Is it true?

FoxyGR - Raging Tide · April 2013

So what about a faction that you already run that's not going into TW, and you have another character in another faction that was promoted which also does not do TW? Is that okay or is that also against the rules?

Longknife - Harshlands · April 2013

FoxyGR - Raging Tide wrote: »

So what about a faction that you already run that's not going into TW, and you have another character in another faction that was promoted which also does not do TW? Is that okay or is that also against the rules?

As long as a faction isn't actively TWing, it doesn't count.

You need to be officer in two factions that are TWing the exact same week AND someone has to ticket you about it. You're literally and technically not even breaking the rules until someone tickets you about it, because PWI sorta has the attitude of "if he's not getting ticketed for it, he's not doing anything wrong" with this rule.

Deflectra - Sanctuary · April 2013

The sad part is TW is a joke now, NW is what counts.

Knownase - Heavens Tear · April 2013

Deflectra - Sanctuary wrote: »

The sad part is TW is a joke now, NW is what counts.

NW is a joke now too.

Jarkhen - Archosaur · April 2013

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

As long as a faction isn't actively TWing, it doesn't count.

You need to be officer in two factions that are TWing the exact same week AND someone has to ticket you about it. You're literally and technically not even breaking the rules until someone tickets you about it, because PWI sorta has the attitude of "if he's not getting ticketed for it, he's not doing anything wrong" with this rule.

Incorrect. You only have to be an officer in one TW faction while having an alt in another faction if both are TW factions.

See TW rules:

If you are in a leadership position of a faction, you cannot be a member of another faction that participates in Territory Wars on the same server.

Crixxix - Raging Tide · April 2013

I say: What are rules? It's just a game, ffs. Everyone whines and cries and snitches on people over a game? Might wanna examine your life a lil bit. I can understand reporting botters and people that troll too hard on world chat, but this? Report scammers and exploiters, but this is insane guys.

I agree that some of these rules need to be looked at again, and maybe scrutinized, because look at it this way. With all the lvl 100's out there, you occasionally get bored. You make a new toon, and wanna put it into a TW faction. I know of a lot of people that should get banned if this rule stays in place. I could probably produce a list of 50+ people.

We need to get v4liance on this thread to review this rule, and the comments that were posted here.

Longknife - Harshlands · April 2013

Jarkhen - Archosaur wrote: »

Incorrect. You only have to be an officer in one TW faction while having an alt in another faction if both are TW factions.

See TW rules:

I'm getting my info from directly ticketing the support team myself.

Am I allowed to quote my ticket here or is that a no-no?

I say: What are rules? It's just a game, ffs. Everyone whines and cries and snitches on people over a game? Might wanna examine your life a lil bit. I can understand reporting botters and people that troll too hard on world chat, but this? Report scammers and exploiters, but this is insane guys.

That's the entire problem. I don't think this thread is composed of snitchers and crybabies, I think it's composed of people who know snitchers and crybabies will always exist and WILL utilize the report feature not because they're actually bothered by the offense itself, but because they're childish and take a game uber srsbsns.

The problem is that when such an attitude exists, the rules need to mind that, but currently they don't exactly. I mean they do, imo (unless a server has a legit problem with one person controlling multiple factions), but it's never a bad thing to critically review the rules and try to revise them in a way that benefits everyone.

Jarkhen - Archosaur · April 2013

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

I'm getting my info from directly ticketing the support team myself.

Am I allowed to quote my ticket here or is that a no-no?

Considering some people have been told by the support team that you need to be an officer in both factions, some have been told by the support team that you only have to be an officer in one faction, and some have been told by the support team that you just have to have an alt in multiple TW factions...

Frankly, I wouldn't take their word as very reliable.

ovenusarmanio · April 2013

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

I'm getting my info from directly ticketing the support team myself.

Am I allowed to quote my ticket here or is that a no-no?

That's the entire problem. I don't think this thread is composed of snitchers and crybabies, I think it's composed of people who know snitchers and crybabies will always exist and WILL utilize the report feature not because they're actually bothered by the offense itself, but because they're childish and take a game uber srsbsns.

