What if spawn point was a safe zone?

LancePayne - Dreamweaver
LancePayne - Dreamweaver Posts: 11 Arc User
edited April 2013 in Nation Wars
Or do we prefer getting spawn killed?

If it was safe at least we could chi up/buff/get genie out of cool down before going into battle. Might make NW a lot more fun for most, and we just laugh at the spawn killers lol.
Post edited by LancePayne - Dreamweaver on

Comments

  • Walpurga - Dreamweaver
    Walpurga - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,028 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    It's safe for 12 seconds, 5 of which are under 3spark tier dmg boost.
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  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    It's safe for 12 seconds, 5 of which are under 3spark tier dmg boost.

    15 seconds.
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  • Flamespirit - Dreamweaver
    Flamespirit - Dreamweaver Posts: 337 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Which is not nearly long enough to be prepared to fight off multiple attackers. Atleast on my server it is pretty popular for the battle to be carried to 3-5 people on each of the first spawn points. For instance as a wizard it takes 7 seconds just to cast morning dew to fill you life. It then takes 2.2 for stone barrier. Then 3.8 seconds for sand miasma. Then 1.8 for frostblade.5 seconds and 30 chi for arcane defense. Stone barrier actually costs 50 chi so Now you are limited to 1 or less than 1 spark skills. Genie may be on cd and apoth may be on cd. Add that up with your going to take 3-4 hits the second immune wears off as well as possible stuns from multi classes, well it sucks for all but the best geared and charmed players.

    Would definitely be inn support of it being safe zone as long as the area was tiny so that it didn't create a haven for people to hit the flag runner from.
  • SnowTempests - Raging Tide
    SnowTempests - Raging Tide Posts: 63 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Just know that if your undergeared against someone a really higher tier than you (g16 v r9r2, r8 v g16, etc) don't expect to win against them unless you gank them.

    The 15 sec immunity, 3 spark damage boost, and buffs is fair against Equal geared players, so it's best not to expect to kill someone a higher tier than you, so run and let someone else deal with them. The problem with making spawn point safe zones is campers which will exit and enter safe zone which can be really annoying when your trying to deliver the flag. (e.g. someone holy path outside of safe zone to attack, holy path back in if feels threaten)

    Also, it is unwise to buff in front of your enemy when you re spawned, if you want to attack, immediately buff your most important skill (just 1) and go on the attack or run away. It is also reasonable to see the average enemy you will face, if it's a 10 v 20, expect to be able to deal with 2 enemies.

    And don't forget... what you want that benefits you, WILL benefit the people your opposing. This is kinda how karma goes.

    The whole point of NW is delivering the flag and claim lands, not PVP. Spawn killing isn't the only stressful point of NW.
  • Star_Prism - Archosaur
    Star_Prism - Archosaur Posts: 216 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Having a safe zone would be good. I've said it before the best place to do it is that center platform. Just make it slightly larger and add an overseer there. Have that be the only spawn point. While on that platform you can not attack or be attacked (but can use buffs and apoths). To keep it from being abused a person can not access it unless you are entering/respawing and it should have a timer. After a certain amount of time if you have not left you get ported back to base. That will keep afk alts out of battles.

    With the larger map I don't even see why people still spawn kill. Now when people enter a battle that is heavily being spawn camped they will just leave. There are plenty of other battles for a person to go to, so no need to stay in. If everyone leaves or it killed off right away it makes the battle short and gives almost no points. People are actually sabotaging their own score by spawn killing and sadly, are too stupid to even realize it.
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  • LancePayne - Dreamweaver
    LancePayne - Dreamweaver Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Having a safe zone would be good. I've said it before the best place to do it is that center platform. Just make it slightly larger and add an overseer there. Have that be the only spawn point. While on that platform you can not attack or be attacked (but can use buffs and apoths). To keep it from being abused a person can not access it unless you are entering/respawing and it should have a timer. After a certain amount of time if you have not left you get ported back to base. That will keep afk alts out of battles.

    This would be awesome and with the timer to keep out campers it could work. I would just like to get genie and some skills out of cd before heading back out. I think this would make NW a lot more fun for everyone and I know people get frustrated being spawn killed and quit leaving their nation shorthanded... think it would solve that too.
  • Walpurga - Dreamweaver
    Walpurga - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,028 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Just know that if your undergeared against someone a really higher tier than you (g16 v r9r2, r8 v g16, etc) don't expect to win against them unless you gank them.

    The 15 sec immunity, 3 spark damage boost, and buffs is fair against Equal geared players, so it's best not to expect to kill someone a higher tier than you, so run and let someone else deal with them. The problem with making spawn point safe zones is campers which will exit and enter safe zone which can be really annoying when your trying to deliver the flag. (e.g. someone holy path outside of safe zone to attack, holy path back in if feels threaten)

    Also, it is unwise to buff in front of your enemy when you re spawned, if you want to attack, immediately buff your most important skill (just 1) and go on the attack or run away. It is also reasonable to see the average enemy you will face, if it's a 10 v 20, expect to be able to deal with 2 enemies.

    And don't forget... what you want that benefits you, WILL benefit the people your opposing. This is kinda how karma goes.

    The whole point of NW is delivering the flag and claim lands, not PVP. Spawn killing isn't the only stressful point of NW.

