Sage Ironheart Blessing

Eclod - Raging Tide · April 2013

So, sage IH says: "Bless the target to restore 1200 HP plus 35% of your base magic attack over 15 seconds.

Sage version restores an additional 10% HP."

What is this 10% additional HP? Is is 10% of the target's HP? 10% of base magic? 10% of 1200?

Confused since demon is also 35% and sage doesn't show like sage chromatic healing beam (20+5meter range.)

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · April 2013

I'll bump this for you Eclod since I've asked before.

Unfortunately the answer I got back then was "Read the skill description. It works exactly as it says." The issue of course is interpretting what the skill description says as you pointed out.

NeonZephyr - Archosaur · April 2013

really interesting question!
i would take a faint guess at it being 1200+35% base magic attack = X and then 10% of X but i could be wrong >.<

Hannsel - Dreamweaver · April 2013

it should be testable as I'm curious myself. try the following:

1)get a target w/decent hp i.e. 10k or higher

2)ask a veno to use soul degeneration on him

3)unequip your weapon to remove variation and cast sage IH

4)record the healed amount

5)check wether its 1.10*(1200 +35%) OR (1200+45%)

Eclod - Raging Tide · April 2013

Oh, thanks for the tip Hannsel. I'll try that later.

Is base magic attack just the "magic attack?"

So, without weapon magic attack is 2362-2362, so 35% would be 826.7, so it would heal approx 2027 hp? (827 +1200)

at 45% would be 1062.9 + 1200 approx 2263?

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · April 2013

Hannsel - Dreamweaver wrote: »

it should be testable as I'm curious myself. try the following:

1)get a target w/decent hp i.e. 10k or higher

2)ask a veno to use soul degeneration on him

3)unequip your weapon to remove variation and cast sage IH

4)record the healed amount

5)check wether its 1.10*(1200 +35%) OR (1200+45%)

Eventually I'll stop being lazy and might do this but I see three ways to look at "an additional 10%".

I can see this meaning three things.

(1200hp + (BMA x .35)) x 1.1 >>> This would be 10% of everything healed.
(1200hp x 1.1) + 35% >>> This would be 1200 hp + 10%=1320 hp plus 35% BMA
1200 hp + 45% >>> This would be an additional 10% of BMA, not of the equation.

Unfortunately without a weapon they'd all be pretty close but someone should try to figure it out.

Hannsel - Dreamweaver · April 2013

Eclod - Raging Tide wrote: »

Oh, thanks for the tip Hannsel. I'll try that later.

Is base magic attack just the "magic attack?"

So, without weapon magic attack is 2362-2362, so 35% would be 826.7, so it would heal approx 2027 hp? (827 +1200)

at 45% would be 1062.9 + 1200 approx 2263?

yw b:pleased
share the results after u're done

Hannsel - Dreamweaver · April 2013

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Eventually I'll stop being lazy and might do this but I see three ways to look at "an additional 10%".

I can see this meaning three things.

(1200hp + (BMA x .35)) x 1.1 >>> This would be 10% of everything healed.
(1200hp x 1.1) + 35% >>> This would be 1200 hp + 10%=1320 hp plus 35% BMA
1200 hp + 45% >>> This would be an additional 10% of BMA, not of the equation.

Unfortunately without a weapon they'd all be pretty close but someone should try to figure it out.

they will be close but still noticable. using http://pwcalc.com/d8d2755c4dbf2005 we can see that in case

1) (1200+0.35x1950)x1.1 gives 2070.75 ~ 2071 hp

2) (1200x1.1) + 0.35x1950 gives 2002.5 ~2003 hp

3) (1200 +.45x1950) gives 2077.5 ~ 2078 hp

its pretty close as you said so use veno debuff to block regeneration to obtain the exact solution.

PhantomThief - Archosaur · April 2013

Honestly i've just always thought "it heals harder than demon" and left it at that. PWI has horrible confusing skill tags and im too lazy to try to decode them , lol

SxeChik - Archosaur · April 2013

I have always assumed that "additional 10%" comes from our magic attack b:surrender

PhantomThief - Archosaur wrote: »

PWI has horrible confusing skill tags and im too lazy to try to decode them , lol

So true. This example is off topic but in Ultraviolet Dance, you actually GAIN 10% HP instead of losing it, and the skill heals up that 10% itself for you as well (meaning you don't see the HP gap like you do after getting barb's hp buff)