The problem is that when such an attitude exists, the rules need to mind that, but currently they don't exactly. I mean they do, imo (unless a server has a legit problem with one person controlling multiple factions), but it's never a bad thing to critically review the rules and try to revise them in a way that benefits everyone.

Hey Longknife just wanted to clarify that posting a specific ticket is not allowed per forum rules as it's considered sharing private messages without consent.

Longknife - Harshlands · April 2013

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

Hey Longknife just wanted to clarify that posting a specific ticket is not allowed per forum rules as it's considered sharing private messages without consent.

Kk figured.

But yeah, people will have to take my word for it. I was specifically told it was ok as long as I'm not officer in more than one.

FaceRolI - Sanctuary · April 2013

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

Kk figured.

But yeah, people will have to take my word for it. I was specifically told it was ok as long as I'm not officer in more than one.

and I was specifically told to make sure that I do not have more then 1 character in any faction that participates in a TW/ week. The fact that PWE is banning for this now when alt factions have been owning land for months already demonstrates that they have no idea what is even happening within their own game.

XSonOfCircex - Sanctuary · April 2013

Given the inconsistency here it would be nice to get either an affirmation that the current TW rules, as posted in official announcements, stand (So that we can then complain about that) or an official statement of new rules.

I'd love to see an alt per fac permissable per faction since that's really not going to be game breaking, as long as the positioning of them isn't set up to inhibit one from being attacked (IE taking tideborn lands on alt fac, taking dreaming cloud, dreamweaver port, and snowdragon heights on main faction).

Regardless of what they decide, I'd like to see consistency and official confirmation of policy since we haven't really heard anything on the subject in a long time.

Xainou - Sanctuary · April 2013

Eh, as I see it, it has always been a grey zone. Technically forbidden but let go as a not so big issue. Then someone thought they could abuse it and went completely overboard, and the GMs ended up enforcing the rule.

XSonOfCircex - Sanctuary · April 2013

The official rules posted 8 months ago are as follows:

Taken from Kantorek's 2010 post:

Hello all,

Here is a clarification of the Territory Wars rules in respect to what will get you banned. Just because the rewards and bidding announcements have changed, does not mean the fight has changed. Nor does this give you free reign on "fake bidding". Please be advised of these rules when participating in combat. Have fun and be safe!

Bidding

Any willing and capable faction can bid on any opposing territory provided they have no affiliations with the current owners. The bids can only be made if the faction has a real intention of attacking and trying to win the territory. All bids must have a legitimate chance to win. This includes factions that are but is not limited to the following:

Training Wars

Practice or Training Wars are not allowed by the branch faction if the Territory is owned by an affiliated faction.

Small factions

Factions with too few members should not bid.

Factions with a low level average should not bid.

Alliances

Alliances are allowed in Territory Wars provided they are not bidding on each other others Territories.

Alliances cannot fund directly or indirectly another faction to protect one of its own territories or that of their alliance members.

All factions must have independent leadership

Any collaboration before, during, or after a Territory War that tries to circumvent the fair play of the system is prohibited.

No faction may lose on purpose or decide the victor through non in game mechanics.

Note that this rule includes a failure to appear for a War that the Faction has bid on. This rule also applies to failures to appear to defend a territory. However, in the case where a Faction must defend multiple territories simultaneously, the Faction may choose which Territory to defend. Whenever attacked, a Faction must choose to defend at least one Territory.

Leaders may not have alternate factions or be members of competing factions

Players in any kind of leadership capacity (Leader, Director, Marshall, or Executor) of a faction that participates in Territory Wars cannot have alternate factions that participate in Territory Wars on the same server. If you are in a leadership position of a faction, you cannot be a member of another faction that participates in Territory Wars on the same server.