    ^

    I'm usually fine with the spawn AD. If it's 20v1 I leave, if it's the flag group stomping through I fly up and away towards the flag and my team.
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  • SnowTempests - Raging Tide
    SnowTempests - Raging Tide Posts: 63 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Having a safe zone would be good. I've said it before the best place to do it is that center platform. Just make it slightly larger and add an overseer there. Have that be the only spawn point. While on that platform you can not attack or be attacked (but can use buffs and apoths). To keep it from being abused a person can not access it unless you are entering/respawing and it should have a timer. After a certain amount of time if you have not left you get ported back to base. That will keep afk alts out of battles.

    With the larger map I don't even see why people still spawn kill. Now when people enter a battle that is heavily being spawn camped they will just leave. There are plenty of other battles for a person to go to, so no need to stay in. If everyone leaves or it killed off right away it makes the battle short and gives almost no points. People are actually sabotaging their own score by spawn killing and sadly, are too stupid to even realize it.

    Sadly, knowing PWI, they recycle their systems and usually avoid creating new ones. I would expect some decent change in the new expansion which seems like it would involve changing NW a bit.

    Actually, it's true that spawn killing does give less points, so does capping the flag way too quickly, however to many, if the situation is dire, they will go to serious measures. Everyone knowingly spawn kills, so it's rather hypocritical. The increase of map gives more opportunities if you would leave the map. One thing I would like is to respawn with full genie points, because I hate being killed protecting the flag and I HAVE to get back into the battle quick. But if it would change the much to people, I would approve spawning with full chi and full genie energy (so they can holy path away), just to make things a bit more interesting.
    ^

    I'm usually fine with the spawn AD. If it's 20v1 I leave, if it's the flag group stomping through I fly up and away towards the flag and my team.

    Yes flying to full height will prevent people from attacking you, (I believe there a small area up in the tree that god knows I can't reach lol)
  • BurnWhenIWiz - Heavens Tear
    BurnWhenIWiz - Heavens Tear Posts: 289 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    If there was only one spawn point, then all the opposing side would have to do is camp around the edge of it. Except now they can use fewer people to hold your side at bay while they run the flag. You either go outside and get killed the same as before, or you stay in sz and are rendered useless to your side.
  • burningsweetfire
    burningsweetfire Posts: 142 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    If there was only one spawn point, then all the opposing side would have to do is camp around the edge of it. Except now they can use fewer people to hold your side at bay while they run the flag. You either go outside and get killed the same as before, or you stay in sz and are rendered useless to your side.

    ^
    I rather have people forced to fight instead people just sitting in spawn doing nothing and redeeming points for just being there, which can encourage more alts into NW. It's not a fun NW if everyone just sits in safe zone and don't let anyone kill them or even get a kill.
  • Miugre - Heavens Tear
    Miugre - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    While I would agree that a static safe zone probablys cause more problems than it solves, something needs to be done about spawn killing in general.

    When I respawn, I fly. Immediately. I get as far away as possible until there's nobody on my tail before I rebuff. This works under most conditions, but the problem really arises when some guy is chasing me through the air to kill me before I can even heal/buff. That's the part that gets to me. Safe zone or not, killing someone who hasn't gotten the chance to get ready yet is just not a fair fight.

    I'm forced to wonder how much will be fixed if your HP/MP bars refill to 100% (or at least 50-75%) when you respawn without a charm. It stands to reason that if you get half your chi back and a few helpful buffs, you should get your HP/MP back as well. This would actually do a lot towards curbing spawn camping.
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  • SnowTempests - Raging Tide
    SnowTempests - Raging Tide Posts: 63 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I'm forced to wonder how much will be fixed if your HP/MP bars refill to 100% (or at least 50-75%) when you respawn without a charm. It stands to reason that if you get half your chi back and a few helpful buffs, you should get your HP/MP back as well. This would actually do a lot towards curbing spawn camping.

    I would approve this too, knowing that once spawn with such a low hp, 15 sec is reasonable to pot a crab, however hp wouldn't be full as it should. furthermore, with low hp, almost anyone can kill someone that just spawned, so it would save pots, even for me a charm tick, if you are spawned with 100% hp and mp.
  • Zsw - Dreamweaver
    Zsw - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,087 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    It would have to be so small that if you take a single step, you're out and you can't reenter, to prevent abuse. Would also definitely need a timer, otherwise people will just camp safe zone.

    Although I do not know of any class that takes longer than 15 seconds to buff up. If you're honestly channeling the full 4.5 seconds of Morning Dew as a wizard, then there's really nothing that's going to save you anyway though. Better to just leave the fight and go somewhere else.
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  • OHelixSykar - Archosaur
    OHelixSykar - Archosaur Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    The safe spot idea would cause more problems than it would solve. I think for the 15 seconds of immunity that you get after respawning, they should add a channeling buff. The channeling buff should allow buff skills to have no channeling or at least 1 second channeling. This will allow adequate time for buffs and healing.
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  • Liam_ - Sanctuary
    Liam_ - Sanctuary Posts: 198 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Maybe remove a minute wait or so from your CD's on spawn. I know one of the biggest killers for me is when I'm popping everything against multiple r9+ opponents, get killed anyway and end up at spawn point with both sprints and several damage skills under CD. 15 seconds does nothing if I can barely escape, reach or deal heavy damage to those camping the area. Genie's being refreshed with 50% stamina or so would be nice too.