Bad job in translating/interpreting skill descriptions, PWI b:angry

SMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver · April 2013

SxeChik - Archosaur wrote: »

I have always assumed that "additional 10%" comes from our magic attack b:surrender

So true. This example is off topic but in Ultraviolet Dance, you actually GAIN 10% HP instead of losing it, and the skill heals up that 10% itself for you as well (meaning you don't see the HP gap like you do after getting barb's hp buff)

Bad job in translating/interpreting skill descriptions, PWI b:angry

With barb buff you gain 10% MAX HP there is no heal aspect to it hence why you get the HP gap. With Unltraviolet Dance the effect gives you back 10% HP it does not increase your max HP by 10%. There is however a second part to the skill that does give you a minor HP increase depending on your level of around 3%. Therefore the 10% "heal" from casting the skill is greater than the ~3% max increase so you will not see the HP gap that you do from a barbs buff.

Eclod - Raging Tide · April 2013

tried once, rly quickly, it healed 2,200

it's closer than 2,027.

So, I'm gonna say it's 45% xD

SxeChik - Archosaur · April 2013

SMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver wrote: »

With barb buff you gain 10% MAX HP there is no heal aspect to it hence why you get the HP gap. With Unltraviolet Dance the effect gives you back 10% HP it does not increase your max HP by 10%. There is however a second part to the skill that does give you a minor HP increase depending on your level of around 3%. Therefore the 10% "heal" from casting the skill is greater than the ~3% max increase so you will not see the HP gap that you do from a barbs buff.

Ahhhh now it makes much more sense. Ty smash b:cute

Saeidon - Heavens Tear · April 2013

The difference beceyes larger at higher levels of weapon.
Say you're in r9s3 with 25k average MAtk.
(1200 + .35*25000)x1.1=11755
1200+.45*25000=12450
(while demon heals =9950)

This is one of the reasons I do not believe sages to be better at healing than demon. 9950 is already massive, and enough to keep anyone alive in any pve situation from just occasional healing. demon makes up for that in other ways.
The difference is reasonably large as the numbers go, but insignificant in a real world pve or pvp situation.

Eclod - Raging Tide · April 2013

Not sure how this turned into "demons heal just as well as sages."

I was just asking what the 10% was. b:sweat

tweakz · April 2013

Saeidon - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The difference beceyes larger at higher levels of weapon.
Say you're in r9s3 with 25k average MAtk.
(1200 + .35*25000)x1.1=11755
1200+.45*25000=12450
(while demon heals =9950)

This is one of the reasons I do not believe sages to be better at healing than demon. 9950 is already massive, and enough to keep anyone alive in any pve situation from just occasional healing. demon makes up for that in other ways.
The difference is reasonably large as the numbers go, but insignificant in a real world pve or pvp situation.

9950 spread out over 15s isn't that massive especially considering the commonality of gears sharded with citrines. The minimum difference of 1805 seems pretty massive especially considering this is a stack-able heal.

I'm curious about how demon makes up for this in other ways. -Could you elaborate? If your response is SoR; then you may want to consider a sage cleric can cast vanguard spirit for the same defense boost, and combine it with their IH in comparable time at a much lower MP cost. The boost is good for 10s meaning it's good for ~3 IHs. IH and VoS is a little more dynamic and practical than Demon SoR as well since IH channels much faster, and VS buffs w/o a heal.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · April 2013

tweakz wrote: »

I'm curious about how demon makes up for this in other ways.

I'm not sure we do in other ways of healing. I think part of the culti decision is do we need more heals or do we need more ways to support, seal, or dd? If I have a 40k hp barb as a demon cleric I still don't find myself lacking heals, and if I have a 7k hp sin is the difference of 20k heals vs 21.5k heals (its not quite 10% if its based on magic attack or doesn't include the +1200 hp) going to make a difference.

8-10% more heals can be made up in statting more magic, channeling slightly faster, or +2-3 refines.

The other issue is... If the tank has paint, who needs a cleric? Its not he same for everyone but the best part about a cleric is starting a mob with full hp. 90-95% of the actualy hp replacement in a run on my barb, bm, sin, or seeker is done by paint. I want my cleric to seal mobs, and the mp heals are great, and then the occasional IH.

In most squads cleric's are there for buffs, bb, and to supplement heals especially for classes that don't get bp or for players who don't have refines decent enough for bp to cover it. In those cases the hp amount is normall 4-8k and both sage and demon have it covered.

Sage Ironheart Blessing

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