Factions that cannot abide by these rules or that of fair play should not bid as anything that constitutes fake bidding will have severe repercussions. Any user caught withholding information about possible Territory War violations will be punished along with the perpetrators. All bids will be thoroughly screened and researched by the GMs. Any behavior determined to be suspicious will require additional research were temporary bans maybe issued. Upon confirmation of the crime the faction leaders as well as the members involved will be banned at the discretion of the GM.

Update
For further clarification, we are by no means discouraging factions from participating in TW. The fact of the matter is, there will be factions that try to cheat the system. Honestly, most of the players who are being so nit picky about the rules, are the ones who intend to abuse them. If you think your faction has a legitimate chance to win the TW, then by all means go for it.

We judge all TW wars on a case by case basis. Not just a concrete "If faction X has Y players, and they are attacking faction Z." Obviously a faction with less than 20 or so members with a low level average of say 30 is not going to win versus a big guild. But now what if that faction only has 20 members strong, but they're all level 60+ and are attacking a faction that has to defend a lot of territories. Maybe they think they can sneak in a win in against a weakly defended territory? We look at the data on our end and make the judgment call. This is where it becomes difficult for us to give hard numbers. The intention to win the war must always be there. It all comes to not having a built in system within the game to stop and discourage TW wars but rather monitored on the human side. As far as I know, we are the only version that polices these types of fake bids and we pride ourselves for not turning a blind eye to it.

Other related clarification (originally stated on 10-05-2010)

A: I guess I'll take this one. I feel that this was taken a bit out of proportion. This was not an attack on players asking for clarification on the rules. This was an attack on anyone or any faction that had the intention on getting the specifics of "how many members does a faction need" or "what is the average level of a faction" to use as their defense when their faction or faction leader gets banned for fake bids. (You know who you are).

For example, it's a lot like if there was a company picnic in the park, but you were told specifically that there is to be no alcohol on the premises. If I went up to the organizer of the event and asked "What exactly are boundaries of the picnic premise? Is being across the street considered being on the park premises?" What do you think I would be trying to get away with?

For this reason, we are unable to give these specifics and exactly why we look at TW bans and complaints on a case by case basis. There is no way we can set down a specific set of rules regarding this part of the TW bidding process.

I apologize to everyone if you felt that this was a direct attack on all players in general. But it simply was not meant to be that way. Hopefully this clears everything up.

However, I'm not sure about other servers, but on sanctuary the very next TW season, which started very soon after that, Endy, LG, Vindi, Regi, and probably Enely (and probably others who I forget) declared on alt factions and had officers with members in both. There were further officers in main factions who had alts in other TW factions, including but not limited to Kakumau, Enelysion, and Endeavour at some point or another. To the best of my knowledge, no one was punished for any of this, even when BabyLG and EnelyJR had land at the end of the TW season.

Since FaceRoll was told something different, can we please get some official statement?

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands · April 2013

Seems many people got told something different by people working for PWI.

Longknife - Harshlands · April 2013

XSonOfCircex - Sanctuary wrote: »

To the best of my knowledge, no one was punished for any of this, even when BabyLG and EnelyJR had land at the end of the TW season.

CrimsonJr is PWI's original alt guild, you buncha posers. b:cool

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands · April 2013

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

CrimsonJr is PWI's original alt guild, you buncha posers. b:cool

The difference is CrimsonJr is not a alt guild of a main guild, it's a guild of alts from all factions on the server.

Longknife - Harshlands · April 2013

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

The difference is CrimsonJr is not a alt guild of a main guild, it's a guild of alts from all factions on the server.

Because CJr knows this game is all about fun, and everyone's welcome to come have fun. b:cute

Is pretty fun logging in and having convos like:

"K so you'll be squaded with SuperBob."
"Who the hell is SuperBob? Who's alt is that?"
"I haven't the slightest ****ing idea. But you're squaded with SuperBob."
"Lolkk"

Or

"Hey level 22, do you know how to scout?"
"Of course I do, I do it for my main faction on Dreamweaver all the time. Want me to?"
"Sure, awesome. Thanks."
"Btw can someone carry me to my scout perch? I can't fly."

