, I totally agree with you. I feel they are lazy scaredy cats who can't live beyond the lines they agreed upon and stick to in a fierce way (ironically enough, their rushing ways can lead to total disaster, but they will NEVER blame themselves for their own mishaps, reckless behavior or bad builds). They even insult you for being different if you don't mindlessly follow their criteria.
PWI truly needs randomly generated dungeons and techically more advanced AI bosses for such people... It could be a welcome breath of fresh air.

A game is indeed made for people to have fun (setting aside the usual goal of the company making much money in the process). If there is no such feeling, better not remain there; but again, some are so addicted they cannot stop (I look again at those who spent thousands of bucks in this game to be the "best around" and can't quit because of that).

Pretty sad to witness, indeed.

Kinjeto - Raging Tide · April 2013

ponyduck wrote: »

I'm curious to see if anyone agrees with me on this.
Then I realized the same phenomenon had happened in PWI, and it's
one of the reasons I've gradually lost interest in this game as
well. When I first started playing in 2009, there was a simplicity
to it that was very appealing. Now it's jammed with packs & inks &
essences, etc, etc. (I haven't kept up with end-game stuff at all,
so my examples may be poor, but I'm sure you know what I mean.)

Maybe it's because I'm an older player (and by that I mean, older
in real life), and I'm sure a lot of it has to do with my personality
as well. I tend to be drawn to simply but beautifully wrought things.
Solid, well-made things which exhibit the maker's skill, care & pride
in his craftsmanship. Things with a lot of cheap bells & whistles
don't do it for me. And that's what PWI has become to my perception:
a once-elegant, simple game that gradually got so loaded down with tons
of poorly designed add-ons that it now is an unwieldy mass of junk with
its original beauty & style completely obliterated.

I know the game will not change; it will continue on this same course
because it's apparent that most players are enjoying all the new
things they keep adding on. And that's fine--different strokes for
different folks. I'm just curious if there's anyone out there who
shares my penchant for simplicity.

Definitely less clutter and tiding up all the loose ends on the crafting side of things would be a bigger improvement. That I can agree with. But more straight forwardness, definitely yeah. Prior to 2009. Yeah.

Veno_Dancer - Raging Tide · April 2013

Vedovis - Lost City wrote: »

Ugh, I agree. I started a blademaster a couple of weeks ago and quit playing her only at level 30 because of the amount of **** I didn't have space for. One of the biggest annoyances is the dreamchaser pack, it has tons of useful stuff I just don't have space for and can't store anywhere else. Nowadays I just log her to collect my free money from Jones since I can't stand playing with a full invo. I wouldn't be surprised if PWI inteded for this so newbies would buy invo stones and such from the boutique when they started.

FREE MONEy from jones? what I miss?

woops. I posted this on wrong account. my main is 86 veno. lol

Vedovis - Lost City · April 2013

Veno_Dancer - Raging Tide wrote: »

FREE MONEy from jones? what I miss?

woops. I posted this on wrong account. my main is 86 veno. lol

It's a new daily event for characters level 30-70? [not sure on the end level cap, but definately 86 is too high] - you get an amount of coin and 7 daily bounty orders each day. The bounty orders allow you to pick up quests from Jones himself, and all have a pretty nice coin reward. I'm not too sure what the level/monetary gain is so don't quote me on it >.< Might be somewhere on the forums if you look around b:cute

Miugre - Heavens Tear · April 2013

I find myself agreeing with most people here (if not all). :P The problem is that wanmei doesn't know how to actually work with their existing systems rather than just stapling new content onto them.

For me, the biggest offenders are early-game gear. Two "upgrades" in particular earn my ire:
1. The Elders' Blessing gear or w/e it's called... the one that seems to come in and out of the game at random as that big obnoxious treasure chest icon. It just gives you free armor with a 3wk(?) timer, which is just totally overpowered for the lowgame. I remember equipping that stuff once at low level, saw my 90+% physical AND magic resistance, gagged, NPCd the stuff and bought NPC armor instead. >_>
2. The Harbringer of Fortune NPC with the free charms. Seriously... every day, a free charm until Lv60. Because all those pots you find on the ground (not to mention the hundreds you get from supply stash) are there for decoration, apparently.

I wouldn't even mind the clutter so much if it was new items. These two examples simply create clutter by making old items irrelevant. Back in the day, you would actually explore the world and be intrigued by gear drops at low level. Now your hand is held until at least 30 for gear purposes and 60 for HP/MP purposes.

Then there's the Dreamchaser pack, which for me gets a free pass because hey, there's only so many of them and they're not being given out at the moment. Give one to every new char, and then we'll have a problem.

ponyduck · April 2013

Mugre, you have explained better than I what I was trying to say in my
original post. And this line right here is spot on:

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The problem is that wanmei doesn't know how to actually work with their existing systems rather than just stapling new content onto them.

The rest of your post describes exactly the kind of "clutter" I was
referring to. Even the end-game stuff strikes me as tremendously
cluttered. But remember, I haven't really gotten into the end-game
area--I kinda burned out & quit playing seriously when r9 came out,
so my impressions may be off the mark on this. But just observing
from the "outside" so to speak, there's all these defense/attack levels,
warding & slaying levels, special inscriptions(?) you use some kind of
ink for. All the guild base activities, special molds, shards, etc., etc.

I realize of course, that had I kept up with the game, all this would
no doubt seem less confusing to me. But in general the game now strikes
me as a garish side-show, as compared to a once well-kept, beautiful
little theme park.

Just a little side note: I looked at the boutique the other day for the
first time in ages, and was staggered by the number of packs they now
offer. OMG! Really?! I know PWI makes a TON of money off these, but
seriously? LOL!! But it's a good way to give an example of how I
think clutter should be cleaned up: instead of offering a whole new
pack with a chance of getting some new mount or whatever, just have
one or two packs total, and announce every so often that now PWI has
added the chance to get whatever new mount/item from them.

I often wonder how this game would be now had the original devs
held full sway of it the whole time.

marchof5in · April 2013

okayy

Chanzeer - Lost City · April 2013

Crixxix - Raging Tide wrote: »

When talking about clutter, a certain online, Java-based, partially f2p MMO come to mind. Won't name any specific games though. b:chuckle

lol i know what game your talking about b:laugh

Chuck_smith - Sanctuary · April 2013

There is nothing else in this game, just too many things handed to you. It was good while it lasted. PVE and events were the only interesting about this game, now there is nothing interesting because it became a borefest. Too many ridiculous items and new content that gets uninteresting within less than a month.

You don't even play the game, just skip it all and get to 101-105 and you either PVP or quit. I hate PVP on MMORPGs anyway because it is easy to kill people in seconds, not even easy fights in FPS games are like that.

Is there too much "clutter" in game?

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