Or

"Who the hell are you DCupsOfJustice? I have no clue who you are."
"I'm from Raging Tide. I have no clue who you are either, I'm just here cause this is the only TWing faction that'd take me."
"Seems legit."

geestring · April 2013

well i think this game has just turned to anal juice......people need to relax more and should just rage a little to keep the pvp tension but not resort to all this **** thats happening on HLf:strive

Crixxix - Raging Tide · April 2013

Hey oVenus, just wanna say that posting tickets is not a private message. It's a customer service, and deserves transparency. Besides, what's privacy? If you want privacy, don't use the internet... plain and simple. Nothing is private once it turns to 0's and 1's. f:laugh

Of course, there's a simple loop hole to this. We can just make an unofficial PWI forum site for everyone, every server, and create our own rules. Such as this, we can post tickets, and find out what PWI is REALLY saying to everyone.

The only reason that it isn't allowed, and I'm sure many of us could agree, is so PWI can't get caught for handing us a line of ****. Lo and behold, I have a legitimate point behind all of this. This is a PRIME example of a rule that needs to be re-examined. Looking forward to v4liance hopping on here and reviewing these comments.

Bottom line Venus, there's a saying. If your not proud of someone, and don't want people to find out, don't do it in the first place. People talk, always have, and always will.

Have a nice day. b:cute

Decus - Dreamweaver · April 2013

Crixxix - Raging Tide wrote: »

Of course, there's a simple loop hole to this. We can just make an unofficial PWI forum site for everyone, every server, and create our own rules. Such as this, we can post tickets, and find out what PWI is REALLY saying to everyone.

That's already been done.

Crixxix - Raging Tide · April 2013

Mind sharing the URL? If you feel more comfortable, you can send it to me in a PM. b:pleased

ovenusarmanio · April 2013

Crixxix - Raging Tide wrote: »

Hey oVenus, just wanna say that posting tickets is not a private message. It's a customer service, and deserves transparency. Besides, what's privacy? If you want privacy, don't use the internet... plain and simple. Nothing is private once it turns to 0's and 1's. f:laugh

Of course, there's a simple loop hole to this. We can just make an unofficial PWI forum site for everyone, every server, and create our own rules. Such as this, we can post tickets, and find out what PWI is REALLY saying to everyone.

The only reason that it isn't allowed, and I'm sure many of us could agree, is so PWI can't get caught for handing us a line of ****. Lo and behold, I have a legitimate point behind all of this. This is a PRIME example of a rule that needs to be re-examined. Looking forward to v4liance hopping on here and reviewing these comments.

Bottom line Venus, there's a saying. If your not proud of someone, and don't want people to find out, don't do it in the first place. People talk, always have, and always will.

Have a nice day. b:cute

I am not an employee of this company, and do not make the rules. I don't even get paid for my time. I'm just saying what's in the rules.

8. No posting of personal conversations or personal information (from IMs or PMs).
Topics such as these are considered breaches of privacy. Please refrain from posting such items including, but not limited to, email exchanges with GMs, admins, moderators, PWE Customer Service or personal communications with other members.

Reliea - Sanctuary · April 2013

XSonOfCircex - Sanctuary wrote: »

The fact of the matter is tickets are currently flying and I'm just glad I don't have any of my alts in Regified right now. Despite the fact that all through the last TW season a certain alt faction held a lot of land, including Etherblade, without being ticketed apparently has no bearing on the way this whole thing functions.

While I think the fact that one faction (or a group within said faction) decided it should attack 6 lands on alt facs (not to mention other closely linked factions that I'm not sure whether they're officially alt facs or not) should maybe be reprimanded, the fact that people are being punished for 1 alt fac, something that most TW facs have had for the last several seasons, is a little excessive, especially when there was no warning that this was suddenly going to be enforced.

That faction, like several factions, only has 1 official alt faction. Anyone can make/name a faction, and anyone with enough coins can bid. It's irrational, but understandable, to assume that all factions with similar names are linked. Even if all those factions were linked, the previous season majority alt faction territory holder made a much larger impact over all than 1-2 weeks of this new season, and yet was left alone.

This rule is irrational because:
It limits TW faction officers unfairly, and since PWI players are pretty much left to themselves to be their own police it causes a lot of purely spiteful reporting.

If PW wants to enforce rules properly, don't depend on player-based police. Independent investigation is the only way to make sure rules are enforced fairly.

Either all factions are held to the same rules and standards, or change rules that can't be fairly enforced.

I would like to see the rule changed, but even if it isn't, at least people are more aware of the issue now and can change their behaviour accordingly.

Crixxix - Raging Tide · April 2013

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

I am not an employee of this company, and do not make the rules. I don't even get paid for my time. I'm just saying what's in the rules.

No doubt, but I'm sure that as the decent person you are, you can agree with my point. If PWI is handing someone a line of BS, the entire community deserves to know. Sure, they could ban me (Or anyone for that matter) from forums, or the game entirely for exposing them, but at what point do you go above and beyond to look out for everyone's well being?

Not saying PWI has ever done anything so horrible as to warrant this, but they definitely need to start heading in a different direction. I think the last update was a step in the RIGHT direction, with adding the Jolly Old Jones dailies. Keeping new players is the key right now, and hope PWI keeps following that idea.

Back on topic, I think this rule needs to be reviewed by v4liance, possibly allowing an alt faction to only attack if the main faction(s) aren't attacking that week. Also, some sort of rule would need to be implemented about safeguarding the other territories that are owned by either faction. I don't see it as an issue, if the right precautions are taken.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands · April 2013

Did anyone tried to bring v4 attention to that thread?

ovenusarmanio · April 2013

@Crixxix

I disagree that the ticket thing is bs, but I dont' really want to discuss it in this thread. If you would like to pm me about it though, I'd be happy to discuss it with you.

@Bella

I have.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands · April 2013

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

@Crixxix

I disagree that the ticket thing is bs, but I dont' really want to discuss it in this thread. If you would like to pm me about it though, I'd be happy to discuss it with you.

@Bella

I have.

Thank you.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · April 2013

Crixxix - Raging Tide wrote: »

Of course, there's a simple loop hole to this. We can just make an unofficial PWI forum site for everyone, every server, and create our own rules. Such as this, we can post tickets, and find out what PWI is REALLY saying to everyone.

mr muffin did that b:chuckle forgot the forum name tho, always use to call pple muffin. Altho i have to say a shroud of mystery is always more exciting hence this forum

v4liance · April 2013

Hey everyone,

I'm sorry for any confusion that's occurred. First off, the rules posted on the forum here are the official rules.

The pertinent section is this:

Leaders may not have alternate factions or be members of competing factions

Players in any kind of leadership capacity (Leader, Director, Marshall, or Executor) of a faction that participates in Territory Wars cannot have alternate factions that participate in Territory Wars on the same server. If you are in a leadership position of a faction, you cannot be a member of another faction that participates in Territory Wars on the same server.

There are two primary frustrations that I see here, and I'd like to talk about them.

1) This rule is not perceived as fair.
2) The way we are enforcing this rule is not perceived as fair.

Regarding the first concern:

It's true that not every Leader of a TW Faction who has an alt char in another TW Faction is going to be gaming the system. And those specific players are affected negatively by this rule, as it is intended to prevent gaming the TW system with fake bidding, inappropriate Faction collaboration, etc.

I am sorry that those honest players are negatively affected, but this rule is necessary to punish players who are violating the spirit of Territory Wars.

Regarding the second concern:

From what I understand, this rule has often been violated in the past, and many players are now being punished for what they believed was allowed, or at least not enforced. Although that may be the case, this rule does exist, and it can and will be enforced.

It's also true that we rely on our players to inform us when others are violating the rules. Our support team does their best to stay on top of all kinds of violations and player concerns, but specific complaints are the most readily acted upon.

...

Please also know that we do review rules like this on a regular basis, and we rely on your feedback to know how they're received and how effective they are.

- Val

Is it true?

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